paying opening bands?

[BDR]

NOT paying your opening band is a real ASSHOLE thing to do. Thats your "rockstar syndrome" right there.

Don't want to open for a band for no money? Don't open. It's your choice. As I said, we've opened our share of shows and the "pay" received was explained in my previous post. If the opportunity arises again for us to open for someone in a situation where it will benefit us, we'll do it again ... for no money.

I think the whole "paying your dues" thing is a way to keep some bands DOWN and the bands that have been around UP. Its all rigged

... actually, that attitude will keep you down. No one owes anyone jack $hit in this biz. Either you want to take advantage of opportunities to be heard or you don't. Don't pay your dues if you don't want to ... it impacts the rest of the gigging world ZERO.

... the bands that have been around ...

The way to become one of the bands that have "been around" is to play when you get the opportunities to play, regardless of whether there is a paycheck involved. The pay checks will come with patience, belief in your product and hard work.

r:>)

[VENTGtr]

Guess it depends on the situation and the place and who ask and why. I've opened
from time-to-time and don't think I've ever been paid (Clearly, need new management.).

If you're playing 10-12 tunes and the crowd is there to see a headliner but it helps you
get a show there, you can look at it as an investment. If you get paid, all the better.

Guess it should be stated up-front so you know whether or not it's "worth" taking the
show in your view. I'd judge no one on their decision.

I DO believe there's validity to expecting paid in a scenario where the band asks you to
open, especially when it's because they don't have enough material. THEN, it's a
co-show and you're doing as much for them as they are for you, at least generally.

Think it also needs pointed out that just because you get paid doesn't mean you like/love, etc. doing this any less than someone who is willing to play for free. To the contrary, I've found that, more often than not, people who approach this as a business of sorts expect more of themselves than those who don't. Not saying that's always the case, but in general.

I certainly want to get paid for doing it. I'll do benefits, etc. and travel a long way for and play free, however, I/we've all put a lot of time and money into this and if anyone complains that they get paid, they're nuts. THIS from a socialist!

You can look at this as being a temporary employee or contracted employment, but it IS
a job and certainly is seen as such for the places where we play. Doesn't mean you
can't love it just as much.

[SpellboundByMetal]

Rob- thanks for your always super professional advice.
As i said before, i dont play for money, but there are alot of bands out there that deserve something!!! Money isnt everything. I know that. Alot of time the opening bands are better than the headlining bands. I guess this is a dumb point to debate. The "rockstars" dont like giving their pennies away. THATS COOL. Theres no law that says they have to, and youre right, theres no law that says a band has to open for them.
Some people wont play a show unless theres $$$ involved. Thats sad too. Again, its a dumb point to argue, so i guess im done with it. High-five to Rob, haha.

[ToonaRockGuy]

I agree with Rob on this one. I've been on both sides, being the headliner with an opener, and being an opener with a headliner. Headliners are typically bands that have paid their dues at the venue, openers are trying to get their feet wet.

Sorry, Keith, but in my book, openers don't get paid. Hell, Scream drove from Mt. Union (and in my case, Altoona) to Lancaster over the summer to open at The Village. None of us were thrilled about the drive, but for the chance to play The Village and possibly get our foot in the door, we bit the bullet and travelled. We didn't get paid, we knew we weren't getting paid, and we still did it. We may be the "rockstars" to you, but we donate our time to good benefits and open shows for free if we can get our foot in.

[songsmith]

