Changes that you would make to a bar

[VENTGtr]

I think the weekends are fine. Weekdays, though, I think some places
could do better than they are by having bands, say 8-11, 9-12. I've
done weekday shows during these hours in the passt and they've gone
great. But, most places don't do them anymore.

Go to a lot of bars on a Thursday night and it's the bartender and some old
guy(s) ogling her. In the same way Pelly's does Sunday shows, why not
have a place that doesn't feel like they can (Currently anyway) compete
with other places Saturdays do a weekday thing?

I'd love to play every Monday or Wednesday and would be more than
happy to play until 2, but how many people outside of State College (Do
those Juniata College kids go out every night of the week?) would stay
out until then during the week.

Oh..and yes, I am absolutely getting old and freely admit so. I'll be oglin'
with the old cats here soon enough.

[DirtySanchez]

Songsmith,

I actually know quite a few people in there twenties who love blugrass.

A few of them used to play it. Do you know any of the guys from what used to be The Eldorado Valley Ramblers? ( they're all around 30)

I even like some of it myself, but I'm more into old country like Hank, Johnny Cash, Haggard etc.

[YankeeRose]

In case y'all didn't see it, Byndrsn was on television last night speaking on behalf of A.B.A.T.E. regarding helmet laws. "SUPERSTAR!"

[byndrsn]

In case y'all didn't see it, Byndrsn was on television last night speaking on behalf of A.B.A.T.E. regarding helmet laws. "SUPERSTAR!"

Oh man - I really hoped no one saw that!!! Of all the things she asked me about, and all the answers I gave her - I thought that was the worst.

(I'm gonna go hang my head in shame!!!)

[songsmith]

Songsmith,

I actually know quite a few people in there twenties who love blugrass.

A few of them used to play it. Do you know any of the guys from what used to be The Eldorado Valley Ramblers? ( they're all around 30)

I even like some of it myself, but I'm more into old country like Hank, Johnny Cash, Haggard etc.

Yeah, I see the young bucks at shows... I was just bitching about getting old... it's a hobby you acquire when high-school girls stop checking you out. Bluegrass is fast, difficult & technical, and is the last thing your parents expect you to like... what's not to love?
Never heard of the Eldorado Valley Ramblers, but if they're from Altoona, I might know a member or two. If you see one of them, remind them I have a jam for them to go to.
As for old country, I'm right there with you on that one. Zappa'sX's ex burned me a CD of some of his old obscure traditional honkytonk last week, and it made me pine for my last band, .OO Buck. I'd love to do a hybrid of bluegrass and old country.-------->JMS

[Lisa]

Tried the early start time...didn't pan out...band was packing up when the crowd started coming in...even advertised it as an earlier start time but they don't read very well.

Tried music during the week, but since we are so rural, we don't have enough people who are willing to come out and help pay the bands' fees.

I'm looking forward to the smoking ban. In my opinion...and only mine...not those of our owners or anyone else's....if all bars go smokefree its an even battlefield. Otherwise, for our place to go smokefree...we'll gain some new customers, but we'll loose the old regulars too.

Its not an easy business...and its never a 40 hour work week. I'd like to hear some more thoughts on what venues can do to improve (of course, that's granted I won the lottery and could afford to put money into any changes)......

Things I'd love to change about The Popper....

1 - Close the restaurant and expand the bar so there would be plenty of room to eat but you would all be in one room.

2 - Redo the bar(s) in the banquet room to make them usable...people wonder why we don't have a full bar back there on band nights....its just not set up for that...we wish it was.

3 - Be able to afford more staffing so I wouldn't have to work band nights and I could enjoy the shows myself!

4 - Have customers who don't complain about paying $2 for a bottle/can of beer and who are willing to tip their servers....you would be so surprised as to how many customers don't tip. Its not the service either....they just don't tip.

5 - When we can expand the bar (see item 1), have about 10 more taps!

