I wanted to get some opinions about the use of Agencies to get shows..
Is it worth the comission rates. I know that it is nearly impossible to get into certain clubs in this area without them.
What do you think?
Booking 'Agents'
David Letterman is quoted as saying that an agent is something you scrape from your shoes after a Mets game. I'm not saying I agree with that but I did offer up the quote so what does THAT say....
We've had three...well 2 and half, two we fired and the half a one is in Jail now..
One should be careful with agents, My advice is Make damn sure you can trust this person, We've had to get rid of a snake or two over the years. Be wary of exclusive agreements that could tie your hands and prevent you from pursuing opportunities, Anyone asking more than 12.5% is stealing from you unless they are getting you into Madison Square Garden or the like, even then.
Make sure the agent is somehow accountable to you, not the other way around the last seriuos agent we had lumped us in with 46 other bands and maybe we got gigs from him once every quarter, then he wanted us to cancel dates WE booked in favor of his gigs. I don't think so.
If you can find someone who A. you can trust. B. doesn't just see you as another meal ticket but actually believes in what you are doing, C. has the juice you need to get the plumb gigs and D. isn't charging you body parts for the service, go for it, but Caveat Emptor (Let the buyer Beware)
If we could find somebody who meets those last 3 qualifications and is reputable, I'd sign with an agent tommorrow, meanwhile, beware of cowboys and bar drunks and don't sign ANYTHING until you've seen some proof of the product.
Just my 2 cents
We've had three...well 2 and half, two we fired and the half a one is in Jail now..
One should be careful with agents, My advice is Make damn sure you can trust this person, We've had to get rid of a snake or two over the years. Be wary of exclusive agreements that could tie your hands and prevent you from pursuing opportunities, Anyone asking more than 12.5% is stealing from you unless they are getting you into Madison Square Garden or the like, even then.
Make sure the agent is somehow accountable to you, not the other way around the last seriuos agent we had lumped us in with 46 other bands and maybe we got gigs from him once every quarter, then he wanted us to cancel dates WE booked in favor of his gigs. I don't think so.
If you can find someone who A. you can trust. B. doesn't just see you as another meal ticket but actually believes in what you are doing, C. has the juice you need to get the plumb gigs and D. isn't charging you body parts for the service, go for it, but Caveat Emptor (Let the buyer Beware)
If we could find somebody who meets those last 3 qualifications and is reputable, I'd sign with an agent tommorrow, meanwhile, beware of cowboys and bar drunks and don't sign ANYTHING until you've seen some proof of the product.
Just my 2 cents
Blooz to Youz
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lonewolf
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Pegasus Productions--if they still do business in PA. The owner ran off to Florida, but his brother kept an office here in PA. If I ever see that fat phuck again, I might just have to help him with his weight problem. Liquid diets are good for that.
Last edited by lonewolf on Wednesday Jan 24, 2007, edited 1 time in total.
...Oh, the freedom of the day that yielded to no rule or time...
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ToonaRockGuy
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- Location: Altoona, behind a drumset.
Have dealt with many over the years! All I can say is YIKES!!!
i.e. Not many have been good experiences. There are a few legitimate
ones around, but face it THEY ARE IN IT FOR THE $$$$$ , not for the interest of the bands/artists. It is a business situation for them plain and simple. They are salesmen, and like most salesmen they work on commission.
JMHO
i.e. Not many have been good experiences. There are a few legitimate
ones around, but face it THEY ARE IN IT FOR THE $$$$$ , not for the interest of the bands/artists. It is a business situation for them plain and simple. They are salesmen, and like most salesmen they work on commission.
JMHO
Good Thread! Really Good.
For the last 3 years ive been booking bands from all over with Prmate-Studios. I started booking them at Surf N Skate in Du Bois and about 6 months ago i started doing shows all over. As far as the whole $$$ thing. If i show up to a show and theres 60 people and it was a 5 hour drive. The bands get all the cash, I always make sure i got enough cash to get back home. For myself and a few others that tag along for shows its about having fun. But for bands, They need gas money at the very least. I never walk into a show and expect to get money. Because at the very most i just have to haul a PA.
But ive also seen that alot of the 'Booking Agencys' and 'Promoters' in PA dont run the same way.
For the last 3 years ive been booking bands from all over with Prmate-Studios. I started booking them at Surf N Skate in Du Bois and about 6 months ago i started doing shows all over. As far as the whole $$$ thing. If i show up to a show and theres 60 people and it was a 5 hour drive. The bands get all the cash, I always make sure i got enough cash to get back home. For myself and a few others that tag along for shows its about having fun. But for bands, They need gas money at the very least. I never walk into a show and expect to get money. Because at the very most i just have to haul a PA.
