In Regards to "The Scene"

[SIXSTYLE]

I haven't been on this site in years... And upon reading through some of the threads, I have to say, I see where the thread "Tired" spawned from.
I remember this site being real cool, and all talk of shows and musicians getting together comments on performances and an all out heated arguments over funny shit like how bassists and drummers suck... or who were the best guitarists.... that was funny stuff.
But now it's like reading a bunch of forwarded emails.

The music in this area(centre county) isn't thriving in music... I mean come on.. State College being in Rolling Stone for best music scene... well ok, that was 2005.
It's 2007 now and I think that's where the frustration comes in.
In 2 years alot has changed...Where's the crowbar? It's a dance club. What are the most packed bars in state college?
Dance clubs... So for 2007, it may get the best DJ scene but I doubt it's going to get anything in regards to bands. I mean we have huge acts coming here though, all at the bryce jordan center.... a place built for basketball. The sound is horrible in there. Why are there no places built for shows? And why doesn't Tussey Mountain have more shows like it used too? (aside from wing challenges)
That place sounds awesome with bands...

The best show I've seen in the past year was a free concert called Kirkstock in state college. This guy somehow put together this little festival in his backyard and they had a few local bands... the wilcox hotel,the man... a band called alien red from philly, Brownbird Rudy relic from NY... the point is this guy did this in his freakin yard... and it was great. If there were more outdoor venues like that to go to then maybe
we could have more of a unity in a "scene"

It's apparent there's alot of talent in the area, I just don't think most of them are playing. They're to busy posting bad recordings on myspace
to see what people think than to play in front of an audience and feel the reaction. So instead of complaining about how there isn't a scene... why not just create one?
Like back in the day when 969 was around and they rented out community buildings and held they're own shows. That was a scene. That shit should've been documented.
those were the days.

[UNEARTHA7XMatt]

I agree man. I wish the Becky Sheets building still rented out for shows. Last time I heard they didnt. If anyone hears different let me know! But in state college, without the Crowbar or the Saloon there really wouldnt be much live music. Now the Crowbar is gone all there is left is the Saloon or The Arena. I also wish there were more outdoor festivals for local acts. If anyone is interested in Gettin one together possibly at the same place the Lincoln Caverns Ho-Down is held, Get ahold of me on here or e-mail me at slapslikeike@hotmail.com.


Thanks
Matt
SeVeR

[red]

Like back in the day when 969 was around and they rented out community buildings and held they're own shows. That was a scene. That shit should've been documented.
those were the days.

We (969) used to have some great shows! 100's of people would come out....cheers to those days!

[CMOR]

Hell Yeah! I remember coming up to Clearfield for shows. I loved playing the Rock. Sounded like pooh, but the vibe was awesome. The all-age shows in Altoona(the YWCA, Loft, and everywhere else) were great. Sometimes, I actually miss it.

[GoneForever]

We (969) used to have some great shows! 100's of people would come out....cheers to those days!

The shows were great because the Clearfield scene owned hard. My and my buddies always made trips from Bedford to Altoona and Clearfield for 969 and NWR shows.

[SpellboundByMetal]

Talking about the "good old days" does NOTHING for the scene now.

[DirtySanchez]

No hard feelings guys, but you're just getting old.

the all ages scene is still here. There are always national touring punk, folk, and hardcore acts playing in the area. Altoona has The Lions Den, ( I know it sucks ) But Bands like The Red Chord, One Dead Three Wounded, and Sworn Enemy Have played there recently. Drive by and you'll see hundreds of kids there at least once a week. Same with Jaggard St. Methodist Church. In Johnstown there's the Grove, Ace's and The Log Cabin in Salix. Face it, it's there, it's thriving, and if you're not a part of it, you're prolly in your thirties or older, and play music that is better off played in bars. Nobody goes to an all ages show to hear hardcore from 10 years ago, nu metal, and especially not party bands.

The thing is there are many different "scenes" and yes you've got to create them. Christ, Songsmith has almost single handedly created a fucking BLUEGRASS scene in the area. So think about that if you're in a ROCK band that isn't drawing. Anyways whatever, I'm sure if you complain, cry, beg, bitch, moan,pray, and wish upon a star enough, things will work themselves out. Just Sayin.

