You know....Bar 53 has been doing some great things to get crowds there. But its hard for a bar that does not have financial backing from outside of the income generated from the bar to compete.
They have to be taking a loss from not charging a cover charge for bands and offering killer low prices on drinks such as jager bombs.
Now this will not put us out of business but I can see where some places that try to have bands every weekend are hurting big time. They are paying for bands and not getting anyone in to hear them because they must charge a cover charge to pay for the band. Sure they can get people to come out if they offer the same no cover offering, but the bottom line will be out of this world. What's going to happen is you guys/gals will have fewer places to play at because they will stop having bands.
Discussion?
Its hard to compete....
Lisa,
First off, sorry I didn't make it to see the Jager girls. Not only did I end up with the
infernal flu but messed by back up hauling gear the Saturday before.
Actually, we're playing Bar 53 this Saturday. First time I was there was a couple
of weeks ago to drop off signs. They just enlarged their space and I'm really looking
forward to it. New/Old drummer's back and we're all happy like sittin' in butter. Just
hoping to get a practice in before!
Coupl'a things very much impressed me when I first called Bar 53. Mainly, one of
the first things mentioned was when they'd begin advertising. ADVERTISING.
Cool to hear. We have people to whom we send what's up where and have
sometimes put things in the Ad Bargain, etc. The efficacy of the last, I'm not so sure
about but it didn't hurt and we may start doing so again when we're over that way. But
to hear the BAR/VENUE mention that they'd be running radio spots, etc. was really cool.
Used to be so common and now it's really rare.
As for their not charging a cover, I'm thinking that's bringing people in because they
can stop by to see what's up and not have to pay anything.
They offered us a fair amount to play there. None of us had ever done so but they'd
heard the name and worked to get us in soon and when it worked for our sched.
Excellent. Instantly builds a good rapport.
Granted, Bar 53 may not end up paying as much as a lot of places and "we" don't make
what may have been brought in from the cover but they have a way of handling things
that works for them. As a band, you may or may not choose to play there and depending
on your following you may be able to work with them for more. I don't know. Like I've
mentioned in the past, I'll always work with a place to make things best for them and us
and I think most bands will do the same.
Pay-wise and size-wise, Bar 53 may not be for every band, but it's in a good locale,
brings in people from a pretty wide area, and, from a band standpoint, can get
people familiar with a band that may not otherwise see them.
For us, we have a new lineup, took some time off, and are booking places to get a
following that works for us and it's working great. While we're not making a fortune
each night (And we've all been in bands that have had good followings in the past)
we're doing what we need. As a matter of fact, of the next few shows, we're taking
a straight amount from places that do charge covers.
As long as we can pay a sound guy if needed and make enough to make it worthwhile,
all is kosher (Wherever we're playing some travel is necessary for a couple of us).
As for cover charges, the last couple of times I've made it places to see bands, the
covers have gone up from the previous times I was at each place. Don't know what
cut the bands got of that but they were a couple of bucks more.
Keep people some place with cheaper beer and they'll buy more of it. Same with
shots, etc. I know that's no trade secret.
I've said it before, bars need to do some real advertising or no one know what's
going on. We make signs to post at bars, send e-mails to people, etc. and that's
on REALLY limited time here. I think if a place wants to let people know what's
going on they need to do something and do it consistently. Make knowing that
they have some event going on unavoidable.
You do some good posts on MySpace but in our area, as you and I have discussed
before, there are STILL a lot of people who don't even HAVE the internet, much less
get MySpace bulletins. And THOSE people take in liquid like a running commode.
Because of you and I talking about the MySpace thing a couple of weeks ago
I decided to ask a few of the people from the area (There were a good few who
came from State College) who were there specifically to see us if they had internet
access (Not that bluntly but they asked where we'd be and I brought it up in that
context).
I ask about 20 people and 2 of them did. Unbelievable but true. I ask the one girl
if she had a MySpace page and she said "I don't have time for that s*&t". BUT, she
sure drank a LOT of mixed drinks. Something red and potent.
"if they offer the same no cover offering, but the bottom line will be out of this world"
See, I don't see this. You bring in even a few extra people who are ALL goin' to
spend more than you'll end up paying a band that NORMALLY would go somewhere
else, or NOWHERE, and you did better than if there were nothing going on. I like good
beer. If I go someplace, I'm not buying the cheapest thing but it's next to never that I just
go and sit at a bar. You sell me 2 or 3 Guinness (My limit for a full night. I drive, she
drinks...I pay. How the Farfuknugen does THAT work!) and I've given more than several
patrons drunk-on-the-cheap stuff limit.
And THEY move onto shots of Tequila (Again, I'm paying. Criminy).
For the Popper, find a good, honest, fair, reasonable fee to pay EVERY band the first
time they play there unless you're pretty sure they'll pull then work with them. Also,
along the lines of the latter, as a "HEY, WE HAVE BANDS!" thing, I'd say get in someone
like Serious Jones in for a night. Great band who have a strong local/regional following
and would bring new people there (Though their drummer's a crotchety old coot...aren't
you Calv). I know people who travel wherever to see them and I still talk to people who
don't know the Popper has bands. Friends in Osceola have been surprised and thought
you just had a restaurant.. You do that and have signs up everywhere for subsequent
events and those from the Houtzdale/Coalport/Osceola area who came with friends to
see S.J. may come the the Popper to see who Band X, who you've been advertising
elsewhere, is like.
On an unrelated note, I can say there's little that gives a freaky feeling than seeing yer
own goofy mug on a sign above a urinal.
Ayway, heck, have a $1 draft Miller special to augment (That's a popular swill there.
Eeugh. Just my opinion but Eeugh!. That pig butt-sweat can't cost much per keg but it's
popular with the locals...even the "local" with whom I live. Her taste in beer is lacking in
comparison to her taste in a husband. Clearly, my words, not hers).
F&$k that's long and I have work to do.
Anyway, those are a few thoughts.
Later,
DaveP.
