Gas is 2.39 a gallon - It's a conspiracy ...

[bassist_25]

What can I say, I'm just cool like that.



Besides, it was State College. Everyone' s a yuppie there. The Focus is pretty damn yuppie...though not quite as yuppie as a Volvo. *lol*

[Punkinhead]

Because no matter how much bitching, and boycotting and threatening we do.. immediately after we stop complaining, we're right at that fucking gas pump.. putting that 2.99 gasoline in our automobiles.

Right, but one thing it seems like hardly anyone seems to notice is all of the gas-hogging SUVs on the road, I really think that is part of the problem, those (seems like the majority of whats on the road) size cars are hogging up all of the gas! Anyone who took a basic econ class knows that higher demand = higher prices. Buy gas efficient cars or only buy large SUVs if you are in a position (like with your business or you have loads of kids) that you need them. I see people driving these monstrosities around all alone, for some its a status symbol and that makes me sick.

I disagree with this. The prices of trucks and SUVs is considerably less than it was 3 years ago. That has to say something about the market on them...although if I'm proven wrong with some figures, I'll believe it.


What really fucks me off is this:

You can get a hybrid for $21,000 that gets 66 mpg or a Cobalt for $12,000 that gets 34. So until you actually save the $9,000 with a hybrid you have driven almost 500,000 miles. You can't win right now, you get it at the pump or when you buy the car.


And I wholeheartedly agree with the post about no matter anyone tries, we still put our fat asses (meaning America in general, let's face it, we're obese as a society) back to the gas pumps. Until there is an alternative, we are pretty much screwed based on that fact. We're our own worst enemies in reality.

[tonefight]

I was never too concerned with gas prices I settled into a job where I did less traveling. I always thought it was stupid to drive 1 hr to a job meanwhile I'm passing who knows how many people coming the opposite direction that are going close to where I live to do the same type of job. People will travel an hour a day to make an extra buck per hour and thats stupid. People will drive a 1/2 hour to go out to dinner several nights week, the list goes on.
I'm guilty when it comes to the motorcycle, I'll ride 75 miles to look at something I wouldn't care to see anyway and and turn around and drive back. I guess its not as bad as taking an SUV though.
I guess Sheetz is putting Ethanol at 3 of there stores i don't know how much this will help or if it will catch on but at least its a start.

[bassist_25]

Sometimes circumstance dictates how far you travel though, Tony. My father commuted to State College every day (about 50 minutes) because that was the only worthwhile place to work. It sucked to beat his car into the ground because of it, but State College is not a cheap town to live in.

You may buy a home, and then switch jobs after twenty years. It really wouldn't make sense to sell your home and take out another mortgage because your new job is a little further away.

[Blain]

yeah, it's a conspiracy. Because politicians have so much control over everything that they can wave a magic wand and lower gas prices down.

Dude, it they had that much influence, maybe they'd actually get something done once in a while.

[tonefight]

Sometimes circumstance dictates how far you travel though, Tony. My father commuted to State College every day (about 50 minutes) because that was the only worthwhile place to work. It sucked to beat his car into the ground because of it, but State College is not a cheap town to live in.

You may buy a home, and then switch jobs after twenty years. It really wouldn't make sense to sell your home and take out another mortgage because your new job is a little further away.

True Paul, for example what I'm talking about : a neighbor is looking at a new job, he currently lives less than a mile to work, new job is 45 min trip. He will have to get alot of extra cash to make up the difference.
I could make more money but for another company but the company I work for is 2 miles away, from there I take a company vehicle adn the work is usually a reasonable distance.

[songsmith]

Oh yeah, ya gotta factor in your commute when you're figuring wages. Time is money for you as well as your company.

Lonewolf: The wifey has the Element. I've piloted it on nasty snowy roads, and it was as sure-footed as my old Cherokee (although the Jeep was better at climbing the steep stuff in snow), but gets better mileage. My Mazda is the worst of both worlds... it gets about 23-26 MPG, and like pretty much all compact trucks, it's ass-end is so light its useable only in 4WD in snow. My old Nissan Hardbody was a much tougher truck, was more fun to drive, and got about the same MPG despite being a six-banger to the current four, but I had to fill the bed with snow to get it's balance right for traction.

