the altoona scene

[SuffrInLys]

behind the times

i wonder as we make our travels through out the state and the surroundings..why is it that other areas have such a better scene than altoona? we have some of the best original bands playing but for some reason altoona is in the mindset of only listening to cover songs. a lot of the bands that are playing locally are better than bands playing on shows such as headbanger's ball so why are the turn outs the way that they are?

you go to DuBois or Pittsburg, State College (for the most part of what i have scene), and there is a much better response to oringal music.. they don't want to hear what was just in their car. Out of state shows are even better.. West Virginia and Maryland have some of the craziest people checking out the scene and they are of all ages. young and old all rocking out together.. brings a tear to my eye.. i am not in any way saying that cover bands are not talented.. i am not expressing any opinion to that respect.. i am just asking..why can poorly put together cover bands bring in more people than the best original acts? It seems mindless to me

please DO NOT TURN THIS INTO A COVER/ORIGINAL POST

cover bands are talented also.....this is a question about the fans not the bands

[Eldorado]

Are you talking about the entire local scene just a select style of music? I have seen several bands doing originals that getting a great response from the crowd. There has to be a balance though. Most people want to hear music they can sing and dance to. Alcohol and sing-alongs go together like PB&J.
If you were playing for a bunch of musicians you could get away with playing a bunch more originals. I personally love to hear original music. You have to play to your crowd though. If an original band isn't getting the crowd response they think they deserve it may be time to just accept the fact that their original songs may not be that good.

[byndrsn]

What a great response!! I would have to agree!!!

I realize that many people think that the things that they do are the best, but let's be honest and say that most people are too bias!!!

Let’s face it, most people do not want to hear the shit that we “throw together” in the garage!!! Most of what we think is “fun” or “brilliant” or “musical genius” is far from it!!!

People want to hear what they know. They want what they are used to hearing! That is why we all get requests for “Fucking Freebird” at every fucking gig.

Get used to it!! Once you get to the point that you are getting royalty checks every week and your shit-assed video is playing on cable, then you can start to question your fans perspectives!!!

[Eldorado]

I also forgot to point out that the musicians make up the music scene, not the fans. And this is one kick ass community.
It doesn't matter if you play Bass, Lead, run sound, promote, repair or just jam with a few of your drinking buddies. It's about the love of all things music and we are all very dependant on each other. We all need to do our part to preserve the music scene in our area. Alot of our careers depend on it.

[SuffrInLys]

as far as original bands go we get one of the best repsonses around town.. so that would not be the problem..

we go anywhere else though and the people are insane .. moshing, singing along, dancing, going nuts.. it is fucking beautiful..

you stick around town though and you get half the repsonse..

instead of city limits or aldo's you have most people going to 4ds.. and places such as that..

one of you said .. they want to hear what they know.. that is my point.. why go to a bar to hear what you just listened to on your way there?

is altoona that far behind the times to realize that the ones pushing every scene anywhere are original artists ?

go anywhere else as a band playing everyone else's music and you would have everyone leave the bar.. or at the very least back off and sit down...not that there is not talent involved but what is the hold up for altoona?

fuck i could give a shit less if anyone thinks my band itself sucks.. there are alot of others and the same goes for them.. not as big of a crowd.. go a thirty miles away though and you are huge

[Asundor]

Hey Myke I just think Its this whole area in general. Todays music is beatin into everyone's heads, for example you here the same songs on the radio a hundred times a day, a for some reason people still wanna hear that shit when they wanna go out. In all honesty we are mostly a cover band, and are working with original material, I just dont think it matters where you go around here that you can play a song that someone has heard over and over again and they love it, and then you play an original song and they dont even give it a chance to stick in there head just because there not familiar with it they dont wanna hear it. And for some bands more so than others take that personally. Atleast some of the ones I know. It's really a shame that alot of people just wont take the patience or oppurtunity to give local original acts what they deserve. Just my opinion.

[sPiKe]

I believe that Altoona and most of the surrounding areas are stuck in "POPULAR" mode. Has been for some time now. I have been in several bands and played most of this area and can tell ya that most Altoona clubs need to clean up, expand, modernize and also promote.


