THE POLITICAL ARENA!!! Political Gladiators Inside!!

[shredder138]

Does anyone want to talk politics, or is this thread just for bratty junior-high-level tantrums?

i was wondering the same. although - i have been reading bill and jeff's posts and my curiousity on politics has been piqued, and i've been doin my own lil research. so i guess this thread does have some positives lol.

ucj didn't really say thay, right?!

[kayla]

ucj didn't really say thay, right?!

nope. i totally messed up quoting. my bad!!!

[shredder138]

ucj didn't really say thay, right?!

nope. i totally messed up quoting. my bad!!!

[Banned]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-2 ... fraud.html

The FBI is investigating Solyndra LLC for possible accounting fraud and the accuracy of financial representations made to the government, according to an agency official.



Someone call the FBI and tell them Bill already investigated this. Even though the Bush administration turned down the loan, Obama pushed it over the recommendations of his advisers not to. The CEO is a big time campaign donor. Bill says nothing wrong here at all. Only Republicans do wrong in Bill's world.

[Hawk]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-2 ... fraud.html

The FBI is investigating Solyndra LLC for possible accounting fraud and the accuracy of financial representations made to the government, according to an agency official.



Someone call the FBI and tell them Bill already investigated this. Even though the Bush administration turned down the loan, Obama pushed it over the recommendations of his advisers not to. The CEO is a big time campaign donor. Bill says nothing wrong here at all. Only Republicans do wrong in Bill's world.

Asked and answered.

[Hawk]

Does not matter what you say to Bill. His is a good little Nazi, he will lie and twist and alter everything...

Prove it.

I do tend to untwist that which you twist. That's easy to prove. Show me where I lied. Show me where I twisted the truth.

Jeff only managed to point out how thankful I am when I'm corrected.

Now it's your turn.

[Hawk]

Does not matter what you say to Bill. His is a good little Nazi, he will lie and twist and alter everything to protect his fascist government.

He is proud of George Soros who sold out his own Jewish brothers to the Nazis in WWII to be murdered. One Nazi, Bill, proud of Soros, a Jew who helped other Jews get murdered by Nazis.

Hitler could have never come to power without a lot of little people just like Bill. Nazi enablers. All for the good of the state.

More absurdity when you just LOST the argument .

Now tell me specifically please, about the 13 year old Soros ? How he was told by the Nazi's to deliver names to a Rabi and these people were to gather for some unknown (to Soros) reason ? That's about the time his father changed his name to Soros and moved him in with a Christian family to save his life isn't it ?

I have no idea how I would have reacted to the SS if I was 13 year old Jew. I suppose Joe (if he were Jewish) would have just asked for a ride to Auschwitz.

[Hawk]

Does not matter what you say to Bill. His is a good little Nazi, he will lie and twist and alter everything...

Prove it.

I do tend to untwist that which you twist. That's easy to prove. Show me where I lied. Show me where I twisted the truth.

Jeff only managed to point out how thankful I am when I'm corrected.

Now it's your turn.

Up yours Nazi, I'm still waiting for you to prove I was lying. You do not believe my links, I do not believe anything in your links.

What part of, "there is no record of such a vote" don't you uinderstand. Unless you show a source that shows that there is a record, you are a liar.

[Hawk]

Interesting words from a former football coach last night.

Today people (Joe for example) only talk about their "rights" and their "privileges" and their "Personal Freedom".

Forty years ago people talked about their obligations and their responsibilities.

Then he quoted President Harry Truman (I can only paraphrase):
Freedom begins when you have commitment of responsibility to other people.

In other words, Joe is selfish, self centered and I care about everyone. And ALL of our posts in this thread parallel that theme.

I'm happy to be in alignment with people from forty years ago, although at least 1/2 of the people today (my own estimate) are also in alignment with that attitude.

Joe will argue that the government has NO obligation to the poor for instance. My attitude is that the government represents our American Society and it is therefore incumbent upon society and government to protect all of our society.

BTW Always remember that the Nazis were the greatest race discriminators of perhaps all time. Joe is for allowing race discrimination and he doesn't care if it's against Jews, Blacks, Latinos etc.. Good Joe .