6 - Have tons of customers who drink enough drafts to keep the beer in the kegs fresh

[BDR]

When I first read this tread on Sunday night my first thought was that I was going to see how many more posts there were in a couple day and then print it out and give it to a couple bar owners that I know. Since then there have been many replies but now I would be embarrassed to share this thread with any of them. This topic took a real bad turn along the way - started out as a great thing and then went to shit very quickly!!!

Urbs

Funny, the "Sunday night" time frame you reference is right before differing opinions began to crop up. Prior to Monday, the opinions were all "for" earlier start times and no smoking.

Does that mean you're interested in sharing info with bar owners as long as that info agrees with your own personal opinion? From what you've posted, I guess if someone disagrees with you, that means the thread has taken a "real bad turn."

Hmmmm ....

Also, the senior center my mom goes to is looking for new entertainment. They want to start shows at 4 p.m. Any takers? That way, all of those who can't take the hours can get to bed about 9:30 p.m. (and, as an added bonus, it's smoke-free!!!).

The bar biz is a nighttime biz, whether or not there's entertainment. Period. If it's too late for you, maybe it's time for a new hobby.

r:>)

[byndrsn]

Does that mean you're interested in sharing info with bar owners as long as that info agrees with your own personal opinion?

No Rob, It had nothing to do with my own personal opinion.

This topic started off with interesting suggestions. It looked like a serious topic that could have had a lot of well thought out suggestions for bar owners.

Then it went down hill with remarks about Beans, Rooms people could "do it" in, fighting rings with sumo suits, etc.

From what you've posted, I guess if someone disagrees with you, that means the thread has taken a "real bad turn."

Maybe I wasn't clear enough in my statement, so I wouldn't have any problem with you asking for clarification - but I do have a problem with your assumption that if someone disagrees with me then the thread has taken a bad turn!!!

[BDR]

Cool, thanks for the clarification ... and I agree that "beans," "do-it rooms" and "sumo wrestling" probably didn't contribute to the discussion very much, other than to add some comic relief ...

r:>)

[songsmith]

Also, the senior center my mom goes to is looking for new entertainment. They want to start shows at 4 p.m. Any takers? That way, all of those who can't take the hours can get to bed about 9:30 p.m. (and, as an added bonus, it's smoke-free!!!).

r:>)

4pm... that'd be right after a late supper, for old people. Then it's off to bed, and drift off to dreamland during the 5pm news. And of course it's smoke-free... there's oxygen in use. ------>JMS

[BDR]

And of course it's smoke-free... there's oxygen in use. ------>JMS

KA-BOOM!!!!

r:>)

[VENTGtr]

Also, the senior center my mom goes to is looking for new entertainment. They want to start shows at 4 p.m. Any takers? That way,
all of those who can't take the hours can get to bed about 9:30 p.m. (and,
as an added bonus, it's smoke-free!!!).
r:>)

EXCELLENT! AND, since I'm living there anyway it's a no-travel deal!
I should pay more attention to the signs on the cork-board.

PLUS, I'll bet you get free apple juice drafts and since most of them
are deaf already, no complaints about noise-levels!

Win-Win and WIN!!!! I am SO there.





Lisa,

Actually, one of the things I like with the Popper is that the bar section is separate from
the restaurant side. I don't like having the kid places with smoke and a lot of families
prolly feel the same way (Granted, we used to go to go out to eat all the time but it's
pretty rare nowadays). Though, I can see where the layout at the Popper can definitely
be improved.

Ya, a bar in the area where bands play is a big plus. It's one of those things that can
make a smaller place better-suited to bigger rooms.

4 - Have customers who don't complain about paying $2 for a bottle/can of beer and
who are willing to tip their servers....

Yep. People suck that way.

5 - When we can expand the bar (see item 1), have about 10 more taps!

Make one of those Sleeman's Dark and I'll be one of those creepy guys that hang
out there too late.

[DirtySanchez]

Cool, thanks for the clarification ... and I agree that "beans," "do-it rooms" and "sumo wrestling" probably didn't contribute to the discussion very much, other than to add some comic relief ...

r:>)

As was intended, because the "earlier start date- non-smoking" thing has been beat worse than a married woman in a trailer park.

