I was so surprised!!!

[MeYatch]

In short
As far as MeYatch is concerned: He doesn't care if there is sports, music or music education, doesn't care if he plays music, or is in a band, doesn't care who is president, anything about who runs the government, just doesn't care period-attitude...

If so lets just send your ass of to Iraq then maybe you will when you come back, it people like you that need to start caring.
Sounds to me that your self centered will never keep a marriage together
because its your way or no way (everyone STOP look at MEEEE)
personality its all about me.

You Got A Lot To Learn and no you don't have the world by the balls
When it hits you square in the balls and make you cry like a little girl.....
Good luck in life your going to need it

Wow, its so cool to meet an expert on me over the internet! Thats awesome, where did you get your degree in Mitchonomy?

I have my own opinions on things, and as evidenced by the few times I've bothered to voice them, most of you care as little about mine as I care about your's. Healthy discussion is one thing, but if anyone thinks they are really going to change anyone's mind, they are mentally challenged.

A lot of musicians are dicks, regardless of how good they are at math.

I know, I am one.

I stand by that statement. I barged my unwelcome opinions into this thread because of an innate desire to argue. You can argue against my point, or for my point, but arguing for or against me personally is really pretty stupid don't you think?

The thing that does upset me, is that the schools push hard for thier sports programs and in turn, shit on the band. I've seen it first hand.

I agree Rob, and as I said in the last discussion we had about this I think a lot of the blame rests on the tax payers. Its a lot easier to get everyone excited about football uniforms than it is about a new bass clarinet.

You have a lot of people that played high school sports that still care about the team they play for, still go to the games. Most of the people that come to the concerts put on by the concert band are relatives of band members.
Personally, I know I don't care to go see them.

How many people here have seen their high school's concert band since graduating, and without knowing anyone playing in it?


P.S. (Big Notes)

Am I to take it by your post that one's level of caring and commitment to politics/life/personal hygeine/what-have-you is directly proportional to how much one posts about it on the internet?

[RobTheDrummer]

Not necessarily tax payers, but the fucked up school boards.

[MeYatch]

Not necessarily tax payers, but the fucked up school boards.

who are elected by.....

[Big Notes]

Meyatch wrote...
[quote]I do know what I'm talking about.
I just don't think there's any more reason to get credit for one than the other.[quote]




If you know what your talking about and there's is no reason to get credit
for one than the other...

Well to start, why do you get credit for a language you don't use(latin, spanish, french) in america????
Why do you get credit for English, not a necessity in life???
Why do you get credit for History, its not a necessity???
Why do you get credit for Math, not a neccessity???
Why do you get credit for alot of subjects in school???
gym credit Why????
For that matter why school period???
To do any resonable job, if you can communicate and read and write...
Lets just shut down all radio stations, make it illegal for any music to be played anywhere any sports to be outlawed.
Fun in general will be completly vanish and we can all live in a very boring place....

Come on people, we know better...
We try to makes things better for ourselves and our children.
Anything that can make us happy, help our youth grow and learn,
give ALL of us some fulfillment and satisfaction...
Thats what its about

[MeYatch]

I do know what I'm talking about.
I just don't think there's any more reason to get credit for one than the other.

If you know what your talking about and there's is no reason to get credit
for one than the other...

Well to start, why do you get credit for a language you don't use(latin, spanish, french) in america????
Why do you get credit for English, not a necessity in life???
Why do you get credit for History, its not a necessity???
Why do you get credit for Math, not a neccessity???
Why do you get credit for alot of subjects in school???
gym credit Why????
For that matter why school period???
To do any resonable job, if you can communicate and read and write...
Lets just shut down all radio stations, make it illegal for any music to be played anywhere any sports to be outlawed.
Fun in general will be completly vanish and we can all live in a very boring place....

Come on people, we know better...
We try to makes things better for ourselves and our children.
Anything that can make us happy, help our youth grow and learn,
give ALL of us some fulfillment and satisfaction...
Thats what its about

Firstly, I didn't say "I do know what I'm talking about." That was a quote from plumcrazy, if you choose to argue with me, or attack me personally, please refrain from putting words in my mouth.

secondly,
my point was that you get credit for things that took place during the normal school day, not for things that take place after the regular school day.

