Im sick of welfare and other programs that are abused.

[Hawk]

Personally I have a problem with the whole program even without the fraud.

Receiving money for doing nothing is NOT COOL.

I hope you are never disabled, you might have to eat those words. Or are between jobs trying to support a family.

Some people need help sometimes. And I comforted that our society will help them !

[MeYatch]

my words came out a little harsh. I apologize for that. Disability and Unemployment are nice programs, and different than welfare. If I become unemployed, my unemployment will eventually run out.

So should it be for welfare.

[Hawk]

my words came out a little harsh. I apologize for that. Disability and Unemployment are nice programs, and different than welfare. If I become unemployed, my unemployment will eventually run out.

So should it be for welfare.

There are many people who do not have disability or unemployment to fall back on.

[SpellboundByMetal]

Brokenstrings- shut the hell up. ill say what i want. you sure as hell wont and cant stop me. my opinion counts as much as yours around here. even more id say. so again... shut the hell up.

[bassist4life2004]

Ok, i wasnt gonna get involved in the whining thats going on.
I agree with a bunch of points brought up here.
BUT..... who the fuck are you people to judge anyone?? and im saying this even though i agree with alot that was said here.
i mean, alot of you sound like conceited, 'im better than everyone' idiots.
Some of us have problems with YOU as well as the thugs, and bums and shit.

Yea, but see, the thing is, we have real jobs, as do you i imagine. I dont know, but i hate looking at my paycheck and noticing that 10% of what i work my ass off for goes straight to a drug dealer/junkie/street bum. When you work for the money that pays these people, you have every right to judge them, because they for-god-damn-sure arent giving me any money back on my investment.

Government funds seem limited to people who actually need them, and more open to those who dont. I could probably quit work all together and live off everyone else, but i get a sense of pride out of knowing that my paycheck is being earned by my hand, and not by someone elses. I dont, in fact, get a sense of pride in our country knowing that 10% of my paycheck is going towards people who are destroying our economy. We are feeding the shark thats going to bite us all in the ass, and its just a matter of time. You wait, you will see.

[bassist4life2004]

Brokenstrings- shut the hell up. ill say what i want. you sure as hell wont and cant stop me. my opinion counts as much as yours around here. even more id say. so again... shut the hell up.

you could have saved yourself a lot of typing by just saying "I know you are but what am I?" or go a little deeper and say "Im rubber and you're glue, whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you!"

[brokenstrings]

Don’t get all worked up like usual Spellbound. Not many topics here on Rock Page are worth getting an angry boner over. I’m just trying to give you a heads up that if a topic really doesn’t interest you, than why waste your keystrokes? I started this thread because I was bored and wanted to get a conversation going. When you and the metal camp had the whole death metal show planning commission, I stayed out of it because I wasn’t interested and I didn’t want to inject my comments where they weren’t necessary.

Ill give you a scenario. Pretend rock page is a virtual bar room and every thread is a different section of the bar having a different discussion but you can hear all the discussions. Why would anyone get out of their little circle to ruin a decent discussion? I would rather ignore the conversations I didn’t want to take part in and partake in the ones I could add insight to.

[Banned]

That’s another interesting point, today’s youth (even right her in Altoona) believe that the "Thug" lifestyle is desirable or cool. Jail is a right of passage, selling drugs is what one must do to become wealthy, and why work for what you can steal. These are the same ideals as the welfare jerk. I could start stereotyping about race or creed but in my experience these scumbags cross all colors. White, Black, Hispanic, they all want to be big bad thugs and live that lifestyle that destroys communities. It makes me ill to think about it.

Yo, why you be dissin' on da thugs? Pimpin' ain't e-z ya know. Thug life for eva! God bless Tupac.

[SavageHeart]

I, like Spellbound, was going to avoid posting on this topic. However, I would just like to add... does anyone on RP ever get tired of stereotyping every single possible type of person we can? It isn't as black and white on every subject as some of you would like to think. There are some strict guidelines for welfare in PA but like many other things, we do not enforce the rules that already exist. We continue trying to make new rules that we, again, won't enforce. There used to be Fraud investigators in every welfare office, but just like everything else, BUDGET CUTS!!!! There has been alot done with Welfare Reform but there are always people who are going to try to beat the system. That's just the way it is. I know people who have used the system for everything they could get. And I know people who have had a run of bad luck and needed some help to get back on their feet. I, for one, am happy that I live in a place that doesn't threaten execution as a means of conforming....as many of you who do not meet the social norm should be.

[byndrsn]

I thought it was interesting that I received the following email this morning and then got on Rockpage and was reading this thread. I agree with many points on here and I just want to say that I really don't want to get involved in this conversation, but I thought the email that I received was appropriate for this thread.