Gotta love the Element. It's supposedly the most American-made car available (made in Ohio), roomy as hell... it's a musician's dream. Best car either my wife or I ever had.

Hijack over. Now back to the thread. ----->JMS

[g1wgs]

here's the deal.

Alternative fuels:
Methanol, Ethanol, etc. Good luck. It currently has many obstacles to becoming a "replacement" for gasoline. First, it's not compatible with our current distribution system. Alcohol acts as a water magnet. The extra mostiure will ruin pipe lines, and the corrosive nature of it will eat seals and gaskets. That's why you need a special fuel system in the car to run it. New fuel supply hoses, fuel pump and special injectors.

NOT to mention, all the FOSSIL fuels you have to burn to MAKE ethanol. Now, there is one technology I've read about that can produce ethanol with a net positive energy equity compared to Gasoline. Yes, it takes about 125% of the energy to produce gasoline than gasonline actually contains. Not to mention the the inefficiency of automobile engines.

As for a coal based society... good luck. If they could get past the rediculous amount of regulations in place now, the extreme costs associated with mining (mostly the danger) are becoming hard to pay for in an america where higher wages are demanded. We could import the coal but that just makes us dependent on foreign bodies once more.

Nuclear technology is IMO, still a viable alternative. Three mile and Cheyrnoble have shown us what NOT to do, and modern control systems and quality assurance processes are better than ever. This, combined with battery powered cars are about the most environmental friendly solution you'll find. However, no one wants a nuclear plant next door nor do they want toxic waste getting trucked by their kids schools.

BTW, I think it's all BS... truck the damn stuff where ever you want, it's less risky than driving a car on the parkway east during rush hour.

As for the environment. The current "reverse" global warming craze that has somehow picked up steam as of late is complete and utter bullshit. There is no f'ing way that 6 billion measily humans ruined a planet that is 12 trillion times the mass of us. The thought is completely and utterly rediculous.

The simple fact is the sun puts more energy on the earth in one HOUR than there is energy contained in the oil we burn in an ENTIRE YEAR!

Three things control our climate. The sun, the moons effect on the tides, and the earths core and subsequent volcanic eruption. One large volcanic eruption puts more crap (gasses, particulate matter, and heavy metals) into the air than the ENTIRE industrial revolution since 1850. ONE!

Humans ruin the planet? Get real. This place will smite us and wipe us out if we think different.

[lonewolf]

Besides, it was State College. Everyone' s a yuppie there.

They wish they were, but when it comes down to it, only a select few actually have the wallet for it.

[AtoMikEnRtiA]

Humans ruin the planet? Get real. This place will smite us and wipe us out if we think different.

I agree, that human influence isnt the only leading factor in global warming or climate shift.. but we sure as hell dont help the earth any. With as much shit as we put into the atmosphere, between aeresol spray cans, perfumes, car exhausts, burning of plastics, paper, burning our trash, smoking, methane from cows burping, nuclear reactors constantly billowing smoke out amongst the air.. we sure as fuck aren't doing anything to assist the earth in it's climatological needs.. not to mention all the shit that goes into the ground.. i wont even go there..

yes, the earth's climate will change anyways - the earth has gone from extreme warmth to ice age many times before.. but for people to suggest that humans have NO influence in what goes down, is beyond stupidity.. the earth doesnt just put a large gaping hole into it's ozone layer.. the earth just didnt dump pesticides, and ddt, and mercury and millions of other chemicals into it's ground, and it's water. The earth doesnt just throw the plastic rings from a 6 pack into it's water. We do that.. not to mention.. the earth doesnt burn the plastic that we created.. plastics make it possible.. yeah, they make anything possible - they'll save your life on your head, and they'll end the earth with it's fumes.. so while i agree, the earth will change on it's own.. i just feel that we as humans are speeding that up a little bit..

[BURK]

All I know is that I'm gonna keep topping my tank off while the prices are still down!!!

[Punkinhead]

All I know is that I'm gonna keep topping my tank off while the prices are still down!!!

Argh...I'm not being a dick with this and I am sure that I am the fish that is biting the hook but...damn it, that mindset is why we continue to be raped in the ass.


Holy shit...I don't think I can say anymore...