[Banned]

BTW Always remember that the Nazis were the greatest race discriminators of perhaps all time. Joe is for allowing race discrimination and he doesn't care if it's against Jews, Blacks, Latinos etc.. Good Joe .

Bill says Ron Paul is a racist because a racist donated to his campaign. George Soros, a Nazi collaborator, contributes to Obama, so Obama must be a Nazi, according to Bill's logic. I hate using those two words together.

[lonewolf]

Interesting words from a former football coach last night.

Today people (Joe for example) only talk about their "rights" and their "privileges" and their "Personal Freedom".

Forty years ago people talked about their obligations and their responsibilities.

Yep, that's right about when the socialist progressives started having their way with the government.

Obligations and responsibilities start at home. Each of us has the obligation and responsibility to obey the laws and pull our own weight. A few (and I mean a hell of a lot fewer than you think) cannot and it becomes either the family's or society's responsibility to fend for those people.

It is not my responsibility to pay for other people's Hoverrounds and mammograms and Viagra and Prozac and geriatric diapers and mortgage interest and oil companies' exploration costs and green companies' failed marketing schemes and farmers' land usage and car manufacturers' solvency and financial corporations' bad judgement and homebuyers' bad judgement and non-government labor's privileges and schools outside of my school district, et cetera, ad nauseum.

If somebody broke the law, fine. Bust their asses for it. You don't think the law goes far enough? Good. They can legislate a better one.

It is not our obligation to tolerate an out of control federal government that is on The Verge of dictatorship. Did I say dictatorship? Why...yes, I did...

For two years, Congress failed in its primary responsibility...that of legislating a budget that authorizes executive branch spending. During those two years, the Obama administration was essentially a dictatorship. They had full reign to dictate the finances of this country without any legal obligation to any requirements set down by our duly elected representatives in Congress.

That is essentially a "benevolent" dictatorship.

[Banned]

Interesting words from a former football coach last night.

Today people (Joe for example) only talk about their "rights" and their "privileges" and their "Personal Freedom".

Forty years ago people talked about their obligations and their responsibilities.

Yep, that's right about when the socialist progressives started having their way with the government.

Obligations and responsibilities start at home. Each of us has the obligation and responsibility to obey the laws and pull our own weight. A few (and I mean a hell of a lot fewer than you think) cannot and it becomes either the family's or society's responsibility to fend for those people.

It is not my responsibility to pay for other people's Hoverrounds and mammograms and Viagra and Prozac and mortgage interest and oil companies' exploration costs and green companies' failed marketing schemes and farmers' land usage and car manufacturers' solvency and financial corporations' bad judgement and homebuyers' bad judgement and non-government labor's privileges and schools outside of my school district, et cetera, ad nauseum.

If somebody broke the law, fine. Bust their asses for it. You don't think the law goes far enough? Good. They can legislate a better one.

It is not our obligation to tolerate an out of control federal government that is on The Verge of dictatorship. Did I say dictatorship? Why...yes, I did...

For two years, Congress failed in its primary responsibility...that of legislating a budget that authorizes executive branch spending. During those two years, the Obama administration was essentially a dictatorship. They had full reign to dictate the finances of this country without any legal obligation to any requirements set down by our duly elected representatives in Congress.

That is essentially a "benevolent" dictatorship.

[Banned]

In other words, Joe is selfish, self centered and I care about everyone. And ALL of our posts in this thread parallel that theme.

Bill has no idea of my personal charitable donations. I believe charity is a personal thing, not to be forced upon you by an authoritarian government. For Bill to say such a thing, without any personal knowledge shows what a low piece of shit he has become defending his fascist government. It has become his new religion. I know he has posted about his family fighting for this country, and he has the right to say such lies, but his ancestors would be so ashamed of his actions. Heil Hawk.

[Hawk]

BTW Always remember that the Nazis were the greatest race discriminators of perhaps all time. Joe is for allowing race discrimination and he doesn't care if it's against Jews, Blacks, Latinos etc.. Good Joe .

Bill says Ron Paul is a racist because a racist donated to his campaign. George Soros, a Nazi collaborator, contributes to Obama, so Obama must be a Nazi, according to Bill's logic. I hate using those two words together.

Show me where I called Ron Paul a racist ...

