Warning ! Political Thread . What is (was) Bush Thinking ?

[RobTheDrummer]

I think it's pretty funny that Atomik talks about splitting up the country into different groups. Even though it may be a joke, it undermines what the country is about. People are free to have thier opinions here, you cannot divide the country on beliefs, that's what happened in the Civil War. It's ok to have different beliefs, that is true diversity. Can't we all agree to disagree and get along?

[lonewolf]

The problem is that I thought the war was a sham since day one. It'd be easy for me to say, "I told you so," but frankly, I've never been one to gloat.

Paul, there is a psychological term similar to "deja vu" for the easily adopted attitude or feeling that a person agrees with a statement of hindsight. I forgot what its called. Do you remember what it is?

[AtoMikEnRtiA]

I think it's pretty funny that Atomik talks about splitting up the country into different groups. Even though it may be a joke, it undermines what the country is about. People are free to have thier opinions here, you cannot divide the country on beliefs, that's what happened in the Civil War. It's ok to have different beliefs, that is true diversity. Can't we all agree to disagree and get along?

im not saying split the country into 2 different groups.. im saying split the country.. make the south its own country, because it truely acts like a totally different country than the rest of the people. and yes, it's a joke

[lonewolf]

I think it's pretty funny that Atomik talks about splitting up the country into different groups. Even though it may be a joke, it undermines what the country is about. People are free to have thier opinions here, you cannot divide the country on beliefs, that's what happened in the Civil War. It's ok to have different beliefs, that is true diversity. Can't we all agree to disagree and get along?

im not saying split the country into 2 different groups.. im saying split the country.. make the south its own country, because it truely acts like a totally different country than the rest of the people. and yes, it's a joke

Actually, since the red literally represents the majority of the citizens of the US, its the blue area that acts like a totally different country than the majority of the people.

Whoever assigned the red and the blue really screwed up big time. The red states should reflect RED ideals.

[AtoMikEnRtiA]

I think it's pretty funny that Atomik talks about splitting up the country into different groups. Even though it may be a joke, it undermines what the country is about. People are free to have thier opinions here, you cannot divide the country on beliefs, that's what happened in the Civil War. It's ok to have different beliefs, that is true diversity. Can't we all agree to disagree and get along?

im not saying split the country into 2 different groups.. im saying split the country.. make the south its own country, because it truely acts like a totally different country than the rest of the people. and yes, it's a joke

Actually, since the red literally represents the majority of the citizens of the US, its the blue area that acts like a totally different country than the majority of the people.

Whoever assigned the red and the blue really screwed up big time. The red states should reflect RED ideals.

actually, i'll think you will find the majority of the citizens of the US are of the "blue state" ideal.. you're going off citizens who voted in the last presidential election.. most minors are 'blue state' minded, as are most of those who are ineligible to vote, given any means..

not to mention, with current approval ratings of said red administration.. i have trouble believing that the majority of this nation agrees w/ neo-conservatives

[bassist_25]

The problem is that I thought the war was a sham since day one. It'd be easy for me to say, "I told you so," but frankly, I've never been one to gloat.

Paul, there is a psychological term similar to "deja vu" for the easily adopted attitude or feeling that a person agrees with a statement of hindsight. I forgot what its called. Do you remember what it is?

The hindsight bias.

It's something that we're seeing from both sides of the coin when it comes to the issue of Iraq. Though I think that we're seeing more of the hindsight bias from the left, i.e. "I knew that there weren't any WMDs!" and more cognitive dissonance theory from the right, i.e. "No, I never said the war was about WMD's. It's a liberation campaign."

[Banned]

im not saying split the country into 2 different groups.. im saying split the country.. make the south its own country, because it truely acts like a totally different country than the rest of the people. and yes, it's a joke

Actually, since the red literally represents the majority of the citizens of the US, its the blue area that acts like a totally different country than the majority of the people.

Whoever assigned the red and the blue really screwed up big time. The red states should reflect RED ideals.

actually, i'll think you will find the majority of the citizens of the US are of the "blue state" ideal.. you're going off citizens who voted in the last presidential election.. most minors are 'blue state' minded, as are most of those who are ineligible to vote, given any means..

not to mention, with current approval ratings of said red administration.. i have trouble believing that the majority of this nation agrees w/ neo-conservatives

The majority of the country is against abortion.

The vast majority of the country is against late term abortions.

The vast majority of the country is against amnesty for illegal aliens.

A surprising majority of Americans are for deportation of illegals.

The majority of the country is for tax cuts.

The majority of the country wants to keep God in the Pledge of Alligence.

