Sonic Maximizer vs. EQ

[SpellboundByMetal]

I am very curious about the BBE 362 Sonic Maximizer. I read some reviews, and from what they said, this piece in a rack really helps for good sound.
Im a little confused on if an EQ would do the same thing.

Any help would be appreciated to clear up what exactly a sonic maximizer does.

[metalchurch]

I'm curious about this too.

Lonewolf..............you out there?

[onegunguitar]

I used to use a sonic maximizer w/ my 5150 a few years back. What it does-if I remember correctly from the manual, is that it delays the freq. a very small amount so that the frequencies hit the speaker cones at different times,all in all that helps clean up the sound. Yes,they do work,I always seemed to notice it being tighter and the low end not being as woofy.

[bassist_25]

I'm not an engineer so my description won't be as good as someone like Jeff's (Lonewolf), but in a nutshell, a Sonic Maximizer corrects speaker phasing so you are hearing the lows and highs at the same time instead of at different time intervals which is why some PA systems and guitar/bass rigs sound muddy. With that said, I have an onboard SM built into my preamp (I use a BBE Bmax). Someone once told me that a SM makes cheaper speakers sound good, but its effect is minimal with higher quality speakers. I've found that to be true in my experience. When I was using an Avatar cabinet, the Sonic Maximizer definitely improved the overall tone coming out of the speakers. With my Aguilars and Eden, it actually works against the cabs; or at least it does to my ears. A Sonic Maximizer is probably almost mandatory in a pro PA system, but I think it's more important to have quality speakers with guitar and bass rigs rather than a lot of outboard processing to fix instrinsic problems with other pieces of gear. Also with that said, old sKool's picking up a used SM to throw in his practice rack with his ADA preamp and Lee Jackson power amp, so it will be interesting to see how it affects his sound.

[onegunguitar]

Here's the link for the owners manual for the 362. It's a pdf file,but it explains "how"it works.
http://www.bbesound.com/support/index.asp

[SpellboundByMetal]

Thanks guys!

[Killjingle]

one thing I have learned...

a SM can take good tone and make it better, especially in a 1 guitar metal band situation...

it also can hide u in the mix, because all of a sudden your pushing the wrong frequencies to "cut"

lots of low end crunch is cool, but ideally thats the bassist's realm to cover... its easy to get caught up in "ultra heavy bedroom tone"

however; u will dig this rack piece Keith... they are worth the money

[Charltor]

I use the 362 in my setup in the effects loop. It does help tighten up your over all sound and clean up the mud.. It works well with tube and solid state. For a hundred bux it's a great little piece of gear that helps immensely. They also have a pedal version called the Sonic Stomp.

[SpellboundByMetal]

I was gonna get the 362 rackmount

[Killjingle]

if I am not mistaken they offer the rackmount nowadays in balanced and unbalanced in and outs

[bassist_25]

There's a couple of rackmount versions, including a stereo version, I believe.

[lonewolf]

The balanced versions cost more than twice as much. Most guitar rack products do not have balanced I/O or FX loops. If the preamp has unbalanced FX loop I/O or main outputs, it won't do any good to get the balanced version of the sonic maximizer.

The Aphex Aural Exciter with Big Bottom crushes the BBE 362 underfoot and utterly destroys it. This is an understatement, but I don't think it would make that much difference in a guitar rig.

[Killjingle]

Aphex Aural Exciter does wonders for a kick drum, bass, low end in general. We used one of these in my buddy Colin's rig. Holy crap the low end they can put into a PA if used correctly.

I really dont like the idea of adding too much low end to a metal rig. I think in the end most guys will regret it. Very few, if any of our fav metal musicians have that sort of tone.

I have studied this for a long time. That low end guitar rumble u hear in the basement or bedroom only muddies up a good FOH PA mix. Its cool to hear the lion roar, but it isnt supposed to shake your house... thats the elephants job.

I will personally guarantee its the reason why most metal local recordings sound local, (other than compression and gating.) I fall into this trap too guys. All the time. "If you want heavy crank up the low on your rig" I still do this when we play out. And I catch myself doing it and I back it right back off. I wont disagree that the SM will make a rig sound fuller, I just say use extreme caution what u are asking this piece of gear to do for a metal rig.

[metalchurch]

Chad, I've found myself rolling back my low end quite a bit too lately, it just isn't needed, and that is what the bass is for. The guitar has to be defined enough to cut through the mix or the overall sound will be muddy and cluttered. Of course my living room has different acoustics than a bar or other venues, but I'm just trying to get myself into the routine of not relying on the lows too much. I actually have been bumping my low-mids up and rolling off my highs, and using the presence to add some definition. I am curious to see what a sonic would do but, I think I would rather use my money for something else.

[SpellboundByMetal]

I DONT JUST PLAY METAL.

[lonewolf]

I won't say that a sonic maximizer won't help a guitar rig, but I'd like to point something out that may not be so apparent.

Guitar speakers only reproduce part of 2 (low & mid) of the 3 frequency ranges (low, mid, high) that are processed by the BBE.