Although if he supports race discrimination (and he does) perhaps the shoe does fit. Thans Joe.

[Hawk]

In other words, Joe is selfish, self centered and I care about everyone. And ALL of our posts in this thread parallel that theme.

Bill has no idea of my personal charitable donations. I believe charity is a personal thing, not to be forced upon you by an authoritarian government. For Bill to say such a thing, without any personal knowledge shows what a low piece of shit he has become defending his fascist government. It has become his new religion. I know he has posted about his family fighting for this country, and he has the right to say such lies, but his ancestors would be so ashamed of his actions. Heil Hawk.

Joe, you stand for selfishness. Contributions by wonderful people like you do not come close to necessary societal obligations.

There in lies the problem. You judge others by your 'self'. "I give to charity." Joe, does that mean everyone does ? "I am successful." Joe, does that mean everyone can be successful ? Is everyone as good as you ? Are there people who are not as smart as you ? Are there people who have handicaps mentally or physically ? Should they do as well as you ? In the dog eat dog Libertarian world, what to we do with these people ? Do you nievely believe charity will take care of them ? It never did in the history of the world.

For instance the benevolent would want people who can't walk to get governmental help with a Hoveround. I guess they should lay in bed until they die ?

Nazi: Supreme supporters of race discrimination.
Joe: Supported of race discrimination in the private sector - and he wants just about everything privatised.

Nazi: Ban Unions
Joe: would like to ban unions.

Joe's not authoritarian - unless it's related to illegal drugs, it can only be Joe's way. and unions, it can only be Joe's way. and private enterprise, it can only be Joe's way. Health care, it can only be Joe's way. WAIT a minute, I see a pattern here and I'm not done yet. AN AUTHORTARIAN: Someone who doesn't like it Joe's way.

Joe, This is funny right, because we know Joe won't give a straight answer to a very simple question. He avoids them like they were, well, selfishness vs. selflessness.

Is health care access a right or a privilege ?

Perhaps if we cut taxes, baned unions and took away the minimum wage, people would just take their extra money and use it to pay for the poor's health care...


Joe has danced around this question before but essentially he implies if you can't pay, just DIE...

[Hawk]

In other words, Joe is selfish, self centered and I care about everyone. And ALL of our posts in this thread parallel that theme.

Bill has no idea of my personal charitable donations. I believe charity is a personal thing, not to be forced upon you by an authoritarian government. For Bill to say such a thing, without any personal knowledge shows what a low piece of shit he has become defending his fascist government. It has become his new religion. I know he has posted about his family fighting for this country, and he has the right to say such lies, but his ancestors would be so ashamed of his actions. Heil Hawk.

My grandfathers and their brothers fought for Germany in WW I. My uncles for the US in WW II and my dad in Korea at the end of WW II. I think they would appreciate very much I don't want race discrimination Joe. I think they are turning over in their graves at the things you are for.

I believe if they heard you use the Nazi term so loosely with a total disregard to the killing of millions of Jews, and the evil insult that it truly is, my collective ancestors would be quite angry.

[Banned]

I believe if they heard you use the Nazi term so loosely with a total disregard to the killing of millions of Jews, and the evil insult that it truly is, my collective ancestors would be quite angry.

Then why do you support and defend Soros, who collaborated with the Nazis, resulting in the murder of many Jews in Hungary? He is one of the biggest donators to your party. You should reject him. You embrace a Nazi collaborator, you are schizophrenic.

Why do you support a socialist, fascist leader like B. Hussein? Hitler started out as a socialist and became a fascist, just like you and B. Don't get mad at the Nazi term, you are living it. Don't live a lie, embrace your socialism and fascism.

[onegunguitar]

[onegunguitar]

[songsmith]

[It is not my responsibility to pay for other people's Hoverrounds and mammograms and Viagra and Prozac and geriatric diapers and mortgage interest and oil companies' exploration costs and green companies' failed marketing schemes and farmers' land usage and car manufacturers' solvency and financial corporations' bad judgement and homebuyers' bad judgement and non-government labor's privileges and schools outside of my school district, et cetera, ad nauseum.