I've dropped a lot of bankroll over the years, traveling to places like Philly and Pittsburgh to play for free (and even got boned on PA a few times). I have played for free, currently play for free, and will likely always play for free. If I did this for the freaking money, I'd have quit many years ago. Money just can't be an issue for me, hell, I spent years putting all the band money into a giant PA that sat idle in a basement just a couple years later. Regrets? Hell, no! If you had to buy tickets to the sh*t I've seen, you'd pay a lot more than I have.
These money arguments make me sick. They usually come from people who say things like,"... I've been in the music scene for 2 years..." which is laughable. It's like a 4-year-old saying, "...hey, I've been walking for 2 years, I know what I'm doing." Insert your comment about me being an irrelevent old man here, then pound sand, because I was doing that 2 decades ago, to people who turned out to be my mentors.
Does this mean you allow business people to stick you for pay? No, of course not, but money shouldn't be your motivation.
Regarding the opener being better than the headliner, well, you should always try to be better. My own bands generally tried to put on our absolute best show always, especially when we had a big crowd to play for. We also got shown up occasionally, and became fans of those bands. if you open for me, you get full PA and lighting, and if you're killing onstage, I'm not pissed, I'm happy the crowd is having a good time. Hell, the band Siege was supposed to open for us once, until I caught them, realized they were the best local metal band I'd ever seen, and we opened for them.
Also, for the record, when I play solo acoustic gigs, I'm pretty well paid. I don't do many of those because it's boring. I usually do them when I need, y'know, money.-------->JMS

[bassist4life2004]

Opening for a band should be viewed as an opportunity to make money later. If you get your foot in the door then thats great, you will make your money, but at the same time you shouldnt be expecting the headliner to dish out their money to you because they have probably played that venue for free once or twice to get where they are. If you are doing it just for the money in this area, im heartbroken to inform you that you will probably be living in a cardboard box in the altoona projects.

Now, if you are going somewhere far away and you ask another band to open for you, thats a different story. You should compensate them to some degree for their gas. If you dont at least do that, you are going to find out that you are going to make more enemies than friends. I know for damn sure that i wouldnt want to follow a band the whole way to St. Marys to just open and leave with no gas money.

[BDR]

Rob- thanks for your always super professional advice.

No problem ... and as always, no one needs to take my "super professional advice" ... you're welcome to, but it's only for your consideration. What works for some doesn't always work for everyone.

For the record, when I spew business philosophy, it's never with the intent of steering someone in a bad direction.

r:>)

[MeYatch]

"paying your dues" isn't the same thing as being repeatedly shit upon for no reason.

If there's no benefit to playing a show as an opener, don't play it. Whatever that benefit is can be analyzed on a case by case basis.

here's a couple random examples.

Echo Chamber opens for Bad Daze at City Limits
cost to echo chamber: essentially nothing
benefits to echo chamber: potentially quite large

I wouldn't feel the need to ask for money in the slightest, if I were Bad Daze, I wouldn't feel the need to volunteer any.


Bad Daze opens for Echo Chamber at Rumors in St Mary's
cost to Bad Daze: well, I guess not that much, but its still a haul, and a PITA
benefits to Bad Daze: dubious...

I would offer them money, if I were them I probably wouldn't play it without money (if I were them I probably wouldn't do it at all, because I'm sure they'd have better things to do, but that's beside the point)

Echo Chamber and Bad Daze play a split show somewhere where we are both somewhat known and could both potentially benefit from playing with each other

I suppose we'd split it 50/50
(and then charge bad daze huge amounts of money for use of our PA, because we are assholes like that)

(just kidding)

[bassist4life2004]

mitch, you left out the fact that if they use our PA, we get the benefit of making ourselves look better by playing with those neat little knobs that we know nothing about on the mixing board all night... HAHA, JK

[Jones]

An opening band is a band none the less. You play, you deserve to get paid.
Theres no case by case thing. Its only right to pay a band for performing. Doesnt matter how small they are. Atleast thats how i feel. Some of the people here would have a shitfit if they didnt get paid. Theres times we didnt get paid. Even times were were told "youll get paid" and we didnt. Oh well.

What happend to it not being about the money?

[BDR]

OK, let's suppose the members of both bad daZe and Echo Chamber all became unemployed and homeless and old sKool and I started a street minstrel thing where he leaves his guitar case open on the sidewalk to accept donations while I sing folk songs to the passersby, then Ken from Echo Chamber comes along and starts horning in on our action when there are clearly other street corners he could set up shop.

