Keith Olbermann responds to Bush's BBC remarks

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lonewolf
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Post by lonewolf »

DirtySanchez wrote:Those ads are just smart recruitment?
You betcha. If it is filling the ranks, then its working. The military doesn't have a factory down the street or a store over by the mall where people can fill out an application and get hired. On top of that, if people don't like those jobs, they can just quit.....

The alternative is randomly drafting people's asses into the military and people like Paul would have no choice but to have everything to do with it.

I mean, lets face it, even though the human race has evolved to the point where there is no more killing, we still have to maintain a military to deal with those nasty Romulans. F'ing duh.

Of course, very few on this board have a clue what its like to be approaching their 18th birthday with a real clusterfuck of a war going on and an unforgiving draft that sucked up many of their older friends, neighbors and relatives for a decade. Some came back....some didn't. Thankfully, that war ended and just before I turned 18, they recinded the draft. I was one of the few that never had to sign up for the draft and I am forever grateful that that choice was given to me. Now, it looks as though its taken for granted. Be careful what you wish for...

If the recruitment system fails, there is going to be a hell of a lot of disappointed 18-21 year olds, many ill-equipped for the task, suddenly finding themselves in a world of shit.
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Post by Hawk »

lonewolf wrote:
DirtySanchez wrote:Those ads are just smart recruitment?
You betcha. If it is filling the ranks, then its working. The military doesn't have a factory down the street or a store over by the mall where people can fill out an application and get hired. On top of that, if people don't like those jobs, they can just quit.....

The alternative is randomly drafting people's asses into the military and people like Paul would have no choice but to have everything to do with it.

I mean, lets face it, even though the human race has evolved to the point where there is no more killing, we still have to maintain a military to deal with those nasty Romulans. F'ing duh.

Of course, very few on this board have a clue what its like to be approaching their 18th birthday with a real clusterfuck of a war going on and an unforgiving draft that sucked up many of their older friends, neighbors and relatives for a decade. Some came back....some didn't. Thankfully, that war ended and just before I turned 18, they recinded the draft. I was one of the few that never had to sign up for the draft and I am forever grateful that that choice was given to me. Now, it looks as though its taken for granted. Be careful what you wish for...

If the recruitment system fails, there is going to be a hell of a lot of disappointed 18-21 year olds, many ill-equipped for the task, suddenly finding themselves in a world of shit.
Perhaps that's in the back of mind when I come out anti-war.

I knew people over there, I knew some who went to Canada, and I knew families of a couple who were killed.

When I was 18 the USA had what was called a "draft lottery". Dates would be picked out of a hat, and we would be drafted (to go to VietNam) by the order your birth date was picked.

So if your birth date was picked in the first 100 or so, you were going. But if your birth date was picked near the last to be picked, it was unlikely you were going to be drafted.

I remember that day well , with much relief, when my date was picked at number 360 ! Way too high of a number to get drafted .
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Post by Banned »

I had 2 numbers. the first one when I was 18 was very high, but my next was 007!! Luckily for my, they did not actually have the draft that year, only the lottery to scare the snot outa you.

The reason that war was so bad was that our government did not let the military win. Sound like anything happening now? If our troops were allowed to flatten Falougha 2 years ago when all of the Sadr terrorists were concentrated, we would be out of there by now.
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Post by RobTheDrummer »

With that number, you could have been the next Bond!
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Post by BDR »

lonewolf wrote:WTF Rob, would you rather have the draft? Conscription is the only alternative to recruitment. Those ads are just smart recruitment.
Recruitment is one thing ... but these "climb-the-mountain-without-any-ropes-and-you'll-get-a-magic-sword-at-the-top" ads make me wanna fü©king puke.

The reason: I have two 18-year-old nephews who couldn't wait to graduate high school so they could sign up. I'd feel good about that if they wanted to serve for the right reasons but these (here it comes) STUPID KIDS are signing up because they think they'll be driving around in Bradley fighting vehicles with bitchin' sound systems and built in XBox 360 ...

There's nothing rock-n-roll about this war but that's how its being sold.