Guitar speakers only reproduce part of one of the two frequency ranges that the BBE augments.

[bassist_25]

I have studied this for a long time. That low end guitar rumble u hear in the basement or bedroom only muddies up a good FOH PA mix. Its cool to hear the lion roar, but it isnt supposed to shake your house... thats the elephants job.

Chad, I've found myself rolling back my low end quite a bit too lately, it just isn't needed, and that is what the bass is for. The guitar has to be defined enough to cut through the mix or the overall sound will be muddy and cluttered.

Chad for President of the Universe and Joe for Vice President!

I was going to go on a rant about how I hate the scooped guitar sound with a passion, but I think everyone here already knows how much I dislike that sound.

[metalchurch]

Mids are the key! Most times when the mids are scooped out, the guitars don't cut through and sound like crap, because of the high end that alot of people put in to substitute for having too much low end. Bump the mids up and roll off the high end, it will sound much better.

-Vice President Joe

[Killjingle]

I DONT JUST PLAY METAL EITHER.

The presence, distortion on an amp, the pickups you select, the way you attack your guitar will all have huge impacts on what sound comes out of your rig.

And no genre of music you play is gonna sound good with the mids jacked way down. I went to my brothers apt once; he turned his stereo on with his dual 15 band EQ with the smiley faces on both stereo channels, and asked me what I thought of the CD he was playing. I got up, turned the eq off, rolled the bass off of his Technics 100 watt receiver, and proceeded to tell him it was freaking awesome, especially the way it was originally mastered.

I think he had the eq still set up the way I used to have it set, when I gave it to him. LOL.

[nighthawk]

i have one you can check out sometime if you like. just drop me a line sometime and i will see if i can come out to one of your practices or something along that line sometime. mabie do a little jamming. i dont use it in my guitar rig anymore. im using it for the pa but i can yank it so you can see what you think.

[stratobastard27]

I like the 362. It's a very useful piece of gear. It has been stated, and I've found to be true, it works wonders on lower end gear. Once you start spending serious money on a PA, you'll find that you dislike it more and more. I also had used it on my guitar rig for a while. I really really liked it. (I use a PODxt live running into the fx return of a L6 flextone II). Would insert it between the two pieces. Then, all of a sudden, whether it was something that happened to my hearing or a malfunction of the unit, it just started sounding like shit. Unbelievably bright, and no mids at all, almost at any setting. So now I use it on the monitor mixes, and in addition to a bit of eq, we very rarely have any feedback. The two controls are very much intertwined with one another. I would also HIGHLY recommend the Peavey Kosmos on the cheap PA! It performs basically the same functions of the BBE, but with many more controls. Improves stereo separation, and adds a TON of low end. It has some type of sub-octave generator, which can be really awesome or really annoying, depending on you point of view. This control can be dialed out, however. Gotta watch the proximity effect on your vocals, or you'll end up singing in Satanophonic. It also has a built in summed-to-mono sub out. It's set for good at 90hz, which is a bit lower than I'd like, but WTF. Check this unit out!

[LHSL]

A Sonic Maximizer is probably almost mandatory in a pro PA system, but I think it's more important to have quality speakers with guitar and bass rigs rather than a lot of outboard processing to fix instrinsic problems with other pieces of gear. Also with that said, old sKool's picking up a used SM to throw in his practice rack with his ADA preamp and Lee Jackson power amp, so it will be interesting to see how it affects his sound.

Let me tell you... they are most definitely NOT mandatory in a pro PA system. In fact, I don't know one single pro sound/production company that would even consider using one in their racks. They are typically scoffed at. For PA use, it's 99.99% snake oil.

Now, does it do something? Yes. It does change the sound. This may or may not be a desired effect in a guitar/bass/keyboard rig. My recommendation to anyone considering one of these for their band PA is to save their money and put it towards better quality tops. Speakers are the SINGLE most impressive upgrade you can make to any sound system.

[DATASOUND]

Let me tell you... they are most definitely NOT mandatory in a pro PA system. In fact, I don't know one single pro sound/production company that would even consider using one in their racks. They are typically scoffed at. For PA use, it's 99.99% snake oil.

Now, does it do something? Yes. It does change the sound. This may or may not be a desired effect in a guitar/bass/keyboard rig. My recommendation to anyone considering one of these for their band PA is to save their money and put it towards better quality tops. Speakers are the SINGLE most impressive upgrade you can make to any sound system.

I second this motion.

[BloodyFingers]

I use the BBe Sm in my computer for mixing. I like it better than a eq in some aspects. I use use it as a eq. I like frequ blend that it does. I am looking to buy a used rack mount BBE. I would not go wild with it. I have experemented with and you can kill the track if your not careful. Soo guys keep it rockin. I do have a graf that I would trade for a BBE if your looking for a rackmount graf. It is stereo and 15 bands per side, with FBQ, range, low cut, and front gain ajustments. I realy don't use it much and it's only a couple months old. later guys

PS if you would like to hear some of my mixes email me.