I was so surprised!!!

[plumcrazy]

I was at the Tyrone football game tonight where they played against Johnstown and was so very surprised at how small the band was for both schools. Saddens me to see that this is happening.

Something else I found out that is disturbing - band programs in most of the schools are extracuricular, the participants receive no credit at all for being in the band like they used to.

[bassist_25]

I sort of have an ambivalent feeling when I think back on playing in the high school band. It taught me a lot of important things, and I think that my musical education afterwards went more smoothly. But I remember a lot of not so fond memories. I was once suppose to do a piano solo that was forgotten about when it was time for my name to be called. I ended up quitting after that, and didn't start playing again until I was asked to do a musical (Grease) and jazz band a few years later. I remember saying here a few weeks ago that I got to play some of my own guitar and bass solos doing that and it was really cool to see my name amongst the composer credits on the programs. I wouldn't say that it was a totally negative experience and I wouldn't say that it was a totally positive experience. I'm thankful for the early education I got from it, but I really didn't want to be there of my high school years.

Ironically, I didn't get the senior superlative in the yearbook as "Most Musical," though I'm probably the only one from my graduating class to actually do something with music afterwards.

[Banned]

I was at the Tyrone football game tonight where they played against Johnstown and was so very surprised at how small the band was for both schools. Saddens me to see that this is happening.

Something else I found out that is disturbing - band programs in most of the schools are extracuricular, the participants receive no credit at all for being in the band like they used to.

I played sports every year in high school and never recieved a single credit. If sports are extracuricular, there should be no difference with being in the band.

[VENTGtr]

At my son's elementary school the kids in elementary band have to buy
the instruments. Not sure what it's like at most schools, but from the others in this area, that seems to be odd.

Guess it used to be different at his school as well but because of budgeting
issues the last few years that's something that's had to change.

SO, I'm surrounded by the lovely sounds of a 10 year old learning clarinet.

Mercifully, found a great deal for a good one on E-Bay so I was spared the
the full, big name music store cost.

He also has a strat, so there's that hope. But, if he goes a Glenn Miller direction rather than a Kenny G. route, should be okay.

[plumcrazy]

I was at the Tyrone football game tonight where they played against Johnstown and was so very surprised at how small the band was for both schools. Saddens me to see that this is happening.

Something else I found out that is disturbing - band programs in most of the schools are extracuricular, the participants receive no credit at all for being in the band like they used to.

I played sports every year in high school and never recieved a single credit. If sports are extracuricular, there should be no difference with being in the band.

Did sports offer you the same benefits that music offers?

Did sports help you improve your math skills?

Did sports help you improve your reading and comprehension skills?

Did sports help you improve your test scores?

Did sports help your brain activity increase to help with school work?

Did sports help with your S.A.T. scores?

Music does. Music wasn't always considered an extracuricular activity, it only became that way because of the political aspects of the school officials and the government.

Check out the other benefits that music has to offer at www.getclosertothemusic.org.

How many of these can sports help with?

I'm not knocking sports. Sports are wonderful activities for kids, but they don't offer benefits like music does.

[MeYatch]

I'm not knocking sports. Sports are wonderful activities for kids, but they don't offer benefits like music does.

thats a matter of opinion, I think you would find in a lot of jobs where you work in groups a person that has played a team sport in the past would do better than someone who hasn't. A lot of musicians are dicks, regardless of how good they are at math.

I know, I am one.

[RobTheDrummer]

I'm not knocking sports. Sports are wonderful activities for kids, but they don't offer benefits like music does.

thats a matter of opinion, I think you would find in a lot of jobs where you work in groups a person that has played a team sport in the past would do better than someone who hasn't. A lot of musicians are dicks, regardless of how good they are at math.

I know, I am one.

Actually, it's not an opinion, it is a fact that you benefit intellectually from music.

[plumcrazy]

I'm not knocking sports. Sports are wonderful activities for kids, but they don't offer benefits like music does.

thats a matter of opinion, I think you would find in a lot of jobs where you work in groups a person that has played a team sport in the past would do better than someone who hasn't. A lot of musicians are dicks, regardless of how good they are at math.

I know, I am one.

It is fact. Check it out yourself. Just because you play a sport doesn't mean that you are any more intelligent than anyone else, however, there are many facts and proven statistics that musicians are. Music makes you smarter. FACT

[BURK]

I agree with MeYatch though... We all know what happens when a "Non-Team Player" ends up in your band...

I played team sports through high school, which helped me get ready for six years in the ARMY, both of which have always helped me to be a positive factor in a band environment, and now an engineering environment...

The people who played in the band are probally better musicians than me, but I think being a team player is just as essential to the rest of your life as playing in the band...

And I have done research on the positive effects of music in education, so I know those stats too...

