Warning ! Political Thread . What is (was) Bush Thinking ?

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Thursday Oct 05, 2006

bassist_25 wrote:Actually, our forefathers were deists and unitarians.

I only had one father (humor, arh, arh). Do you mean "founding fathers"?

Like everything else, some were, some weren't.

AtoMikEnRtiA · Post by **AtoMikEnRtiA** » Thursday Oct 05, 2006

okay, all previous arguments aside for just this moment.. you all have brought up the founding fathers of this country.. and what they founded this country on, what they bled, and sweat, and cried for.. all their hard work and danger they placed on their lives.. and i truely appreciate that, but in all honesty - do you honestly feel that for the rest of this nation's existance.. we should continue to tow completely in line with the ideals these men had to the exact point of their statements.

are we not allowed to deviate slightly, while still upholding their values and ideals in mind.. granted, a radical change is what we have been looking at. in my honest opinion, neo-conservatism is the furthest thing from what our founding fathers wanted.. equality, unity, liberty.. neo-conservatism practices facism, oppression, and degredation.. but are we not allowed to deviate to suit the needs of our time, and our world..

you honestly know what i think some of you want this world to be? Pleasantville. Yeah - a black and white world in which everything is pleasant, harmless, and ignorant to the differences we face every day. I truely feel the majority of you want to ignore the rest of the world, and I feel that is the stance the US takes on any issue that they do not benefit from.. but there's an entire world out there.. that we need to embrace, differences in race, creed, orientation, sex, religion.. can you honestly tell me you wish everybody to be white, protestant.. what would be the purpose to life.. and if you go by your beloved bible.. the world was like that once.. then man tried to reach god, and he smited them down, and created language barriers..

religion, no religion - god, no god. ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL. That should be the charge that we follow, and abide by. That should be the cry we adhere to. Instead of concentrating on whether gay couple should be allowed to marry, or whether gun control should take place or not.. we should concentrate on what really matters.. THE PEOPLE!

Why can't we embrace change? Choose alteration over continuity, in this country - technology has taken us from your average country into a super power (for the record, I no longer feel we are a super power).. Technology has revolutionized this country on 3 specific levels.. 3 times we have industrialized ourselves, and CHANGED.. DEVIATED from what we once knew.. We went from horseback to wagon.. from wagon to train, and train to car. Our 1 room schools have become institutions that register in 3, 4 thousand student occupancies. Cow College has changed and become the PENNSYLVANIA STATE UNIVERSITY. Change occurs, every day amongst the citzenry, and technology guiding this country.. so whats the big fucking ta-da if we deviate the simplest little bit in our policy, and how we approach this country.. Our founding fathers, changed radically.. why did they leave England? the pursue religious freedom.. RELIGIOUS FREEDOM..

RELIGIOUS FREEDOM is the NUMBER ONE reason that GOD should be taken out of the pledge of allegiance, and out of school. We are FREE to choose our Religion, or FREE to be partaking in Religion. In England,.. if you got caught skipping church - you went to jail. In this country.. you were free to do whatever, practice, dont practice. Be Catholic, Quaker, or Atheist.. BE WHATEVER. In today's day and age.. you are free to be Islamic, Christian, Deist, Atheist, Catholic, Jewish, whatever you want.. and that is why I feel GOD should be taken out.. because GOD is not the Universal term.. and even if it was.. not all of us are believers..

I'll give the religious as much as I can. If they wish to pray.. do it silently. If they wish to have a bible study club in High School.. do it, but not during school hours, and do not preach during school. If you wish to do the Thirty Second Kneel Down at your locker.. fine by me. But I am not a practicing christian, I do not believe in God, Heaven, or Hell. Religion does not pay taxes, and in my opinion it has no place in Public Life.. Politics or Education. That's my stance, and I'll never give it up

SpellboundByMetal · Post by **SpellboundByMetal** » Thursday Oct 05, 2006

i didnt read basically any of this thread. politics are not my thing @ all.

anyway, Gary- no bible club during school hours? i think thats dumb. there are tons of stupid clubs...why not that one??
they have a fag club at my sisters school. a fuckin FAG club. now THAT is wrong. Its called the 'rainbow club'. what a waste of time. id much rather have a bunch of prayers than teabaggers. just my opinion. whether you believe in HELL or not, it believes in you. This world is CONDEMNED.

Capt. Grammar · Post by **Capt. Grammar** » Thursday Oct 05, 2006

I believe that more time should be spent on grammar lessons and literature reading.