[Rich]

My "opinion" why none of this goes on anymore.... "No respect and Legal". Nobody has respect for others, nor property. You can't go out and have a "good" time with out a fight, shooting or getting stabbed! (Hot Point in Shippensburg, Wednesday night!)... And god for bid someone would get hurt at one of these shows. Like, step in a hole and twist a ankle. They could sue you and you'd loss your a$$... Then there is the "Law Man".... That's a joke in its self!!! Go bust some herion dealers, dealing to 12 year old girls. Then trying to rape them or pimp them out for there "habit"..... Let the "party" alone!!!!

Just my take on it!!!!

Oh, yeah... And the fact that most bands don't stay together for more than a month or 2 and by the time the show comes around. The will be none left to play!!!!

Whatever happened to "Willapoloza" in Perry Co.... That was a kickass weekend... Or "Wade Stock" in Snyder Co... That was a blast as well!!!

[SpellboundByMetal]

about national acts @ the lions den: were not talking about nationals, were talking about OUR scene here. who cares what nationals do? not i, sir.


Having a band and playing occasional shows to bars of drunkards DOESNT mean there is a scene!
It just means that bars book bands and sometimes people happen to be getting drunk there. Ive been to enough shows up here to know, that not many bands have the REAL FANS i spoke about before and to know that yeah, maybe there IS a "scene"...but its wounded. Selling cds to mainly friends doesnt count, ....family and friends coming to the shows dont count. without that, most metal bands wouldnt have ANYONE. Even non-metal bands ive seen here. Mediocre attendance. With the exception of Hair Force One. THEY have a fanbase Just using them as one example.

Only playing 1 place & being the 'house band' at that bar doesnt count either.

The ONLY way metal bands can have a REAL SCENE is by pulling together and making one ourselves. My active band now isnt metal, but through some very recent changes....my other band is gonna be fuckin rip your face off time. So, soon enough, ill be able to play in the metal scene again. I think there should be a core group of 3-4 guys who are dedicated to reviving the scene and making it STRONGER. we need to get MORE attendance to metal shows. NOT JUST PEOPLE DRINKING. We need people who came TO SEE THE BAND.
Anyway, i throw my hat into the ring as one of those 3-4 guys. Id do anything i could to see a REAL METAL SCENE in this area.

I dont see how playing to someone who wouldnt care if it was your band or The Davis Nutley Experience could be fulfilling.

Oh well. Just my opinion.

[DirtySanchez]

I'm cool with how everything is for my band. Who doesn't want more fans? I brought up nationals because you can go to these shows and hand out flyers, cd's etc. You know "networking". The music we play is called "underground" for a reason. The reason is "unpopular" just has a bad ring to it. If you want hundreds of people to show up to your original projects show, you better be playing a festival or with a national act.

Yes, i'm happy with the scene for my music, Because I'm not trying to be Johnny Fucking Rockstar, I have many hobbies and this is one. I also have a real job that pays for my lifestyle and supports my family, so the pressure is not there. No offense but if I bitched as much as half of you guys, I would not think twice about quitting altogether. It's pathetic.

[BDR]

Yes, i'm happy with the scene for my music, Because I'm not trying to be Johnny Fucking Rockstar, I have many hobbies and this is one.

Aye.

No offense but if I bitched as much as half of you guys, I would not think twice about quitting altogether. It's pathetic.

Aye.

r:>)

[SpellboundByMetal]

I guess man. If youre happy playing to barely anyone or people who would be there drinking anyway, thats cool.
Some of us desire MORE for the scene and our bands. Bitching makes it better because it brings it to a breaking point where HOPEFULLY people decide to make it better.

Im not knocking your choice to only be happy with the BARE MINIMUM, Id just want MORE for my band. Thats all.
I have hobbies too. Hopefully another job soon.
Hopefully this schooling thing works out, then ill be amazingly busy.
ILL STILL WORK ON MUSIC AND FIGHT FOR THE SCENE. Why? because its supremely important to me. If i was just satisfied with the bare minimum, id have to quit playing. Whats the point?

