Changes that you would make to a bar

BDR · Post by **BDR** » Monday Apr 16, 2007

So would you say that you "like beans?"

r:>)

songsmith · Post by **songsmith** » Monday Apr 16, 2007

In the beans v. tobacco debate, I am pro-bean.

Oddly, I have been a member of a smoker's advocacy group for years, but only insomuch as I feel tobacco companies have the right to grow and sell tobacco. I just hate people blowing it in my face when I'm trying to do my thing. It hits me the same way as farting. Lots of people do it, but that doesn't make doing a blow-by while I'm singing an okay thing to do.
Incidentally, I wouldn't do the bean thing around you if you didn't want me to. How does the average smoker react?-------->JMS

BDR · Post by **BDR** » Monday Apr 16, 2007

Did I mention that Jon Cryer, who starred as "Duckie" in the 80s brat pack flick, "Pretty in Pink," celebrates a birthday today, as does noted American composer Henry Mancini?

r:>)

DirtySanchez · Post by **DirtySanchez** » Monday Apr 16, 2007

songsmith wrote:Okaaaaaaay...
Let's look at a moot point objectively, and make some comparisons:

-- If I was in a room inundated with beans, I and everyone else, would giggle uncontrollably. My clothes would stink, but I'd have no crashing headache next day. - I have enough things to make me laugh and it does give me a headache.
-- People do not extend their bean addiction to others by insisting they have a constitutional right to indulge. That's because it's illegal, smoking is not a right but a privilege and what makes America great some call them FREEDOMS
-- Blowing beansmoke in one's face is not a way of saying, "F*ck you," it's a way of saying, "Shotgun?" If anyone blows shit in my face intentions will be lost.
-- People use beans to treat pain and appetite loss from cancer. People use tobacco to acquire cancer. I totally agree, but that's up to them.
-- People don't start bean usage because it "makes me look cool." Bullshit, smoked my first joint age nine cuz I thought it was cool, first cigarette age 20 cuz I thought it would help me calm down on the copenhagen.
-- I've never had to not pay a bill because I was down to my last bean. I have no bills that would be easier to pay cuz I smoke about a pack a week. But I'll smoke one When And where I want one.
-- Nobody ever put their beans out in my beer. I've had some stoners drink my beer cuz they were too high to know where their beer was.
-- Beans don't make a woman's voice sound skanky, or wrinkle her skin. I guess we should ban aging as well.
-- I don't wake up in the morning needing beans, finish a meal needing beans, leave work needing beans, sit in a bar needing beans, bum beans from a total stranger, bitch about having to enjoy beans outside in the cold, or feel discriminated against because my beans cost a lot. Incidentally, beans cost a lot. Oh so you like the buzz why then? Not cuz everything is better?
-- There are many more things to be said (see references to moot point) but I'll just point out that I've never inferred that someone was a pussy because they don't like beans. Those who do not partake of beans decrease demand for beans, thereby driving down the price of said psychoactive legumes. That is a good thing. I sold beans for awhile, thanks for your support.

Maybe I am a pussy, but I'm a perceptive one at the very least.
Point still moot.------------------->JMS

No your not a pussy, you're more like a born again Christian by the looks of your post.
No hard feelings, I see things alot the same way you do and really have no problem, just stating my side of the debate. Believe me I know better than to try to change someones perspective on the internet. Have a nice day, sorry if I kicked a bee's nest.

YankeeRose · Post by **YankeeRose** » Monday Apr 16, 2007

":D" I can explain "moot point" to you, but I can't understand it for you.

moxham123 · Post by **moxham123** » Monday Apr 16, 2007

Put this in the "Just so you know" category concerning the no smoking law issue.

Here are the current states, districts, and commonwealths of the U.S. that have already enacted no smoking laws for bars and restaurants.

• Arizona – effective May 1, 2007
• California
• Colorado
• Connecticut
• Delaware
• Hawaii
• Maine
• Massachusetts
• Montana – effective October 1, 2009 to include all bars
• New Jersey - casinos are next to be effective
• New Mexico – effective June 15, 2007
• New York
• Ohio
• Puerto Rico
• Rhode Island
• Utah – effective January 1, 2009 to include all bars
• Vermont
• Washington
• Washington D.C.

These states currently prohibit smoking in any establishment that serves food and has a bar:

• Florida
• Louisiana
• Idaho
• Montana
• Utah

There are many states that have no smoking in public work place laws pending legislation including:

• Pennsylvania
• Maryland

There are also hundreds of municipality and county no smoking in restaurant and bar laws in effect in many states.

Outside of the U.S.