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Thursday Oct 05, 2006

AtoMikEnRtiA wrote:okay, all previous arguments aside for just this moment.. you all have brought up the founding fathers of this country.. and what they founded this country on, what they bled, and sweat, and cried for.. all their hard work and danger they placed on their lives.. and i truely appreciate that, but in all honesty - do you honestly feel that for the rest of this nation's existance.. we should continue to tow completely in line with the ideals these men had to the exact point of their statements.

That is what the amendment process is for. It is a very difficult process and it was made that way to ensure that these ideals were not trampled under a stampede of popular, trendy ideas. Did you ever hear of mob rule? If not, look it up. Better yet, read the Federalist Papers.

It is the Supreme Court's job to interpret the Constitution for specific cases. In doing so, they must consider the authors' original meaning or intent when coming to an opinion. Unfortunately, in many cases, the court strays from this practice, interjects their own opinion and introduces a whole new meaning to the law which effectively "legislates from the bench". Did you ever hear of judicial restraint? If not, look it up.

Are you saying that religion is just now becoming an issue that should be addressed?

SpellboundByMetal · Post by **SpellboundByMetal** » Thursday Oct 05, 2006

grammar = GAY. there you go captain!!

Hawk · Post by **Hawk** » Thursday Oct 05, 2006

AtoMic

We must have some sence of morality, of what's right or wrong.

I don't get your idea "we should concentrate on people" "not gay rights or gun control " . ???????????

Gays and gun owners ARE people. And those choices are important to everyone, no matter which side you're on.

No one expects Pleasantville ..........

God put you here to learn a lesson(s). That's all. What would you learn if everything were handed to you. Although that's off topic.

Don't confuse Religion with God. Religion is made up of men . Therefore Religion can not be perfect. Sorry, still off topic.

Hawk · Post by **Hawk** » Thursday Oct 05, 2006

AtoMikEnRtiA wrote:
I'll give the religious as much as I can. If they wish to pray.. do it silently. If they wish to have a bible study club in High School.. do it, but not during school hours, and do not preach during school. If you wish to do the Thirty Second Kneel Down at your locker.. fine by me. But I am not a practicing christian, I do not believe in God, Heaven, or Hell. Religion does not pay taxes, and in my opinion it has no place in Public Life.. Politics or Education. That's my stance, and I'll never give it up

This is the funniest thing you wrote. You wish to DICTATE to us according to YOUR beliefs. The country was founded to get away from dictators like you.

And you are engaging in incremental erosion , not deviation, of what our founding fathers stood for !!!!!!!!!!!

Hawk · Post by **Hawk** » Thursday Oct 05, 2006

By the way.

The war in Iraq will never end, there will be no end to attacks on U.S. military, or any one else from the U.S. . The culture of these people dictates an unending war.

How many Americans should we let get killed before we kill everyone or just plain leave ?

Do you think enough Americans have been killed yet to justify removing Sadam ? Or should we let more die ?

SavageHeart · Post by **SavageHeart** » Thursday Oct 05, 2006

religion, no religion - god, no god. ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL. That should be the charge that we follow, and abide by. That should be the cry we adhere to. Instead of concentrating on whether gay couple should be allowed to marry, or whether gun control should take place or not.. we should concentrate on what really matters.. THE PEOPLE!

You obviously mean the people that aren't "White Trash" right?

Hawk · Post by **Hawk** » Thursday Oct 05, 2006

Did You Know ?

Rice and others in the Bush Cabinet were told TWO MONTHS BEFORE 9/11 that Bin Laden was going to attack soon.

They totally denied hearing anything like that "or we would have done something about it". SUPRISE>>>>THEY LIED. It is in the White House transcripts that the meeting DID take place, and Bush's people knew TWO MONTHS prior !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mjb · Post by **mjb** » Thursday Oct 05, 2006

atomic
i guarantee you will pray someday, when someone you love is going to die or your laying on your deathbed you'll be a praying motherfucker and i don't give a shit if you respect me or not. seriously, guys like you make me sad. i just said a prayer for you. hope you don't mind. i think maybe all RP should say a prayer for you. god does love you, he knows your just trying to be a tough guy. you'll sort it all out someday i'm sure of it.

AtoMikEnRtiA · Post by **AtoMikEnRtiA** » Thursday Oct 05, 2006

Hawk wrote:
AtoMikEnRtiA wrote:
I'll give the religious as much as I can. If they wish to pray.. do it silently. If they wish to have a bible study club in High School.. do it, but not during school hours, and do not preach during school. If you wish to do the Thirty Second Kneel Down at your locker.. fine by me. But I am not a practicing christian, I do not believe in God, Heaven, or Hell. Religion does not pay taxes, and in my opinion it has no place in Public Life.. Politics or Education. That's my stance, and I'll never give it up
This is the funniest thing you wrote. You wish to DICTATE to us according to YOUR beliefs. The country was founded to get away from dictators like you.