Thirdly,
I have NOOOOOO idea what you are trying to get accross with that post.

and lastly,
I never said that people shouldn't participate in music, or participate in sports, I said I don't think a person should get credit for one, and not the other.

[Big Notes]

I do know what I'm talking about.
I just don't think there's any more reason to get credit for one than the other.

If you know what your talking about and there's is no reason to get credit
for one than the other...

Well to start, why do you get credit for a language you don't use(latin, spanish, french) in america????
Why do you get credit for English, not a necessity in life???
Why do you get credit for History, its not a necessity???
Why do you get credit for Math, not a neccessity???
Why do you get credit for alot of subjects in school???
gym credit Why????
For that matter why school period???
To do any resonable job, if you can communicate and read and write...
Lets just shut down all radio stations, make it illegal for any music to be played anywhere any sports to be outlawed.
Fun in general will be completly vanish and we can all live in a very boring place....

Come on people, we know better...
We try to makes things better for ourselves and our children.
Anything that can make us happy, help our youth grow and learn,
give ALL of us some fulfillment and satisfaction...
Thats what its about

Firstly, I didn't say "I do know what I'm talking about." That was a quote from plumcrazy, if you choose to argue with me, or attack me personally, please refrain from putting words in my mouth.

secondly,
my point was that you get credit for things that took place during the normal school day, not for things that take place after the regular school day.

Thirdly,
I have NOOOOOO idea what you are trying to get accross with that post.

and lastly,
I never said that people shouldn't participate in music, or participate in sports, I said I don't think a person should get credit for one, and not the other.

Wait sports activities are after school events.........

Why bother to give credit to any subject period in school subjects......
Why bother with anything beneficial for kids????
Even if its correlative evidence don't you think its worth the chance...
Sports teams take chances all the time to win the big one, some time they work sometimes it doesn't
So don't you think for one moment that its worth a chance to give a kid a chance with music.
One thing that bothers me now. Why do you bother to be in a band?
I bet your a treat to work with....

[MeYatch]

Wait sports activities are after school events.........

Why bother to give credit to any subject period in school subjects......
Why bother with anything beneficial for kids????
Even if its correlative evidence don't you think its worth the chance...
Sports teams take chances all the time to win the big one, some time they work sometimes it doesn't
So don't you think for one moment that its worth a chance to give a kid a chance with music.
One thing that bothers me now. Why do you bother to be in a band?
I bet your a treat to work with....

Why bother to give credit for school subjects?
I really have no answer to this. I suppose its a way to measure accomplishment.

I really do not know the point you are trying to get accross with this.
I kind of get the impression that you are arguing with me, or something, but I honestly have no idea where you are going with it.

Are you saying that someone in the marching band should get credit towards their studies, but someone that plays on the football team should not?
Thats what I dissagree with. Either give credit to all extracurricular activities, or give credit to none of them. They are extracurricular.

I'm still not sure what you are trying to accuse me of thinking. I will attempt to clarify my views:



Do I think that students that participate in music do better in math and science?
There seems to be evidence of that.

Do I think that students that participate in team sports recieve benefits from that?
I believe there is evidence to support this, though I have only done a minimal amount of research to support this claim.


Do I think that playing music causes a person to be better at math and science?
No, I really don't. And I certainly don't think it improved my abilities in that regard. I am pretty good at math, so is my dad, so are all my brothers, and none of them can play a note, and they are all even worse singers than I am. But that's my opinion.


Do I want to force people to participate in music?
no

Do I think people should be prevented from participating in music?
Shit no

Do I think a person that plays music is inherantly better than a person that has another hobby?
no

Do I think people in after school music programs should recieve school credit?
no

Do I think people in after school sports programs should recieve school credit?
no

"One thing that bothers me now. Why do you bother to be in a band?"

Because I WANT to play in a band. I enjoy it. It sure as hell doesn't have anything whatsoever to do with improving my abilities at math....



I hope this clarifies my stance on the issue, because I seriously have no idea what you are arguing with me about.

Now when we can both agree where we stand, you are welcome to argue with me all night long. But I hate to argue about a misunderstanding, when there are so many more fun things we could argue about.

