Covers and Originals

[tornandfrayed]

I am seeking opinions on the covers to originals ratio that I am seeing in the local band scene. First, do you guys all write stuff that you feel strongly about? Does it seem that to achieve "success" in the area you have to play a bunch of covers? How many bands cover "Godsmack"? And last, how are ya'll defining your own success.. I am just curious, I have seen (scene) a lot of bands lately and I like them all. There are some bands that I "get" and understand the formula but I am also trying to understand what the feelings are towards original music. Peace!

[bassist_25]

I play covers and make no apologies about it. I also make no apologies about the main reason I play covers and that is the cash. I'm a young 'un who is going to college next fall so wherever I can be profitable about my talents, I'm sure to exploit it. (Hey, this is a capitalistic country; who better to make money on our own talents than us?) I've always considered myself a musician before an artist. (I believe there's a difference) The artistic bone in my body constantly wants to play orginal music, but the logic in my head says that it's not an option right now. BTW, we don't cover any Godsmack. (Thank God for that) Nor Mustang Sally, Brown Eyed Girl, or Taking Care of Business for that matter.

As far as the original music being played right now; I think we have some really excellent orginal bands and some, well......... not so excellent orginal bands. If I were torn between seeing two bands where one is a cover band, and one is an orginal band, I would probaly go see the original band. I'm always searching for new music that excites me, and local original music is just one of those avenues. I can enjoy both types of bands as long as they are excellent at their craft.

Cool topic, btw.

[Ron]

Like Bassist_25, I too would choose an original show over a cover show, but we are definitely in the minority. The majority of "club-goers" want to hear something they are familiar with, especially when they like to go out to dance. It's a sad thing for original bands, but I guess it's just human nature.

[FatVin]

This is one of the things I just don't get about this area, when we travel, like down to Texas, if the song has a danceable beat, they dance, I could be singing in Esparanto, or Latin or Klingon for that matter and if the song has a good beat, people dance, in Texas:

Here, I'll set 3 old familiar favorites, then an original, then another cover (all with danceable beats) and what happens? They dance for 3 songs, take a break during the original and then dance again, I just don't get it. and if one of you lifetime Altoids could give me a rational explanantion I'd really appreciate it, it's like they dance to the lyrics or something. (Note to Ron, I need an emoticon that expresses 'What the f$%k!?)

I think a sound strategy for a new band would be to surround your originals with covers that are reasonably similar, so people get a clue from your covers what your originals are about, then as time goes by you can weed out the covers as you grow a following and your own stuff becomes familiar to your audience.

There are bands that play originals and that's it, take it or leave it and I totally respect that, The Grimm leaps to mind. I think Bob and Kent and company are ballsy as hell to take kind of position and take the lumps that come with it and now they are an established act and they've earned that status. But I'm sure they'll tell ya that it wasn't easy for them in the beginning. But I Understand even they throw a cover in to the set list every now and again.

One of the the things we do is to take a familiar old song and do it our way, if you've heard our "Folsom Prison blues" you know what I'm talkin about. I like the idea of re-interpretaion, I think it's valid form of expression. Unlike most of the rockers on this page a blues band is practically required to play covers, a blues audience anywhere, not just here in toon town, expect that from a blues band, so if there is a new way to play and old song I think that's cool and you can make it work for ya, we just added "Kiss" by Prince, but brother it don't sound nuthin like the record, and people still seem to think it's cool, so far.

also you can choose interesting songs, how many friggin versions of "Sweet Home Alabama" do you need, right?, well it's okay, we play it too, but we jam "Werewolves of London" into the middle of it, so that kind of makes it our own. but there are other songs to play and your choice of what covers to play can say a lot about your band, we were the only band playin Chris Issak tunes, there a for a while, (Others have picked up on that since, which I think is kinda cool) I have yet to hear anybody else in town do a Tom Waits tune, we been playin Jockey Full of Bourbon, for years now, we even play a Norman Nardini song, the point is, we take the time to find something interesting instead just slogging out some ol' weezing version of "Freebird" (not that there's anything wrong with that)

I don't think that it's whether or not to play covers, I think it's how do the covers I play fit in to what I wanna say as an artist, if you think of it that way then the time you spend choosing and rehearsing and playing those cover songs on stage, isn't wasted time. That's my 2 cents

[wake up drumming]

I can remember playing a club in Columbus, GA when I was in Blue Skye Mourning. It was our first time there so we started our show with a couple "popular" cover-tunes to ease into it. We got NO response what-so-ever! I looked out to the crowd and saw people pointing and giggling, finally some half-drunk patron screamed "hey! play your own shit!"
I was blown away! We quickly revised our set and played an all original show and people packed the floor and loved every minute of it. We later learned that cover-bands get laughed off the stage there, people want to hear "your" stuff. The owner later told us that cover bands are looked at as talentless and unoriginal there. (Wow! Never thought I'd hear that from a club owner!)