First off, sorry I didn't make it to see the Jager girls. Not only did I end up with the
infernal flu but messed by back up hauling gear the Saturday before.
Actually, we're playing Bar 53 this Saturday. First time I was there was a couple
of weeks ago to drop off signs. They just enlarged their space and I'm really looking
forward to it. New/Old drummer's back and we're all happy like sittin' in butter. Just
hoping to get a practice in before!
Coupl'a things very much impressed me when I first called Bar 53. Mainly, one of
the first things mentioned was when they'd begin advertising. ADVERTISING.
Cool to hear. We have people to whom we send what's up where and have
sometimes put things in the Ad Bargain, etc. The efficacy of the last, I'm not so sure
about but it didn't hurt and we may start doing so again when we're over that way. But
to hear the BAR/VENUE mention that they'd be running radio spots, etc. was really cool.
Used to be so common and now it's really rare.
As for their not charging a cover, I'm thinking that's bringing people in because they
can stop by to see what's up and not have to pay anything.
They offered us a fair amount to play there. None of us had ever done so but they'd
heard the name and worked to get us in soon and when it worked for our sched.
Excellent. Instantly builds a good rapport.
Granted, Bar 53 may not end up paying as much as a lot of places and "we" don't make
what may have been brought in from the cover but they have a way of handling things
that works for them. As a band, you may or may not choose to play there and depending
on your following you may be able to work with them for more. I don't know. Like I've
mentioned in the past, I'll always work with a place to make things best for them and us
and I think most bands will do the same.
Pay-wise and size-wise, Bar 53 may not be for every band, but it's in a good locale,
brings in people from a pretty wide area, and, from a band standpoint, can get
people familiar with a band that may not otherwise see them.
For us, we have a new lineup, took some time off, and are booking places to get a
following that works for us and it's working great. While we're not making a fortune
each night (And we've all been in bands that have had good followings in the past)
we're doing what we need. As a matter of fact, of the next few shows, we're taking
a straight amount from places that do charge covers.
As long as we can pay a sound guy if needed and make enough to make it worthwhile,
all is kosher (Wherever we're playing some travel is necessary for a couple of us).
As for cover charges, the last couple of times I've made it places to see bands, the
covers have gone up from the previous times I was at each place. Don't know what
cut the bands got of that but they were a couple of bucks more.
Keep people some place with cheaper beer and they'll buy more of it. Same with
shots, etc. I know that's no trade secret.
I've said it before, bars need to do some real advertising or no one know what's
going on. We make signs to post at bars, send e-mails to people, etc. and that's
on REALLY limited time here. I think if a place wants to let people know what's
going on they need to do something and do it consistently. Make knowing that
they have some event going on unavoidable.
You do some good posts on MySpace but in our area, as you and I have discussed
before, there are STILL a lot of people who don't even HAVE the internet, much less
get MySpace bulletins. And THOSE people take in liquid like a running commode.
Because of you and I talking about the MySpace thing a couple of weeks ago
I decided to ask a few of the people from the area (There were a good few who
came from State College) who were there specifically to see us if they had internet
access (Not that bluntly but they asked where we'd be and I brought it up in that
context).
I ask about 20 people and 2 of them did. Unbelievable but true. I ask the one girl
if she had a MySpace page and she said "I don't have time for that s*&t". BUT, she
sure drank a LOT of mixed drinks. Something red and potent.
"if they offer the same no cover offering, but the bottom line will be out of this world"
See, I don't see this. You bring in even a few extra people who are ALL goin' to
spend more than you'll end up paying a band that NORMALLY would go somewhere
else, or NOWHERE, and you did better than if there were nothing going on. I like good
beer. If I go someplace, I'm not buying the cheapest thing but it's next to never that I just
go and sit at a bar. You sell me 2 or 3 Guinness (My limit for a full night. I drive, she
drinks...I pay. How the Farfuknugen does THAT work!) and I've given more than several
patrons drunk-on-the-cheap stuff limit.
And THEY move onto shots of Tequila (Again, I'm paying. Criminy).
For the Popper, find a good, honest, fair, reasonable fee to pay EVERY band the first
time they play there unless you're pretty sure they'll pull then work with them. Also,
along the lines of the latter, as a "HEY, WE HAVE BANDS!" thing, I'd say get in someone
like Serious Jones in for a night. Great band who have a strong local/regional following
and would bring new people there (Though their drummer's a crotchety old coot...aren't
you Calv). I know people who travel wherever to see them and I still talk to people who
don't know the Popper has bands. Friends in Osceola have been surprised and thought
you just had a restaurant.. You do that and have signs up everywhere for subsequent
events and those from the Houtzdale/Coalport/Osceola area who came with friends to
see S.J. may come the the Popper to see who Band X, who you've been advertising
elsewhere, is like.
On an unrelated note, I can say there's little that gives a freaky feeling than seeing yer
own goofy mug on a sign above a urinal.
Ayway, heck, have a $1 draft Miller special to augment (That's a popular swill there.
Eeugh. Just my opinion but Eeugh!. That pig butt-sweat can't cost much per keg but it's
popular with the locals...even the "local" with whom I live. Her taste in beer is lacking in
comparison to her taste in a husband. Clearly, my words, not hers).
F&$k that's long and I have work to do.
Anyway, those are a few thoughts.
Later,
DaveP.
DaveP.
"You must be this beautiful to ride the Quagmire."
"You must be this beautiful to ride the Quagmire."
If you book quality entertainment, the cover issue should be a non-issue. Cover charge is everywhere and people expect it.
"No cover" is a gimmick that works or doesn't work, but I don't think "no cover" bars will put you out of business if you focus on strategic booking and, as Dave said, advertise.
r:>)
"No cover" is a gimmick that works or doesn't work, but I don't think "no cover" bars will put you out of business if you focus on strategic booking and, as Dave said, advertise.
r:>)
That's what she said.
Re: Its hard to compete....
