Four piece band

[yodelinghippie]

Our lead guitarist recently moved on to bigger and better things, and I wish him the best. So we are going from a 5-piece to a 4-piece band. I was the rhythym guitarist, and i have decided to take over both parts. Is there any tips anyone can share about playing with one guitarist, or picking songs for just one guitarist? Im a developing, but decent, guitarist... but ive never played with just one guitarist before. Any ideas or tips?

[Merge]

When Merge was a full band in not in the market for new members, we were a 4 piece. I'm the guitarist, and I actually prefer the one guitar sound. My advice is don't let the lack of a second guitar stop you from trying a new song. If you rehearse it and it doesn't work, don't play it live. Also, you can work on some new arragements for older songs that can be really interesting. When you are rehearsing, don't be afraid to throw in some single note fills and octave harmonies. Things like that will really make your playing stand out in the mix. Go to youtube and search for anything live that features Mark Tremonti, and anything live from Disturbed. Both Dan Donegan (Disturbed) and Tremonti really know what they are doing in a one guitar setting.

[bassist_25]

I have found that playing with a single guitarist presents many challenges, but it can be very rewarding. There are a few things I've learned along the way.

1. The first and most obvious is to be able to pick the right songs. The Thin Lizzy and Iron Maiden probably aren't good choices. Sometimes you may have to do rearrangements of songs. Songs with a lot of production usually aren't good choices. When listening to material, consciously think, "Will we be able to do a respectable job of this live?"

2. A big drum sound and a big bass sound are a must. The drum and bass parts are most likely going to have to be a little bit more busy than on the record. I know that I find myself playing extra runs and bass parts that aren't really in the original recording, especially when it comes to laying down something under a solo. Playing more busy doesn't mean more wanky. Actually, I find that playing with a single guitarist forces you to be more tasteful with your note choices. Check out Jeff Clapper and Bobby Watters of the Hurricanes for an example. They pull stuff off three piece that I never thought would be possible.

3. You may have to approach your guitar playing a little bit differently. You may have to really think about your chord voicings and find chords that sound huge by themselves. I've noticed many guitarists that play in single guitar bands don't use a whole lot of barre chords. They seem to use very well-voiced big open chords. Depending on what style of music you're doing, you may be able to take a "Chet Atkins" approach by playing melodies underneath your own chordal playing. Check out Brian Cupples for an example of this. He's the most underrated guitarist around here, IMHO.

4. Seriously think about your tone. If you're using effects, think of how you're going to run your patches, and be dead on with the pedals. Don't scoop your mids (You knew I'd say that in this post, didn't cha ) to try and fill out the sound. The rythmn section will take care of that. Some people may disagree with me on this, but it's just my opinion. There's no hard or fast rules on what rig to use, but I generally don't like Marshalls in single guitar bands. Then sound too nasally and thin to my ears. Though if you want that Marshall sound, I'd suggest a Bogner; because they're like a Marshall on steriods (the Carvin Legacy series amps also comes to mind too). I like Fenders for more bluesy and mellow tones. Of course, my love of all things Mesa is well-documented. I'm not saying you have to buy a new rig, but what you use and how you use it is going to be very important.

5. If you're running a full PA, a sound guy who really knows what he's doing can make you sound full. I've always said that Zilly at City Limits has the ability to make a three piece band sound five piece.

These are just some things that I've found out through experience. We have a lot of killer single guitar bands around here, so I'm sure you'll get a lot of good advice from people. I also suspect that my good friend Kent will be by shortly to proclaim the greatness of the single guitar band.

[Merge]

That is good advice, bassist_25. I didn't even think about the rig of a guitarist in a 1 guitar band. I'm not a fan of Marshall's either, and I'm a big fan of the Mesa sound. Bogner is a great amp, but it's pricey. I think a little delay is good for the clean sound, but I'm not a fan of it in the dirty sound. I'll sometimes use chorus in my dirty sound, but not a lot of of it. I'd suggest just messing around with things during rehearsal and on your own time, and I'm sure you'll find things that work for you.