[DirtySanchez]

What does a real metal scene look like? As the slayer dude posted in another thread, it's a community. (that means like minded people or FRIENDS if you will).

Your Shangri-La does not exist. Unsigned Metal acts do not draw throngs of people. It's more like a family.

I don't want to start an argument with a friend on the internet. So keith if you would like to discuss this more at length feel free to call me or we can hang out and discuss it.

[SpellboundByMetal]

Id like to hang of course. I think this debate would make great convo for us! haha.
JUST DONT LOOK AT ME. you always scare me. HAHA. You give me that "Deliverance Look'. HAHA,
Anyway, i wasnt trying to argue with you at all. Just simply voicing my opinion on the subject.

You ask what my Shangri-La Metal scene looks like?
Picture this...Awesome metal bands playing LOUD AS FUCK.....A place full of topless well-endowed women.....standing on a floor custom made of coverband musicans.
Just kidding! Seriously CB dudes...just a joke.

Are you going out anywhere tonight, Brian?

[VENTGtr]

To a large extent, I think the people who post on here are covering a
pretty large region to be calling the overall area a "scene". More like
an expanse.

As for State, there are still many places that have bands. The Phyrst,
Skellar, Bar Bleu, Cafe, Darkhorse, Saloon, Zeno's, the Lion's Den is
looking into it again, even Prospector's has Kenny Volz playing there
Thursdays and others on another night, and that's nowhere near all
of them.

I think the idea of State College being noted as a serious "scene" had
a lot to do with the fact that from the late 80s until the last couple of
years a lot more bands were doing more original stuff during their
shows, local radio playing their local bands, etc.

Also, places like Café 210 had bands like Fuel, Rusted Root, etc. that
were touring regionally and on their way "up" (for lack of a better word).
Crowbar certainly helped that as well.

That's can be the downside of vertical booking. Works if you're a band
who likes doing it and you're a bar owner who wants consistency and
knowing what you're going to have each week but there can be drawbacks.

Another thing that hurts in other places are the PLCB being tougher,
the threats of noise violations, etc.

Quite possibly the, the biggest problems with many venues is that the
owners/bookers just don't promote. Certainly not enough anyway.
Prolly get tired of me saying it, but it's definitely a problem and maybe
the biggest one for the places not right in State College, maybe even
Altoona.

For whatever problems some may have with Bar 53 (We really like the
place and they do a great job at being a live music friendly) they do a
good job of promoting in print and radio. Could do more online possibly,
but they have a consistent clientele and such, so it's hard to have any
issues. They pay pretty well, certainly for their size and location and, for
us, it's been a great environment to play.

The Redwood Inn, in Lecontes Mills, is similar. A smaller places pretty
far out that's a blast to play and deserves some mention. Others around
as well.

A lot of places try to figure out how to do things on the cheap or think a
bad night means you don't try something again. In the same way bands
need to build a following, bars/venues need to do the same. In the same
way the best bands can have a bad night, so can a venue.

The numbers of people who go out to see bands is definitely down.
Part of the reason is so many bands doing the exact same songs, part
of it is the threat of DUI, part of it is a crap economy and part is that, often,
people don't even know a place is having a band(s).

Do you make less if you play a variety of places than you did 10-15 or
more years ago, absolutely. And there's more of a chance that if you're
not from around that particular area, you'll be playing to not-so-many
people than in years past where you could count on a crowd. The building
process may be slower and harder and you may have to work out the
places you feel it's worth playing AND it may be harder to get in even
some smaller places.

That being said, if you put in the work and understand some of these
things, you're still getting to do something that you just can't beat. If you
play to that few people there the first night as hard as to a packed place,
the next time it's more likely you'll have more people, and so on.

Ya, the hardcore/heavier and all original bands can have a tougher
time but that's, unfortunately, part of taking that route. Not accusing
anyone of complaining, saying differently, etc. just pointing out that
you have a different, maybe additional, set of challenges. Sure you
understand goin' in that goes with the territory, unfortunate as that is.

I've said before how much respect I have for the Hardcore community
and respect how those guys back each other up and always catch each
other's sets.