Canada

• Manitoba
• New Brunswick
• Newfoundland and Labrador
• Northwest Territories
• Nova Scotia
• Nunavut
• Ontario
• Quebec
• Saskatchewan
• The cities of Edmonton and Calgary in Alberta
• British Columbia and Prince Edward Island require establishments to have a separate, ventilated room

There are many other countries with partial no smoking laws in enclosed public places but here are the current ones with no smoking in any bars and restaurants.

• Australia (most provinces and territories)
• Bhutan
• Denmark
• Ireland (Republic of)
• Lithuania
• New Zealand
• Norway
• Singapore
• South Africa
• Spain
• Sweden
• United Kingdom (England [except pubs not serving food], Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales)
• Uruguay

DirtySanchez · Post by **DirtySanchez** » Monday Apr 16, 2007

YankeeRose wrote:":D" I can explain "moot point" to you, but I can't understand it for you.

Well that makes it better http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-moo1.htm Thanks any way I UNDERSTAND.

Merge · Post by **Merge** » Monday Apr 16, 2007

There is a bar in Frostburg that is smoke free, and it's usually the most crowed bar in town. And we have quite a few bars here in Frostburg.

Bic & Que · Post by **Bic & Que** » Tuesday Apr 17, 2007

How about just stop serving alcohol in all bars?

That'd stop a lot of trouble....

Bars in Lewistown sell mostly crack now anyhow......

SpellboundByMetal · Post by **SpellboundByMetal** » Tuesday Apr 17, 2007

Bic & Que wrote:How about just stop serving alcohol in all bars?

That'd stop a lot of trouble....

Bars in Lewistown sell mostly crack now anyhow......

HAHAHA!

VENTGtr · Post by **VENTGtr** » Tuesday Apr 17, 2007

Guess this topic seems to have swerved a bit, eh?

As for bars and smoke, I don't care either way. Don't like smoke period,
but it's a bar, so I expecct it. I do, however, know a lot of people who
don't go to bars specifically because of it.

Also, in Canada it's not hurt bar attendance and when you're there you
notice the difference. Granted, Canadians are a heartier, better beer
loving people.

Would be nice not to have every piece of equipment stink, though.

byndrsn · Post by **byndrsn** » Tuesday Apr 17, 2007

I may as well post my opinions on this subject:

Smoking in bars - let it up to the owners. There are bars in this area that are smoke free. The government should not have the power to dictate what is allowed (or not allowed) when it comes to a legal activity in someones business. I'm so sick of government intrusion!!

Band Times: I agree that it would be nice to have earlier times. I am seriously thinking about getting out of the scene and one of the main factors is the extremely late hours. My 2 yr old is usually up around 7:00 in the morning - and after getting in only 3 or 4 hours before that on a Sunday morning - I'm useless. It's not fair to my wife or to my little boy. Besides, I know that I would try to get out once in a while to hear a band if they were playing at a decent hour, but if Beyond Reason is not playing, I'm usually in bed by 10:00 on a Friday or Saturday night.

And - I would just like to bitch about something: When I first read this tread on Sunday night my first thought was that I was going to see how many more posts there were in a couple day and then print it out and give it to a couple bar owners that I know. Since then there have been many replies but now I would be embarrassed to share this thread with any of them. This topic took a real bad turn along the way - started out as a great thing and then went to shit very quickly!!!

Urbs

songsmith · Post by **songsmith** » Tuesday Apr 17, 2007

songsmith wrote:The smoking/no smoking thing is moot. Smokers will always say it's better to allow it, because they need to justify their own ugly addiction. (loads of blah-blah-blah) I'd love to never have smoke blown in my area ever again, but I'm realistic enough to understand that smokers don't care about other people.----->JMS

I continue to stand by every word. When's the last time you heard someone say, "I'd like to have a smoke, but there are a lot of other people here." Nicotine is powerfully addictive. Smokers either MUST rationalize their addiction (a normal response to an addiction, I do it), or feel guilt because of it. Nobody enjoys guilt, so they let their ego take care of it. The people who DO muster the fortitude to quit are usually those who are the most stubborn, those whose personalities are stronger than the lure of a cigarette. It's tough, man, but it pays. My parents both quit their 25-year, 2-pack-a-day habit cold turkey after an argument about how much money was being spent on smokes... they used the money to buy a bass boat. A really nice $25K bass boat. It adds up.

As an aside, I'd support earlier start times. Non-entertainment bars (you know, sports bars, karaoke joints,etc.) have been going strong early for years. Happy hour's the big draw... for some reason, upscale crowds need to go straight to the bar from work... I'm not sure folks are in the mood for a band at that point, but it's our job to make 'em "in the mood." Incidentally, the Hitching Post starts music at 7pm on Wednesdays, and crowds have been consistently good lately. There's a really good band there this Wednesday, as a matter of fact.