Lisa wrote:You know....Bar 53 has been doing some great things to get crowds there. But its hard for a bar that does not have financial backing from outside of the income generated from the bar to compete.
what is bar 53 doing that your not doing to get crowds there?
what do ya mean by financial backing? does bar 53 have a financial backer that is giving the owners money that doesn't want to see a return on investment? probobly not
what i'm saying is i also have a business (washing tractor trailers) the money i generate eith my business has to run my business. it has to stand on its own. i can't say... use my wifes money that she makes at her job at the hospital to run my business because if i had to do that then my business must be losing money. which means maybe i'm paying the help to much. maybe i need to find a cheaper supplys. maybe i need to find more vehicles to wash.
i don't know much about the bar business i'm sure its not easy. no business is. from what i gather just from being on here and reading your posts is you've been in business for a couple or three years. just assuming you have a mortgage on the bar. maybe some of these other bars don't and they have a little more money to play withwhen it comes to promoting maybe they don't have some of the payments that you have so they can sale drinks cheaper cause they just might not have the overhead you do right now. i remember starting my biz i had to keep the business running(had no idea what i was doing) had to pay all the home front bills (thats where my wifes pay helped) and it didnT SEEM like i was making any money cuz i had some hefty debt. but then i was able to pay something off and then something else now all of a sudden it sSEEMED like i'm starting to make a couple of bucks. there was a couple of times i wanted to give up but i didn't.and now i'm glad i hung in there.
i think you cant compare what the other bars are doing and how theyre doing it because you situations might be tottaly different. its the apples and oranges thing. the first couple of years i took aloss then i started to break even then i started to make a couple bucks. i wish you all the success you deserve for your hard work and it will come just hang in there.
i was waiting for a post to see how your night with the hurricaines went. you were very exited.
screwed up the quote thing AGAIN. damn, that quote thing!
Discussion?
-
Craven Sound
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 695
- Joined: Wednesday Aug 06, 2003
- Location: Cambria County, PA
Advertising ... it's a wonderful thing.Craven Sound wrote:I drive through Coalport on a regular basis and can never tell who is playing. All I ever see on the sign is that Wed. is DJ night and that's pretty much it. If I knew what band was playing any given weekend, I may be inclined to stop in and have a beer or three.
r:>)
That's what she said.
Dave...what's wrong with seeing your picture above the urnal? It looks nice thereVENTGtr wrote:Lisa,
On an unrelated note, I can say there's little that gives a freaky feeling than seeing yer
own goofy mug on a sign above a urinal.
Ayway, heck, have a $1 draft Miller special to augment (That's a popular swill there.
Eeugh. Just my opinion but Eeugh!. That pig butt-sweat can't cost much per keg but it's
popular with the locals...even the "local" with whom I live. Her taste in beer is lacking in
comparison to her taste in a husband. Clearly, my words, not hers).
F&$k that's long and I have work to do.
Anyway, those are a few thoughts.
Later,
DaveP.
Hey, we have 75 cent draft specials all the time..not just during happy hour....where is everyone.....
To be completely honest here folks....we can't afford to do much advertising right now...still paying for all the ads we ran last year with no crowd showing up to hear the bands.....yikes. We are trying...and trying hard.
You know what sucks....we always hear up to the event that people are coming out to the Popper....and bringing friends...then they don't show up. You may pay a $5 cover, but we only charge $2 for a bottle of beer on band nights.
My head is spinning...and I still consider me very new to all this stuff. But I figure I've got some great people to get input from...thanks.
Lisa,
"we have 75 cent draft specials all the time"
Dang. Who knew. That's cool. What's on there?
How about culling an e-mailing list that you can send events, etc. to and have in there
that you always have .75 drafts. Free, voluntary and they can work well .
"Dave...what's wrong with seeing your picture above the urnal? It looks nice there"
Well, it's a step up. When I was kid all the school pictures were a couple of inches off
the floor to, as Mom put it, "Keep the rats out".
"You know what sucks....we always hear up to the event that people are coming out to the Popper....and bringing friends...then they don't show up."
Oh yes. When you play you get to take every "And I'm goin' to bring all my just turned
21 naked girl friends next time" with a grain of salt.
Okay, mebbe THAT'S never been actually SAID, but you know what I mean.
"My head is spinning."
Hear ya.
I'll e-mail you with something in th near future. Blasted work.
"we have 75 cent draft specials all the time"
Dang. Who knew. That's cool. What's on there?
How about culling an e-mailing list that you can send events, etc. to and have in there
that you always have .75 drafts. Free, voluntary and they can work well .
"Dave...what's wrong with seeing your picture above the urnal? It looks nice there"
Well, it's a step up. When I was kid all the school pictures were a couple of inches off
the floor to, as Mom put it, "Keep the rats out".
"You know what sucks....we always hear up to the event that people are coming out to the Popper....and bringing friends...then they don't show up."
Oh yes. When you play you get to take every "And I'm goin' to bring all my just turned
21 naked girl friends next time" with a grain of salt.
Okay, mebbe THAT'S never been actually SAID, but you know what I mean.
"My head is spinning."
Hear ya.
I'll e-mail you with something in th near future. Blasted work.
DaveP.
"You must be this beautiful to ride the Quagmire."
"You must be this beautiful to ride the Quagmire."
Ive seen this kind of thing ALOT. Mostly at ALL AGES venues. People dont get that venues cant just fork out money...and then pay the bills. I understand that paying a band is important. But if the is going to survive they need to pay the bills first. Or there wont be anywhere left to play. Ive seen a startling number of venues close this year alone because they cant afford to advertise..in turn get low turn outs and cant pay the bills nor the bands. Its a sucky situation. But good luck!
-
lonewolf
- Diamond Member
- Posts: 6249
- Joined: Thursday Sep 25, 2003
- Location: Anywhere, Earth
- Contact:
Lisa, am I to understand that you are on a highly travelled road and all your sign says is "DJ Wednesday"?
If this is so, you gotta get some of those hang up letters and get to work. Change it every Monday to reflect who's playing the next weekend. List specials.
Thats free billboard advertising in a local commercial location. If its not big enough, get a bigger marquee.