[Banned]

You might want to load up on lead guitar riffs that use more than one string. That'll give you a full sound when you go off on a lead break. There are so many options that you can play lead all night without ever playing single note lines.

Some things that come to mind:

- octaves
- unison bends
- playing against an open drone string
- playing against a fretted pedal tone
- most anything from the Chuck Berry school
- the standard sliding fifth and sliding sixth licks
- patterns of thirds (many guys pick this up from Talk Dirty To Me )
- multi-string bends (a la Albert King/SRV)

Bonuses of this style: These licks are generally much easier to master than shreddy single-note licks. And when you do break into single-note lines, they'll sound that much more distinctive in contrast.

[grimmbass]

Unless you're in an Iron Maiden or Lyrnrd Skynrd Tribute Band, lack of a second guitar is not a problem. A competent bassist and drummer can make a wall of sound behind just about anything you want to play...and alternative arrangements can do the trick really well.

Lies, Inc. covers a LOT of two guitar songs; the lack of a second guitar simply means that I'm playing a lot more. Many guitar parts can be emulated on the high end of a bass; I'll bet that most people don't notice the lack of a second guitar when we play "So Cold" by Breaking Ben because Dax and I revised our parts to work with a shared bass/guitar arrangement.

There are/have been plenty of one-guitar bands that don't/didn't rely on sampled rhythm tracks live, including: Tool, U2, Living Color, King's X (although they have a TON of studio tracking), Led Zepplin (again, lots of studio tracking absent live), Pantera, and Killing Joke.

A one-guitar band is not an inherent limitation, but a license for ALL instruments to step out a bit more. Given a choice, I'd rather be in a one-guitar outfit.

[bassist_25]

Haha, I told you that Kent would be by to discuss the awesomeness of a single guitar.

I agree with Jimi about octave riffs. I've noticed that a lot of the new poppy rock bands use those types of riffs (My Own Worst Enemy by Lit comes to mind), and I think that they really make a melody line sound big without being too ostentacious and crowded.

[Merge]

I've played guitar for 20 years, and this is some of the best advice I've seen. It was kind of sink or swim for me when I started playing in a one guitar band. I agree with grimmbass, as I too would rather play in a one guitar line up. As yodelinghippie said, he is a developing but decent guitarist. This will almost force him to become a better musician. It might seem difficult at first, but as time goes on and you develop more skill, things will get easier.

[SpellboundByMetal]

'End of The Sun' only has 1 guitarist. Thats Me uh oh. Its not metal either. Most of the time, ive played with another guitarist, but its been pretty cool being the only one.

[Punkinhead]

Unless you're in an Iron Maiden or Lyrnrd Skynrd Tribute Band, lack of a second guitar is not a problem. A competent bassist and drummer can make a wall of sound behind just about anything you want to play...and alternative arrangements can do the trick really well.

Lies, Inc. covers a LOT of two guitar songs; the lack of a second guitar simply means that I'm playing a lot more. Many guitar parts can be emulated on the high end of a bass; I'll bet that most people don't notice the lack of a second guitar when we play "So Cold" by Breaking Ben because Dax and I revised our parts to work with a shared bass/guitar arrangement.

There are/have been plenty of one-guitar bands that don't/didn't rely on sampled rhythm tracks live, including: Tool, U2, Living Color, King's X (although they have a TON of studio tracking), Led Zepplin (again, lots of studio tracking absent live), Pantera, and Killing Joke.

A one-guitar band is not an inherent limitation, but a license for ALL instruments to step out a bit more. Given a choice, I'd rather be in a one-guitar outfit.

I couldn't agree with that post more. My last couple bands where one guitar bands and it allowed much more space for the bass and drums (especially the bass). You can do songs from bands Iron Maiden too, you just need a good harmonizer for some parts and have to be a little more selective about it.