[BDR]

Cool, thanks for the clarification ... and I agree that "beans," "do-it rooms" and "sumo wrestling" probably didn't contribute to the discussion very much, other than to add some comic relief ...

r:>)

As was intended, because the "earlier start date- non-smoking" thing has been beat worse than a married woman in a trailer park.

Bingo ...

r:>)

[VENTGtr]

Sooo...there isn't really a gig at the retirement home? Ugh. Where are
my meds?

[DirtySanchez]

Sooo...there isn't really a gig at the retirement home? Ugh. Where are
my meds?

Just show up and play. They'll just assume they forgot there was a show scheduled.

[mikers85]

I think the folks at Altria are really doing a good job since most of the debate on smoking in bars is about clothes stinking instead of stuff like this:

http://www.hhs.gov/news/press/2006pres/20060627.html

Some important information from this article:

"U.S. Surgeon General Richard H. Carmona today issued a comprehensive scientific report which concludes that there is no risk-free level of exposure to secondhand smoke. Nonsmokers exposed to secondhand smoke at home or work increase their risk of developing heart disease by 25 to 30 percent and lung cancer by 20 to 30 percent. The finding is of major public health concern due to the fact that nearly half of all nonsmoking Americans are still regularly exposed to secondhand smoke.

The report, The Health Consequences of Involuntary Exposure to Tobacco Smoke, finds that even brief secondhand smoke exposure can cause immediate harm. The report says the only way to protect nonsmokers from the dangerous chemicals in secondhand smoke is to eliminate smoking indoors.

“The report is a crucial warning sign to nonsmokers and smokers alike,” HHS Secretary Michael Leavitt said. "Smoking can sicken and kill, and even people who do not smoke can be harmed by smoke from those who do.”

Secondhand smoke exposure can cause heart disease and lung cancer in nonsmoking adults"

"“The scientific evidence is now indisputable: secondhand smoke is not a mere annoyance. It is a serious health hazard that can lead to disease and premature death in children and nonsmoking adults.” Secondhand smoke contains more than 50 cancer-causing chemicals, and is itself a known human carcinogen. Nonsmokers who are exposed to secondhand smoke inhale many of the same toxins as smokers. Even brief exposure to secondhand smoke has immediate adverse effects on the cardiovascular system and increases risk for heart disease and lung cancer, the report says."

[bassist_25]

My dad once played a gig at a retirement home. No joke.

[VENTGtr]

Sooo...there isn't really a gig at the retirement home? Ugh. Where are
my meds?

Just show up and play. They'll just assume they forgot there was a show scheduled.

Ya...but that's a convenient excuse to forget to pay. Old codgers can be
mighty stingy with their Buffalo coins and bank notes. Old bastards. I got
yer Benny Goodman right here, Gramps!

[byndrsn]

Cool, thanks for the clarification ... and I agree that "beans," "do-it rooms" and "sumo wrestling" probably didn't contribute to the discussion very much, other than to add some comic relief ...

r:>)

As was intended, because the "earlier start date- non-smoking" thing has been beat worse than a married woman in a trailer park.

Bingo ...

r:>)

Ah - I see it now - so you guys don't want to hear it because it goes against your opinions!?!?!?

[DirtySanchez]

I can't hear shit. I have to read everything.
What kinda fancy computer do you have?

[jangel]

whoa ......what is an old codger? I'm still playing R & R and I know I'm older...didn't say I was the best ...but I'm still playin and giggin. and enjoyin every minute of it.......how about you?

[BDR]

As was intended, because the "earlier start date- non-smoking" thing has been beat worse than a married woman in a trailer park.

Bingo ...

r:>)

Ah - I see it now - so you guys don't want to hear it because it goes against your opinions!?!?!?

Exactly. (Not really sure what you mean but OK ...)

In all seriousness, I think we should all focus on what's really important here ... that little fag finally got booted from American Idol this week.



r:>)

[VENTGtr]

I can't hear shit. I have to read everything.