Pa-fü©king-thetic.

r:>)
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Post by AtoMikEnRtiA »

If this weren't war time.. I would kill to serve... fact is, I'm a pussy... I couldn't possibly stand the concept of killing somebody even if it were for my country. Does that degrade me as non-patriot.. no it doesn't, but I just couldn't stand murder... I also cant stand dry heat -- so the middle east is out for me. Granted I know you can serve and be the guy who hands out the basketballs during "free time", or I could (and actually have been offered a chance to) design the Army or any branch of the military's websites/graphics as part of a "design and concept" team in the service. I could also be anything I really wanted to.. but the fact is, the service in any one way shape or form isn't for me (my knees are more mangled up than nancy kerrigans after the lead pipe shot, i'm half the size of michigan's lower peninsula, and i have a severe authority problem that a drill sargeant would never be able to beat out of me... he would beat me or say something and i would make a little wise-crack and end up being beaten harder) but I greatly respect those who serve..

My cousin is a helicopter pilot in the Service... as a matter of fact his dedication to this country led him to choosing service over the prospect of professional football after Virginia Tech (his name is Clifford Anders - for those of you familiar with the huntingdon area) and I think he's in Afghanistan now.. I had an Uncle serve in Kosovo, and several guys from my graduating class have done their Iraq time... the respect I have for them all is fucking immense, because they're doing something I would love to, but never could due to pacifism among other things...

Little stories aside -- I hate the fact that recruiting tools don't show the true face of service. Call me sadistic, but I think when recruiting in war time... you need to show potential recruits the real side of service. Sure, they may not have to go over -- but I think it's morally wrong to show guys playing flag football, and climbing rope -- when they know that wont happen. Actually, the National Guard commercial in the movie theatres is closest thing Ive seen yet -- they show people pulling bodies out of flood waters, and people "serving" in the war -- they need to go more in that direction, and less in the way of saying "if you enlist -- one weekend a month and two weeks a year, you'll play paintball down here at Ft Indiantown Gap, and for 2 hours a day we'll let you sneak off into Annville where you can fuck some Lebanon Valley College sluts...

... and yes, LVC sluts exist ...

... sadly, I have yet to rail one =(
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Post by SpellboundByMetal »

I dont know who that guy is, but he has the same first name as ME! :wink:
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Post by AtoMikEnRtiA »

Keith, it's 9:10 AM... if you're drinking already, we're gonna have a problem...


"Mr. Reyn, would you like a beer?"

"At 9:11 AM? that's too early for a beer..."

".... okay"

"Get me two beers..."
"okay we got da right and fruffy panacakes. ooooooh ver goood you get da rittre bruberries, too!"

- Keith Reyn on Chinese Waiters at IHOP
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Post by SpellboundByMetal »

I havent had any alcohol in years. Besides maybe once. Its no good for me. Plus, ive always had bad experiences with alcoholics.

That was funny though.
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Post by Baceman Spiff »

Merge wrote:There isn't a newspaper or news show in America that reports the news with any honesty.
Try Glen Beck...
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Post by BDR »

Merge wrote:
BadDazeRob wrote:
Merge wrote:There isn't a newspaper or news show in America that reports the news with any honesty.
What a totally retarded statement.

Yes, that's my goal every morning when I get out of bed ... to see how much complete horse $hit I can get away with having printed with my name at the top. Talk about paranoid conspiracy theories.

Please feel free to remove your head from your nether regions ...

r:>)
Call it retarded if you like, I'm just stating my opinion.
Hey, I don't come on here and say that all Sheetz employees make crappy MTOs when you might make the best MTOs around ... that wouldn't be fair to you, would it?!?

r:>)
That's what she said.
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Post by AtoMikEnRtiA »

BadDazeRob wrote:
Merge wrote:
BadDazeRob wrote: What a totally retarded statement.

Yes, that's my goal every morning when I get out of bed ... to see how much complete horse $hit I can get away with having printed with my name at the top. Talk about paranoid conspiracy theories.

Please feel free to remove your head from your nether regions ...

r:>)
Call it retarded if you like, I'm just stating my opinion.
Hey, I don't come on here and say that all Sheetz employees make crappy MTOs when you might make the best MTOs around ... that wouldn't be fair to you, would it?!?

r:>)
I think since Sheetz raised their prices and raped their customers.. their sammich artists also went to hell...
"okay we got da right and fruffy panacakes. ooooooh ver goood you get da rittre bruberries, too!"