[nakedtwister]

It pisses me off that my kids have to sign a text book out for homework because they dont have enough to go around, but the football team has all new equipment. Our tax dollars working at their best. Don't jeapardize education for sports. I love sports but my girls dont play football. Then we have to pay to get in to watch after we fork over the taxes.

[BDR]

You people obviously don't understand the teamwork and ...

You need to stop calling others, "you people." You are offending me ...

r:>)

[tom]

Why is it that people can't even post about the benefits of MUSIC on ROCKPAGE without it turning into a pissing match??????
WTF!

[BDR]

Hey, incase you didn't realize it, this whole sports vs music came initially from you.

No it didn't. The whole conparison was made in undercoverjoe's initial post. Mitch is making some good points. Stop gang-tackling the guy and actually read his posts.

r:>)

[BDR]

People do not want to read the facts because they find the truth and that they are wrong....Thats a shame Because if you did read these links you would find they are documented studies from Universities and Organizations

Ignorance is bliss.....

I'm not reading the link (because I don't care) I fully believe that music is beneficial, it would be idiotic not to think so.

He doesn't want to read "the facts" because HE ALREADY ACCEPTS YOUR POSITION ON THE MATTER!!! That ends the argument! No need to "read the facts"!!! Duh!

What's next? Selling ice cubes to Eskimos?

r:>)

[getclosertothemusic]

Why is it that people can't even post about the benefits of MUSIC on ROCKPAGE without it turning into a pissing match??????
WTF!

Enough Said.....................

[Capt. Grammar]

If you know what your talking about and there's is no reason to get credit
for one than the other...

Well to start, why do you get credit for a language you don't use(latin, spanish, french) in america????
Why do you get credit for English, not a necessity in life???
Why do you get credit for History, its not a necessity???
Why do you get credit for Math, not a neccessity???
Why do you get credit for alot of subjects in school???
gym credit Why????
For that matter why school period???
To do any resonable job, if you can communicate and read and write...
Lets just shut down all radio stations, make it illegal for any music to be played anywhere any sports to be outlawed.
Fun in general will be completly vanish and we can all live in a very boring place....

Come on people, we know better...
We try to makes things better for ourselves and our children.
Anything that can make us happy, help our youth grow and learn,
give ALL of us some fulfillment and satisfaction...
Thats what its about

If you know what you're talking about and, um ... hmmm.

Nevermind. I give up on this one.

[BDR]

Why is it that people can't even post about the benefits of MUSIC on ROCKPAGE without it turning into a pissing match??????
WTF!

Enough Said.....................

It's not "enough said" when you're distorting someone's point.

r:>)

[MeYatch]

Why is it that people can't even post about the benefits of MUSIC on ROCKPAGE without it turning into a pissing match??????
WTF!

Why is that people feel the need to post about the benefits of music on rockpage? Why is it that people can't accept that there are benefits to other activities?

Is there anyone here that actually plays music because they think it makes them smarter?

In the original post plumcrazy lamented the fact that students don't get credit for being in the marching band. I am completely ok with this.

Its voluntary, its outside of the normal school day, and if music is so freaking beneficial, you shouldn't need any extra credit. I know I had more than enough credits to graduate high school, and I didn't get any for being in the marching band.

[bassist_25]

Wow, I decided to stay out of this thread when the proverbial poo hit the fan, but I'll throw out my two cents here.

1. I know MeYatch in real life. He says what he means and means what he says. Kind of reminds me of myself. LOL I don't think that he intended to piss off people in this thread. But Ed, c'mon, I know you better than that to fly off the handle. I think everyone here respects what you do for the music community and especially young children. There's no need to defend your position so venomously. Which leads me to my next point...

2. If someone claims that research is correlational, don't take offense to it. There's a huge difference between correlational and expiremental research. You're not going to have much control over confounding variables with correlational studies. Also, there's no way to determine causality or direction. Furthermore, there may be issues of construct and external validity with correlational research. I'm sure that there is a correlation with music and intelligence. I'm sure that one's an actual independenent variable and one's an actual dependent variable. Still, the skeptic in me says that there's probably some confounding variables and some directionality problems with some of the research. That doesn't mean that the research is without merit.

