Understanding your instrument

[RobTheDrummer]

I figured I would provoke some thought on here. I want to know If anyone here truly understands their instrument. Think about it, there are so many things you can do with any given instrument. Do you really understand the things about the instrument you play?

[FatVin]

Ohhh We wax philosophic.

Understanding is not a destination but a journey.

I think to truly understand your axe is a lifelong-never ending quest. I think an important part of it is understanding who you are and what you want to say. Guys like B.B, King and Tony Iommi and Carlos Santana are always talking about how they are still, even after all this time, students. Well if THOSE guys are all students, what does that make me?

I think it takes a lifetime and the more I play, the more I try to write songs, the more I practice, rehearse and perform, the closer I get to true understanding of myself, my Axe and my universe.

I also think that the limited understanding I do have of this thing called music is absolutley unexpressable in any other form but music, if that makes any sense.

The Tao that can be be told is not the eternal Tao
- Lao Tse, "I Ching"

I also think that everybody will have a different answer and everybody's answer will be right for them, right now. because it can change, the more you discover, the more you see what there is to be discovered.

So endth Philosophy 101

I am curious to know what all of you think.

[bassist_25]

I had this very prolix reply about how I want to understand music on a deeper level like Miles Davis or Jimi Hendrix and how Howard Gardner's 7 Intelligences relate to creativity and I sounded like Kenny Werner's Effortless Mastery book, but I must have timed out and I couldn't post. When I hit the back button my text was gone and I don't feel like typing all of that out again.

So I'll just say that I rather understand "Music" rather than just "Bass", because as Scott Thunes has said, it doesn't matter what you play, you are a musician no matter what instrument you choose to express yourself.

[songsmith]

I think I understand the instruments I play on certain levels, but I can't pretend to fully understand any of them. I view them all as voices, or different tools for different jobs, but it goes beyond such simple descriptions as I could impart.
This is a good topic, very trancendental. I certainly don't make any claim to understand guitar on a musically technical level, I wish I did... remember in that movie, Amadeus... Salieri says, (paraphrasing here) "Why has God given me the ability to recognize perfection, but denied me the means to achieve it?" That thought hit me extremely deeply, like an epiphany. I know what moves me, what is "good," and yet I seldom feel as if I've been "good." Part of music's appeal to me is that one minute, I'm soaring on the crest of a wave of applause, and in a split-second, I can be humbled by failure. Couple that with the sheer power and even beauty of playing (or listening to) music, and you get a small idea of just what the art form is capable of.------>JMS

[The Face in the Face]

Don't be fooled into thinking you need to fully understand your instrument. Your instrument is an extension of you. You don't understand your knees, but you can run. You don't understand your jaws, but you still talk. Sometimes trying to hard to understand opens you to more ignorance. The harder you look for something, the more elusive it becomes.

Relax and let it flow.

I don't read music, know theory, or have ever been classical taught how to play the guitar. I understand that I don't understand and use it to my advantage.

Look eastward, my fellow members, for the answer lies where you mind is drifting.

[Ron]

In some ways I believe that NOT knowing the technical aspects of playing an instrument can be a good thing. Perhaps it frees you from the "box". A novice may go way... way out on the edge. I guess it depends on how you are learning.

I often see music theory compared to language skills... that not knowing music notation is like not knowing how to read or write. This comparison applies to some aspects, but overlooks the most important thing... the audience. In music, the audience needs to know nothing about music to enjoy it. That doesn't happen with written or spoken language. A creative person who doesn't know an 'A' from a hole in the ground can sit down with a guitar and make something listenable come out of it... eventually.

Theory and notation are great tools if you have the music "in your head" and need a means to put it on paper. If you don't have it "in your head", then no amount of training, practice, or understanding of the instrument will put it there. It's just something that can't be learned.

[J Michaels]

this is summed up by something Keith Richards said on VH1 once - sitting on a plane holding his guitar, he's talking to the camera about music and its power and why he still loves to play - he looks at his guitar and says, "There are still mysteries in here."

[T-bone]

hey rob you need to give the whole know your instrument and what you owe a break and grow a band. nobody cares about your posts. Yeah your good but you'll have to let the swelling go down in your head and make room for people that have somthing cool and useful to post

[I Hate Hate Haters]

[nighthawk]

yawn....

"As the Rockpage Turns"
Season 2

anyways... Rob, i love my baby, i play it as much as it plays me, so i guess there is a good understanding there. either that or i have no idea whatsoever. maybe i dont care to understand it.. i lost myself....i dunno.. I dont think about it and surely dont question it, but thats just me. Im retarded

Rob
1. Id grow a band with ya... youre a good musician..

2. Obviously nobody cares about your posts, you know, because nobody replied! yeah thats it, we dont care at all, so we dont reply!! or something (i hope you realize this is sarcastic)

I should make a rockpage Flash Movie comedy... theres alot of characters here any artists in the house?


I just realized i didnt log out of nighthawk's name... just so you all know

THIS IS COLTON F#$*%NG FOUSE
(yes, the active retard)
i wish that was my middle name!!.. that would be awesome!...can i get that done?