If this is so, you gotta get some of those hang up letters and get to work. Change it every Monday to reflect who's playing the next weekend. List specials.
Thats free billboard advertising in a local commercial location. If its not big enough, get a bigger marquee.
...Oh, the freedom of the day that yielded to no rule or time...
-
floodcitybrass
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 527
- Joined: Thursday Jan 30, 2003
Hi Lisa. I am a musician and I ocassionally go and watch some bands. Here is a summary of what I believe people like and don't like about watching bands at bars.
What I believe people don't like:
- TFL = bad. I think people go home or don't come back when its too f***ing loud or poorly mixed.
-Bands that don't play enough crowd music or dance music. I see that most people like hearing stuff they know want to dance on the floor. Maybe thats why people go to places that have a DJ. I notice that dance music type bands draw better crowds than listening music bands.
-Dirty disgusting bathrooms. You know what I mean. Make sure there's doors on the stalls and get rid of the horse trough urninals.
Excessive smoke - Sorry, I believe people are just not used to it. Since smoking is becoming so socially unacceptable, I think non-smokers have a hard time going to a bar. If people could smoke everywhere (like planes, hospitals, movies, etc) like you could in the early 80's then it may be different as non-smokers would be more used to it.
LOOOOOOOOONG Breaks - Bands tend to take excessively long breaks: eg: 3 X 50 minutes playing sets and 25+ minute breaks.
************
What I beleive people like to see/experience and my suggestions:
People like a good band and a good environment.
I don't think advertising is a big problem. In Johnstown, we have the weekender that tells who is playing where and when. I don't know the cost of that. I think that is adequate. I look in it each week and if I want to see a band somewhere, I go. Now, if you are having some special event or something bigger, then you need to advertise more. Ie. a national act, a fund raiser, etc. We packed a place doing a Katrina benefit.
Is your bar big enough to have a national act come through or highly repected band? That tends to create a good buzz.
I think it is not so much an issue of cover charge prices and beer prices. I never go watch band because the bar offers $.75 drafts. I go based on the talent and the environment. Hire good talent. The talent has to be good in the perspective of bar patrons (not in perspective to professional musicians).
What age group are you targeting? Don't hire oldies bands if you crowd conisists of 21 year olds. Don't hire punk bands if you crowd is in their 50's.
Be loyal to bands that have been of good service. However, this is still a business. If the BAND A draws a huge crowd and BAND B does not and you use similar advertising, then look for a new BAND B. Don't hire the bands that have crowds of water drinkers.
Target the ladies. When girls are present, the guys will follow!!! Give incentive for ladies to come.
What I believe people don't like:
- TFL = bad. I think people go home or don't come back when its too f***ing loud or poorly mixed.
-Bands that don't play enough crowd music or dance music. I see that most people like hearing stuff they know want to dance on the floor. Maybe thats why people go to places that have a DJ. I notice that dance music type bands draw better crowds than listening music bands.
-Dirty disgusting bathrooms. You know what I mean. Make sure there's doors on the stalls and get rid of the horse trough urninals.
Excessive smoke - Sorry, I believe people are just not used to it. Since smoking is becoming so socially unacceptable, I think non-smokers have a hard time going to a bar. If people could smoke everywhere (like planes, hospitals, movies, etc) like you could in the early 80's then it may be different as non-smokers would be more used to it.
LOOOOOOOOONG Breaks - Bands tend to take excessively long breaks: eg: 3 X 50 minutes playing sets and 25+ minute breaks.
************
What I beleive people like to see/experience and my suggestions:
People like a good band and a good environment.
I don't think advertising is a big problem. In Johnstown, we have the weekender that tells who is playing where and when. I don't know the cost of that. I think that is adequate. I look in it each week and if I want to see a band somewhere, I go. Now, if you are having some special event or something bigger, then you need to advertise more. Ie. a national act, a fund raiser, etc. We packed a place doing a Katrina benefit.
Is your bar big enough to have a national act come through or highly repected band? That tends to create a good buzz.
I think it is not so much an issue of cover charge prices and beer prices. I never go watch band because the bar offers $.75 drafts. I go based on the talent and the environment. Hire good talent. The talent has to be good in the perspective of bar patrons (not in perspective to professional musicians).
What age group are you targeting? Don't hire oldies bands if you crowd conisists of 21 year olds. Don't hire punk bands if you crowd is in their 50's.
Be loyal to bands that have been of good service. However, this is still a business. If the BAND A draws a huge crowd and BAND B does not and you use similar advertising, then look for a new BAND B. Don't hire the bands that have crowds of water drinkers.
Target the ladies. When girls are present, the guys will follow!!! Give incentive for ladies to come.
Lisa... I've never owned a bar, but I've been to plenty. How many drafts do you have to sell at 75 cents to make a good wage for the night. It's no wonder it's not profitable.Lisa wrote:Hey, we have 75 cent draft specials all the time..not just during happy hour....where is everyone.....
To be completely honest here folks....we can't afford to do much advertising right now...still paying for all the ads we ran last year with no crowd showing up to hear the bands.....yikes. We are trying...and trying hard.
This is a problem in our society... I call it the Walmarting of America. Everyone wants it cheaper and cheaper. Let me tell you, I don't think cheap beer will ever attract much of a crowd, unless they are college age, and I really don't think there are enough of them up that way to support you steadily...
Let me tell you, there are bars now in Pittsburgh and even Johnstown that charge anywhere from 3.50 to $5.00 for a draft... ON SPECIAL. Yeah, they mostly import foriegn beer but there is no shortage of people willing to pay for a great tasting beer.
Great tasting beer isn't the only part of the equation... I'm a firm believer in handling all the details. It's not just ONE thing that makes something work... It's everything. I've never been to your establishment so I'm not commenting directly on your tavern... These are just my general observations as a concerned and somewhat involved bystander. I run sound for some of the bands around here, so I have an intrest in seeing bars suceed. I also can't work for free.
As others have commented I think smoking is a large part of why bars are not doing well. I don't know how people here can argue... "if they ban smoking, no one will go to bars." Then turn around and say "why aren't people coming to our bars?" while smoking is still allowed in bars and restaurants.