[BURK]

All I know is that I'm gonna keep topping my tank off while the prices are still down!!!

Argh...I'm not being a dick with this and I am sure that I am the fish that is biting the hook but...damn it, that mindset is why we continue to be raped in the ass.


Holy shit...I don't think I can say anymore...

Besides becoming highly politically active this week, its really the only feasable thing for me to do... Don't worry, your not being a dick, ALL the Dicks are in DC...
~BURK

[BURK]

The worst part for me is like what was said earlier above... I just went from driving a 94 Accord around for ten years with all of my gear stuffed in everywhere to a roomy Blazer... Comfort is great now, I can haul all of my stuff and 3-4 people, The Accord... well I had to throw stuff in somebody elses ride just to take my girlfriend to a show... But I'm Paying for it hard at the pumps... The upside being that my last band travelled every weekend and LOWJACK basically stays here in State College... The whole gas thing just sux all around, I want a solar car or one that runs off beer piss...

~BURK

www.myspace.com/burk1
www.myspace.com/lowjackmusic

[HurricaneBob]

We parked our big roomy van with trailer for the summer. We went to a smaller six cylinder Dodge conversion and jam equip and everyone in there. Yeah, were feeling the crunch.

[Banned]

Someone has to ask the question as to why has there not been a new gas refinery built in the USA in the last 29 years. Because the tree-huggers have convinced congress to pass environtenmental laws so strict, that is is financially unfeasible to build one today.

The amount of car drivers increases increases yearly and China and India are the fastest growing markets for gasoline and oil, and we are not building any new refineries. (Just think about it, there are a billion Chinese who want to drive cars too)

It is a simple equation of supply and demand. The oil futures market is also very speculative, and because the predicted hurricanes did not hit the oil and gas refineries like last year, and they fond a verrrry large oil field in the Carribean, the prices are coming down.

I think it is only temporary. We need to drill in the USA, we need more refineries, but these would only be short term measures good for a decade or more.

I agree with Songsmith, where the hell are all the others forms of energy?????? I hope to be off the oil addiction in my lifetime.

[g1wgs]

Humans ruin the planet? Get real. This place will smite us and wipe us out if we think different.

I agree, that human influence isnt the only leading factor in global warming or climate shift.. but we sure as hell dont help the earth any. With as much shit as we put into the atmosphere, between aeresol spray cans, perfumes, car exhausts, burning of plastics, paper, burning our trash, smoking, methane from cows burping, nuclear reactors constantly billowing smoke out amongst the air.. we sure as fuck aren't doing anything to assist the earth in it's climatological needs.. not to mention all the shit that goes into the ground.. i wont even go there..

Think or believe whatever you want. The simple fact is that the earth is one large complicated chemical reaction, that is mostly fueled by the sun, the moon, and the earths core. Like I said, we could continue to expel chemicals into the air as we have for another 1,000 years and it still would not equal a hand full of volcanic eruptions. We are naive to think we could equal the power of the earth's geological activity. It doesn't even matter what we do. When a volcanic eruption happens equal to or larger than Mt. Saint Helen's, the GLOBAL temperature drops more than we have dropped it in 150 years of burning dino juice, coal, and running nuclear reactors (which by the way do NOT expel smoke into the atmosphere. It's steam.)

Look up supervolcanoes and Yellowstone park. Geologists now believe that Yellowstone is one giant volcano. A "Supervolcano." The time line looks like this... every 600,000 years or so it erupts from a HUGE... HUGE pool of magma. The eruptions affect the earth on a global scale. Guess when the last eruption was.... oh, about 650,000 years ago. This isn't like a oh my god, that's a bad eruption, eruption. This is a "katrina looked like a drizzling rain" massive catastrophic event that will wipe out 150 to 200 million people and render 70% of the land in the continental US unfarmable and unlivable. Additionally, most of the drinking water in North America will be next to useless to us unless heavily filtered. Then, the next ice age starts cause the sky is blacked out over so much of the Northern hemisphere.