The same goes for a lot of places (besides pa). You'd be hard pressed to find ANY cover bands in Cali, and even in Ohio, Mich, Ind, we've played all original sets under the advice of our touring partners.

Then you come back home! For the most part it's like the complete opposite. Why? who knows. I wish there was a way to change that aspect of our local and regional music scene!

[songsmith]

When I first started doing originals, we'd "sneak" them in without an intro... just hit it, and if they like it, they like it. I think some folks don't want to admit they don't know the song, so they act like they do. After they've heard it a few times over a few gigs, we'd front-announce that it was original.
As for the Altoids... I think their ambivalence to originals is kind of a blessing. Altoona has been a notorious place to play for almost a century. Audiences are tough here but consistently so. They make you work for it, and that makes you a better musician and entertainer. I feel that may be the reason there are so many good pickers and grinners here, and why so many local bands do well when they hit the road... dues paid around here count just about everywhere else. It sucks sometimes, but when you're chasing nurse-aids at the Old Musician's Home, you'll look back on it as a plus.----->JMS

[DMFJ03]

I mean, what can be said that hasn't been already? In this area, doing cover songs is an evil that can not be done without. We all hate that fact, but what are you gonna do? I mean, the true people who are there to hear your own music always love it - but the girl in the back with too much make-up who wants to get on the dance floor, pretend she has rhythm, and sings "Dancing Queen" in the back of her mind will boo your ass off the stage because she can't shake what her Momma gave her. If you are a strict cover band, then you don't have a worry in the world (Providing you're not play Slipknot to a 80's crowd) because that is what people want. I would like nothing more than to come out and an all nighter with nothing but our own songs, but around here - slim chance of that happening. As far as a orginal to cover ratio, the safe standard is 3-4 Covers, then throw in an original. That is the method I see used alot that usually works.

*Steps down from his soap box*

[mad hatter]

Here's the way I see it, there are two types of musicians...
1. The guy (or girl) who wants to be praised for how well they can play someone else's song for quick recognition.
2. The guy (or girl) who plays and writes music for art's sake, who doesn't really care about getting chicks dancing on the dance floor, but creates for self satisfaction.

There's nothing wrong with either one, there are entertainers and there are artists, to each his own, however, being that my musical passion lies closer to the underground scene, it's pretty depressing that our area is full of venues where people flock to hear "mainstream familiarity." It would be nice to see a little more balance in our local music scene.

Peace,
Jon

[Jim Price]

I think the scene is improving for original music, generally I'm seeing more bands being able to do their own stuff and keep at least some sort of crowd. I think that more bands introducing their own originals - even in the context of a cover set - opens minds and doors for more original music to be heard without scaring people away. No shameless plug intended, but I'd like to think the "Backyard Rocker" plays a role as well; if people keep hearing bands' original songs on the program, they recognize such songs as familiar when they go to see those bands perform.

There's still a lot of room for improvement as far as original music being accepted in this area, but the climate is improving, if only one fan or crowd at a time. Bands and artists, just keep putting those tunes out there, and keep promoting yourselves. And keep nurturing those venues and situations that are receptive to what you are doing.

[bassist_25]

I mean, the true people who are there to hear your own music always love it - but the girl in the back with too much make-up who wants to get on the dance floor, pretend she has rhythm, and sings "Dancing Queen" in the back of her mind will boo your ass off the stage because she can't shake what her Momma gave her.

My father was once playing a gig where someone on the floor yelled "Play something we can dance too"; in which the drummer replied, "Maybe the problem is, you can't dance".

I'm very interested in what clubs are like in other parts of the country. Most of my performing experience is on Blair and Cambria county stages, so I'm curious as to what other places are like. I agree with Mad Hatter about the diversity of bands; it seems that there are not many bands playing a variety of music. That sucks for eclectic people such as myself. I would love to walk into a place and hear a band playing some Indie stuff, or Prog Rock. What I would really like to hear is some Jazz. I'm not talking about some pseudo-Jump Blues bullshit; I mean a straight ahead, authentic Bop combo jamming out Miles Davis and Wynton Marsalis standards. I wonder if there's anything like that in State College.