To those that say non-smoking establishments drive away customers.... BULL SHIT. I've been to Pittsburgh bars where smoking was prohibited, and now they have a city wide ban in bars that serve food. Let me tell you... there is NO lack of people in those bars. I was at Fat Head's two weeks ago and I had to wait 15 minutes to get to the bar to even ORDER a drink, and another 35 to get a table. And guess what. There was no band there. Drafts are $3-6.
My suggestion...My head is spinning...and I still consider me very new to all this stuff. But I figure I've got some great people to get input from...thanks.
get rid of smoking
serve quality beer and charge accordingly
provide a nice professional staff
make sure the place is spotless
hire good talent
Advertise all of these facts. The people will come. I guarantee it.
Look at Starbucks. People make fun of $4 coffee. But guess what, when they open a store, it succeeds, and ALL of their employees get full benefits even if they only work 20hrs a week!
I'm not saying your staff is mean or your bar is dirty, like I said I've never been there... Those are just my observations on how to make a food/alcholo service establishment succesful in the 21st century in america.
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Mistress_DB
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 606
- Joined: Sunday Jan 23, 2005
- Location: In dire need of a spanking
advertising doesn't have to be expensive. Start up a mailing list. If you can, make the small investment and start a website for the bar (no geocities or angelfire) where you can post up coming shows, menu from the kitchen and any relevant drink specials. Update the site regularly. Hire quality entertainment. Look at who draws ppl elsewhere and start with that. Granted that's no guarantee, but it's a start. If unsure, have them play for the door. Having a national come through is a nice thought, but keep in mind most of them will expect at least a flat rate regardless of the turn out. Plus they will expect the club to advertise the show heavily. Print up fliers you can put on the tables listing upcoming shows and specials.
The person below me enjoys a good spanking.
Wrong bar...we don't have a dj on wednesdays nor do we have a sign that says this. We always put on our signs when we have a band.lonewolf wrote:Lisa, am I to understand that you are on a highly travelled road and all your sign says is "DJ Wednesday"?
If this is so, you gotta get some of those hang up letters and get to work. Change it every Monday to reflect who's playing the next weekend. List specials.
Thats free billboard advertising in a local commercial location. If its not big enough, get a bigger marquee.
I've avoided putting my $0.02 in here, but I just can't resist any longer.
There's some good suggestions here, a lot of which only apply when you already have a decent crowd. Judging by your posts in this forum, that is not the case.
Here's a hypothetical suggestion.
Hire a band that will bring people in. I don't know what band that is. What do people play on the jukebox there? Ask some people who they would like to see.
Hire bands in a similar style, but not nessisarily as well known. Make sure they are good though.
Book bands every saturday for a month, or every friday, or every friday and saturday, kick it off with the well known band.
Advertise the crap out of the well known band.
example:
Kick off the new year with _______ at The Alley Popper. blah blah blah, drink specials, blah blah blah, half naked girls, whatever.
Remember live music every _____ during the month of january
Yeah, you might be lucky to break even on the first night, or even lose money. But if you draw well enough, you should have repeat buisiness throughout the rest of the month, which, if you continue to do things right, should continue to come out afterwards.
If possible, get bands that have some recordings of some kind, play them during set breaks of the band thats on the week before.
live bands are a dime a dozen, expect to pay for quality bands though. Consider having a written contract, or at the least, a very well discussed verbal contract. Discuss song choices, break times, will there be free beer? How will the band be payed?
Also, are you trying to attract fans of live music, or fans of drinking beer?
my suggestion should work pretty will for fans of live music, who should be very used to paying reasonable cover charges, and drinking beer that actually costs more than a dollar.
If you are trying to attract fans of drinking beer, have drink specials, don't charge a cover. Hire a band if you can afford it, and it helps sell booze, if not, don't hire a band, hire a DJ, or let people play the jukebox.
There's some good suggestions here, a lot of which only apply when you already have a decent crowd. Judging by your posts in this forum, that is not the case.
Here's a hypothetical suggestion.
Hire a band that will bring people in. I don't know what band that is. What do people play on the jukebox there? Ask some people who they would like to see.
Hire bands in a similar style, but not nessisarily as well known. Make sure they are good though.
Book bands every saturday for a month, or every friday, or every friday and saturday, kick it off with the well known band.
Advertise the crap out of the well known band.
example:
Kick off the new year with _______ at The Alley Popper. blah blah blah, drink specials, blah blah blah, half naked girls, whatever.
Remember live music every _____ during the month of january
Yeah, you might be lucky to break even on the first night, or even lose money. But if you draw well enough, you should have repeat buisiness throughout the rest of the month, which, if you continue to do things right, should continue to come out afterwards.
If possible, get bands that have some recordings of some kind, play them during set breaks of the band thats on the week before.
live bands are a dime a dozen, expect to pay for quality bands though. Consider having a written contract, or at the least, a very well discussed verbal contract. Discuss song choices, break times, will there be free beer? How will the band be payed?
Also, are you trying to attract fans of live music, or fans of drinking beer?
my suggestion should work pretty will for fans of live music, who should be very used to paying reasonable cover charges, and drinking beer that actually costs more than a dollar.
If you are trying to attract fans of drinking beer, have drink specials, don't charge a cover. Hire a band if you can afford it, and it helps sell booze, if not, don't hire a band, hire a DJ, or let people play the jukebox.
Stand back, I like to rock out.
I just read the last couple of posts and would agree with a lot of what was said.
I want to comment on the comment about banning smoking. I've been to some of the Pittsburgh bars when my wife was still in college in the burgh, and saw that these places did very well when smoking was allowed, so by saying that they are still doing well doesn't really prove that smoking (or not) had anything to do with it. When smoking was banned in bars in California and in New York, a lot of bars lost a lot of business. I know that there are a lot of bars in Cambria County that would loose a ton of business if they didn't allow people to smoke. Of course, that might attract other customers. Who knows. Either way, the government should never dicate these rules - the bar owner should.