So, here it is:

Urbs

At about the time that our original thirteen states adopted their new constitution in
1787, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of
Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the Athenian Republic some 2,000
years earlier:

"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a
permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the
time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the
public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always vote for the
candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the
result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy,
which is always followed by a dictatorship."

"The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of
history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, those nations always
progressed through the following sequence:

1. From bondage to spiritual faith;
2. From spiritual faith to great courage;
3. From courage to liberty;
4. From liberty to abundance;
5. From abundance to complacency;
6. From complacency to apathy;
7. From apathy to dependence;
8. From dependence back into bondage"

Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the "complacency and
apathy" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of democracy, with some forty
percent of the nation's population already having reached the "governmental
dependency" phase.

If Congress grants amnesty and citizenship to twenty million criminal invaders
called illegals and they vote, then goodbye to the USA in fewer than five years.

Apathy is the greatest danger to our freedom.

[SpellboundByMetal]

Brokenstrings- pretend youre an idiot..oh wait.....
seriously ,man, i need advice from you like i need a kick in the face.

Bassist4life- (see above)

[Hawk]

Ok, i wasnt gonna get involved in the whining thats going on.
I agree with a bunch of points brought up here.
BUT..... who the fuck are you people to judge anyone?? and im saying this even though i agree with alot that was said here.
i mean, alot of you sound like conceited, 'im better than everyone' idiots.
Some of us have problems with YOU as well as the thugs, and bums and shit.

Yea, but see, the thing is, we have real jobs, as do you i imagine. I dont know, but i hate looking at my paycheck and noticing that 10% of what i work my ass off for goes straight to a drug dealer/junkie/street bum. When you work for the money that pays these people, you have every right to judge them, because they for-god-damn-sure arent giving me any money back on my investment.

Government funds seem limited to people who actually need them, and more open to those who dont. I could probably quit work all together and live off everyone else, but i get a sense of pride out of knowing that my paycheck is being earned by my hand, and not by someone elses. I dont, in fact, get a sense of pride in our country knowing that 10% of my paycheck is going towards people who are destroying our economy. We are feeding the shark thats going to bite us all in the ass, and its just a matter of time. You wait, you will see.

Where are you getting 10% to welfare ? Don't make things up ! Quote your source on this one !

Only a small percentage of welfare people are frauds. Get that through your head.

If you believe 10% of your check goes to frauds, you are either stupid or you are attempting to fool everyone else.

[MeYatch]

Where are you getting 10% to welfare ? Don't make things up ! Quote your source on this one !

Only a small percentage of welfare people are frauds. Get that through your head.

If you believe 10% of your check goes to frauds, you are either stupid or you are attempting to fool everyone else.

The numbers don't matter that much. Are the people receiving 5% or 10% or 50% of my paychecks doing 5% or 10% or 50% of the work that I'm doing?

Not really. Why then are they entitled to receive a portion of my paycheck?


Spellbound, its a small miracle that this discussion hasn't degenerated into name calling and angry threats. Are you just dying to get it to or what? if you don't care, stay out. Otherwise you are going to get political rants all up in your metal discussions.
And those two great tastes do not taste great together.

[MeYatch]

Ok, i wasnt gonna get involved in the whining thats going on.
I agree with a bunch of points brought up here.
BUT..... who the fuck are you people to judge anyone?? and im saying this even though i agree with alot that was said here.
i mean, alot of you sound like conceited, 'im better than everyone' idiots.
Some of us have problems with YOU as well as the thugs, and bums and shit.

by the way, it is in fact our right as tax paying, voting, american citizens to criticise the way our government spends money. That includes welfare and any other programs that distribute wealth.

[ASB10]

As a case manager for the DPW....I must say that this thread was incredibly interesting to me....

Truth - there are some valid points made here....the system has loopholes that allow people to refrain from actual work activity

Truth - the biggest loophole is the willingness of certain doctors in every area to sign work exemption forms

Truth - very stringent and precise welfare reforms continue to be issued, effectively making it more difficult to stay at home and collect TANF - but effectively ending welfare would create more socialogical and societal problems that it could ever start - reform needs to continue to be implemented

TANF (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families) - a necessary thing for emergencies, families in need, and the working poor - a system put in place to help those in need - and there is no shame in collecting if you are in NEED and unable to work for a time

Other than that - there are a lot of misguided opinions and faulty figures and logic floating around.....and some name calling just for the hell of it....but that's why we have forums such as this - to discuss and vent

On a personal note - I hate the system as much as anybody, but I realize it's need in society to help those who truly need the help - and that's why I go to work everyday

[Hawk]

As a case manager for the DPW....I must say that this thread was incredibly interesting to me....