Just my opinion...


GO STEELERS!!!

www.myspace.com/lowjackmusic

[RobTheDrummer]

You people obviously don't understand the teamwork and comradory that is neccessary for a marching band, orchestra, and jazz band. You have to work hard and together to keep it tight. Much moreso than you would think, so check yourself again on the teamwork thing.

[getclosertothemusic]

This is sad in this area that there are people that have NO clue what music and music education can do for our communities youth...

Yes sports are team oriented and work together as one but, MeYatch,
Undercoverjoe and any one else you want Facts----you got them-----

Here is your facts Sirs.....

On just one search engine (Google) reply of benefits of music
Fact....32,000,000+ search results returned.
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=n ... s+of+music

Not enough???

1) http://www.childrensmusicworkshop.com/a ... efits.html
2) http://www.musictheory.halifax.ns.ca/wh ... heory.html
3) http://www.sfn.org/index.cfm?pagename=b ... ndTheBrain
4) http://www.mozarteffect.com/learn/read.html
5) http://www.menc.org/information/advocate/facts.html
6) http://www.playapiano.com/benefits.html
7) http://www.sinfonia.org/MMM/benefits.htm
8 ) http://www.musicfriends.org/benefits.html
9) http://myweb.ecomplanet.com/lmta5781/my ... ge0006.htm
10) http://www.musictherapy.org/faqs.html

Please go read them, these are facts.....
Need more, will be more than glad to guide you to them sirs
Thank You
GCTTM

[RobTheDrummer]

Another thing I thought of is this: In football, you don't always get to play. There are a lot of benchwarmers out there. In band, everyone gets to play. You also get to play the instrument that you choose.

[MeYatch]

I did play in the marching band in high school. I'm fully aware of exactly what its like.

I actually didn't play team sports in high school, I ran track, but that's pretty individual.


I still refuse to listen to one side of an argument without someone voicing the other one.

I do not think there's been a comprehensive study that says "playing in the marching band is better for kids than playing team sports" I don't think there ever will be, because I don't think its something that can be proven.

There's benefits to each activity. Music is what I chose to do in high school, and continue to do, and I sure as hell don't think I'm any better than the people that played football because of it.

[MeYatch]

and there is a huge difference between FACT and CORRELATION, look it up yourself.

[RobTheDrummer]

Hey Meyach, check this link out and tell me music is not beneficial at a young age.

http://www.childrensmusicworkshop.com/a ... efits.html

[MeYatch]

I'm not reading the link (because I don't care) I fully believe that music is beneficial, it would be idiotic not to think so. But saying that sports are not beneficial is equally idiotic.

I think America could benefit from more people playing sports, we as a nation are lazy fat bastards.

My brother plays football, and in the concert band. I think its important to be well rounded not say "ooh I'm better than you becuase I play music or I play sports"

[RobTheDrummer]

I'm not reading the link (because I don't care) I fully believe that music is beneficial, it would be idiotic not to think so. But saying that sports are not beneficial is equally idiotic.

I think America could benefit from more people playing sports, we as a nation are lazy fat bastards.

My brother plays football, and in the concert band. I think its important to be well rounded not say "ooh I'm better than you becuase I play music or I play sports"

Hey, incase you didn't realize it, this whole sports vs music came initially from you. We never said sports weren't beneficial, just that music is very important and that people don't realize it. This whole post was created as a concern about MUSIC programs.

[getclosertothemusic]

I'm not reading the link (because I don't care) I fully believe that music is beneficial, it would be idiotic not to think so. But saying that sports are not beneficial is equally idiotic.

I think America could benefit from more people playing sports, we as a nation are lazy fat bastards.

My brother plays football, and in the concert band. I think its important to be well rounded not say "ooh I'm better than you becuase I play music or I play sports"

People do not want to read the facts because they find the truth and that they are wrong....Thats a shame Because if you did read these links you would find they are documented studies from Universities and Organizations

Ignorance is bliss.....

[MeYatch]

I'm not knocking sports. Sports are wonderful activities for kids, but they don't offer benefits like music does.

I already quoted that the first time, but it sounds like an argument that music is more benefitial than sports are.



I can't believe I'm taking the time to do this....

Secondary students who participated in band or orchestra reported the lowest lifetime and current use of all substances (alcohol, tobacco, illicit drugs). Texas Commission on Drug and Alcohol Abuse Report. Reported in Houston Chronicle, January 1998

This is correltative evidence, not causal evidence, please learn the difference

The very best engineers and technical designers in the Silicon Valley industry are, nearly without exception, practicing musicians. Grant Venerable, "The Paradox of the Silicon Savior," as reported in "The Case for Sequential Music Education in the Core Curriculum of the Public Schools," The Center for the Arts in the Basic Curriculum, New York, 1989

this is also correlative evidence

A study of 237 second grade children used piano keyboard training and newly designed math software to demonstrate improvement in math skills. The group scored 27% higher on proportional math and fractions tests than children that used only the math software. Graziano, Amy, Matthew Peterson, and Gordon Shaw, "Enhanced learning of proportional math through music training and spatial-temporal training." Neurological Research 21 (March 1999)."