3. Who really cares if you get credit for band in school? I mean seriously! I in fact did get a grade for band in high school, and I think it had like a .087834 effect on my GPA. Furthermore, do you really want to objectively grade children on performing music? Band doesn't fulfill a requirement to graduate, so what's the point of giving credit for it? On the other hand, I found gym class to be asinine and a waste of time, yet you need gym to graduate (but you don't have to pass reading). Okay, I digress.

4. Let's all sit down with a family-sized box of Snickers and talk about how important music is to each and everyone of us. I think that's something we can agree one.

[BURK]

WOW... this has changed a lot since yesterday!!!

"I say Goddamn... and Shit"

[MeYatch]

Wow, I decided to stay out of this thread when the proverbial poo hit the fan, but I'll throw out my two cents here.

1. I know MeYatch in real life. He says what he means and means what he says. Kind of reminds me of myself. LOL I don't think that he intended to piss off people in this thread. But Ed, c'mon, I know you better than that to fly off the handle. I think everyone here respects what you do for the music community and especially young children. There's no need to defend your position so venomously. Which leads me to my next point...

don't underestimate my desire to piss people off

2. If someone claims that research is correlational, don't take offense to it. There's a huge difference between correlational and expiremental research. You're not going to have much control over confounding variables with correlational studies. Also, there's no way to determine causality or direction. Furthermore, there may be issues of construct and external validity with correlational research. I'm sure that there is a correlation with music and intelligence. I'm sure that one's an actual independenent variable and one's an actual dependent variable. Still, the skeptic in me says that there's probably some confounding variables and some directionality problems with some of the research. That doesn't mean that the research is without merit.

Exactly, but the conclusions drawn from correlational studies are not facts, as they have been thrown around in this thread.
Who hasn't turned on the evening news to find out some new thing causes cancer?

I truly believe one of the most deceitful phrases in the english language is "studies show..."



I'm not sure if I made this clear enough, but I did get school credit, and a grade for participating in concert band, which took place during regular school hours. I did not get any credit for marching band.

[FretBored]

I'm with you on this.

Why is it that people can't even post about the benefits of MUSIC on ROCKPAGE without it turning into a pissing match??????
WTF!

Yep, typical RP thread. "I know and you don't!" Yadda Yadda Yadda!

[PanzerFaust]

You people obviously don't understand the teamwork and ...

You need to stop calling others, "you people." You are offending me ...

r:>)

You people who get offended easily offend me......

hehe..

[plumcrazy]

I don't really care who I've offended or pissed off. I mearly made a statement at the beginning of this post and someone had to immediately be an ass, but that doesn't surprise me at all.

Seems that is pretty much all that goes on with this site.

There is always someone to shoot down everything someone else has to say.

[MeYatch]

I don't really care who I've offended or pissed off. I mearly made a statement at the beginning of this post and someone had to immediately be an ass, but that doesn't surprise me at all.

Seems that is pretty much all that goes on with this site.

There is always someone to shoot down everything someone else has to say.

waaah

this isn't "agree with everyone page" or "lets all get along page" if you aren't willing to consider another point of view, don't bother to post.

I can only assume that I'm the "ass" it doesn't bother me, I'm willing to consider and listen to everyone's point of view, provided people are willing to listen to mine.

As long as disagreements are held in a reasonable manner I welcome all debate from anyone.



by the way, if you want to accuse anyone of being an ass, I didn't say anything until after you crapped all over undercover joe's post. Just for saying that he doesn't think credit should be given to extracurricular music and not for extracurricular sports. Something I happen to agree wholeheartedly with.

[Banned]

Wow, I am surprised some of my seemingly innocent comments have caused quite a stir. I did not know that some schools gave school credit for being in the school band. I really don't mind if that happens. I do not think credit should be given for extracuricular sports though.

The Hollidaysburg school district only supplied the football equipment when my son reached 7th grade. Before that, it was privately financed (HAFA).

I buy his guitars and amps (actually he used mine, and he now thinks they are his).

Oh, because he is not in the band, he cannot play the shcool's guitars during lunch like his friend who is in the band. Sounds like the school is keeping a student from practicing and learning music because he isn't in the band.

[Big Notes]

I retract and withdrawl all statements/comments/attacks/post I have made in this forum...
Apologies to everyone that I have offened....