I can't read but my hearing is fine. I know this because I can clearly
hear a constant ringing.

What kinda fancy computer do you have?

Abacus. I don't know how to use it...or count...but people seem
VERY impressed when they see it sitting here.

[moxham123]

Since the issue of no smoking in bars in Pennsylvania has come up frequently in this topic, I thought you might like to see this.

I found a copy of the Pennsylvania State Senate Bill that was introduced on January 29, 2007 pending legislation vote and approval to enact and establish the Clean Indoor Air Act (which is actually the no smoking law bill)


THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF PENNSYLVANIA

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SENATE BILL
No. 246 Session of 2007


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INTRODUCED BY GREENLEAF, ERICKSON, O'PAKE, CORMAN, WASHINGTON,
C. WILLIAMS, LOGAN AND ORIE, JANUARY 29, 2007


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

REFERRED TO PUBLIC HEALTH AND WELFARE, JANUARY 29, 2007


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AN ACT

1 Establishing the Clean Indoor Air Act; imposing duties upon the
2 Department of Health; imposing penalties; and repealing a
3 related provision of the Fire and Panic Act.

4 The General Assembly of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania
5 hereby enacts as follows:
6 Section 1. Short title.
7 This act shall be known and may be cited as the Clean Indoor
8 Air Act.
9 Section 2. Legislative findings and purpose.
10 (a) Findings.--The General Assembly finds as follows:
11 (1) The use of tobacco products is dangerous not only to
12 the person smoking, but also to nonsmokers who must breathe
13 the contaminated air.
14 (2) The Environmental Protection Agency has classified
15 second-hand tobacco smoke as a Class A carcinogen, a
16 classification reserved for the most lethal environmental
17 hazards, such as asbestos, benzene, formaldehyde and radon.
18 (3) Approximately 53,000 nonsmokers in the United States


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 die annually from lung and heart disease due to exposure to
2 passive smoke.
3 (4) Three hundred thousand children exposed to tobacco
4 smoke have increased frequency of lower respiratory
5 infections, such as pneumonia and bronchitis.
6 (5) Tobacco smoke is also responsible for up to
7 1,000,000 attacks of asthma, 8,000 to 26,000 new cases of
8 asthma and significant reduction in lung function, and causes
9 serious middle ear infections among children each year.
10 (b) Purpose.--By enactment of this legislation, the General
11 Assembly intends to protect the public health, the comfort of
12 all persons and the environment by prohibiting smoking in public
13 places and workplaces.
14 Section 3. Definitions.
15 The following words and phrases when used in this act shall
16 have the meanings given to them in this section unless the
17 context clearly indicates otherwise:
18 "Department." The Department of Health of the Commonwealth.
19 "Public meeting." A meeting open to the public including any
20 meeting open to the public pursuant to 65 Pa.C.S. Ch. 7
21 (relating to open meetings).
22 "Public place." An enclosed area to which the public is
23 invited or in which the public is permitted, including any place
24 listed in section 5.
25 "Restaurant." An eating establishment that offers food for
26 sale to the public.
27 "Service line." A line at which one or more persons are
28 waiting for or receiving service of any kind, whether or not
29 such service involves the exchange of money.
30 "Smoking." The carrying by a person of a lighted cigar,
20070S0246B0025 - 2 -


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1 cigarette, pipe or other lighted smoking device.
2 "Sports arena." A sports stadium, sports pavilion,
3 exhibition hall, gymnasium, health spa, boxing arena, swimming
4 pool, roller or ice rink, bowling alley or similar place where
5 members of the general public assemble to engage in physical
6 exercise, participate in athletic competition or witness sports
7 events.
8 "Tobacco shop." A business establishment the main purpose of
9 which is the sale of tobacco products including cigars, pipe
10 tobacco and smoking accessories.
11 "Workplace." An indoor area serving as a place of
12 employment, occupation, business, trade, craft, profession or
13 volunteer activity.
14 Section 4. Prohibition.
15 No person shall smoke in a public place or in a workplace.
16 Section 5. Public place.
17 The following enclosed areas are examples of public places:
18 (1) A place in which a public meeting is held.
19 (2) An educational facility.
20 (3) A school bus.
21 (4) A health facility.
22 (5) An auditorium.
23 (6) An arena.
24 (7) A theater.
25 (8) A museum.
26 (9) A restaurant.
27 (10) A bar or tavern.
28 (11) A concert hall.
29 (12) A commercial establishment.
30 (13) A retail store.
20070S0246B0025 - 3 -