This is also correlative evidence, it also gives no indication as to wether these improvements last or not.

I could basically do this all day, the rest of the "evidence" listed on the site appears to be mostly the same, as well as quotes from obviously biased people.

Just for shits and giggles:

There is no denying the benefits of participating in sports. Aside from the obvious health benefits that come with activity and exercise, research shows that there are strong physical, social and psychological rewards associated with competition.

People do not want to read the facts because they find the truth and that they are wrong....Thats a shame Because if you did read these links you would find they are documented studies from Universities and Organizations

Ignorance is bliss.....

these are documented studies from universities and organizations that show a correlation between participation in music and educational benefits, they don't prove anything, its up to an individual person to decide wether they want to believe them, or not, follow the reccomendations, or not.

There are also documented studies from universites and organizations that show a correlation between a number of different things, here's one that shows talking on a cell phone lowers your sperm count, lets all throw our phones away, because there was a correlative link between the two.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5316074/

There are other factors that can never be completely taken into account in things like this. People that spend a large amount of time talking on cell phones probably have higher stress than people that don't, and people that choose to participate in music may be predisposed to do better in math.


I don't really care, I'm going to do what I want to do, you'll do what you want to do, and any kids any of us may or may not have will do what they want to do.

if I had a kid that had his heart set on playing sports and no interest in playing music, I'm not going to force them because of some supposed increases in math ability. Team sports offer benefits as well, its up to any person to decide what is more beneficial, or do both, its a free freaking country.

[MeYatch]

I hate for it to appear that I've got a hair up my ass about something I really don't care a whole lot about.

Like I said before, I didn't even play team sports, and I was in the concert and marching band all through high school, I continue to play music now.

insinuating that I don't think there are benefits to music is stupid. I just like to play devils advocate, and I think its a considerable waste of time to try to convince people on a music site of the benefits of music. have you ever heard of the expression "preaching to the quoir"?


I often wonder if this whole argument gets brought up because of inferiority complexes brought about in high school.......

[plumcrazy]

No one said anything about forcing a child to play a musical instrument over playing a sport and yes it is up to the individual as to what they want to do.

My point to this whole thing which was clearly blown way off course, was the fact that the high school bands are getting smaller and that participants are not even given credit for participating like they used to be.

I never mentioned anything about sports not being beneficial and I never mentioned anything about forcing kids to go in one direction or another.

It also absolutely amazes me how people get very defensive about something that they say they don't care about. I'm not an expert and I don't claim to be, however, I do know what I'm talking about.

[MeYatch]

No one said anything about forcing a child to play a musical instrument over playing a sport and yes it is up to the individual as to what they want to do.

My point to this whole thing which was clearly blown way off course, was the fact that the high school bands are getting smaller and that participants are not even given credit for participating like they used to be.

I never mentioned anything about sports not being beneficial and I never mentioned anything about forcing kids to go in one direction or another.

It also absolutely amazes me how people get very defensive about something that they say they don't care about. I'm not an expert and I don't claim to be, however, I do know what I'm talking about.

Yes, you are right, my high school's marching band is smaller than it was when I was in it. They also aren't as good.

I never got credit for being in marching band, I did get credit for concert band too. Just like you don't get credit for extracurricular sports, and you do get credit for gym class.

I just don't think there's any more reason to get credit for one than the other.

[Big Notes]

In short
As far as MeYatch is concerned: He doesn't care if there is sports, music or music education, doesn't care if he plays music, or is in a band, doesn't care who is president, anything about who runs the government, just doesn't care period-attitude...

If so lets just send your ass of to Iraq then maybe you will when you come back, it people like you that need to start caring.
Sounds to me that your self centered will never keep a marriage together
because its your way or no way (everyone STOP look at MEEEE)
personality its all about me.

You Got A Lot To Learn and no you don't have the world by the balls
When it hits you square in the balls and make you cry like a little girl.....
Good luck in life your going to need it

[RobTheDrummer]

The thing that does upset me, is that the schools push hard for thier sports programs and in turn, shit on the band. I've seen it first hand.

[getclosertothemusic]

The thing that does upset me, is that the schools push hard for thier sports programs and in turn, shit on the band. I've seen it first hand.

This is Exactly what we are talking about.....
Thank you Rob, I know you seen that first hand...