Anyway, I really doubt the smoking thing is the biggest issue - I think it is the moronic .08% laws that are hurting the bars. People don't want to take a chance at getting busted with a DUI.
I know that the DUI thing makes a difference for me if I'm thinking about going out somewhere when we are not playing. The other thing that makes a big difference for me is how late you have to go out to hear a band. Sorry, but when we are not playing, I'm generally asleep by 10 or 10:30 on the weekend. Why do most bars feel that bands can't start until 10:00? Has anyone ever tried to hire live music that would start during the evening around 7:00? Maybe the bar could have a happy hour from 6-8 to try to pull people in and then they would stay to continue to listen to the band. Doesn't the Hitching Post do something like this on Wednesday nights?
Anyway, for me it is the DUI threat and the hours that bars have bands.
I want to comment on the comment about banning smoking. I've been to some of the Pittsburgh bars when my wife was still in college in the burgh, and saw that these places did very well when smoking was allowed, so by saying that they are still doing well doesn't really prove that smoking (or not) had anything to do with it. When smoking was banned in bars in California and in New York, a lot of bars lost a lot of business. I know that there are a lot of bars in Cambria County that would loose a ton of business if they didn't allow people to smoke. Of course, that might attract other customers. Who knows. Either way, the government should never dicate these rules - the bar owner should.
Anyway, I really doubt the smoking thing is the biggest issue - I think it is the moronic .08% laws that are hurting the bars. People don't want to take a chance at getting busted with a DUI.
I know that the DUI thing makes a difference for me if I'm thinking about going out somewhere when we are not playing. The other thing that makes a big difference for me is how late you have to go out to hear a band. Sorry, but when we are not playing, I'm generally asleep by 10 or 10:30 on the weekend. Why do most bars feel that bands can't start until 10:00? Has anyone ever tried to hire live music that would start during the evening around 7:00? Maybe the bar could have a happy hour from 6-8 to try to pull people in and then they would stay to continue to listen to the band. Doesn't the Hitching Post do something like this on Wednesday nights?
Anyway, for me it is the DUI threat and the hours that bars have bands.
A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man; a debt he proposes to pay off with your money. -G Gordon Liddy
First off, I really like these kinds of discussions. Unfortunate they have to
occur, but the insights are really cool.
As for the non-smoking thing, personally, I'd love it and don't think it hurts bars
either. It's been this way in Canada for a good few years and bars are packed.
GRANTED, Canadians like, and know, beer.
I DO know a lot of people don't go to bars because of the smoke so there is
definitely some validity there. I hate smoke but my jacket reeks of it every
time I even stop some place to drop something off.
As for the Popper, I'd love to see it turn into a strong music venue and think
it's well-suited, in no small part because you're is looking into ways of making
it so, which is tré cool.
Paul mentioned in another discussion about promoting when/where you can
and that may seem like such a hassle and not why we got into this, but when
you're the one doing the booking and trying to do all the follow-up, get information
out, etc. and hearing "Did we get ADD WEEKEND HERE booked?" you'll take
what you can and the more ideas you hear the better.
Anyway, I hadn't been to the Popper in a while but stopped last night. It's a
really nice place and has the size to accommodate whatever size events.
I agree with the "get good bands" assessment, certainly, but there have been
some terrific bands in the area in the couple of years since I moved over there
and, to be honest, I don't know of one that's played there.
Believe, me, Chris Kane is always with great bands and he alone brings a
crowd (Another plug for a friend but one who deserves all the credit in the world).
In FaceDown, you had Al Kephart, Kane, Jim Force and Nate Socoski. All of
those guys bring people (Get Al to run sound there and you'll be doing
yourself a big service. The man's great) but they never played The Popper.
For the effort to bring in a national band there's still something to be said
for how many people from the area will come to see people they know and
have seen in bands for years.
After that, people will be more likely to head to the Popper to see who might
be there the next weekend.
Some months ago, friends asked me if I knew who Plush was when they
were playing Mojo's. Said "Yep, and you should go see them". They did and
now every time Plush plays Mojo's, there's a gaggle of drunken women there
to see them that wouldn't have been otherwise. And these are Jeager and
Tequila women.
There ARE still people who like to go see bands but don't know who is where
or when.
Granted, I never hear who's playing at the The Avenue, but I can be fairly
sure that every week, or other week, there'll be someone just because it's
known to be a music venue.
I was there a few weeks ago to see some friends and the wait to get a beer
was too long to make it worthwhile (Sacrilege you say? Alchy.).
I doubt a lot of the people were there specifically to see them but they were
there.
OH YEAH. Lisa! At the very minimum, Yeungling Lager on tap, please.
occur, but the insights are really cool.
As for the non-smoking thing, personally, I'd love it and don't think it hurts bars
either. It's been this way in Canada for a good few years and bars are packed.
GRANTED, Canadians like, and know, beer.
I DO know a lot of people don't go to bars because of the smoke so there is
definitely some validity there. I hate smoke but my jacket reeks of it every
time I even stop some place to drop something off.
As for the Popper, I'd love to see it turn into a strong music venue and think
it's well-suited, in no small part because you're is looking into ways of making
it so, which is tré cool.
Paul mentioned in another discussion about promoting when/where you can
and that may seem like such a hassle and not why we got into this, but when
you're the one doing the booking and trying to do all the follow-up, get information
out, etc. and hearing "Did we get ADD WEEKEND HERE booked?" you'll take
what you can and the more ideas you hear the better.
Anyway, I hadn't been to the Popper in a while but stopped last night. It's a
really nice place and has the size to accommodate whatever size events.
I agree with the "get good bands" assessment, certainly, but there have been
some terrific bands in the area in the couple of years since I moved over there
and, to be honest, I don't know of one that's played there.
Believe, me, Chris Kane is always with great bands and he alone brings a
crowd (Another plug for a friend but one who deserves all the credit in the world).