But ive also seen that alot of the 'Booking Agencys' and 'Promoters' in PA dont run the same way.
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ToonaRockGuy
- Diamond Member
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- Joined: Tuesday Dec 17, 2002
- Location: Altoona, behind a drumset.
Just make note of Gross Vs Net with regard to the cut ... It is KEY
As for Pegasus, I have never had a problem with Bob K... I was affiliated with him last summer for a bit. He knows how to make a nice chunk of money for your band!!! And put you in really good rooms... Plain and simple -He's an agent, love them or hate them it's all about the coin when you deal with them.
If you look really cool in your black ballcrushers and make $1500 a night, your set without an agent, but if you have one and can make $1600 dressed up like a giraffe with a flute hanging out of your ass playing God knows what... Well lube up because a good agent just picked up on a $100 profit and you will probally have to buy the costume yourself as stated in your contract!
Take it for what its worth...
Agents = Money
And its either yours or theirs... per the contract binding you
Be Careful
-BURK
www.myspace.com/lowjackmusic
www.lowjackmusic.com
As for Pegasus, I have never had a problem with Bob K... I was affiliated with him last summer for a bit. He knows how to make a nice chunk of money for your band!!! And put you in really good rooms... Plain and simple -He's an agent, love them or hate them it's all about the coin when you deal with them.
If you look really cool in your black ballcrushers and make $1500 a night, your set without an agent, but if you have one and can make $1600 dressed up like a giraffe with a flute hanging out of your ass playing God knows what... Well lube up because a good agent just picked up on a $100 profit and you will probally have to buy the costume yourself as stated in your contract!
Take it for what its worth...
Agents = Money
And its either yours or theirs... per the contract binding you
Be Careful
-BURK
www.myspace.com/lowjackmusic
www.lowjackmusic.com
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ToonaRockGuy
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- Location: Altoona, behind a drumset.
I only posted my warning about Pegasus with regard to what happened with Badwrench/Wrench/Stept On years ago. Also, when I was with Gin & Juice, we played Four Dees all summer long, because Bob wouldn't let Backstreet Law away from Florida to play their bookings at The Dees. We played a whole summer there on BSL's dates. I know that Dees management was pretty pissed off at Bob for that one.
Dood...
Yeah I've heard a lot of similar stories myself... I have just never had a problem with them personally... I think that everybody should be careful when dealing with any of them. No Worries...ToonaRockGuy wrote:I only posted my warning about Pegasus with regard to what happened with Badwrench/Wrench/Stept On years ago. Also, when I was with Gin & Juice, we played Four Dees all summer long, because Bob wouldn't let Backstreet Law away from Florida to play their bookings at The Dees. We played a whole summer there on BSL's dates. I know that Dees management was pretty pissed off at Bob for that one.
-BURK
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lonewolf
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This wasn't for a band, it was a national act promo/business deal where he pocketed thousands in ticket money that we were supposed to split 50/50. I never saw him again and 12 years later, I don't want to because you can go to jail for that kind of behaviour.LOWJACK_BURK wrote:As for Pegasus, I have never had a problem with Bob K... I was affiliated with him last summer for a bit. He knows how to make a nice chunk of money for your band!!!
...Oh, the freedom of the day that yielded to no rule or time...
When I was "on the road" years ago, we always used an agent or agency.
They kept our band busy, but often the routing was horrible (i.e play here
and then drive 5-6 hours away for the next nights' show with little sleep). Also, we often ran into making "deals" for accomadations (motel rooms, etc.) as part of our pay for the shows. More often than not, these rooms ended up being rat holes. I often felt we were ripped off. Occasionally, we'd show up expecting to have rooms only to find out we didn't. This was always fun (bullshit) when we suddenly had to locate rooms for the night (at the last minute) and try to show up for the gig on time. Nothing like playing shows when you're pissed off. Sometimes this was good for energy on stage, but often it wasn't. The agent still got his fee based on
the gross (gig/rooms/etc. included). The one good thing was that we got
to play alot of nice rooms/shows. I enjoyed "the road" for the most part
with the exception of these types of incidents. As most of us will state
"just beware of who you deal with, and what you sign". Fact is that it is
common, and all part of the business.