From a player's point of view, we know that it dont matter where we play as long as it has electricity, beer and a shitter! However, from a viewer standpoint, Finding a parking place somtimes can be a pain in the ass. Parking lots are small around here. Hell, after the band parks the equipment trailers and a few following fans park, All the others have to park illegally or have to walk too far after the show. So where do they go? The 4d's! With each passing year, new shining objects are grabbing peeps attention. (cars, computers, gaming systems and tons of other cool objects) Think of it this way.... if a car dealer never got new cars for 10+ years, how would sales be? If a computer or gamings dealer were still only selling 1985 computers and gaming systems but you could go up town a couple of miles to get the latest models, where would you go? Clubs need to modernize. (updated lighting, tables and chairs, paint, restrooms and parking) These things can only help bands bring in the people. Original acts, depending on the style of music, are kinda limited to where they play around here. Which is sad because these places are the ones that need the updating.

Another thing I have noticed is that original acts have been playing the same clubs in this area way too much. Its gotten better though. I've been seeing all you ariginal acts hooking up and booking outside the state latley. That rocks. Swapping shows and returning to altoona clubs 1 time every other month just might be the way to go. Keeping it fresh is key. We as bands, also need to keep updating. Not everyone wants to see the same show over and over again.

I have listend to about 90% of you original bands music and you all have somthing going for ya. I like it all! Just keep plugging away and aventually things will come together. I am currently working with other guys in putting together an all original band with hopes of working with you all!

Much respect,

Chris

[brokenstrings]

You guys made alot of good points. I believe that the reason why origional music isnt as successful in Altoona as it should be is due to the majority of origional bands being metal bands. Its a shame but most trendy girls 20-30 years old are not into metal. Im pretty sure that and origional hip hop band would do better than any other type of music. I think that most guys would be into a metal band playing the 4d's. I know for sure that all the women would go elsewhere and no one wants to go to a sausage party.

[bassist_25]

That which deserves to succeed, will succeed" - Cadillac car ad

Every quality original band I have seen that payed its dues and stuck it out has seen some kind of success at the end. Are they making the same amount of money as the band playing down at 4D's? No, they aren't. But what they are doing is making people cognizant of their music, and that's the first step of success, whether you're playing originals or covers. Every scene has its own dynamic, and it's up to those who understand simple economics and business trends to be able to take advantage of that. Some cats are living in LaLa land and think that supply creates its own demand. I'm sorry to say that just isn't so. Don't expect immediate recognition for your work.

Some people book two shows in Altoona, and when they aren't breaking fire codes right off the bat, they give up. Altoona is not a quagmire; it just simply forces you to pay your dues. The potential fanbase in Altoona is large and diverse. Throwing a dart at a map of 'Toon Town and then booking the club nearest to the bullseye is not the smartest way to go about things. The all-original death metal band probably isn't going to fly at Burgi's, and the AOR rock band probably isn't going to set attendance records at Aldo's.

I know this is suppose to be about fans, and that is my next point: People don't give the fans enough credit. If you're putting a garbage product up on stage (I know I'm talking about the bands here, but it's still about fans), don't expect to get far. There are many lame cover bands around, but the amount of lame original bands are at least equal. I've seen many of these bands who can't write a hook, can't properly structure a song, can't move beyond two power chord riffs. I see ametuer bullshit like smilie face EQs on cheap ass amps in order to try and make them sound like Triple Rectifiers, creating a nice wall of mud through the FOH. People want to hear quality.

One of my favorite local bands is the Opposition. They are all original. The songs have hooks that could catch sharks. Listen to Finger Linkin' and tell me it's not one of the most catchy local songs that you've heard. There's musicianship; there are vocal harmonies. All of the songs sound distinct from each other. You can tell that they spent some serious time in the rehearsal room structuring their songs. It's a total product, and Altoona loves it!

I know what you're saying: "But Paul, with all this talk of marketing and referring to music as a 'product,' you sound like a corporate guy with an MBA." Maybe so, but that's the objective reality of the situation. We can sit here all day and stroke our egos about how our shit, whether original or cover, is amazing. Then we can blame the apathetic response simply on the crowds being uncultured. I suppose that helps protect our self-concepts and self-esteem. But what does it accomplish? There's a time to be artsy and subjective, and then there's a time to be business-like and objective. Too many cats can't make that transisition, and unfortunately, a lot of great music goes unheard because of it. Great music will stand on its own, but it first needs help finding the podium by which to stand on. Music itself is not an active agent; it needs someone to be an active agent to make the public cognizant of it.

I rambled on more than I intended to when I started this post. Anyways, I began this post with a quote, so I think that I'll end it with a quote, something a little more "local" if you will.

"Pay your dues" - Johnny "Songsmith" Stevens

[bassist_25]

Once you get to the point that you are getting royalty checks every week and your shit-assed video is playing on cable, then you can start to question your fans perspectives!!!