Anyway, since my career started, I've noticed first a trend toward later starts (in the mid-90's) and now toward earlier starts and shorter time onstage. I used to start at 10pm and go until 2am, usually 3 sets a bit over an hour long, and liberal breaks. Somewhere along the line, it shifted to 10-1:30, then 10-1am. I think due to PLCB aggression, bars need us out earlier to avoid getting cited. An earlier start would help that, and also, Smokey The Bear would have to stop drunk checkpoints, because they'd have to pull over 5000 little old ladies with shopping bags to get to the one drunk. It's win-win.------->JMS

VENTGtr · Post by **VENTGtr** » Tuesday Apr 17, 2007

A lot of places in State have bands at Happy Hours. Always seems to do well.

"for some reason, upscale crowds need to go straight to the bar from work..."

Not sure I'm upscale but I do love a good happy hour. Rarely get to them
nowadays, but am certainly a fan.

I'm also a big advocate of having bands at earlier times on weekdays.
Great idea.

DirtySanchez · Post by **DirtySanchez** » Tuesday Apr 17, 2007

Byndrsn,
Just print what you want from the thread.
You don't have to print the whole thing if you don't want.

Songsmith, Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but should I feel guilt because I smoke and do not want to quit? Because I will never feel guilty because someone doesn't agree with what I do. Especially if it is not illegal.

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Tuesday Apr 17, 2007

byndrsn wrote:I.

And - I would just like to bitch about something: When I first read this tread on Sunday night my first thought was that I was going to see how many more posts there were in a couple day and then print it out and give it to a couple bar owners that I know. Since then there have been many replies but now I would be embarrassed to share this thread with any of them. This topic took a real bad turn along the way - started out as a great thing and then went to shit very quickly!!!

Urbs

With all due respect, Tom, I wouldn't call Rockpage a representative sample of the average bar-goer and what the average bar-goer would like to see as improvements in the establishments. As a musician, I'd like clubs to have better electrical wiring, because it sucks having your rig buzzing like a bee, but I know that a club isn't going to drop a couple of grand into renovations just because I'd like to see it happen. Where's the increased revenue in that? That's why I didn't even bother mentioning it; I thought that it was a moot

point.

Again, as far as start times, it would be nice to get home at a decent hour, but I just don't see these 8 p.m. - 11 p.m. gig times working. I'm not trying to be a prick, but my band plays Pellegrine's on a Sunday every six to eight weeks. We play up until we can no longer legally play, haul our equipment out, wait for Harry to take care of us, and then rush home to get two and a half hours of sleep before waking back up to go to our day gigs (school in my case, which is about an hour and a half commute one-way). I know that Felix works construction, which is physically instensive to begin with, and I've never heard him complain about the Hurricane's start and stop times, and they gig like 3597 times a month.

Sorry, not trying to be a jerk with this post, just giving my two cents.

songsmith · Post by **songsmith** » Tuesday Apr 17, 2007

Do you feel guilt? Seems like you're protesting the loudest for a reason. I've pointed out just a few of the downsides to smoking, hell, I've purposefully left out the whole wasting, lingering death thing mostly, so... what's the upside to smoking? What are some of the benefits to a tobacco lifestyle? The bean downside is a lack of motivation, illegality, and ostracism from socially conservative society. The upside is the medicinal value, the psychoactive "enhancement," and the inclusion in the counterculture. What's the tobacco upside?--------->JMS

ToonaRockGuy · Post by **ToonaRockGuy** » Tuesday Apr 17, 2007

I say leave the band starting times where they are. Why? Go to Four Dees, go to City Limits, go to Pelly's on a Sunday. You can have a great band playing, first set fires off at 10PM sharp...when does everyone start to show up?

MIDNIGHT.

I never understood why someone would want to pay 5 bucks to see a band play one set. If I'm going to support a band, then godddammit, I want 3 full sets of entertainment for my money! I want to experience the entire show from start to finish.

And no offense to byndrsn, but dude, we all are worthless on Sundays after playing. If it's not fair to your family, then don't play. Nobody's holding a gun to your head making you do it. (Wait, where's Esa??) My wife knows that I'm gonna be sleeping until at least noon on a Sunday (I typically don't get back from a Scream show until anywhere from 6-8AM, depending on travel, with the exception of the County Line), and she deals with it. I travel a lot more now in this band than with any other band I've played with, and that's part of the price that you pay. I'm not going to ask the establishment to change to suit me. But, then again, that's just me.