[Punkinhead]

Here is my take

NO ONE, NOT ONE person has ever 100% understood an instrument, technicality wise. guitar wise-Jimi Hendrix? i never heard him sweep an arpeggio...steve vai? never communicated as well as hendrix and no where near as fast as other shredders...so technincally, no one has ever fully understood....

now communication wise...hmm thats tougher...you understand what you know....b.b. king understands blues because of where he's from...jimi hendrix could make a guitar sound like vietnam. chuck shuldiner could make you want to kill someone but, still they arent complete in their understanding really...there is always more anyone can or could have done....

as long as humans are playing 100% understanding is impossible....my two cents

[Colton]

jimi hendrix could make a guitar sound like vietnam. chuck shuldiner could make you want to kill someone

Ok, im under my name...
I wonder what i make my guitar sound like? if it sounds like what i put into, i hate to think alot of people go home pissed off and decently depressed from hearing it....

(Members name nighthawk need not express their opinions about the following:)

Has anyone heard me? whats it make you think of? Feel free to be mean, i dont care! (that post got me thinking... thankz... my brain is gonna overload and crash If any of you sofware pirates have a "Brain Defragmentation Program" or maybe something to make ghost images of my noggin so i can back it up, email it to ..... argh.... n/m

Marilyn Manson said (yeah, even Manson had a good quote)
"Your enemies can be your biggest fans"

That might even apply to Tool...

[rickw]

It's a great question Rob. I loved the Keith Richards quote. But, ya know, just when I think I've come to know the guitar, the damn thing goes and plays lotsa wrong notes, all in a row no less! So maybe I'll never quite know the instrument but we're still friends!!

[ToonaRockGuy]

This is a great topic, despite what some buttmunches *coughT-Bonecough* try to spew. I had the honor of meeting Rob at the first Rockpage Benefit show, and I met a very intelligent man who blew me away on the drums. I like to think that I understand my instrument, but every time I get complacent, I see someone playing, or hear a lick that just blows me out of the water, and then I have to spend the next 3 weeks trying to figure it out.

I've been playing drums for 31 out of my 35 blessed years on this earth, and I still am learning. The instrument teaches you how to be, not the other way around.

Music is an amazing and wonderful beast that we are all trying to tame, and no matter who we are, from Hendrix to Satriani, from Claypool to Sheehan, from Portnoy to Peart, nobody, and I mean NOBODY, will ever have the talent to truly master this thing called music. I draw my breath and my life from my instrument, and it has so much to teach me.

That's why I do my damndest to go out and see the musicians this area has to offer. I can always learn something from watching a band, and their drummer, and take that small lick, tiny flamadiddle, or something cool that they used, and mold it into my own playing. I have so much to learn...

[Ronnyd]

The only thing I know for sure is the more you learn,the more you realize there is to learn.This applies to everything I've ever done!
I must say ,I understand more now then when I started.
But I've learned from anyone I've ever watched or heard.
Life is short,live well,cherish everything and every-one.

[wake up drumming]

Hmmmm, interesting thread. I too have been playing drums for a really, really long time. (about 25 of my 31). I know for damn sure that I still don't really understand everything about drums. I feel competent and comfortable and yes I have learned a lot, but obviously not everything. I WOULDN'T WANT TO. For me, playing is an expression of my thoughts and emotions through my instrument. It's not always about being the most technical or complex.

Some musicians play straight from the rule book, others play straight from the heart.

[lonewolf]

Quote:
The Tao that can be be told is not the eternal Tao
- Lao Tse, "I Ching"

When it comes to understanding my instruments, it seems like "CHA CHING" would be more appropriate.

[RobTheDrummer]

Hey, my whole take on this thing is the more you know about your instrument, the more musically you can become. I feel that if you don't know anything, you can still be a great musician, I never said anything negative on the initial post, but If you know the instrument to the best of your abilities, what can be wrong with that. Say for instance that someone is already a heart felt great musician, but they don't know any thing about their instrument. How can they go beyond what they don't already know. Seriously, I consider myself to be a technical drummer because I worked for years on rudiments and technique, but this does not mean I have no inside musical feel. I always have an inner lust for my instrument, that is why I pursue to know as much as I can. I will never understand my instrument to the maximum, nobody will, my whole point is that if someone has abilty without knowledge, then how far can they go? If someone has knowledge without ability, where will they go? If someone has knowledge and ability, there's no telling where they will end up. Just something I thought of to throw at you. You know, just to show off and be big headed. always remember that in music, nothing is concrete.

[grimmbass]

Knowing more about your instrument is akin to increasing your vocabulary.

The more words you know and understand, the more levels of subtlety and intensity you can add to your conversation. The same is true of music...however, sometimes less is still more, and a truly intelligent person can still get his point across with a minimum of words. An example: All three members of Rush are master-craftsmen at progressive rock...they paint audio masterpieces. However, the last 10 years have seen their albums become progressively simpler, with more subtleties. They have the musical vocabulary, but are much more selective with the sentences they construct.

The more you know, the more choices you have.