- Keith Reyn on Chinese Waiters at IHOP
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Post by Merge »

Sheetz MTO's just aren't what they used to be.
Pour me another one, cause I'll never find the silver lining in this cloud.
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Post by SuffrInLys »

I wonder how many of these war vets are going to end up roaming the streets as part of america's already huge homeless population. The faxz iz big brother only cares about you when you can do something for him!
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Post by RobTheDrummer »

At least the Army is a fucking option. Would you rather have them be street bums living off of your social programs and tax dollars? Or, would you rather have them in our nation's defense, and our tax dollars?
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Post by Atomic Jim »

Rob:

If you feel as passionately as you seem to in your emails, then it all boils down to this: you should be emailing us from Bagdad, not Reno. It's easy to talk about sacrifice, honor, etc. from the comfort of our homes, but going and doing it is often another thing. I don't know how old you are, but the army has raised it's enlistment age to 42.

This isn't a personal slam; I wouldn't want you or anyone else to go into the mess that Bush and his neo-con cronies have created with their lies and deception. I'm just saying that anyone who adamately supports this so-called war should be wearing a uniform in the sands of Iraq.

Before I get bashed for not knowing what I'm talking about by the pro military types, I spent 8 months in Vietnam in 1968 as a hospitol corpsman with Echo 2/26, Third Marine Division, on the DMZ, including a nice little resort called Khe Sahn. I would have been there longer, but I was wounded at a place called LZ Margo (look it up on Google) and spent another 4 months in a Naval Hospital. I have a Purple Heart to prove it. I lost a lot of friends there for nothing, because we were all lied to.

The more I see and hear of Bush, the more I am convinced that he is mentally unbalanced. Just an aside, do you know that he has had fundamentalist ministers who believe in Armaggedon and the End Times into the White House to consult with him, and that he claims that God spoke to him and told him to invade Iraq. That scares the crap out of me.
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Post by RobTheDrummer »

I have very bad asthma, that's why I can't be in the military. I have lots of family and friends in the military. I respect them a lot, and they are some of the smartest people I know for all of those who stereotype the military.

This is not a war caused by Bush. It was a war that was building and building for a while. It was just CONGRESS that decided that it was time to make Iraq the front in the war, intelligence told EVERYONE on BOTH SIDES that there were weapons, just as previous admins did. Now that a few thousand troops die in a war, did I say war? They decide that this is a bad thing! Then what? Oh, yea, lets pull out so it can be even more of a mess over there and the insurgents can take over everything. Take over oil fields, get a home base of operations, plan an attack on us, have the means to carry it out, and the means to make trades of oil for weapons to say, Russia and China. Would you rather have them screw our economy or come here to kill us? Or would you rather us over there to point it in the right direction? It's also a good location to be if Iran attacks Israel. You don't win wars overnight, you don't win wars be giving up, you don't win wars because a few troops die and you run scared. Come on people, wake up! Do you realize what we are facing in the world today? Did we get this country easily?

Another note, how many people die each year from car accidents? With a mentality like most have on the war, we should outlaw cars so people are protected from themselves.

Also Atomic, I respect you a lot for your service man. God Bless Ya! Also, you can't compare Vietnam to Iraq, they are completely different wars.
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Post by Atomic Jim »

Hey Rob:

The Paralells between Iraq and Vietnam are uncanny; the biggest difference it the terrain. One of the guys I served with in Nam, a retired master gunnery Sgt., sent me a comparison. I wish I still had it, but I could do one of my own. He was against this mess, too.

Remember the Bush, Perlman, Bill Kristol, Dick Cheney, Wolfawitz and other neo-cons were planning this war before Bush was even elected, and of course, before 911.

I had no problem with U. S. Troops going into Afganistan after 911. I wanted to see them go in and drag Osama Bin Ladin out by his scranny neck, and if the taliban got wiped out in the mean time, all the better.

Iraq, on the other hand had no weapons of mass distruction, no terrorist until we invaded. I've heard Iraqis say that at least under Sadam, there was water, electricty and there children could play outside at night without fear. Even Christians could worship freely, but not now.

We were sold a bill of good when Bush said that things would change once Sadam was caught. Well, we caught him, tried him, and helped hang him, and if anything, the situation if worsening.

While Sadam was a ruthless dictator, it was up to the Iraqi people to rise up and overthrow him, as we did the British. France only came to our aid when we asked them for help, they did not initiate the revolution. Then, there are other, far worse, if you can believe it, dictators in Africa, South America, and of course, North Korea.