Tom, this line is just brillant. I had to quote it! I agree 100%

[Jim Price]

I think there are any number of factors that play into "why" Altoona is fickle about new and original music. A prominent factor that comes into my mind is the current lack of radio support for new music (other than what I do on Sunday nights) on the Altoona airwaves; if people can't hear it and get turned on to it, they aren't inclined to come out and support it. Since people do hear the hits and classic rock on local airwaves, they are familiar with them and feel more comfortable coming out to see and hear what they know. That's human nature, people feel more comfortable with the familiar.

Also keep in mind that for many people who go out, music isn't necessarily at the top of their list of reasons to go out; socializing, drinking and scoring with the opposite sex is. The mentality for achieving those objectives is to head to places where there is going to be a crowd; so they are more likely to frequent the Dees with a party/cover band or a place with a DJ spinning dance tunes.

As I've stated before on similar threads in the past, I think ultimately the solution to getting more people into supporting original music in this or any other town is: EDUCATION. Keep doing whatever you can to educate the public about who you are and what you do. Keep promoting and marketing your band and music. Keep playing out as steadily as you can so people have opportunities to see and hear your music, and don't forget your name. Stay the course and stay together; longevity builds fan bases and crowds. Use whatever opportunities you can to get the word out on your band and music; from handing out flyers at public gatherings, to advertising in music publications like Pennsylvania Musician, to continually working your Myspace networks; it's about name recognition and getting your name out in front of people as frequently as you can.

And take stock of the support that original music already does have in this town. Although Peter C's closed, Aldo's has steadily emerged as a healthy scene for original music, particularly on the heavier side of the spectrum. Most nights there is a respectable crowd for original shows; five years ago that place was all but left for dead. The Underground TV-sponsored shows have steadily brought out people for original music as well. Continue to nurture and support these shows and situations, and the climate for original music should continue to strengthen locally. Sure, crowds and support for original music can be better, but given where it was five or ten years ago, it could be a lot worse.

[SuffrInLys]

Chris Peter's is a hardworking guy and deserves alot of respect for going to bat for everyone through out the region as do you Jim..

for beyond reason though which seems to be taking stabs (maybe against us maybe against others) but just in case you missed this.. make sure you read up and check out a show before you base an opinion



SECOND OFFENSE - SEVEN (Heartless Mockery Records) Altoona's Second Offense ups the ante across the board on their second studio offering, Seven. Seven is actually a concept album about the Seven Deadly Sins; comprised of seven songs, each titled and dealing with one of the sins - gluttony, greed, sloth, wrath, vanity, lust and envy. Second Offense steps up the brutality, intensity and aggression on Seven's all-out metalcore. Wally Fiedor's drum work constantly pummels with the concussive force of an armored tank division; his punishment is especially lethal on the disc's closing track, "Envy." Meanwhile, Jes Mattern's bass lines malevolently rumble and creep along, swirling and filling in at the foundation of the sound. Brian Faychak's guitar riffs snarl, roar, slash and hack with forceful, violent intensity. All three of these instrumental components effectively construct the harsh and uncompromising backdrops for frontman Myke Long, who ups the ante in his delivery. Myke sounds angrier and more ferocious, and he sells his analytical studies of the mindsets of the Seven Deadly Sins with convincing and confident aggression, clarity, angst and passion. The songwriting and composition are an improvement over the group's Suffer Through Dishonesty debut; these tunes have better-defined plots and direction, and Myke's lyrics are more pointed and focused. Recorded at Altoona's FaceOff Muzik Studios and engineered and mixed by Matt Winrick, Seven sounds appropriately crisp and razor sharp. The components of Second Offense's attack sound appropriately jagged, brash and thunderous, yet balanced; with timely samples, electronics and studio effects fleshing out the presentation to enhance its maximum impact. Second Offense doesn't just step up the brashness and brutality quotients on Seven, but also offers detail, finesse and thought-provoking lyrics and theme. The results are convincingly bristling, powerful, angry and clever. Seven isn't for the faint of heart, but for fans of metal and hardcore, this disc dishes out quality punishment and aggression. Breakable furniture, be forewarned. (The disc can be obtained at the group's shows, or through the group's Myspace site, www.myspace.com/2ndoffense.)

[SuffrInLys]

other than that there were some good ideas through some of these posts. so thank you to those of you who are trying to help and not cut people down!

[Lisa]

You know...Jim's words hit home with me as a venu. I can only do so much....I can get you in the door, but I can't bring you back if you don't connect enough with the crowd to bring them back. You really need to do things like print flyers, or hand out schedules. Face it, I don't care if you promote your next event even if its at another venue because you have our local people in the room...if they start following you to other venues, they will be back to see you at ours.