We throw in a coupl'a original tunes every night and we've gotten to the
point where we'll see a few people singing along. We also like the idea
of playing the 3-4 hours a night so the majority is goin' to have to be covers
anyway. If it was good enough for The Beatles to do it that way, who are
we to complain.

As to the point Rich was making with the "Tired" thread, it is harder to
find people as committed as it used to be. Unfortunately, that's just
something we'll prolly have to deal with until a lot of the "younger" guys
who are working hard now get to be of bar-playing age and looking for
new bands. Seems there's a good number of them on here, which is a
huge positive.

Maybe in a few years we'll have band members who will feel bad seeing
us "older" people (I'm only 38 but my son called me "Yau Man" after
figuring out the other guys in VENT were 24, 25, and 26) loading
gear so they'll volunteer to do it all.

Ah. A slow day here it would seem. Where's my coffee....and mebbe
Geritol....and Metamucil. Can't forget the Metamucil. NURSE! Change me!

Later,
DaveP.

[BDR]

I guess man. If youre happy playing to barely anyone or people who would be there drinking anyway, thats cool.
Some of us desire MORE for the scene and our bands. Bitching makes it better because it brings it to a breaking point where HOPEFULLY people decide to make it better.

Im not knocking your choice to only be happy with the BARE MINIMUM, Id just want MORE for my band. Thats all.
I have hobbies too. Hopefully another job soon.
Hopefully this schooling thing works out, then ill be amazingly busy.
ILL STILL WORK ON MUSIC AND FIGHT FOR THE SCENE. Why? because its supremely important to me. If i was just satisfied with the bare minimum, id have to quit playing. Whats the point?

Personally, I don't think anybody is satisfied with the bare minimum, but, if I could expand on what Brian was saying, I think you have to stay grounded at all times and keep in perspective the reailty of the situation. None of us — not even the CB peeps — are so "established" in the sense that we're an automatic draw wherever we go, but that's the challenge: To build that fan base, and it takes time and patience no matter waht you're doing (original, cover or both).

The reward for me personally is watching it grow. This is not a "boast" so please don't label it as such, but, especially over the past 6-8 months, we've started to see people travel from Huntingdon to Altoona to see us, from Altoona to Ebensburg to see us, even from Huntingdon to flippin' Indiana to see us, and the numbers of these traveling people are growing. Sometimes, it blows my mind to see some of these faces wlaking through the door. It's nothing that's just exploding, but it's more of something that grew and continues to grow with time, you know, the old, "he tells two friends, and they tell two friends, and they tell two friends" routine.

Also, I've had different people who are not really fans of the music we play tell us they're fans of the band because they have a good time at the shows and that's kind of what we try to sell — a good time — along with what we think is a good mix of stuff for a lot of tastes.

Anything that you stick to and believe in long enough almost has to grow if you put any effort into it, but the patience factor is so important. When you lose that patience, IMHO, that's when you start wondering what's wrong with the scene.

r:>)

[VENTGtr]

""he tells two friends, and they tell two friends, and they tell two friends""

Ah yes. In scientific terms, known as the "The PRELL Effect".

[SpellboundByMetal]

You make good points, BDRob.
The only difference is most, if not all METAL bands around here are original. They dont have a popular setlist. Their songs arent known by people in Altoona if they are from Ebensburg. You have a step up on the metal bands. Atleast most people KNOW your setlist.
We (people in metal bands) need to really get the music out there and get people coming from other places like you have for your shows. Its just a LITTLE easier for you because of the setlist, wouldnt you say?
Original Metal isnt starting that far ahead.
Maybe there is a decent scene buried somewhere here. Maybe all it needs is a bit of coordinating.

[BDR]

You make good points, BDRob.
The only difference is most, if not all METAL bands around here are original. They dont have a popular setlist. Their songs arent known by people in Altoona if they are from Ebensburg. You have a step up on the metal bands. Atleast most people KNOW your setlist.
We (people in metal bands) need to really get the music out there and get people coming from other places like you have for your shows. Its just a LITTLE easier for you because of the setlist, wouldnt you say?
Original Metal isnt starting that far ahead.
Maybe there is a decent scene buried somewhere here. Maybe all it needs is a bit of coordinating.