My beautiful red Spector bass is as compelling as any woman I have ever met.....every time I think that I've mastered her or figured her out, she challenges me. She feels different in my hands....she speaks different sounds....she pleases and frustrates me and shows me how much I have yet to learn. Being a musician is like being on a trip with your favorite mistress (instrument) and not knowing where you're going to end up.

But hey, the trip IS the point, not getting there:)

Kent

[DMFJ03]

The only real thing to understand is that it is music, and if you love what you are doing...what else is there to understand?

[bassist_25]

An example: All three members of Rush are master-craftsmen at progressive rock...they paint audio masterpieces. However, the last 10 years have seen their albums become progressively simpler, with more subtleties. They have the musical vocabulary, but are much more selective with the sentences they construct.

You know, at the Rockpage Benefit I started talking to ToonaRockGuy about who our favorite musicians are. He mentioned Chris Layton which I thought was really cool because I'm a big Tommy Shannon fan. He said about how tasteful of a drummer he is and that made me bring up one of my philosophies on music. I think when guitarists start playing they want to be Steve Vai, when bassists start playing they want to be Victor Wooten, and when drummers start playing they want to be Mike Portnoy. But as everyone matures on their respective instrument, things change; guitarist now want to be Robben Ford, bassist want to be Paul McCartney, and drummers want to be Buddy Rich. I think as any musician matures, they understand "tastefulness". It might be cliche to say, but it's "Not how many notes you play, but how well you play them". Just because you don't play it, doesn't mean you don't know it. Hell, if you listened to a Helmet CD, you would never know that Page Hamilton is actually a Jazz trained guitarist who can play Wes Montgomery type of stuff. I've had many of argument with shredheads who equate the most technical player as the best player. Music can't be that objectional.

As far as Rush, I always thought that Alex Lifeson was a very tasteful guitarist. He plays technical stuff without becoming "wankey". I've been that way with all of Rush, though. Usually when someone mentions the term "Prog Rock" the next word that pops into their head is "wank". But I've never thought of Rush as wank. Even their early material. Maybe it's because they are a 3 piece, but all of them are great at playing busy, while still keeping off of each others toes. But the important thing is, Rush writes great songs. I think that's the most important thing. If you don't have a great song, all of the chops in the world is not going to save you. But I do dig the wankey Prog stuff like Dream Theater, King Crimson, Spock's Beard, Gentle Giant, Yes, ect.

[RamRod 1]

I don't think I'll ever understand my insturment or women but they're so much fun!

[bassist_25]

I don't know. I always disagreed with the thought that theory hinders creativity. I also don't think that knowing theory is just grounds for being an elitist. I've met people who were elitist because they don't know theory. Whether theory hinders you or not all depends on how creative you are to begin with. I want to play the sounds that are in my head and I want to explore every avenue possible to realize those sounds. If picking up my instrument and just "going with it" helps me realize this idea, great, but if another idea requires me to go on a head trip about it, then that's what I have to do. The art is what's important, the rest is just a means to an end. I wasn't blessed with perfect pitch so sometimes I have to fall back on my other skills to realize the music I want to play. It's also an invaluable tool when improvising. If I'm playing over a dominant 7th chord, I already know that a mixolydian scale is going to work over it. If I didn't know that, and I'm improvising, I might play something that is a total clunker. I'm not a theory head, but I also don't think it should be disregarded. Certain styles of music (i.e. Jazz, Classical) pretty much require you to have an understanding of theory/technique before you begin playing.

Also, it's funny how your ear develops more and more as you grow as a musician. It's so much more easy for me to hear different things in music now. Interval recognition is something that is constantly growing with me. I might hear a song and say "Hey, he just played a minor 3rd interval" or "Hey, that was a Sus4 chord". It's great because it really speeds up the process of learning songs by ear.

Well, enough of this tangent.

[esa]

Just a quick thought on this. It's not technical or anything, so please don't be offended. I took a year of piano lessons and then my teacher disappeared (she got married and I lost track of her). I taught myself from then on. Several years later, I went to a few more lessons and was told that I knew everything, couldn't be taught anymore and I was on my own to get shined up and perfect it. Fair 'nuff. I took five years of flute (honestly wish I still played it). I got taught the basics from four different people on how to play the guitar (from power chords, to real chords, to reading music, to learning to try Blues Rifts...ugh). I've been singing on stage, in churches, and in the shower for forever. I'm getting my butt kicked with my bass guit. right now.
I like to think of myself as a guitar player. I have a long ways to go. The one thing my dad told me when he was showing me my first few chords still stuck with me. He's an awesome guitarist and singer. He's been with his band for more years then I can remember. And when someone says to me, "Wow.. that's soo cool! You play the guitar!" the first words out of my mouth are my dad's words. "I play well enough to amuse myself, and that's all that matters."
So I think no matter how long you've been playing or how good you are or aren't...there's always some one that will tell you that you suck or that you are greatest musician alive. And there's always something more to learn about your instrument. Always something new to try and experiment with. The day we stop learning and knowing...even being in awe of our instrument...that is the day music goes flat.