I was bartending last night when a lady who comes in wiith the same lectures for me continued to tell me that I need to get this band and that band...they are really good she says...but these are bands that do not promote online at all. I never hear anything of them. I can not go on one person's word...I spent a full year doing that and lost big time on our bands. When someone tells me a band is really good and that I should get them in, I immediately come here and to myspace and google. I search. Myspace is good because I can see what your following is like....and I do check out the profiles of the friends because a band from central pa shouldn' t have a bunch of people that just add people to build the list...you can tell true followers from the fake ones.

Does it matter if a band is cover or original....you know...I've had both. And I've had success with both. The only music I've not really tried yet is heavy metal...guess we'll see how that one goes on Dec 30th (makes notes to buy ear plugs ) What can I say, I'm getting old...ha ha ha.

We are heading into our second year of owning The Popper....first year we lost our butts....the second year its been a little better. I cut back on the bands, stripped away the paid dj's completely and we have not had a loosing band night yet this past 8 months. We may not make a lot of money, but we aren't loosing. That's refreshing.

Our crowds are getting very particular. They are not going out due to DUI laws and family life changes in general. They would rather purchase higher priced vehicles and large tv's and video game consoles than to pay the price of beer at bars and cover charges. Its hard to compete with that.

Other than that...did I mention that I'm excited about Felix and The Hurricanes coming to the Popper on Wednesday!?! Oh and the jager girls....lol

[HurricaneBob]

The Canes situation is a little different than the metal scene here in Altoona.
Believe me, ive done metal in this town for about 12 of my years and it was tough. We played Aldos, Sabs and even rented out firehalls and had some great bashes, some of the funnest times iv'e had playing. Did some traveling up and down the coast. But now i have no interest in a record deal and im happy playing as much as i do local.

As far as playing around town, for the last 8 years ive played 4 nights a week minumum and thats no bullshit. What im saying is any band can do this and there is no big secret. Were not breaking any attendance records but were happy with the crowds we get and they come back every week. Some nights all original, some nights covers, mixing it up alot. Play to the fans, learn what they want to hear. Multi genre bands do the best in this town. I love a band with alter ego's in style.

Basically the percentage of record deals sucks for as many bands there are out there. Lets be realistic now, your not going to get signed in Altoona, Hopefully some of you do but i digress. I was thinking for the long haul when i learned other genre's of music. If i stuck to one style i would not be playing today. Many of the guys i look up too, Rick W, Clint C, B Sallards, Randy R, Tim Yingling and John Mckelvey all played in different style bands and are still kicking ass today because of that.
Dave and Paula played the 4d's for 15 years every week, now thats amazing.

Every musician faces one day when something isnt working for them anymore, bands break up and you get tired of the bullshit, many quit and give up. Ive seen to many great players just leave the scene and get a real job.

Nothing against metal but not too many guys in there 40's making a living local pursuing your childhood fantasy of playing an instrument on stage.
Like i said, its up to you when your career is over but it helps to have other styles to fall back on. You might not believe this now but one day it will hit you like a ton of bricks.

I hope im still playing in my 70's.
Bust my balls but im probably playing while your typing.


MMM Jager girls Lisa! Ill be there early!!!

[SuffrInLys]

i saw you guys (the hurricanes) at peter c's a while back you where really good..but anyway i'm not looking to make it big anymore.. yeah it would be nice don't get me wrong but i am 26 (still pretty young in the scheme of things) but i bought a house when i was 22 (i'll be paying on that forever) and there are alot of other bills and personal issues and connections that would make it hard to leave the area.. for altoona, i have a good paying job and i like the people i work with.. not something i want to loose to go on tour for a year playing for next to nothing and losing everything i have worked for just to start over with nothing when i come back..

but for some other people in the area there are chances that will be taken..

four days dirty for example actually tried out for that whole bodog battle and are in second place at the third level of challenges in the DC area.. they have to come in first now to stay in but they are making their way and pushing the boundaries.. also ahisma sunrise is in first and they are from relatively close to our area.. bands that play here from out of town like stuck in kaos are opening for bands like mushroomhead.. killswitch engage.. and countless other national acts.. just these acts don't seem to work as well in town.. we all do well but not as well as we would wish.. greedy i guess!

there is a chance for bands from altoona just it doesn't really seem like in altoona..

i have a dream!!! (haha) where all bands are equal regardless of the cover/original stigma and only based on talent

[MeYatch]

i have a dream!!! (haha) where all bands are equal regardless of the cover/original stigma and only based on talent

I think you would find that in the grand scheme of things, that is the case.