Regardless, Ken starts playing harmony riffs to compliment old sKool's fretwork and he starts stomping his foot on a nearby sewer grate to add percussion. Later, Mitch and Future Bobby happen by, each toting upright basses they stole from a local music shop (they were going to pawn them for crack money — that's where they were headed when they met up with the "jam"). Soon, everyone's jamming out and people by the truck load begin dumping cash into old sKool's case.

The question: Who is the opener and who is the headliner? Should the money be split or since old sKool and myself were there with the idea first, should we just hit them over the head, grab the cash and run?

See, this gets far too complicated ...

r:>)

[MeYatch]

I can only assume that in that situation we'd all be man enough to take the cash, buy one huge crack rock and share.

[VENTGtr]

Ya, and if the rumours I've been spreading are true,
Ken does love his crack-pipe. Not as much as Tim, but still...

[byndrsn]

BYNDRSN- yeah I play for the love of music. im not the ONLY one in the bands im in. Making something sure helps! For condemned, my bass player drove from frederick,md. to play here. He deserves gas money. I think if a band plays they should get paid!! REGARDLESS.
NOT paying your opening band is a real ASSHOLE thing to do. Thats your "rockstar syndrome" right there.

our argument was about paying bands double on a holiday, not opening bands getting paid.
I think the whole "paying your dues" thing is a way to keep some bands DOWN and the bands that have been around UP. Its all rigged

You do know that I was just busting your chops, right??

[MeYatch]

Ya, and if the rumours I've been spreading are true,
Ken does love his crack-pipe. Not as much as Tim, but still...

Be careful spreading rumors about Ken, its hard to compete with real life.

Ken loves, among other things, killing babies; kicking puppies; fucking chickens; watching The Office; changing lanes without a turn signal; being a dick to former (and current) band members; buying clothes; wearing them, and then returning them; stealing from the homeless; not paying taxes; and sleeping with underage girls (if there are no nearby underage boys)

Also, he told me he fucked your mom, thats right, all of your mom's

[SpellboundByMetal]

byndrsn- sure

Meyatch-HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA, NOW THATS FUNNY. Atleast he doesnt stir drinks with his dick for his bandmates. Ive copywrited that move.

[bassist4life2004]

Yes, in fact, my crack pipe is the only think that keeps me goin. Also i tend to agree with mitch, we all take the money and buy one Huge rock. (Then kill rob, oldSkool and future bobby and take the rock back to our cardboard boxes)

[MeYatch]

I was trying to play nice, from the sounds of things, we were outnumbered. I don't want to take the chance of not having any crack at all.

[SpellboundByMetal]

I think a new music genre has been formed. "CRACK-ROCK". Get the most cracked out people to record an album. Could be cool.

[bassist4life2004]

Ya, and if the rumours I've been spreading are true,
Ken does love his crack-pipe. Not as much as Tim, but still...

Be careful spreading rumors about Ken, its hard to compete with real life.

Ken loves, among other things, killing babies; kicking puppies; fucking chickens; watching The Office; changing lanes without a turn signal; being a dick to former (and current) band members; buying clothes; wearing them, and then returning them; stealing from the homeless; not paying taxes; and sleeping with underage girls (if there are no nearby underage boys)

Also, he told me he fucked your mom, thats right, all of your mom's

You hit the nail right on the head with that one. You missed a few tho. I like to shit in peoples beds while they're sleeping in them; shoot man-mustard all over bandmates sisters while they are sleeping; piss in half full milk jugs; go cripple tipping; steal peoples french fries, rub them in my ass, then put them back on the plate while the persons not looking...

[SpellboundByMetal]

Bassist4life- HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA. Youve got some great hobbies. Im jealous.
I may or may not have actually done that last one though.

[bassist4life2004]

You gotta be (as ive been called) a "washed up rockstar wannabe" who "dont know nothin" to roll like i do.

[AtoMikEnRtiA]

steal peoples french fries, rub them in my ass, then put them back on the plate while the persons not looking...

*note to self* never accept this guy's poutine

[SpellboundByMetal]

i wanna be a "washed up rockstar wannabe"!!!!! Teach me , Ken!!!

[VENTGtr]

"steal peoples french fries,"

Freaking psychotic derelict.