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1 (14) A service line.
2 (15) A grocery store.
3 (16) A bingo hall.
4 (17) A waiting room or area.
5 (18) A hallway.
6 (19) A polling place.
7 (20) A restroom.
8 (21) A sports arena.
9 (22) A convention hall.
10 (23) An elevator.
11 (24) Public transit.
12 (25) A public food assistance program and facility.
13 (26) A shopping mall.
14 (27) An exhibition hall.
15 (28) A rotunda or lobby.
16 (29) A licensed gaming facility.
17 (30) At least 75% of the total number of sleeping
18 quarters that are available for rent to guests within any
19 single lodging establishment.
20 Section 6. Exception.
21 This act shall not apply to the following places:
22 (1) A private residence, except when used as a
23 childcare, adult daycare or health care facility.
24 (2) Designated sleeping quarters within a lodging
25 establishment that are available for rent to guests
26 accounting for no more than 25% of the total number of
27 lodging units within a single lodging establishment.
28 (3) A wholesale or retail tobacco shop whose sales of
29 tobacco products comprise 85% or more of gross sales on an
30 annual basis.
20070S0246B0025 - 4 -


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1 (4) All workplaces of any manufacturer, importer or
2 wholesaler of tobacco products, of any tobacco leaf dealer or
3 processor, and all tobacco storage facilities.
4 Section 7. Retaliation prohibited.
5 No person or employer shall discharge, refuse to hire or in
6 any manner retaliate against any employee or applicant for
7 employment because the employee or applicant exercises any right
8 to a smoke-free environment required by this act.
9 Section 8. Enforcement.
10 The Department of Health, a local board or department of
11 health or any affected party may institute an action in any
12 court with jurisdiction to enjoin a violation of the provisions
13 of this act.
14 Section 9. Penalty.
15 Any person who smokes in a public place or in a workplace or
16 violates any other provision of this act commits a summary
17 offense and shall pay:
18 (1) A fine not exceeding $100 for a first violation.
19 (2) A fine not exceeding $200 for a second violation
20 that occurs within one year.
21 (3) A fine not exceeding $500 for each additional
22 violation that occurs within one year.
23 Section 10. Rules and regulations.
24 The Department of Health shall promulgate and adopt rules and
25 regulations as are necessary and reasonable to implement the
26 provisions of this act. The department shall also engage in a
27 continuing program to explain and clarify the purposes and
28 requirements of this act to persons affected by it and to guide
29 owners, operators and managers in their compliance with it. The
30 programs may include publication of a brochure for affected
20070S0246B0025 - 5 -


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1 businesses and individuals explaining the provisions of this
2 act.
3 Section 11. Construction.
4 In any dispute arising under the provisions of this act, the
5 authority adjudicating the dispute shall construe the provisions
6 of this act in favor of the health concerns of persons who do
7 not engage in smoking and whose concerns shall represent the
8 public interest.
9 Section 12. Effect on local rules and ordinances.
10 This act shall not be construed to restrict the power of any
11 political subdivision to adopt and enforce any rule or ordinance
12 which complies with at least the minimum applicable standards
13 set forth in this act.
14 Section 13. Repeal.
15 Repeals are as follows:
16 (1) The General Assembly declares that the repeal under
17 paragraph (2) is necessary to effectuate this act.
18 (2) Section 10.1 of the act of April 27, 1927 (P.L.465,
19 No.299), referred to as the Fire and Panic Act, is repealed.
20 Section 14. Effective date.
21 This act shall take effect in 90 days.






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