Great post. And of course I agree that covers are easier to sell than originals. It is definitely a different situation when you're trying to build a fan base with original music, but that brings me to my next point: What separates one metal band from another metal band? Why should people see one instead of the other, even if it means traveling?

Consider this. With cover bands, people in Town A can really stay in Town A to hear Cover Band X play the popular songs or they can go to Town B and hear Cover Band Y do them. So why travel? Why follow any particular band, original or cover? Maybe it's because they had a better time at Cover Band Y's show. Whatever the reason, you have to figure out what makes people (fans) stay loyal to particular bands if you want to grow that following.

This is not a knock on anyone, but through the years I've seen a buttload of bands (cover and original) do the same old thing: Stand there and play. To me, live music performance is better than say, a DJ (which is the REAL enemy to ALL bands, BTW) because of the "live" element of the show. It's always been my philosophy that you have to give the crowd more reasons to be at your show than just the music itself, otherwise, the DJs would kill all of us.

What is that "something extra?" When we're performing, I just try to put myself on the shoes of the "fans" and try to make it an experience they couldn't get anywhere else.

Cool. A discussion. Next?

r:>)

[mjb]

i think you should be playing for yourself, first and foremost above all. no matter if your a vocalist or whatever instrument you play when your in it to say , hey look at me look what i can do aren't i the fucking coolest i think your world is just going to be filled with disappointment. i play for me but i'm not really into the performing side of things, just me personally i'm just as content sitting out in the yard with an acoustic or if i get the stage jones which comes upon me from time to time i can go sit in or hit a jam nite somewhere and i'm good for another year or two.and while i'm at it, as soon as you put a price tag on playing guess what more stress, more disappointement. by having this attitude about my playing and where its taking me i feel good and successful because i set out to play for me first and i don't have to be upset about the scene, other people sticking it to ya blah, blah blah. harmony is where its at as far as music is concerned. you can't have harmony when you constantly bitching and crying about shit all the fucking time. and its the most important ingredient in making music.

this isn't a personal attack on anybody just my .02

[DirtySanchez]

Keith, I will be taking my niece to a fishing derby for kids tomorrow, so I'm homebound with her tonight. If you wanna stop by gimme a call I'll be home. We can shoot some pool or something. If not call me tomorrow afternoon, I have practice then I think Don and I are gonna get together and do something. You're more than welcome to join us. Looking at everyones perspective on this, it looks like everyone wants the same things but, handle it differently. I don't imagine there is a "correct" way, just do what works for you. Rob and I have pretty much the same outlook on things. I also understand that people have different goals and expectations. If I could change anything about the music scene, I wish some people/bands would get over themselves, but I know I cannot change that so I don't let it piss me off.

[GoneForever]

Does the Lion's Den have a website?

[SpellboundByMetal]

Nope, ive never known them to have one.

[SIXSTYLE]

Wow... I'm amazed by all the posts.
But I think it went a little off track.
first off, I'm not old... And The lions den is not making it a thriving scene.
Maybe that times ten would make a scene.
Secondly, What seperates one metal band from another metal band?
That question applies to everything. Why choose mcdonald's over burger king? What make's a band good? What's the difference between any band in the same musical category? Why do you like the bands you like over the billions that are out there?
The idea of a music "Scene" which i wasn't whining about by the way.. I was talking about how there needs to be more unity and more originality.

"No one is going to see a bunch of unsigned metalbands" really? Well, what if it wasn't just metalbands? What if it was a day of all types of music, but mainly showcasing the original music of the area?
I may be wrong, but I believe all bands start out unsigned right?
So why do you need a Big Name Act to bring in people? To me, that
makes it harder for locals to be heard because everyone there wants to see the last band. I'm not trying to start a metal scene here, I'm talking about a MUSIC scene...
I was merely using the old 969 days as a point that a scene can be made.
I know they still have metal shows in clearfield/altoona... but really.. more could be done.

I believe if you take the best talent in the area, and work on showcasing it... MAybe even 4 bands a night, all different styles... more people will come and more original music will be heard.

[bassist4life2004]

if everyone put as much energy into their music as they do into pissing contests on rockpage, the "scene" would be pretty smokin' , IMHO.