The majority of the country wants Christ to remain in Christmas.

The majority of the country is against color quotas for jobs or schools.

The majority of Americans feel proud to be Americans.

The majority of Americans do not want gay marraige.

Sounds like you are in the Minority. You can have California and New York and live happily with your Birkenstock liberals, paying high taxes forever.

[RobTheDrummer]

The most damaging group to America is the ACLU.

Discuss.

[YankeeRose]

"I may not agree with what you say, but I would defend to the death your right to say it." That isn't simply a great quote to me...I would.




My mom is a lifelong Democrat, however, I'll never forget the day she called me a traitor because I voiced my opposition to invading Iraq. I said, "there is no reason we couldn't have waited another 3 weeks, even a week, no reason we had to up and invade another country without solid proof of a thing. Mark my words, a year from now, the tide will have turned when no WMD have turned up." A year later, "I told you so" gave me no comfort. Neither does the fact my mother's dislike of Dubya now is worse than my own. A GOOD "leader" would and could never have willfully perpetuated such division...what he's done to this Country is very well documented being done by other "leaders" in History. As has been basically said before in this thread, "those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it". Yep, Iraqis are SO inept, they can't handle their own country and they really WANT us there don't they...call them "insurgents" and it sort of de-humanizes them, doesn't it... Besides, if we left Iraq now, think of all the MONEY the profiteers would lose! Haliburton is at or very near the top of this Country's monetary food chain. Even without re-building profits, there's the Department of Homeland Security and ISC contracts.




If anyone believes all of our borders - and this would include our ports - are safe, guess again...they got a lot of noise recently, but does that really mean a thing? It's real simple: "think for yourself"...try it, one never knows what may happen!!!





By the way, are you Registered to VOTE? I think the deadline is October 10, and I for one believe your Vote DOES matter!!! (Whether it will be counted or not is another story all together. )




To think I'd stopped watching this topic...but alas, I'll have to stop watching it again!

[AtoMikEnRtiA]

Actually, since the red literally represents the majority of the citizens of the US, its the blue area that acts like a totally different country than the majority of the people.

Whoever assigned the red and the blue really screwed up big time. The red states should reflect RED ideals.

actually, i'll think you will find the majority of the citizens of the US are of the "blue state" ideal.. you're going off citizens who voted in the last presidential election.. most minors are 'blue state' minded, as are most of those who are ineligible to vote, given any means..

not to mention, with current approval ratings of said red administration.. i have trouble believing that the majority of this nation agrees w/ neo-conservatives

The majority of the country is against abortion.

The vast majority of the country is against late term abortions.

The vast majority of the country is against amnesty for illegal aliens.

A surprising majority of Americans are for deportation of illegals.

The majority of the country is for tax cuts.

The majority of the country wants to keep God in the Pledge of Alligence.

The majority of the country wants Christ to remain in Christmas.

The majority of the country is against color quotas for jobs or schools.

The majority of Americans feel proud to be Americans.

The majority of Americans do not want gay marraige.

Sounds like you are in the Minority. You can have California and New York and live happily with your Birkenstock liberals, paying high taxes forever.

wow, you know how i know you're just talking out of your ass here, joe? You didnt put any figures to back up your "the majority of Americans".. how about some solid proof, my friend. Something that doesnt just scream "PROPAGANDA!" - is it because, you cant find said evidence? Im thinking so..

this could be the case.. afterall, the majority of the population are composed of white trash families where the woman has 11 children, just because she feels her job is to "pump out a unit every nine months".. not saying thats totally bad.. but most white trash families tend to vote republican, because they cant understand why black people and gay people deserve rights..

[lonewolf]

actually, i'll think you will find the majority of the citizens of the US are of the "blue state" ideal.. you're going off citizens who voted in the last presidential election.. most minors are 'blue state' minded, as are most of those who are ineligible to vote, given any means..

not to mention, with current approval ratings of said red administration.. i have trouble believing that the majority of this nation agrees w/ neo-conservatives

wow, you know how i know you're just talking out of your ass here, Ato? You didnt put any figures to back up your "the majority of Americans".. how about some solid proof, my friend. Something that doesnt just scream "PROPAGANDA!" - is it because, you cant find said evidence? Im thinking so..

[byndrsn]

this could be the case.. afterall, the majority of the population are composed of white trash families where the woman has 11 children, just because she feels her job is to "pump out a unit every nine months".. not saying thats totally bad.. but most white trash families tend to vote republican, because they cant understand why black people and gay people deserve rights..

Where do you get this stuff??

