the troops

[Hawk]

If you are not for the current war, then please, aim your attacks against the politicians, NOT the troops !

And start your own thread against the politicians. Thanks.

[bassist_25]

“I want, what they want, and every other guy who came over here and spilled his guts and gave everything he had wants: For our country to love us as much as we love it. That's what I want.” - John Rambo (First Blood II)

Is it cheesy to quote a movie? Perhaps...but it's still one of the most powerful movie lines I've ever heard. The unpopular opinion of the Vietnam War was taken out on our service people when they returned home. I'm not defending every single person who served, because obviously, many service people have made unethical actions. Still, the innocent shouldn't be grouped with the guilty. That's why I think that it's important to let the troops know that we still support them, even if we do not agree with the war. I agree that we need to bring our guys and gals home, but until then, I think that we need to keep reminding them that we have them in our thoughts.

[SpellboundByMetal]

Oh well, both sides have strong opinions. Youre not gonna change my mind, and i dont wanna change yours.
Im gonna support some murderers myself and send some support letters to David Berkowitz the 'son of sam' killer. He was just following orders too.

[ToonaRockGuy]

It's okay to support the war in Iraq. It's okay not to support the war in Iraq. It's okay to not want to be reminded of "supporting the troops" every 5 minutes. It's okay to think that being reminded of such all the time is annoying.

But don't you dare disrespect our military.

Keith, you know I love you, brother. You know that I respect your opinions, and I know you respect mine. But if you are comparing our enlisted military to mass murderers like Berkowitz, then you and I are going to have a serious problem. And I mean a serious one. If you want to discuss this in person, then let me know, and we'll sit down over a soda and talk about it. But I know that I didn't spend my time in the military to be compared to David Fucking Berkowitz.

I don't know what else to say, I'm so pissed right now. PM me if you want to talk, Keith.

[SpellboundByMetal]

I wasnt comparing you to David Berkowitz. Did you go to war and shoot people?
i didnt mean to piss you off with that statement, BUT I cant change what i said, and I dont think im wrong.

To me, its both murder...the military just isnt as selective as MM's are.
I wasnt pointing fingers @ anyone here. Just because some of you here did time in the military doenst make you right or stronger or braver than ANYONE.
Having fresh out of HS kids dying and "fighting" doesnt make me feel free! Its lets me know that the military has no regard for our young children. They are young enough to believe the BS and they wont question orders. to me, its a form of brainwashing. Like a huge Cult with tanks and guns....and if you oppose them, they will invade your country and kill you.

[AllHolLowsEVe]

I think that the common misconception for alot of people is that when you enlist in the service, you are automatically given a gun and told to go shoot people. Thats definitily not the case at all. I, like alot of you on here, served time in the military. My M.O.S. was a musician. U.S. Army band. I signed up for the service cuz I knew college would never work out for me but I wanted to make music professionally. I went to boot camp, and then graduated from the U.S. Military School of Music in Roanoke VA. Truthfully I did time in Germany, Bosnia, and Kosovo. My job in the service was to provide morale support and entertainment for soldiers in all parts of the world. Yes I was called upon to lay down my instrument and provide security but that certainly doesnt make me or alot of our men and women murderers. I have never killed anyone and I hope to God that it stays that way. Someone said in an earlier post that it is shameful that some members of our armed forces have made unethical decisions and brought bad light to the men and women who wear the uniform with honor. The military provides many different jobs just as the civilian world does. I am sure that everyone on here even those that criticize the service know someone who has served or is currently serving. Alot of these people have families, little kids, husbands, wives who they dont want to be apart from anymore than you want this war. But its their job. They have the right to provide for their families and loved ones the way anyone does. And if that is the only way they can do it then all the respect in the world. Basically the point of this post was to explain that just because someone signs up for the service does not mean they do it with the intentions to kill anyone, and just understand that regardless of your views and opinions towards those wayward soldiers who have made a poor decision our support and love is all they have to get up in the morning and do what they have to do to get home once again.

[SpellboundByMetal]

Of course there are other jobs in the Military besides shooting people.

I would hope that everyone knows that. An idiot old friend of mine became a meteorologist in the Navy....WTF?!?!!
My cousin works on jets in the airforce.
My step brother is in the army and he is a drill sargent.

Those are jobs that dont require murder. I know that not everyone is on the frontlines. My problem isnt so much the people carrying out the orders, but the heartless pricks giving the orders.