I also think the style of music has a lot to do with covers vs. orginals. As Vinny said, covers in Blues is a given; I don't think I've ever bought a Blues album, and it didn't have at least one cover on it. Now if you were to play Hardcore music, you are almost expected to play orginals. I don't think anyone would come to your shows if you played Biohazard and Earth Crisis covers all night.

[Chevelle7982]

This may be a no win situation, unfortunately. My band has been known to play many covers, because that is what our area wants. We play about 5 originals a show. We have had very good response. You expand your borders and go somewhere different and play your routine show, and that crowd might want something different. We have had great shows in Mifflin County, went to State College and played at The Rathskeller and everyone booed us because it wasn't all our material. They didn't want to hear a party band. What can you do? We are all in agreement here, or so it seems, is there anything we can do? Maybe all original showcases. If people want to hear us they come, if not they wait til the next week and see the cover bands that usually play! I dunno, just a thought.

[Punkinhead]

We play originals...we will throw in a Slayer cover once in awhile for fun but other than that, nothing but Martyrdom....We can do this because of what we are and who we are, and where we are. First, I teach guitar, so I can play whatever I want out, I'm still making money off my instrument. Everyone else is self sufficient in the band. Also, we don't play the bar scene this much in this area, mostly because our music is so heavy. That's another reason we can play all original, not too many people will know a song by Cannibal Corpse even if we would play it, so why not just do our own, and let them hear our new shit for the first time.

We are spending most of our time playing Pittsburgh, all age shows, and clubs (like the former Laga, and Mr. Roboto Project, etc.) because it's mostly all about how good the music is and not WHAT song it is.

That and that I think if we got asked to play a dance song, we'd respond by playing Corpse's "Fucked with a Knife".....it's very danceable in the metal respect.

[tornandfrayed]

I think this is a good idea Chevelle. The closest thing we have to this is the "Backyard Rocker" and that is a great show, but maybe sometime during the next few months we could come up with a good setting to showcase local original bands. Would that rock or what? What do you guys think? Any ideas on where we could do something like that? I think an all agea show might be a gopod idea, let me know..

[songsmith]

Punkinhead brings up a good point... if you don't consider playing out as your primary income stream, you can play whatever you want. You get your jollies onstage, and the kids still have milk for their cereal. That's just sound financial responsibility. Be who you are, and if you're good, folks will eventually recognize quality. On the other hand, if you're playing as an important source of income, keep the girls dancing, brutha, or you're going to starve. I think it's really important to establish which one of the above you want to be very early on in the band process... like first practice or first business meeting (you do have business meetings, right?). A band needs an identity right away, so members don't stray off in different directions, which is pointless and frustrating.
Excellent post, Punkinhead. And chicks dancing to Cannibal Corpse...there's a mental picture. "...Hello, 911? I think we have a mass epileptic seizure happening on our dance floor right now..."--->JMS

[thedoctor]

I also rather have bands do originals over covers. But we all know the club scene is geared towards covers for financial reasons. I play in a cover band and I am finishing up my first ever full length solo disc that I wrote all the songs and played all the instruments myself (home studios are awesome!). Hopefully should be out for purchase by late summer. I played in a band years ago that had two discs out and thanks to some local radio stations we got enough airplay that we could do our stuff at club shows and people knew our songs well enough they would sing along with our songs. What a great feeling! Unfortunately todays band has to be like a dj in order to get crowds. If the people don't know it they don't react. If you do some research there are ways to get your originals heard enough that you can mix them in nicely with the cover material.

[HurricaneBob]

Bottom line i think with material is cover wise, if someone requests a certain song, play it ! (if you can), no matter how bad you hate it or how many yrs you been choking it out. I always see mentions of certain material being joked at. We will play the hell out of our southern material, and were not just going through the motions. If the fans wanna hear it, give it to them. You want longevity, please your crowd, they will come back. We are living proof. Fat Vin was recently at a sunday show of ours and said "Hey, you guys are turning country" when actually weve been Country, southern ,blues and rock for yrs. Just depends on the situation and the crowd involved. Just the other night there were two 21 yr olds, one with a slipknot shirt requsting SRV....go figure.

As for originals, we get our material requested every night we play, and it feels damn good. When we first wrote "Walking a straight line" we were amazed at how it packed the dance floor every night! Play the hell out of your stuff, move them CD's. Get it heard, but dont forget to please the hands that feed you also!