There is simply absolutely NOTHING humans can do to control this. We can move to Europe and hope for the best. That's about it.

yes, the earth's climate will change anyways - the earth has gone from extreme warmth to ice age many times before.. but for people to suggest that humans have NO influence in what goes down, is beyond stupidity.. the earth doesnt just put a large gaping hole into it's ozone layer.. the earth just didnt dump pesticides, and ddt, and mercury and millions of other chemicals into it's ground, and it's water. The earth doesnt just throw the plastic rings from a 6 pack into it's water. We do that.. not to mention.. the earth doesnt burn the plastic that we created.. plastics make it possible.. yeah, they make anything possible - they'll save your life on your head, and they'll end the earth with it's fumes.. so while i agree, the earth will change on it's own.. i just feel that we as humans are speeding that up a little bit..

Interesting you bring up DDT. DDT is completely harmless. You could eat teaspoonfuls of DDT and it would never affect you. In fact, in a recent book I read about, they talk about how banning DDT was the worst crime against humanity EVER. Bigger than the holocaust, bigger than all of WWII, Katrina, the twin-towers, the Tsunami and every other natural disaster in the 20th century.

The reason? MILLIONS of people die from maylaria. DDT was thee most effective treatment against mosquitos in the tropics. Because we banned DDT millions and millions of people have died needlessly.

You wanna know why they banned it? It made the eggs of ONE species of bird soft. ONE. And only if they ate animals that had DDT stored in their fat cells.

Yeah, us humans. We're brilliant.

[MeYatch]

You wanna know why they banned it? It made the eggs of ONE species of bird soft. ONE. And only if they ate animals that had DDT stored in their fat cells.

I read that the birds in the study were also deprived of calcium. I wish I had a source to quote for this though.

[Bert|Evil]

$2.16 here in my spot of BFE Maryland. At this rate, it will be below $2 in 2 weeks.

[songsmith]

$2.45 here in Bellwood, still. I saw an internet blurb today that said it could go to $1.10. Ummmmmm, yeeeeaaaaahhhhh. Of course, the monkeys flying out of my butt would propel me forward for free. That cat's out of the bag, and ain't never going back in.
Oh, and I hate to pick at you Joe, but I have a theory that no new refineries have been built because the speculative market would be much less volatile, and prices would stay flatter. The transportation fuel market is an unnatural one, driven as much by what some people think will happen, as by what actually happens. You can't tell me that demand suddenly dropped by 25% the day after Labor Day. Big oil knows they can't keep it up forever, people have a limit... we hit it in the 70's "gas shortage", and the recession damn near wrecked the oil companies along with everything else. Anyway, if Exxon thought they could turn a buck refining oil on the moon they'd sure as hell do it.
Not to bust yer chops. I'm just sayin'. ---->JMS

[Banned]

According to various talk-radio hosts and their information, the oil companies make less profit on gasoline when compared to a retail store's profit on some of their products. Again, if, in fact it is a small profit, you can imagine the sheer volume of gasoline used in the world that makes these companies look like monsters.

Now, I am in no way siding with big oil. Far from it. But I found that information interesting. Also interesting is the fact that individual gas stations or gas station chains can set their own prices. That's what led to the gouging. Most around our area at least seem to stay within cents of each other. Again, as with any retail type of situation, the cost of your product determines your selling price.

Giant Eagle over here is offering 10 cents off of their price per gallon for every $50 spent in their store or at the Get Go. I've already gotten gas for under $2 by using them. Are they losing money? Maybe, but again, it's enticement for getting more cutomers into the store. Make you money on lower prices but have volumes of people coming in---not keep your prices high in hopes that one person will come in and by it for that high price.

Now if songsmith is correct in his supply and demand theory, here is my take on why gas is getting cheaper:
1. I have been conserving by watching my trips and needless cruising and running around. I know I'm saving money because I'm not driving as much. I'm not boycotting anything, but if everyone was conserving a little bit by whatever means---times that by the sheer volume of people that need gas---it's no wonder that the price went down. Very small amounts of conservation by millions of people added up to less demand, therefore the price came down.

That's what I think. Also, I believe when gas does go up again, it won't go up in small increments, it will just skyrocket---so enjoy it while you can.

Honestly, if you actually believe in your government and think they know what they're doing, you're fucked.