They kept our band busy, but often the routing was horrible (i.e play here
and then drive 5-6 hours away for the next nights' show with little sleep). Also, we often ran into making "deals" for accomadations (motel rooms, etc.) as part of our pay for the shows. More often than not, these rooms ended up being rat holes. I often felt we were ripped off. Occasionally, we'd show up expecting to have rooms only to find out we didn't. This was always fun (bullshit) when we suddenly had to locate rooms for the night (at the last minute) and try to show up for the gig on time. Nothing like playing shows when you're pissed off. Sometimes this was good for energy on stage, but often it wasn't. The agent still got his fee based on
the gross (gig/rooms/etc. included). The one good thing was that we got
to play alot of nice rooms/shows. I enjoyed "the road" for the most part
with the exception of these types of incidents. As most of us will state
"just beware of who you deal with, and what you sign". Fact is that it is
common, and all part of the business.
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bassist_25
- Senior Member
- Posts: 6815
- Joined: Monday Dec 09, 2002
- Location: Indiana
Personally, I'm very cautious if I'm in a newer band or one who has not really built a strong following yet and I get approached by a booking agent. Most legitimate agencies want you to "prove" that you can be a marketable commodity before they'll take a serious look at you.
I think that all of us get approached at one time or another by the cowboy/bar drunk that Vinny was talking about. Rob usually just tells these guys to check the website for the phone number and give him a call. They of course never call, but it's a quick way to get rid of them during set break without being an asshole. A close cousin to the drunk wannabe booking agent is the the drunk wannabe A&R guy, who even though he's hanging out in a small bar in Central PA, he has "major connections" to industry people in LA/New York/Nashville/Austin/etc. It's even funnier when you're in a cover band and these guys approach you.
I remember getting approached about two years ago by one of these fly-by-night booking agents while playing a gig at Davey's. WTF is a booking agent doing scouting talent in Hastings? I mean seriously!
I think that all of us get approached at one time or another by the cowboy/bar drunk that Vinny was talking about. Rob usually just tells these guys to check the website for the phone number and give him a call. They of course never call, but it's a quick way to get rid of them during set break without being an asshole. A close cousin to the drunk wannabe booking agent is the the drunk wannabe A&R guy, who even though he's hanging out in a small bar in Central PA, he has "major connections" to industry people in LA/New York/Nashville/Austin/etc. It's even funnier when you're in a cover band and these guys approach you.
I remember getting approached about two years ago by one of these fly-by-night booking agents while playing a gig at Davey's. WTF is a booking agent doing scouting talent in Hastings? I mean seriously!
"He's the electric horseman, you better back off!" - old sKool making a reference to the culturally relevant 1979 film.
I have always done my own bookings for all the bands I have been in (even though booking the band takes lots of work and it is not fun) but I would rather know what deal I make. Over the years, I have been approached by several booking agencies to work for them part time and book bands on their rosters as well as my own band but I politely declined and said thanks, but no thanks. I used to tell them that it is hard enough to book your own band let alone book many other bands.
I have only worked with a few booking agencies from Pittsburgh, Harrisburg, and central PA over the years for select gigs and never signed a band to an exclusive deal with any of them. That way, I could pick and choose the prime gigs that they may offer if the money was at least the same or more than I could get for a gig after they took their cut and if we wanted to travel or play a specific venue. This also helped on a couple occasions to get a last minute gig if we had an open date. I would get calls from large, reputable agencies frequently who wanted to book one band I was in but the offers were not good enough for us to be interested.
We might have played 3 or 4 gigs a year through an agency out of 85 to 100 gigs in a year back in the late 70's through the late 80's. We got some nice gigs this way that I could not get because of connection issues or the agency had an exclusive deal with a venue.
The problem was that many times the payment check was made out to the agency and sent directly to them and we would have to wait to get paid 4 to 6 weeks after the gig or chase the agency for payment. The other problem was that instead of the venue paying us our portion and sending the agency their portion, they would give me the entire amount and then I would have to pay the agency their cut.
If you want to consider an agency, check them out. Check the venues they book. Ask some of the bands they have about them. Ask what percentage they take. Find out what their marketing and promotions are and do they require payment for these services in addition to their other fees. Ask what can, and will, they do for your band that you can't do yourself, etc.
I have only worked with a few booking agencies from Pittsburgh, Harrisburg, and central PA over the years for select gigs and never signed a band to an exclusive deal with any of them. That way, I could pick and choose the prime gigs that they may offer if the money was at least the same or more than I could get for a gig after they took their cut and if we wanted to travel or play a specific venue. This also helped on a couple occasions to get a last minute gig if we had an open date. I would get calls from large, reputable agencies frequently who wanted to book one band I was in but the offers were not good enough for us to be interested.