[tornandfrayed]

I agree! We will give away our EP (Frayed "C-Section")to anyone in the hopes that people will play it and learn the music eventually! We are fortnuate that we have established that we do not need to make much money playing and that the primary purpose is for artisitic endeavors. We are blessed! I hope that the idea of a local band showcase takes off, that would be good! Local band showcase good! Fire Bad! Money Good! BEER GOOD!

[nightcrawler_steve]

I think all of the posts have been very insightful. I think the bottom line with original music is that it requires fans to leave their comfort zone if original music is ever to be truly accepted (most people dont want to be the first on the dance floor type thing).

To foster that end result, a combination of cause/effects would need to occur. 1) Clubs willing to support live music - a potential financial risk for them, but also a major gain if and when an original scene blossoms. Perhaps a once a week "all original night" or a monthly "showcase". 2) Local radio willing to designate airplay to original artists - "Backyard Rocker" for example, and dont forget about college radio and the internet. 3) VARIETY and a good pool of talent is crucial. Give the fans a reason to come out and see local artists/musicians. Im not suggesting metal , country and indie on the same night (though who knows). Rather, varied genres of music fans of all styles can enjoy.

Of course these combinations, or lack thereof, may not work in "Small Town, PA", but in the larger urban/metropolitan areas......why not?

I cut my teeth in the Mid-Atlantic region, more specifically the DC/Baltimore circuit, and have seen this combination work. I have only just recently re-entered the music scene here in the State College area and see no reason whatsoever that this combination could not work on a "smaller scale" here. Perhaps it is starting as Jim Price suggested in his post. Lets all, musicians of all genres, keep putting our originals out there and get the fans out of thier "comfort zone".

[Chevelle7982]

I agree with everyone, but original showcases, meaning concert series would promote the area's original music, maybe it would eventually attract the attention of those who can help us be bread winners all from our own music. I know in my heart that there are alot of original music fans, we just have to make it available. What better way than showing them all varieties of original music with a showcase concert series.

[Punkinhead]

Martyrdom is having one of these in summer. There is some details about our location at that time that have to be worked out, whether its beginning or the end of it. We are looking for bands, hit me up with a pm if you want on. This will be huge.

[Banned]

There is one thing about covers that alot of people forget,they were all once someone's originals,we as musician's know this but I think your average listener can't quite grasp that fact.

[the herald]

cool topic! personally i would love to be playing all originals and having the whole bar dancing and having a good time butlike most of you pointed out the general public wants familiarity i like songsmiths way of just playing the original then introducing it after the song is over then they say Wow!! that was an original?! this seems to work better because psychologically when you say ok people heres an original they say im going to get a beer or take a leak now on the other hand i enjoy playing most covers that we play because we mostly play what moves us i believe that you cant please everyone so at least play stuff that the band really likes the only time this seems to be a problem is if your a top 40 band because now you trap yourself into playing whats popular and most of that stuff sux anyway dont get me wrong its still better than flippin burgers!!!! our band seems to have found a balance we play stuff from the 60s 70s 80s 90s and today and originals!!!! i figure in fourty years worth of music if you cant find something that the public likes and the band likes then your in trouble. bottom line is have fun!! rock on!! support local music!! (original & covers )peace p.s. bushy's got a great point youll never make it as an artist if all you do is paint by numbers!!!

[tornandfrayed]

Bushy does make a great point ( but he can't read so he can't paint by numbers! LOL..Love ya Fag! ) and he backs it up! He also has great taste in music so we don't have much conflict over which covers to do! He also plays a mean skin flute, I mean guitar! And this also goes to show what a great sense of humor guitar players have! And I love the response to this thread! Group Hug!

[ToonaRockGuy]

I love bands that do both covers and originals. I think that a mix is the best way to go, due to the obvious "comfort level" that fans want when they go to see a band.

What really gets me cheezed off, however, is when someone in the music community goes and rips on a band that only plays covers. This topic has come up in past discussions, and I'm not going to re-hash everything here. I've seen bands that do all original music kick serious ass. I've seen cover bands kick serious ass too.

Either way, the bands that play out should be respected just for having the balls to get onstage in the first place, period.

[Chevelle7982]

Maybe a Central Pennsylvania original compilation album would be something to look into. I know that every original artist/band would not be able to fit on one album, but it could be a series. We could all work together to promote it as well as distribute it. I've seen cd's of live beneift performances, why not an actual studio quality recording? Just an idea.