[g1wgs]

According to various talk-radio hosts and their information, the oil companies make less profit on gasoline when compared to a retail store's profit on some of their products. Again, if, in fact it is a small profit, you can imagine the sheer volume of gasoline used in the world that makes these companies look like monsters.

Now, I am in no way siding with big oil. Far from it. But I found that information interesting. Also interesting is the fact that individual gas stations or gas station chains can set their own prices. That's what led to the gouging. Most around our area at least seem to stay within cents of each other. Again, as with any retail type of situation, the cost of your product determines your selling price.

Check your facts again. First, is there much money made on selling gasoline? the answer is: very littile if you are running a convience store gas station. The markup there is very small. They sell gasoline to get people to come in and buy overpriced soda and food.

If you are the company that refines gasoline do you make much money... probably enough to survive or you wouldn't do it.

IF you are the "GLOBAL ENERGY TRADING COMPANY" that sells and buys oil on the open market (which INCLDUES many of the names you know and love, like ExxonMobil, Royal Dutch Shell, and others) then the profits are HUGE.

Wanna know how I know that? Cause last year ExxonMobil posted the LARGEST profit of ANY CORPORATION in American history.... AND... AND!!! Royal Dutch Shell posted the largest profits of ANY EUROPEAN CORPORATION, EVER!

Second.... people think that price gouging is bad. It's not. Price gouging is a market signal. It means, this market is F'ed up right now, so come sell your product here and make prices go down.

Wanna know why nothing gets done after hurricanes? The government won't let contractors raise rates. Who the FUCK is going to travel down to a hot, wet, bacteria infested city to build houses, when there is no FUCKING way to make a profit on it? Huh? LIke it or not, the contractors that are there have been wiped out. THey won't be building houses.

Price gouging is part of a free market economy and signals to all the other business: "HOLY COW, look at all the money we're making." Then businesses will move there, sell services at competative rates and prices will return to normal.

It's simple supply and demand. It works.

[f.sciarrillo]

According to what Steve Sheetz told me; gas stations only make a cent or two per gallon. The biggest part of the price is in the taxes, It's around 40 to 60 cents a gallon. Now do you see why I say it's a conspiracy ?? The Government is making more off a gallon of gas than the gas station it self. That is just plain wrong.

[g1wgs]

According to what Steve Sheetz told me; gas stations only make a cent or two per gallon. The biggest part of the price is in the taxes, It's around 40 to 60 cents a gallon. Now do you see why I say it's a conspiracy ?? The Government is making more off a gallon of gas than the gas station it self. That is just plain wrong.

I don't think anyone is disagreeing about what the convenience stores make. However, if the government doesn't tax gasoline, how do you expect them to build highways? It is IMO a pretty fair way to tax based on use of roads. Somepeople don't use the roads.

Argue all you want it should be taken out of income taxes or whatever.... but then don't go complaining when you don't see the benefits of some income tax funded program that YOU don't use.

[lonewolf]

The price of oil and natural gas is set by traders in commodities trading pits. In the U.S. this is done mostly in NEW YORK CITY (not Washington, D.C. as some very naive people will exclaim).

Aside from China and now India (it will get worse before it gets better) competing with us for oil, there also has been an explosion in mutual funds known as hedge funds. Investment in energy hedge funds is in the hundreds of billions of dollars, approaching a TRILLION. Where does this money come from?

Look at your 401K or your IRA. Ask your insurance agent or investment advisor if you can buy a nice oil hedge fund. Mr. & Mrs. USA is feeding the energy speculation with nest egg dollars like crazy and that won't stop until the bubble bursts, as did the internet bubble at the turn of the milennium.

Last week, natural gas hedge funds took it on the chin when NG dropped into the $5 area. This will have a numbing effect on the willingness of mom & pop investors to make their retirement money available for speculation. With fewer and fewer issues to prop up the price, the oil speculators are not far behind.

I would like to remind you all of another little nugget of financial info that may have escaped your attention:

The last time a Eurodollar was equal to a US dollar was January 26, 2000. Since then, the dollar has declined to about $0.79 in value relative to the Euro. Just this factor means that $50 worth of oil in January of 2000 now costs us about $63.30 using today's dollars. That's one hell of a big chunk of change that is built right into the price.

If you want to know what's really going on, FOLLOW THE MONEY, not the blogs.