[AtoMikEnRtiA]

this could be the case.. afterall, the majority of the population are composed of white trash families where the woman has 11 children, just because she feels her job is to "pump out a unit every nine months".. not saying thats totally bad.. but most white trash families tend to vote republican, because they cant understand why black people and gay people deserve rights..

Where do you get this stuff??

i observe it.. ever been to the south?

[byndrsn]

this could be the case.. afterall, the majority of the population are composed of white trash families where the woman has 11 children, just because she feels her job is to "pump out a unit every nine months".. not saying thats totally bad.. but most white trash families tend to vote republican, because they cant understand why black people and gay people deserve rights..

Where do you get this stuff??

i observe it.. ever been to the south?

Yes, many times. I actually liked your map because I would like to move south!! (I hate Winter!!!)

But seriously, how can you stereo-type like this. Especially since you are the one that accused others of talking out their butts without backing up their claims with evidence!!

I liked Undercoverjoe's list. I think we should put each one of those categories onto the Viewer Poll section here on Rockpage and see just how many Rockpagers want lower taxes, deportation of illegal aliens, the word "God" to remain in the Pledge, etc. That could be very interesting!!

Urbs

[AtoMikEnRtiA]

Yes, many times. I actually liked your map because I would like to move south!! (I hate Winter!!!)

eh.. but wouldn't you miss it if you moved to a tropical environment.. i bet you would miss a blizzard immediately after your home gets destroyed in a hurricane haha j.k. man

But seriously, how can you stereo-type like this. Especially since you are the one that accused others of talking out their butts without backing up their claims with evidence!!

Im not stereo-typing at all. Im merely stating fact. The large majority of white trash vote republican. Whether it be in Pennsylvania, New York, or Tennessee, Kentucky, or Alabama.. you can't deny that. I'm also not stereo-typing that most white trash families are larger.. because they are. Im not saying there arent some hard working people in the south, because i know there are. Between the coal mines in the south, tobacco plantations, and the great people at Nascar.. I'm not saying everybody from the south is white trash. I have an Aunt who was born in Huntingdon, and moved to Tennessee with her husband because he got stationed there.. I have another Aunt who lives in Tampa Bay and works as a nurse.. so yes, there are some hard working people there, but i also wouldnt consider THEM to be white trash.. here is my definition of white-trash..

Does your house sit on 4 cinder blocks.. you have 13 cars dismantled out in your front yard, you have 8 children ranging from 2-10 years old, do you dress up in half-decent clothes and let your children wear torn rags? Do you have a confederate flag hanging, but no American flag above it? That is white trash... in fact, Im suprised some Neo-Cons like Joe wouldn't torch those people.. those are the people WASTING welfare.. but no, you blame the black people, and the homeless.. These people have a home, are able-bodied, but do nothing.. YET THEY VOTE GOP.. [/b]

I liked Undercoverjoe's list. I think we should put each one of those categories onto the Viewer Poll section here on Rockpage and see just how many Rockpagers want lower taxes, deportation of illegal aliens, the word "God" to remain in the Pledge, etc. That could be very interesting!!

Urbs

It would be interesting, My stance on this.. God does not belong in the pledge of allegiance.. constitution says so.. seperation of church and state. And in my opinion, until they start paying taxes on all that money they collect 5 times a week.. Religion has NO place in politics. Ah the irony, religion electing the president the past 2 elections.. this sickens me even more because religion should have NO say in it..

My friends, religion is a neurological psychosis.. you're praying to somebody.. WHO DOESNT EXIST.. and if there is a God, and he's so fucking great - why does he allow such horrible things as cancer, natural disasters, and AIDS to exist.. If God was so just and loving.. why does he allow people to suffer for years before dying. Oh, yeah.. he's a prick!

and before you go to say it.. don't say "to punish the godless like yourself.." because if you seriously say that, i mean this with all seriousness.. you will lose any respect i may have ever had for you. I am not a child, do not patronize me with such stupidity.. I stopped talking to invisible men when I was 6.. and I suggest you stop as well.

[Hal]

Still haven't seen anything to back up anyone's "facts".

It seems that some people have no idea on how to differentiate between fact, opinion, and speculation.

[lonewolf]

It would be interesting, My stance on this.. God does not belong in the pledge of allegiance.. constitution says so.. seperation of church and state.

It does not say so. A 1947 supreme court decision says so. You will not find the words "church" or "separation" anywhere in the constitution.