You said that we don't win wars overnight, but this war has now gone on longer than WWII (the big one, as Archie Bunker would say). The problem now is that Iraq is such a mess, thanks to Bush and his buddies who had no clue what to do once he got to Bagdad, that we can't leave and we can't stay.

Okay, I'm done now. Have a good night. Wait, one more thing. If you want to read a really good book about the American Revolution and how that almost turned out to be a disaster, read David McCullough's 1776.
Okay, I'm really finished this time.
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Post by RobTheDrummer »

You make some good points. It's a different animal though. I'm not only referring to Iraq (which is a small part of what we are fighting) but of the war against Muslim extremists. That's the big difference in what we are facing. Thanks for the reply!
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Post by SuffrInLys »

RobTheDrummer wrote:At least the Army is a fucking option. Would you rather have them be street bums living off of your social programs and tax dollars? Or, would you rather have them in our nation's defense, and our tax dollars?
i am kinda confused about how that is all worded i am thinking you took that somewhere i was not leading to so here

when they join because they think it is for the better of the rest us then i don't give a shit about my tax dollars going to em .. they fucking deserve it!

but when they get out they need to be taken care of not just dropeed off the face of the earth.. one of my friends that came back and had over two hundred confirmed kills and was shot twice and now has to go to therapy to help deal with normal life.. he is fortunate to have that be available alot vets get fucked out of things like that.. its not right
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Post by RobTheDrummer »

Actually, those that make a career out of it do get pretty damn good benefits. Just like any job, if you choose not to make a career, you aren't gonna get shit out of it.

Life is about finding what you want to do. Some people want to serve, some don't. Some find what they love and do it, some do nothing. Those that served and paid a price should be taken care of no matter what. I agree with you there, but those that go in and get out quick, they deserve a cut. They don't deserve a lifetime of payment. Those that fight in foreign wars deserve the most however. There are a lot of people that get in and get out. They get money for college, and they also learn important skills. As I've said before, people that I know that went in the Military have benefited. But that's not always the case.
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Post by CredoSpeek »

RobTheDrummer wrote:I have very bad asthma, that's why I can't be in the military.
I wondered how long till this came into it... Robby How come everyone who supports it is either not there or has a reason why they can't go? I have an idea we of course wouldn't want to send the leader of the free world BUT I see NO reason why his daughters couldn't serve, I bet some parents would feel better about their own situations if he were willing to send his own, I mean after all it's for democracy and the future safety of our nation and I would think 2 Bush's would be a small price to pay to aid in the cause. and back to an older subject did you see on Fox news all of the dead people coming back to life now that Saddam is dead? You guys were right killing him really did make sense, The world is SO much better this week than it has been in years, I was wrong, that was abgreat idea.
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Post by BDR »

RobTheDrummer wrote:Another note, how many people die each year from car accidents? With a mentality like most have on the war, we should outlaw cars so people are protected from themselves.
Frontrunner for most ridiculous "point" of 2007 ...

r:>)
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Post by RobTheDrummer »

Hey, it's a point! That's what happens in a socialist country. Just wait and see what the democrats do when they are in power.

Oh, and Creedo, I will never respond to you until you get some fucking lessons from the Captain. I'm done reading any of your shit-tacular postage.
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Post by lonewolf »

Reality shows? Neo-Gong-Shows? ET? Sorry, I don't have time for the utter nonsense of the rich and famous (or soon to be.) The Daily show is funny, but aside from comedy, the host dujour is almost as clueless as a politician who just lost an election. Hannity and O'Reilly are not journalists, they are editorialists. I'm not sure, but I think Colmes is an alien.

So I saw this thread and asked myself: "Who the f..k is Keith Olbermann?"

Off I went to PMS-NBC and found this little slice called Countdown. As I skimmed thru the Countdown front page, it occurred to me that I had seen this all before...in line at the grocery checkout counter. The headlines were all too familiar:

THE DEAD PLANET--Video: Did we destroy life on Mars?
MAGIC WATER TURNS MALES INTO FEMALES
PIG RACE PROTEST
NEPAL MONKEY DANCE
TWO-HEADED CALF

Hell yeah! That's the guy I'm going to listen to!

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