And you are engaging in incremental erosion , not deviation, of what our founding fathers stood for !!!!!!!!!!!

No, friend, Im not dictating anything. Im just trying to say.. maybe if we trade some aggression for pacifism on some things, instead of shoving things down people's throats, we allow things to change with grace, maybe things would work out for us..

RobTheDrummer · Post by **RobTheDrummer** » Thursday Oct 05, 2006

I think education should have more imput from the Bible. There are a lot of moral lessons and historical lessons to be learned. Doesn't mean you have to preach it, but there is a lot of useful information and lessons in the Bilble whether you believe in it or not. You cannot deny that.

HurricaneBob · Post by **HurricaneBob** » Thursday Oct 05, 2006

4 pages of wasted bandwidth.
Like this thread will change any one's mind's or change the world.

Continue idiots....

Hawk · Post by **Hawk** » Thursday Oct 05, 2006

AtoMikEnRtiA wrote:
Hawk wrote:
AtoMikEnRtiA wrote:
I'll give the religious as much as I can. If they wish to pray.. do it silently. If they wish to have a bible study club in High School.. do it, but not during school hours, and do not preach during school. If you wish to do the Thirty Second Kneel Down at your locker.. fine by me. But I am not a practicing christian, I do not believe in God, Heaven, or Hell. Religion does not pay taxes, and in my opinion it has no place in Public Life.. Politics or Education. That's my stance, and I'll never give it up
This is the funniest thing you wrote. You wish to DICTATE to us according to YOUR beliefs. The country was founded to get away from dictators like you.

And you are engaging in incremental erosion , not deviation, of what our founding fathers stood for !!!!!!!!!!!
No, friend, Im not dictating anything. Im just trying to say.. maybe if we trade some aggression for pacifism on some things, instead of shoving things down people's throats, we allow things to change with grace, maybe things would work out for us..

Wow man, you are so far off base, do you read what you write ?

You are not for agression , just don't let anyone pray out loud in front of you. You will agressivily remove religion and God from where ever it bothers you . That IS what dictators do.

If you were the pacifist you say you are, then you wouldn't mind if we pray, or mention God in our Pledge !

Hawk · Post by **Hawk** » Thursday Oct 05, 2006

Hurricane wrote:4 pages of wasted bandwidth.
Like this thread will change any one's mind's or change the world.

Continue idiots....

Exactly what the government wants. Let them get away with anything they want . Make people believe they have No control.

The Idiots are the ones who aren't paying attention to the erosion of their rights.

Bush can now torture potential terrorists, and they have NO RIGHT TO A TRIAL ! He can listen to any phone conversation he wants by using the word terrorist. That is like Communism leadership if you ask me ! Next he'll be able to call any one he wants a terrorist, and put them on jail with no trial forever. And it's all legal...........

You will pay attention when it affects YOU.

RobTheDrummer · Post by **RobTheDrummer** » Thursday Oct 05, 2006

Hawk wrote:
Hurricane wrote:4 pages of wasted bandwidth.
Like this thread will change any one's mind's or change the world.

Continue idiots....
Exactly what the government wants. Let them get away with anything they want . Make people believe they have No control.

The Idiots are the ones who aren't paying attention to the erosion of their rights.

Bush can now torture potential terrorists, and they have NO RIGHT TO A TRIAL ! He can listen to any phone conversation he wants by using the word terrorist. That is like Communism leadership if you ask me ! Next he'll be able to call any one he wants a terrorist, and put them on jail with no trial forever. And it's all legal...........

You will pay attention when it affects YOU.

Yea, you should be able to interrogate terrorists, and they don't deserve a fair trial because they are not US citizens. The ones that are US citizens commited treason which at one time when this country had a spine, they were hung from the highest tree.

As far as wiretapping goes, I got nothing to hide, I am not a terrorist.

Hawk · Post by **Hawk** » Thursday Oct 05, 2006

Come on Rob. The word is TORTURE, not interrogate. They can now torture as a means of interrogation.

No trial ? That's scary. If any one is innocent, you are saying they should stay in jail without due process forever. And it's OK to torture them ? Do you realize anyone could now be jailed and they don't even have to be given a reason for their sentence ?

What happened to innocent until proven guilty. So you 're against that.

With Bushes new laws. People can be jailed and don't even get a chance to prove innocence. You call that progress ? You call that backbone ?

Those hung for treason had a trial first.

SpellboundByMetal · Post by **SpellboundByMetal** » Thursday Oct 05, 2006

The Gov't can try to take from me whatever they want. Of coure they are stealing our civil rights.
Soon, the newly re-formed SS will start busting down doors. Everyone will have chips in their heads, it'll be great. Thats where we are heading. Like it or not.