In FaceDown, you had Al Kephart, Kane, Jim Force and Nate Socoski. All of
those guys bring people (Get Al to run sound there and you'll be doing
yourself a big service. The man's great) but they never played The Popper.
For the effort to bring in a national band there's still something to be said
for how many people from the area will come to see people they know and
have seen in bands for years.
After that, people will be more likely to head to the Popper to see who might
be there the next weekend.
Some months ago, friends asked me if I knew who Plush was when they
were playing Mojo's. Said "Yep, and you should go see them". They did and
now every time Plush plays Mojo's, there's a gaggle of drunken women there
to see them that wouldn't have been otherwise. And these are Jeager and
Tequila women.
There ARE still people who like to go see bands but don't know who is where
or when.
Granted, I never hear who's playing at the The Avenue, but I can be fairly
sure that every week, or other week, there'll be someone just because it's
known to be a music venue.
I was there a few weeks ago to see some friends and the wait to get a beer
was too long to make it worthwhile (Sacrilege you say? Alchy.).
I doubt a lot of the people were there specifically to see them but they were
there.
OH YEAH. Lisa! At the very minimum, Yeungling Lager on tap, please.
DaveP.
"You must be this beautiful to ride the Quagmire."
"You must be this beautiful to ride the Quagmire."
I do have to say that on the bar-owners part, a written contract for each band is a good call, and it is also beneficial for the band as well. That way there is no discrepancy with money, set times, show length, load in times, load out times, song selection, tabs, free drinks, volume, stage "crew",etc. Some bar owners will actually stipulate what type of music that they want the bands to play, and this is more frequent with clubs/legions/etc.
The contract should be given to the band, and a copy kept on hand the night of the performance to ensure that everyone is aware of all rules.
It's a very simple thing to have done.
Make sure when creating the contract that you are dealing with the band member or manager themselves, not a liasion who has no real say in band business.
Bar owners know what type of music works in their establishment. SO find bands that play that type of music and use strong advertising mediums. Have calendars given away at the door with upcoming events.
DO bands like only playing what people want to hear. NO. And why would they....but in regards to being a bar owner, you must do the best you can for your establishment - that's your livelihood. If you are a classic rock style bar, then refrain from hiring the punk or metal bands, and if you are more of a metal establishment, refrain from Top 40 bands - it's common sense, and everyone has a venue to appeal to their own crowd.
Am I saying don't hire new bands that are different. No. But hire bands you know will do well for your bar. It's your livelihood and your job - the bottom line outsells everything else.
The contract should be given to the band, and a copy kept on hand the night of the performance to ensure that everyone is aware of all rules.
It's a very simple thing to have done.
Make sure when creating the contract that you are dealing with the band member or manager themselves, not a liasion who has no real say in band business.
Bar owners know what type of music works in their establishment. SO find bands that play that type of music and use strong advertising mediums. Have calendars given away at the door with upcoming events.
DO bands like only playing what people want to hear. NO. And why would they....but in regards to being a bar owner, you must do the best you can for your establishment - that's your livelihood. If you are a classic rock style bar, then refrain from hiring the punk or metal bands, and if you are more of a metal establishment, refrain from Top 40 bands - it's common sense, and everyone has a venue to appeal to their own crowd.
Am I saying don't hire new bands that are different. No. But hire bands you know will do well for your bar. It's your livelihood and your job - the bottom line outsells everything else.
" don't hire a band, hire a DJ, or let people play the jukebox."
BLASPHEMER! HERETIC! Who let him in here?!? A WITCH!
"Bar owners know what type of music works in their establishment. "
See, I'm not so sure about this. I think a bar owner is quite likely to fall into the
same thing a lot of BANDS fall into and THINK they know. Back years ago the
band I was with booked a few shows at places we figured we'd play and get tighter
and then book elsewhere where our stuff would work better. We were early 90s
stuff (In the early 90s...some of which the band I'm with now does) and most places
only had "classic" rock or more country-type bands because THEY figured that's
what people there wanted.
We pulled in whole, big, new crowds that were glad to hear something (Then)
different than these places had been having and was exactly why they never
frequented the bars.
I think there are enough bands of different types nowadays that it's not so big
an issue as then and please don't think I'm knocking any band of any genre.
Just saying that too much of anything can be, simply, too much.
I agree, totally, that I don't see us going over huge at a Legion or a place that's
only ever had country bands/only has country on the jukebox, etc. I guess. But
your average bar with yer average 20-something girls (I couldn't give a fat rats
flying butt-crack about catering to guys. They'll be in tow) I'd play to anywhere
any time, especially when this current lineup gets rolling at full force (Shameless
plug. So sue me).
BLASPHEMER! HERETIC! Who let him in here?!? A WITCH!
"Bar owners know what type of music works in their establishment. "
See, I'm not so sure about this. I think a bar owner is quite likely to fall into the
same thing a lot of BANDS fall into and THINK they know. Back years ago the
band I was with booked a few shows at places we figured we'd play and get tighter
and then book elsewhere where our stuff would work better. We were early 90s
stuff (In the early 90s...some of which the band I'm with now does) and most places
only had "classic" rock or more country-type bands because THEY figured that's
what people there wanted.
We pulled in whole, big, new crowds that were glad to hear something (Then)
different than these places had been having and was exactly why they never
frequented the bars.
I think there are enough bands of different types nowadays that it's not so big
an issue as then and please don't think I'm knocking any band of any genre.
Just saying that too much of anything can be, simply, too much.
I agree, totally, that I don't see us going over huge at a Legion or a place that's
only ever had country bands/only has country on the jukebox, etc. I guess. But
your average bar with yer average 20-something girls (I couldn't give a fat rats
flying butt-crack about catering to guys. They'll be in tow) I'd play to anywhere
any time, especially when this current lineup gets rolling at full force (Shameless
plug. So sue me).
Last edited by VENTGtr on Thursday Nov 30, 2006, edited 1 time in total.
DaveP.
"You must be this beautiful to ride the Quagmire."
"You must be this beautiful to ride the Quagmire."