The "wall of separation between church and state" was a phrase written by the author of the 1st Amendment, Thomas Jefferson in a letter to the Baptist church. In his writings and conversations, Jefferson confirms that the intent was to prevent the establishment of a particular denomination as a state religion such as the Anglican church in England. Period. It was sure as hell not his intent to prohibit certain words which he, himself often used during his long tenure with the "state".

This is made clear in a letter to Benjamin Rush:

"The clause of the Constitution which, while it secured the freedom of the press, covered also the freedom of religion, had given to the clergy a very favorite hope of obtaining an establishment of a particular form of Christianity through the United States; and as every sect believes its own form the true one, every one perhaps hoped for his own, but especially the Episcopalians and Congregationalists. The returning good sense of our country threatens abortion to their hopes and they believe that any portion of power confided to me will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly."

Aside from that, the 1st Amendment was all about religious freedom and removing the Congress's power to interfere with it. He should have specified the "government" because he had no idea that the Supreme Court would become a major legislative branch of the government.

It amazes me that the supreme court can trample all over the 1st and 10th amendments and tell the local and state governments how to handle religion.

[RobTheDrummer]

Good post Lonewolf!

[byndrsn]

Okay People!!

I hope UndercoverJoe doesn't mind but I took the liberty of setting up the polls in the "Viewers Poll" section here on RockPage.

Let's see where RockPagers stand on the different issues.

(btw, they are all "For" or "Against" - none of this sitting on the fence BS. If you don't know how you feel: don't vote!!)

[Hawk]

Good post lonewolf.

I met and spent time with the man who worked with Pres. Eisenhower to insert it into our pledge.

The words "under God" were added in 1954. I personally met and spent time with former Presbyterian minister George Docherty. I think he's in his early 90s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_ ... der_God.22



But he told me his story. He was pastor at the Presbyterian Church in D.C. . for about 30 years. He knew many Presidents, and was a frequent guest of royalty.

When he came here from Scotland, he was surprised God was not mentioned on our National Anthem. His son pointed out it wasn't in the Pledge either. So he talked to President Eisenhower and along with support from the Knights of Columbus, it was inserted .

[Hawk]

Hal, What facts are you looking for ?

byndrsn, Anyone will say they want taxes cut ! That's why the politicians , especially Republicans, say it so often ! Ask them what they are going to take away ? That's a MORE IMPORTANT question !

Ronald Regan raised taxes ELEVEN TIMES ! Don't pay attention to what the say, Pay attention to what they do.

Clinton cut welfare ! DID YOU KNOW Bush increased spending money for the POOR. READ WELFARE !

[Hawk]

Again. There should be NO separation of church and state. The United States were founded on CHRISTIAN JUDEO PRINCIPALS. Don't take that away from us !

There should be NO state Religion !

That's what our brilliant forefathers WANT.

[RobTheDrummer]

Exactly Bill!

[YankeeRose]

My friends, religion is a neurological psychosis.. you're praying to somebody.. WHO DOESNT EXIST.. and if there is a God, and he's so fucking great - why does he allow such horrible things as cancer, natural disasters, and AIDS to exist.. If God was so just and loving.. why does he allow people to suffer for years before dying. Oh, yeah.. he's a prick!

and before you go to say it.. don't say "to punish the godless like yourself.." because if you seriously say that, i mean this with all seriousness.. you will lose any respect i may have ever had for you. I am not a child, do not patronize me with such stupidity.. I stopped talking to invisible men when I was 6.. and I suggest you stop as well.

Gary...maybe we'll get to discuss the Pledge, one of these days.




My 2¢ on the rest: I don't like organized religon, but have very strong Faith. There's a difference. As for a Higher Power "allowing" things to happen, why do Humans continue to do things they know they shouldn't and then expect to have their asses saved? "Disasters?" Does "Global Warming" sound familiar? If one truly believes there's something better, in Paradise, that this is not the end, they aren't afraid of death. I greatly miss Loved ones who've passed, but I believe they're okay. We are the ones left behind to, as you put it, "suffer". (There are times I think of Earth as some kind of Hell, but yet, there's so much to be thankful for...it's truly a dichotomy.) While a person's body experiences physical pain, their Soul doesn't...a strong Soul can help a person to rise above, even if only for a little while - right up to the time it finally escapes from it's shell for good - if you have a Soul, that is. If you don't believe, it's okay...one day, hopefully when you're quite elderly, you'll be "in the Light" and you'll SEE!




(Note to self: be sure to unclick "Notify me when a reply is posted." Although, it hasn't been too bad...keep up the good work, boys. "Gold Stars" for everyone! )

[bassist_25]

Actually, our forefathers were deists and unitarians.