As for the smoking thing, well, I'm a smoker. But most anyone that knows me will tell you that I'm a polite smoker. I don't smoke in my own home, I will not smoke in anyone's car unless given express permission to do so, and I try to be sensitive to non-smokers by holding my cigarette away from them and not blowing smoke at them. Hell, I don't like the way my clothes smell after a gig, but BDR is right: Washing machine! Works wonders.

DirtySanchez · Post by **DirtySanchez** » Tuesday Apr 17, 2007

If you want to play dinner music, there are plenty of places to play earlier.
If you wanna play Rock and party music, the party starts later.
Play to your demographic. Maybe some of you guys are just gettin a little old.

Hell J.P. said in the MushroomHead thread that he was dissapointed that it was over to soon at midnight. But at least half tempted was playing late so he had somewhere to go enjoy the rest of the night. You guys will cover music you don't like in the name of pleasing people, but won't stay out past ten? This is ROCK page right?

Starting to sound like easylisteningpage. I can almost smell the Flexall 454. Sorry if this thread doesn't meet some standards because I have a differing point of view.

HurricaneBob · Post by **HurricaneBob** » Tuesday Apr 17, 2007

How many ever played an 8am gig, we used to have one years ago at the Blue Moon. Complain about that start time.

Wev'e tried early gigs in the past but the people that show up late still want us to play. So a 8pm start time still went till 2am. Some weeknights it will work but weekends wont for the younger crowd.

Im old but can still give the young bucks super wedgies...

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Tuesday Apr 17, 2007

Damn Brian and Kevin, I agree with what both of your cats have just said. Geez, nobody said that being a gigging musician was easy. Smoke and 10:30 start times are the least of my stressors when I'm out playing a gig.

DirtySanchez · Post by **DirtySanchez** » Tuesday Apr 17, 2007

Upside to smoking:
I like it.

That tumbleweeds got tar and carcinogens too.

It's "healthy" for dying people.
So hopefully I'll keep smoking, and do so in a caring way of course.
Then when I'm dying of cancer, they'll prescribe some nugs and we'll burn one together.

I prefer Coca Beans.

songsmith · Post by **songsmith** » Tuesday Apr 17, 2007

DirtySanchez wrote:If you want to play dinner music, there are plenty of places to play earlier.
If you wanna play Rock and party music, the party starts later.
Play to your demographic. Maybe some of you guys are just gettin a little old. This is ROCK page right?

Starting to sound like easylisteningpage. I can almost smell the Flexall 454. Sorry if this thread doesn't meet some standards because I have a differing point of view.

Sanchez, your differing point of view is well-taken, I just enjoy some repartee that doesn't touch on one's favorite metal band. Generally, your posts are funny, or at least well-thought, and truth be told, we're probably a lot alike. Neither of us is afraid to make our point.
Oh, and I prefer Icy Hot. It makes my nads feel warm and cold at the same time.
I need to go sit in with a heavy band, to prove I still can. People equate bluegrass with Geritol. I have a little grey in my whiskers, but I'm 43, not 73.
Oh, and ToonaRock: I really have noticed that you are a polite smoker. Thanks, man! I'd rather see you quit, but the effort is much appreciated. I'd hang out with you all the time if you weren't a, you know, drummer.

---------->JMS

byndrsn · Post by **byndrsn** » Tuesday Apr 17, 2007

DirtySanchez wrote: Maybe some of you guys are just gettin a little old.

First off - BE NICE!!! I'm starting to resemble that remark!!

DirtySanchez wrote: You guys will cover music you don't like in the name of pleasing people, but won't stay out past ten?

This is also part of my point - I hear this same bitch from people that I am trying to get to come out and see us play, they would come out if we played at an earlier time. Maybe it is an age thing - I don't know. Maybe it even has something to do with the type of music. We play more classic rock and oldies than anything else - maybe our type of crowd would rather come out earlier and be home rubbing on the Ben Gay by 10:00pm. I can only speak for myself - I know I would rather be home earlier.

And Toona-Dude

that is why I said I might be getting out of this lifestyle. To me it is not acceptable that I am worthless for my family on a Sunday - whether my wife can deal with it or not. But, like you said, that is just me.

byndrsn · Post by **byndrsn** » Tuesday Apr 17, 2007

Hurricane wrote:How many ever played an 8am gig, we used to have one years ago at the Blue Moon. Complain about that start time.

Actually, that sounds like fun!!!!!

Hurricane wrote: Wev'e tried early gigs in the past but the people that show up late still want us to play. So a 8pm start time still went till 2am. Some weeknights it will work but weekends wont for the younger crowd.

Okay - that makes a lot of sense!!