We might have played 3 or 4 gigs a year through an agency out of 85 to 100 gigs in a year back in the late 70's through the late 80's. We got some nice gigs this way that I could not get because of connection issues or the agency had an exclusive deal with a venue.
The problem was that many times the payment check was made out to the agency and sent directly to them and we would have to wait to get paid 4 to 6 weeks after the gig or chase the agency for payment. The other problem was that instead of the venue paying us our portion and sending the agency their portion, they would give me the entire amount and then I would have to pay the agency their cut.
If you want to consider an agency, check them out. Check the venues they book. Ask some of the bands they have about them. Ask what percentage they take. Find out what their marketing and promotions are and do they require payment for these services in addition to their other fees. Ask what can, and will, they do for your band that you can't do yourself, etc.
Anyone ever hear the term "contracts are made to be broken"?
This happens with agencies as well sometimes. Let's face it, most bands
(at least locally) don't have legal representation to help them in these
cases, so they get hosed. Most legitimate/larger agencies have an attorney(s) to represent them. This leaves most bands without any recourse except to bend over and take it in the tailpipe.
This happens with agencies as well sometimes. Let's face it, most bands
(at least locally) don't have legal representation to help them in these
cases, so they get hosed. Most legitimate/larger agencies have an attorney(s) to represent them. This leaves most bands without any recourse except to bend over and take it in the tailpipe.
So so true. Even experienced bands get a glimmer in their eyes when the word "contract" comes up. But you always have to view it from the perspective of "what's in it for us".moxham123 wrote:If you want to consider an agency, check them out. Check the venues they book. Ask some of the bands they have about them. Ask what percentage they take. Find out what their marketing and promotions are and do they require payment for these services in addition to their other fees. Ask what can, and will, they do for your band that you can't do yourself, etc.
I've seen a standard contract from a large, reputable booking agency in Pennsylvania (their name has already come up in this thread). It's terrifying: two pages listing the band's obligations to the agency but not ONE WORD of what the agency agreed to provide for the band. It's a strictly one-way deal, musical slavery if you will. And of course the band in question signed it as is.
The best relationships my bands have had with booking agents have been informal ones. A gig here, a gig there, a few extra bucks in someone's pockets, a fresh venue for the band.
I can see a legitimate use for the agents, though. Many organizations and establishments seeking entertainment don't really know who to call, or what's available. Clubs don't always have the time or initiative to sort out the dozens of individuals playing phone tag with them to try to book their bands. Bands lack the resources to take advantage of every possible gig opportunity.
I always wondered what happened to Wrench/Stept On. What went down??ToonaRockGuy wrote:I only posted my warning about Pegasus with regard to what happened with Badwrench/Wrench/Stept On years ago. Also, when I was with Gin & Juice, we played Four Dees all summer long, because Bob wouldn't let Backstreet Law away from Florida to play their bookings at The Dees. We played a whole summer there on BSL's dates. I know that Dees management was pretty pissed off at Bob for that one.
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RobTheDrummer
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As far as I know, Matt booked some shows himself and Bob got all pissed and wanted a cut even though Bob didn't book them. As far as Bob is concerned, he owns the bands. The way I look at it, if he gets you the gigs, you pay him. If he doesn't then fuck him. I'm sure Matt or Adam could tell you much more of what went down.
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Mistress_DB
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That's sad Rob. Unfortunately that's usually how it goes. Jimi mentioned earlier how some guys get that little glimmer in their eyes at the mention of a "contract" and they really don't pay attention to what it is they're signing. And I understand the glimmer part, I really do. Alot of bands work for years trying to get that one big break. Along comes a seemingly professional booking agency who's interested in their band and suddenly everybody is seeing stars on Hollywood blvd. It all comes down to reading all the fine print and asking alot of questions. If you don't, you could be just signing your soul to the devil.
The person below me enjoys a good spanking.
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robsottile
- Active Member
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Sunday Feb 09, 2003
- Location: Carrolltown, PA
My band had worked with Pegusus for almost two years. We never had any major problems and I had didn't mine giving a percentage to the agency. For the most part ,we were put into some very cool rooms and we made a good amount of cash. He had sent the contract twice, but we had voted against signing it both times. We just heard nothing but bad stories, from top name cover bands at the time... Also, out of 10 gigs a month, 5 would be from "Pre Agency" bars that we had booked on our own, but we would still have to give a percentage... There's lots more to the contract that we didn't care for, but I won't get into that... We still debate on the pros and cons of it and whether we should have signed the contract. There are rooms that we had played once a month for over a year that will not book us now, because we're not with the 'Agency " now... And there are still venue's that turn us down, because they will only book thru and agency. I don't know...?