We invaded another country and are killing its citizens in crazy numbers. If someone's military did that here, im sure we'd fight back too!!!!!! Who the fuck gave the US the power to police the world??? We just dont want anyone to have what we have. We want to be the biggest baddest bitch in the yard, and we wont let anyone question that. No wonder everyone hates the US. There is NO ONE that can threaten our way of life. Our freedom isnt threatened. It always was fine and will remain that way until OUR OWN government decides to start taking more of our freedoms away.

[AllHolLowsEVe]

Actually I do happen to agree with two points that you did make. The first being that its the people giving the orders that can be the problem. I got out as an E4 (specialist) which is a lower ranking soldier. So I can speak from experience when I say that I have been shit on and lied to by numerous officers. And as much as I would have liked to speak out in protest , the nature of the armed forces doesnt allow for that type of behavior. It's frusterating speaking to friends of mine that are still in who have been in Iraq and they tell me stories of how they are out on the front lines in 110 degree heat while the officers sit in the air conditioning doing nothing.
The second point that you made that I do agree with is that we were free before this war even happened. I was still in high school when Clinton left office but I can still clearly remember times were much better and the world seemed a much better place whether we knew it or not.
That being said there have been times throughout history when our freedom was not on such solid ground. Though I respect all soldiers past and present it is those that fought in WWII and Korea that I especially hold in high regards. I know everyone on here has been schooled in American History so I wont bother "preaching" about it. But I am sure alot of our parents, aunts, uncles, grandparents, etc. served in WWII. My grandfather served in WWII and though he made it home and is still going strong at 79 many of his friends did not. Whether we have family and friends that served or not they lost people that were very dear to them.
I think that that is the true meaning and spirit of Memorial Day and why they deserve our respect. Having both been in and having people close to me that were veterans I learned at a young age to respect and support those people.

[Merge]

What's great about this country is if you don't like it, you are free to leave.

[SpellboundByMetal]

no one said they didnt like this country.

[DirtySanchez]

We invaded another country and are killing its citizens in crazy numbers. If someone's military did that here, im sure we'd fight back too!!!!!! Who the fuck gave the US the power to police the world??? We just dont want anyone to have what we have. We want to be the biggest baddest bitch in the yard, and we wont let anyone question that. No wonder everyone hates the US. There is NO ONE that can threaten our way of life. Our freedom isnt threatened. It always was fine and will remain that way until OUR OWN government decides to start taking more of our freedoms away.

This is absolutely right keith. But the HARSH REALITY is if you want your freedoms guaranteed you must remain the "biggest baddest bitch in the yard" as you say. People did invade our country and that's why we're in Afghanistan. War is a part of life and has been going on since the beginning of time. Just read a history book. In an ideal world we'd have anarchy and peace, but get serious we can't even see eye to eye on the fucking internet let alone billions of people bartering their services and goods. People must die to maintain some sort of order. If not many more would die, ON OUR SOIL. Yes we police the world, we're bullies, and murderers, and our politicians are dumbasses and cowards who stand behind the lines and expect bravery, but don't think for a second that if we didn't stop fighting, some clown like Kim jong il, or Saddam Hussein, or Numerous others wouldn't step in and take our place at the top. I don't agree with how this war was handled, but I do agree something needed to be done. I think the middle east is a fucking disaster, but if we left now it would get worse. I guess I just don't have your compassion.

[Baceman Spiff]

We invaded another country and are killing its citizens in crazy numbers. If someone's military did that here, im sure we'd fight back too!!!!!! Who the fuck gave the US the power to police the world??? We just dont want anyone to have what we have. We want to be the biggest baddest bitch in the yard, and we wont let anyone question that. No wonder everyone hates the US. There is NO ONE that can threaten our way of life. Our freedom isnt threatened. It always was fine and will remain that way until OUR OWN government decides to start taking more of our freedoms away.

This is absolutely right keith. But the HARSH REALITY is if you want your freedoms guaranteed you must remain the "biggest baddest bitch in the yard" as you say. People did invade our country and that's why we're in Afghanistan. War is a part of life and has been going on since the beginning of time. Just read a history book. In an ideal world we'd have anarchy and peace, but get serious we can't even see eye to eye on the fucking internet let alone billions of people bartering their services and goods. People must die to maintain some sort of order. If not many more would die, ON OUR SOIL. Yes we police the world, we're bullies, and murderers, and our politicians are dumbasses and cowards who stand behind the lines and expect bravery, but don't think for a second that if we didn't stop fighting, some clown like Kim jong il, or Saddam Hussein, or Numerous others wouldn't step in and take our place at the top. I don't agree with how this war was handled, but I do agree something needed to be done. I think the middle east is a fucking disaster, but if we left now it would get worse. I guess I just don't have your compassion.