It is not my responsibility to pay extreme and unearned salaries to those who send American jobs abroad in the name of "capitalism". It is not my responsibility to offer those people low-interest loans and tax-free status because they once employed more people. It is not my responsibility to see to it that a single religion is comfortable with every facet of human life, let alone make sure their ignored Commandments are posted in government buildings. It's not my responsibility to hand over national resources and environment to business, at a loss-level price, to further enrich the rich. It is not my responsibility make sure anyone who wants a submachine gun can have one. It's not my responsibility to be sure rightwing media interests are not subject to constraints like reality. It isn't my responsibility to accept one-sided extremism as "fact,' nor is it my responsibility to abide by such extremism. It is not my responsibility to define the Constitution by conservative terms. It isn't my responsibility to live, work, and marry according to conservative desires. It is not my responsibility to give up my collective-bargaining rights simply because conservatives don't want me to have them, nor any other rights. It's not my responsibility to censor my points to fit rightwing ideology, nor to live by it.
Call me irresponsible.

[songsmith]

Joe's house? Only a nut would put up a sign like those. The rest of us have some class.

[songsmith]

I believe if they heard you use the Nazi term so loosely with a total disregard to the killing of millions of Jews, and the evil insult that it truly is, my collective ancestors would be quite angry.

Then why do you support and defend Soros, who collaborated with the Nazis, resulting in the murder of many Jews in Hungary? He is one of the biggest donators to your party. You should reject him. You embrace a Nazi collaborator, you are schizophrenic.

Why do you support a socialist, fascist leader like B. Hussein? Hitler started out as a socialist and became a fascist, just like you and B. Don't get mad at the Nazi term, you are living it. Don't live a lie, embrace your socialism and fascism.

Three "Nazi's," two "fascists" and a "fascism," a "socialist" and a "socialism," and even (perhaps funniest of all) a "schizophrenic!" All in two short paragraphs. I bet if you played guitar, you'd only know one song.

[Banned]

I bet if you played guitar, you'd only know one song.

Someone who you really admire said that you are the weakest link in any band you have ever been in. But, in your mind, you always set the local standard, right?

[lonewolf]

[It is not my responsibility to pay for other people's Hoverrounds and mammograms and Viagra and Prozac and geriatric diapers and mortgage interest and oil companies' exploration costs and green companies' failed marketing schemes and farmers' land usage and car manufacturers' solvency and financial corporations' bad judgement and homebuyers' bad judgement and non-government labor's privileges and schools outside of my school district, et cetera, ad nauseum.

It is not my responsibility to pay extreme and unearned salaries to those who send American jobs abroad in the name of "capitalism". It is not my responsibility to offer those people low-interest loans and tax-free status because they once employed more people. It is not my responsibility to see to it that a single religion is comfortable with every facet of human life, let alone make sure their ignored Commandments are posted in government buildings. It's not my responsibility to hand over national resources and environment to business, at a loss-level price, to further enrich the rich. It is not my responsibility make sure anyone who wants a submachine gun can have one. It's not my responsibility to be sure rightwing media interests are not subject to constraints like reality. It isn't my responsibility to accept one-sided extremism as "fact,' nor is it my responsibility to abide by such extremism. It is not my responsibility to define the Constitution by conservative terms. It isn't my responsibility to live, work, and marry according to conservative desires. It is not my responsibility to give up my collective-bargaining rights simply because conservatives don't want me to have them, nor any other rights. It's not my responsibility to censor my points to fit rightwing ideology, nor to live by it.
Call me irresponsible.

I pretty much agree with most of this as it applies to government and government revenues. The only exceptions are:

1. Unions for state & local government employees are not protected by the federal government under the National Labor Relations Act or any other federal law. The privileges granted to state & local public sector unions' are dependent upon the individual state laws and constitutions.

2. Public speech is protected by the 1st amendment whether its the mantra from a neocon right-wing media nut or the somewhat long-winded rants of a left-wing populist on a website thread.

3. Its not your (or my) responsibility to define the Constitution in any terms.



Edit:

Actually, a complete rewrite of your post is probably in order, since its not your responsibility to do anything besides obey the law. You can probably just substitute something for "Its not my responsibility".

[RobTheDrummer]

Really, it's all a bunch of bullshit, and none of us have any control over it.