I dont watch TV. I dont vote. I dont want anything from this country than what is owed to me from having been born here. Which , that doesnt even seem to mean shit anymore.
Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Thats all i want. The whole system is flawed. The liars are among us and making the decisons.

Hawk · Post by **Hawk** » Thursday Oct 05, 2006

Not afraid of wire tapping ? How do you know who or what they are listening to ?

There are just a million things , political, economical, religious, personal, etc. that they should NOT have access to. Don't forget, it's up to the man in charge who chooses what to listen to. And If you trust Bush, that's one thing, But the next guy might not be as nice as Bush . But it is Bush who opened the door .

AtoMikEnRtiA · Post by **AtoMikEnRtiA** » Thursday Oct 05, 2006

mjb wrote:atomic
i guarantee you will pray someday, when someone you love is going to die or your laying on your deathbed you'll be a praying motherfucker and i don't give a shit if you respect me or not. seriously, guys like you make me sad. i just said a prayer for you. hope you don't mind. i think maybe all RP should say a prayer for you. god does love you, he knows your just trying to be a tough guy. you'll sort it all out someday i'm sure of it.

Yes, Yes.. Pray for me, mother fucker.. I WANT ALL OF YOU TO PRAY FOR ME. Go ahead, get down on your worthless fucking knees and talk to some invisible man, put a good word in for the G-Man.. do it up..

Justin, Dusty, Keith, Brian, Dave, Matt, Spiff, I want all of you,. specifically to pray for me! This Saturday nite at Aldo's.. I want a group prayer!!

Im just a lost soul.. because you know, I've never prayed to God before.. so I guess I need to forget the 18 years I spent in a church.. being dedicated, baptized, and all that. Taking communion, going to youth camps and conventions.. nevermind the fact that while I worshipped this fucking great God you gave me, my Youth Minister preached that homosexuality was an abomination, and then later revealed to be a practicing homosexual.. or that I watched a grandparent suffer for 2 years with cancer, or an uncle suffer from a brain tumor for 15 years, and die because of steroids.. Such a great god.. FUCK THAT!

Spare me..

oh yeah, some great follower.. telling me you just prayed for me, and then spewing out such garbage language.. Im sure God really appreciates that.. maybe you should pray on your own behalf, and leave me the hell out of it

RobTheDrummer · Post by **RobTheDrummer** » Thursday Oct 05, 2006

You can't put all of this on Bush. The laws and rules had to be passed by both sides of the fence. Here's what I say, let the Democrats have a chance. We'll see what happens.

Baceman Spiff · Post by **Baceman Spiff** » Thursday Oct 05, 2006

Hurricane wrote:4 pages of wasted bandwidth.
Like this thread will change any one's mind's or change the world.

Continue idiots....

HERE! HERE!

RobTheDrummer · Post by **RobTheDrummer** » Thursday Oct 05, 2006

AtoMikEnRtiA wrote:
mjb wrote:atomic
i guarantee you will pray someday, when someone you love is going to die or your laying on your deathbed you'll be a praying motherfucker and i don't give a shit if you respect me or not. seriously, guys like you make me sad. i just said a prayer for you. hope you don't mind. i think maybe all RP should say a prayer for you. god does love you, he knows your just trying to be a tough guy. you'll sort it all out someday i'm sure of it.
Yes, Yes.. Pray for me, mother fucker.. I WANT ALL OF YOU TO PRAY FOR ME. Go ahead, get down on your worthless fucking knees and talk to some invisible man, put a good word in for the G-Man.. do it up..

Justin, Dusty, Keith, Brian, Dave, Matt, Spiff, I want all of you,. specifically to pray for me! This Saturday nite at Aldo's.. I want a group prayer!!

Im just a lost soul.. because you know, I've never prayed to God before.. so I guess I need to forget the 18 years I spent in a church.. being dedicated, baptized, and all that. Taking communion, going to youth camps and conventions.. nevermind the fact that while I worshipped this fucking great God you gave me, my Youth Minister preached that homosexuality was an abomination, and then later revealed to be a practicing homosexual.. or that I watched a grandparent suffer for 2 years with cancer, or an uncle suffer from a brain tumor for 15 years, and die because of steroids.. Such a great god.. FUCK THAT!

Spare me..

oh yeah, some great follower.. telling me you just prayed for me, and then spewing out such garbage language.. Im sure God really appreciates that.. maybe you should pray on your own behalf, and leave me the hell out of it

Why be so concerned about the Homeland, when the religious extreme is in Iran and wants to kill the west and Israel?