That was beautiful man. Couldn't of said it better myself.

[SpellboundByMetal]

I disagree.

If we pulled out now, our Gov't would feel that they are admitting fault. So, thats never gonna happen.

Ok, say osama bin laden orchestrated the sept 11th BS. lets go after HIM. why the FUCK did we tack on Saddam to the wanted list again????
we let him off during the first "war".
Do you know how LONG it would take another country to "take our place". im not saying let other countries buttfuck us on our "own soil" , but lets not think we are superior to the world.
it seems to be getting us into more shit, huh?

[DirtySanchez]

I disagree.

If we pulled out now, our Gov't would feel that they are admitting fault. So, thats never gonna happen.

Ok, say osama bin laden orchestrated the sept 11th BS. lets go after HIM. why the FUCK did we tack on Saddam to the wanted list again????
we let him off during the first "war".
Do you know how LONG it would take another country to "take our place". im not saying let other countries buttfuck us on our "own soil" , but lets not think we are superior to the world.
it seems to be getting us into more shit, huh?

Okay, The govt. did admit fucking up, hence where's Donny Rumsfeld now?

Pulling out now would ensure nothing short of total chaos and anarchy in an already unstable country, along with many terrorists plotting against us free to do as they wish.

Saddam may not have had the WMD's but he was in the process of aquiring them.(who's soil do you think they would have been intended for?)

It would take less than a year for a full on war to take place on our soil if we stopped doing what we are doing.

I heard a guy put it this way, "When you see the coyotes rallying on the horizon to attack the barn, you don't de-claw the cats in the barn. You shoot the fuckers with a high powered rifle before they get to the barn.)

This world is all about buttfucking keith, the question is do you wanna pitch or catch?

[Baceman Spiff]

If we pull out now. Iran and Syria are going to march right in, to set up the kind of government they want. An Islamic state. One that not only supports terrorists but breeds them as well. Not unlike the Taliban in Afghanistan, who allowed Bin Laden to recruit and train his army of martyrs.

The American Government has admitted time and time again, that mistakes have been made. That why we have a new secretary of defense. And a whole new set of worthless congressmen. Let the historians decide whether going into Iraq was a good idea or not. The fact remains, we're there now. You can devise conspiracy theories, and post all the anti war propaganda you want, its not going to bring them home any sooner.

[Baceman Spiff]

I heard a guy put it this way, "When you see the coyotes rallying on the horizon to attack the barn, you don't de-claw the cats in the barn. You shoot the fuckers with a high powered rifle before they get to the barn.)

This world is all about buttfucking keith, the question is do you wanna pitch or catch?

eloquent...

Sorry if my last post echoes that of Brian's. It wasnt my intention, he just beat me to punch.

[DirtySanchez]

I said this world is all about buttfucking keith!!!

Oh shit, HAHAHAHA

[BDR]

I said this world is all about buttfucking keith!!!

Oh shit, HAHAHAHA

Yeah, you forgot a needed comma that completely changes the meaning of the statement ... LOL.

r:>)

[DirtySanchez]

I'm not gonna edit it either, it's too funny.

[SpellboundByMetal]

Hey, what can I say? Im a cheap date

[Primates]

I disagree.

Do you know how LONG it would take another country to "take our place".

Give China another 6 years and we're in trouble. If we continue the loligaggin bullshit that is.

[SpellboundByMetal]

China??!?! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! are you stoned?!?!?

[Primates]

they are the worlds 2nd largest economy in the world. And they are modernizing and expanding their military.

They can throw 2.5 million men into a fight and not even blink. Not to mention they are buying soviet missles that were meant to sink aircraft carriers. Their airforce is well over 900 air craft which includes 300 J-8 Air-Superiority Fighters.

Yea...thats a threat.

[SpellboundByMetal]

2nd largest economy because WE ship stuff there to be built!

Fuck the chinese

[Hawk]

they are the worlds 2nd largest economy in the world. And they are modernizing and expanding their military.

They can throw 2.5 million men into a fight and not even blink. Not to mention they are buying soviet missles that were meant to sink aircraft carriers. Their airforce is well over 900 air craft which includes 300 J-8 Air-Superiority Fighters.

Yea...thats a threat.

We should really start another thread instead of hijacking this one but,

I'm sure there are countries out there just watching us deplete our military (in finances, stockpiled materials and in men and women) lickin' their chops.

Insurgence can defeat the best of armies. Those were the tactics we (the colonies) used against the British. And we know who won that war.