Truth - there are some valid points made here....the system has loopholes that allow people to refrain from actual work activity

Truth - the biggest loophole is the willingness of certain doctors in every area to sign work exemption forms

Truth - very stringent and precise welfare reforms continue to be issued, effectively making it more difficult to stay at home and collect TANF - but effectively ending welfare would create more socialogical and societal problems that it could ever start - reform needs to continue to be implemented

TANF (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families) - a necessary thing for emergencies, families in need, and the working poor - a system put in place to help those in need - and there is no shame in collecting if you are in NEED and unable to work for a time

Other than that - there are a lot of misguided opinions and faulty figures and logic floating around.....and some name calling just for the hell of it....but that's why we have forums such as this - to discuss and vent

On a personal note - I hate the system as much as anybody, but I realize it's need in society to help those who truly need the help - and that's why I go to work everyday

Well written.

[BDR]

Can one purchase Mexcian jumping beans with food stamps?

r:>)

[Hawk]

Why then are they entitled to receive a portion of my paycheck?

It's not that they are entitled [You must listen to Limbaugh].

WE as a cultured society are entitled (read your bible) to help the needy ! ! Surely you can't be so cold hearted that you don't want to help the needy ? !

I'm as pissed off as anyone else at the people who abuse the system. But consider my past post, which I will re quote next.

[Hawk]

Here is another take on the welfare fraudulent people. The ones who DON'T need it.

These drug addicted, alcoholic, LAZY, baby making, trash.

Would you hire them ?
Would you want to work side by side with them ?
Would you like it if they were YOUR boss ?
Would you trust them in your work environment ?


I would not.

Personally, I would rather pay them off to stay away. Which (in a sence) is what we're doing.

I AM ONLY TALKING ABOUT THE FRAUDS, NOT THE MANY WHO NEED IT. I SUPPORT THEM 100%.

[Hal]

Hawk, are you collecting welfare since you are on here 24 hours a day??

[AtoMikEnRtiA]

Hawk, are you collecting welfare since you are on here 24 hours a day??

What the fuck does that mean?!?! Im not speaking on Hawk's behalf, but just because somebody posts on an online forum often doesnt mean they're not working. My life revolves around a fucking computer, and just because im on rockpage, from 8:00 - 5:00 every day does not mean I am not working, and I'm far from needing to collect state assistance.. so maybe Hawk is the same. In fact, maybe all of the rockpage regulars are the same.. so why dont you take that into account before you utter out something that's going to make you look like more of an ass, than you already are!

[songsmith]

I don't work. I sell crystal meth, kayak and fish, play music, service my sugar mama, and occasionally volunteer at the Music Emporium. --->JMS

[AtoMikEnRtiA]

I don't work. I sell crystal meth, kayak and fish, play music, service my sugar mama, and occasionally volunteer at the Music Emporium. --->JMS

kayak eh? you jew hahahahahaha

[Hawk]

Hawk, are you collecting welfare since you are on here 24 hours a day??

Nope. I'm self employed. Set my own schedule. And anyone who owns their own business knows how much work is involved.

And I am an Anti - Whiner. I'm very annoyed at people who whine but offer NO viable alternatives. If you make a suggestion, think it through to its logical conclusion before you open your mouth.

Lone Wolf is the only one who has offered anything that makes sense.

I have a sense of duty to help the less fortunate, whether it's paying my fair share of taxes, or speaking up in a forum where stupid people say stuff like "Let';s get rid of welfare altogether.

BTW, I'm guessing I pay more taxes than many of you. Owning a business requires extra taxes. I pay full social security, If you have an employer, he pays 1/2 of your social security !


So if you're going to whine and don't have a solution, Then do something positive about or stop whining.

[MeYatch]

Helping those that can't help themselves in one thing, and admirable. Helping those that can help themselves is something different.

I don't have a viable solution, I'm just excercising my freedom to bitch and complain.

I just have a problem with a system that rewards laziness.

I think (based on nothing whatsoever) that a significant portion of welfare recipients are able to work. However when they factor in the cost of travel, health care, and losing the money they get for free. They come out with less money, or close to the same after having a job they can get with their skills. There's something wrong with that.

You have to realize there's something wrong when someone who is in obvious need like songsmith once was gets his emergency food stamps taken out of future wages, while some people get free food, health care, and housing for doing nothing their whole lives.

There are entirely too many cracks to fall through in the system for people that would like to earn a living but need help. And entirely too many safety nets for those that don't work, and have no interest in it.