[bassist_25]

I dig a lot of what Bobby just said in his post. There are a certain number of local musicians in the area whom I would refer to as "washed up." Being an older musician doesn't automatically mean that you're washed up pe say. B.B. King ain't no kid and he is considered blues royalty. Like wise, people like Bobby and Johnny Stevens aren't kids (sorry guys, trying to not call you old ), but they are not washed up. They had very successful bands twenty years ago, but they're not trying to relive those days right now. They're doing stuff that's relevant right here and right now in 2006. If you're a good musician, you're just going to evolve and get better as you become older. Rob and I had this discussion after our gig last night.

I dig what you're saying too, Myke, but I don't think that you should write-off Altoona so quickly. I know I've told this story a million times on here, but I guess I'll tell it again anyways. City Limits is starting to become a good venue for us. About two years ago, we use to play there on Fridays. One time it was so bad, we didn't even bother asking Claudio to pay us. We had to step back and reasses our strategy. We put City on the back burner for a while, and spent a year building up credibility by playing Pellegrine's. Then we started seeing success at both venues. The Altoona market is very important. You just have to understand A). How the club owners work and B). How the crowds work. It can be a tough nut to bust, but I think that it's worth it.

[mjb]

probobly just because i'm getting old, but i wish things got rolling a little earlier. ten, ten thirty is a a stretch for me to head out anywhere. eight or eight thirty starts would be kool. go out,drink a couple cold ones home by mid-night. thats the ticket. i would come out a heck of alot more if this was the case and maybe alot of other people might too. when i was in my 20s though i could stay out for a couple days at a time. so .........who knows. i'm thinking its probobly the old thing. ha ha.

[SuffrInLys]

i have heard that alot actually.. when we just played in WV the show started at 9.. we still all played till two though.. but it was nice because we had five bands play each one bringing something new to the picture and bringing their own fans.. there was a big group of people from altoona that went down with us.. it was really cool..

i wish we could get some shows like that here.. another thing that was great was it was 18 and over.. and you could still drink.. no way your pulling that off in PA though.. plcb hates that.. but what can you do?!?!

but anyway i am not dismissing altoona at all but in the grand scheme there are only a few places that have originals... i fucking love ALDO's... we have a good crowd there almost every time we play.. we have the altoonians that have supported us for a long while now and we love them for it and we get some of the college kids coming down and hanging out..that's how i met my girl actually.. hopefully she gets her last couple of credits goes on to be a phsycologist and supports my dumb ass!! haha

last year when we played toys for tots at aldo's there was over three hundred people there same with when we were on the underground tv halloween special last year.. aldo's is a great place to be .. everyone there is really cool.. everyone is friendly and the alcohol prices are some of the best in town..

city is cool too we will be playing there with four days dirty coming up here on the 2nd of dec and i guarentee that will be a damn good show too.. claudio seems like a cool fucking guy. i just gotta get some flyers ready to post every where during their dj nights so i can grab some stragglers who wouldn't usually here music like ours

[ToonaRockGuy]

I dig a lot of what Bobby just said in his post. There are a certain number of local musicians in the area whom I would refer to as "washed up." Being an older musician doesn't automatically mean that you're washed up pe se.

LOL, how true, Paul! Look at the average age of Scream!

[bassist_25]

hopefully she gets her last couple of credits goes on to be a phsycologist and supports my dumb ass!! haha

Dude, psychology majors do it better.

In related news, I've finally decided on what I'm going to specialize in when I go to graduate school.

[SuffrInLys]

ahh what ever that is what i meant!

that's why my job is mostly physical

[BDR]

As with any product, if it's marketable, you should be able to get your message across to the right people, but persistance is key.

Believe me, being in a cover band is not an automatic for drawing big crowds anywhere, least of all in Altoona. It's a tough nut. We've been chipping away at the Altoona market (seriously for about 1 1/2 years) and we're just now starting getting a foothold.

I've always looked at Altoona as a challenge and when you start getting substantial numbers of people through the door, it's a victory won with patience and persistance. Future Bobby makes a good point in mentioning The Opposition. The music is full of hooks and fan base from many genres can appreciate it.

As has been stated by Bobby (Watters, from the present, not the future), the more specific you are with your music style, the more "specific" your crowds will be. This usually translates into smaller crowds, especially in the beginning.

Altoona-based original bands are fortunate to have places like Aldo's to help gain the foothold they're looking for.

r:>)

[BDR]

I hope im still playing in my 70's.

Here, here, brutha ... I'm with you on that one ...



r:>)