-
RobTheDrummer
- Diamond Member
- Posts: 5227
- Joined: Tuesday Dec 10, 2002
- Location: Tiptonia, Pa
I don't want to sound like an asshole or anything, but...
Shouldn't you have thought about these things before opening a bar? Did you have a plan? Did you stick to that plan? What are some of the things that failed for you? What things did you good? You should come up with some kind of plan on what the status of your bar is and why. The only way to fix the problem is to find out what is creating the problem.
Shouldn't you have thought about these things before opening a bar? Did you have a plan? Did you stick to that plan? What are some of the things that failed for you? What things did you good? You should come up with some kind of plan on what the status of your bar is and why. The only way to fix the problem is to find out what is creating the problem.
Good input
Wow, you all are giving a lot of good input. I do value it all...even the ones that I may not agree with 100%.
As far as having the bands that attract....well, this area is so hard to determine that. I think the Band Jam on Dec 30th will help me determine if heavy metal will work or not...we've never really had heavy metal there so we don't know. The others, well, its just hard to tell.
Take Anything Jane for example, (now cameo sky). Great band. Loved them. Loved working with them.. Had them there...a fair crowd...and everyone said they loved them. I think we booked them for like 3 times...tried the downstairs bar and the upstairs bar (we've completely stopped using the downstairs bar). People just didn't come back. Now look at their schedule...they are everywhere. Doing very well in other areas. Why in the heck won't people come back and hear them at the popper?
How about Felix and the Hurricanes? What the heck was up with that night? We had a small crowd. We promoted. (We did not run in the ad bargain due to financial constraints) But we did flyers all over. We surely have a web presence....heck there were people that paid the $5 cover and never went back to listen to them?????
Kyx is the biggest draw for us. We have them about twice a year. But I can not survive on Kyx alone.
I have 4 Days Dirty booked in January. I'm excited about this young band....and I hope the rest of people in the area are as well.
I've been in touch with Plush.
I want to have the 'Canes back too.
You know...I debated about allowing you guys to run the entertainment schedule....let you all decide when you all play....you play for the door. If its really good, we add some more to the take. Promotion would be up to you with the exception that I would continue the online presence with our website and our myspace page. (I sent over 500 messages to folks online for Felix and the Hurricanes) But somehow I don't think it would work for our location.
Keep the input coming....like I said. I'm learning a lot.
As far as having the bands that attract....well, this area is so hard to determine that. I think the Band Jam on Dec 30th will help me determine if heavy metal will work or not...we've never really had heavy metal there so we don't know. The others, well, its just hard to tell.
Take Anything Jane for example, (now cameo sky). Great band. Loved them. Loved working with them.. Had them there...a fair crowd...and everyone said they loved them. I think we booked them for like 3 times...tried the downstairs bar and the upstairs bar (we've completely stopped using the downstairs bar). People just didn't come back. Now look at their schedule...they are everywhere. Doing very well in other areas. Why in the heck won't people come back and hear them at the popper?
How about Felix and the Hurricanes? What the heck was up with that night? We had a small crowd. We promoted. (We did not run in the ad bargain due to financial constraints) But we did flyers all over. We surely have a web presence....heck there were people that paid the $5 cover and never went back to listen to them?????
Kyx is the biggest draw for us. We have them about twice a year. But I can not survive on Kyx alone.
I have 4 Days Dirty booked in January. I'm excited about this young band....and I hope the rest of people in the area are as well.
I've been in touch with Plush.
I want to have the 'Canes back too.
You know...I debated about allowing you guys to run the entertainment schedule....let you all decide when you all play....you play for the door. If its really good, we add some more to the take. Promotion would be up to you with the exception that I would continue the online presence with our website and our myspace page. (I sent over 500 messages to folks online for Felix and the Hurricanes) But somehow I don't think it would work for our location.
Keep the input coming....like I said. I'm learning a lot.
-
RobTheDrummer
- Diamond Member
- Posts: 5227
- Joined: Tuesday Dec 10, 2002
- Location: Tiptonia, Pa
Another thing....don't even worry about bands right now. If you can succeed without bands first, then you can definitely succeed with bands. Point is this: If you depend on bands to keep your business running, you are gonna fail right away. Especially looking at the location. Business is business, make it work, then bring in the bands to create more business after you have it going well.
In my opinion, contracts for bands aren't worth the paper they are written on unless they are willing and able to take the club into litigation. For example... suppose a bar owner has a contract and at the end of the night tells the band that they aren't getting paid because they were too loud, or took a break that was a minute too long. What then? Can a band afford to hire a lawyer who costs more money than the band would have made anyhow?ASB10 wrote:I do have to say that on the bar-owners part, a written contract for each band is a good call, and it is also beneficial for the band as well. That way there is no discrepancy with money, set times, show length, load in times, load out times, song selection, tabs, free drinks, volume, stage "crew",etc. Some bar owners will actually stipulate what type of music that they want the bands to play, and this is more frequent with clubs/legions/etc.
The contract should be given to the band, and a copy kept on hand the night of the performance to ensure that everyone is aware of all rules.
It's a very simple thing to have done.
Make sure when creating the contract that you are dealing with the band member or manager themselves, not a liasion who has no real say in band business.
The key is to be honest and work with honest club owners. Ask other bands what their experiences are with the club. If you're a club owner, you should try to have contacts with other club owners and get their opinions on bands they've loved or hated.
These types of contracts generally keep honest people honest. But as a band or club owner, do you really want to have to deal with holding a contract over one another's heads?
... and then the wheel fell off.
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HurricaneBob
- AA Member
- Posts: 2790
- Joined: Monday Dec 09, 2002
- Location: /root/2/pub
- Contact:
I guess were not a Quality act since we played there Thanksgiving eve and didn't do so well. But we always have great crowds at Bar 53, just couldn't bring them over that night. First time in Houtzdale we didnt expect that much anyways.
Here's a thought, some of you Quality acts make a deal with Lisa and try to help her out with what she needs. A crowd.....
Here's a thought, some of you Quality acts make a deal with Lisa and try to help her out with what she needs. A crowd.....