[MeYatch]

In addition to beefing up your solo style, you may want to thin out your rhythm playing. I don't think there's much music that sounds bad with one guitar, the main problem is the difference between rhythm playing and lead playing. Anything that you can do to minimize the difference is helpful.

[bassist_25]

I've noticed that a lot of recordings that feature two guitars aren't really mixed like two guitar bands. It's just one big wall of guitar, which IMO defeats the purpose of having two guitarists.

Punkinhead, what harmonizer do you use? I've heard that the Eventides are a bit user unfriendly, but they sound fantastic.

[Punkinhead]

I've noticed that a lot of recordings that feature two guitars aren't really mixed like two guitar bands. It's just one big wall of guitar, which IMO defeats the purpose of having two guitarists.

Punkinhead, what harmonizer do you use? I've heard that the Eventides are a bit user unfriendly, but they sound fantastic.

I've used an Eventide before, it belonged to a friend of mine and was awesome. I used to use the Boss Super Shifter when I was on a pedal kick but, now I use the TC Electronic G-Major (I am on a rack kick now...lol). It's harmonizer isn't the greatest but, it's good enough to pull off all of the harmonized stuff that I want to play.

[RobTheDrummer]

You'll begin to prefer one guitarist. Tends to lead to a cleaner and tighter sounding band. Fullness should come from the bass, drums, and spankin' guitar. You gotta have a great guitarist to pull it off and have a lot of material though.

[mjb]

Cream reunion 2005. listen to that or its also on dvd. jack bruce is fucking awesome. clapton and ginger aren't slouches either. its a real big sound. three masters, what can you say. the ultimate 3-piece. bar none. talk about tight!

[onegunguitar]

One thing I always liked about being the only guitar was the freedom. I would use alot of fills in between chord changes in the lines of the old Van Halen style,it was alot of fun.But,on the other side,having 2 guitars( when playing in a metal band) adds alot of thickness and depth. I really don't mind either way as long as it sounds good.

[SpellboundByMetal]

True.

[Punkinhead]

One thing I always liked about being the only guitar was the freedom. I would use alot of fills in between chord changes in the lines of the old Van Halen style,it was alot of fun.But,on the other side,having 2 guitars( when playing in a metal band) adds alot of thickness and depth. I really don't mind either way as long as it sounds good.

Yeah, I agree. I've seen 2 guitar bands that made the most out of it and some that blew ass. Same with one guitar bands...As long as it sounds good, whatever.

[VENTGtr]

Great advice here already. I guess I'd just concur with everything and
say get the bass player to use octaves when you're doing lead stuff,
possibly have them pick up riffs in the octave range of the guitar when
you need to be doing "chord" stuff, and the drummer can use their
symbals to add mid-rangey "stuff" to fill some space.

Also, be creative with chord voicings. Look around for places to use
sus2nds, for example, especially where it'll allow open strings (A=x02200).

If I have an "F" some place, I'll often go with an FMaj7 (x03210) to
allow the open E, where I have an E that might be at the 7th fret I'll
go with an E at the 2nd (xx2454. I call this an Alex Lifeson chord.
He uses these shapes a lot, most notably at the beginning of "Tom
Sawyer". I'll often do something like play the E at the 7th but let the
open strings there (x79900). Fills out, I like the sound better and it's
a subtle difference from the norm.

If you let it this can be a great opportunity for you, the drummer and
the bass player to open up and expand on what they're playing.

The one big "danger" is that your bass player gets too "filly" and you lose
the pocket discussed in another post. Might just take some time to get
used to.

[Merge]

I really like the sound of the sus2nd chords too, VENTGtr. They sound cool when the guitar is tuned to drop D also. Instead of playing an A chord like this (7-7-7-9-10-x), try playing it like this (7-7-9-9) or (7-7-9). When playing in drop D, I'll sometimes do hammer on's and pull off's on using the sus2nd note of the chord. Drop D chords can sound boring sometimes, doing that makes them sound a little more interesting.

[VENTGtr]

Ya, I'm screwing with different chord shapes all the time. I like being
close to the nut or using open strings when possible since it fills out
more for the most part. Cool chord (x54030. Just a C moved to the
5th. Our singer and I both use this chord a lot when writing).

The A4 at 7799xx, EXCELLENT. Again, a Lifeson favourite chord.
The guy's a cool chord encyclopedia.

AH, as far as filling things out, another thing that can help is, after hitting
chords, arpeggiating them, or even a small part of them. Again, there's
a danger in getting so used to doing this you don't let things breathe and
it's not hard to get caught in that trap.

OH YA! GHOST bends and double stop ghost bends. Cooool. Lot of blues
and country guys use 'em. In rock, Curt Kirkwood from The Meat Puppet
uses them a good bit.

Octaves, as has been mentioned, are always cool. Hendrix, Jim Martin (Faith
No More), and, the super cool/great Jag Tanna use them a lot. So do I but, ya
know, that's pretty heady company to be droppin' yerself into.

"You can do songs from bands Iron Maiden too, you just need a good harmonizer
for some parts and have to be a little more selective about it."

Ya, and often the bass can do one of the lines. Years ago the band I was in diid
"Detroit Rock City". The bass player handled the harmony line and I liked it better
than the original.

BTW, this is one of the coolest threads.

[BDR]

I’ve played in a five-piece before and the things I’ve noticed are:

1) there’s much more room on stage when you’re in a four-piece.
2) One-fourth of the money at the end of the night is more than one-fifth.

r:>)

[Trucula]

I totally agree with everyone, especially what Paul said about techniques and what Rob said about space and money! All true.
If your bass player does great runs and fill work it's not a problem to be 4 peice. I use to play with Todd Burns and that guy was AMAZING!!..He played bass like it was rhythm. I learned so much from him, allot I didn't understand at the time but now I have a better feel for what he wanted me to do. Even tho we were a country rock band, he had me listening to Rush to learn irregular beats so the background was much more fuller.

[yodelinghippie]

Wow! Lots of great advice, fellas. I didnt expect such in depth tips. One thing I realized about a 4-piece band is that you get better, because you have to. I like the idea of using sus2nd chords, or just any interesting, full sounding chords. Having Skipisode's Ibanez helps to, lmao! Before I bought that, I always used a Yamaha AES 500... with the "Mother of Toilet Bowl" (lol) finish... nice guitar, but i was never really happy with the action. Also, its too goddamn heavy.

I'm definately excited to see what I am capable of; forcing myself into this position has renewed my passion for playing that was otherwise waning. I got into a rut where I relied on Colton (the lead guitarist {totally amazing, btw}), and I didn't really try to push my own limits and my own abilities.

One question, VentGTr... GHOST bends and double stop ghost bends? Sorry, I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that.

Thanks for all the tips guys!

[VENTGtr]

No prob. A ghost bend is when you bend the note BEFORE picking it
then release (Usually, the slower the release the better the sound but
it depends on what you're going for).

A double stop ghost bend can be the same thing using two strings or,
cooler, is to hold one string (Usually the higher of the two) in place,
bend the other before picking the two and then release the bent note.

It may take some time to get used to how far to bend the note and
get the pitch you want since you're not actually hearing it while bending
but it's not all that hard.

You can muck around and play stuff that gets a real Hawaiian feel, etc.

If you like muting strings you can do this with, say, the High E, mute the
B, and ghost bend the G, pick them and release G. You could also use
your fingers to pick the two and you'll get an even, simultaneous ring
from the notes obviously.

Again, it depends on what feel you're going for.

I'm sure there are some country playin' guys on here who use these
things like crazy and they might have some other ideas on this sort
of thing.

Hope this helps.