dilemma with micing kick drum (HELP)

[Banned]

my question is how do u get that big thud out of the kick is there some kind of speacial formula that i am missing .here is my set up i have an emadd batter head felt iron cobra beeters factory pearl head on res sidewith 2 4 inch holes one at 4oclock and one at 8 oclock an akgd112 mounted inside kick . i just cant get the thud im looking for please any help would be appreciated thanks.

[LHSL]

The kick mic you are using is a pretty well liked one. That shouldn't be the problem. Heck, I've used SM57s on kick and gotten lots of thump.

The best thing to try is changing the positioning of the mic. A few inches one way or the other can make a huge difference. Also, make sure the kick is tuned properly. Good sound starts at the source.

Beyond that, if you are trying to pump kick threw a pair of 2 way 15" speakers from Guitar Center, good luck to you. IMO, you will need at least a couple of 18" subs for a very small room, and it will increase from there for larger rooms / outdoors.

[Ron]

That's actually a complex issue, because the problem could be in several different parts of the system.

Have you tested the subs for polarity? I've seen so many systems that had the polarity reversed on one of the subs, putting them out of phase.

What is the breakdown of the entire system?

[lonewolf]

Rule #1: do NOT crank the channel bass shelving EQ--you are much better off if you roll off the channel below 60Hz

Thump occurs around and between 60hz and 120hz--perhaps a little higher. You can boost a parametric EQ with a tight Q setting and change the frequency in this range until you find that drum's sweet spot. You can then adjust the Q and level to your liking.

The presence area between 1K-4K should not be cut, but I wouldn't boost it much either. Set to taste.

[Banned]

well first thing our subs are 18 inches peavy black widow bass bins as fothe position of my internal mic which can be changed if need be is about 2 inches from batter head suspended from the top as for the tuning of the kick the batter head is loose and the res head is alittle tighter not much though . im glad someone asked bout the eq we really dont have one except for the board what ever is on that is there any way around this temp. till more equip can be bought.

[MeYatch]

the board does have a parametric EQ, I don't know how its configured right now, we can check.

does anyone have experience with the mic inside the kick drum, as stan is referring?
would he be better off to mic it outside?

The subs are in fine working order, they push a lot of bass.

[Ron]

If the bass response of the rest of the system is good, then check entire path from the mic to the board.

The D112 mic inside of the drum should be fine, unless the mic is damaged or has an internal wiring problem. I've worked with that combo countless times. Certain mic positions will sound better, but that's for final tweaking of the sound.

Make sure that the cabling is good from the mic to the snake. Sometimes a conductor can be bad (hanging on by only one or two tiny microstrands of wire) and you can still get output from the mic. It will just be really wimpy sounding. Also check the snake channel for the same reasons.

Check the channel on the board with another input, or move the kick to another channel to make sure it isn't the input on the board.

If you don't know how to operate a parametric EQ, get someone who does to teach you. I doubt if the on-board EQ is a true parametric with a Q control, more likely it is a quasi-parametric on the mid(s).

[HurricaneBob]

Also on the tuning side, what do you muffle the bass drum with if anything? Sometimes a head too loose will give you thud but thats it. You want to get the drum involved and het some shell sound.
I personally dont use any muffling and tune my heads the same to start.
I seen guys fill the bass drum with foam and let the foh take over.

[Banned]

when you asked me what i have inside the kick i have a dw pillow that kinda looks like an hour glass its wide on both ends and in the middle its skinny so do you think i might have to much muffling going on and maybe im killing the act, tone of the kick drum.what would you suggest please any help is appreciated . thanks.

[RobTheDrummer]

Get an Aquarian Superkick II batter head for the kick and mike with a Sure Beta 52a. That is a lethal combination baby!

[HurricaneBob]

when you asked me what i have inside the kick i have a dw pillow that kinda looks like an hour glass its wide on both ends and in the middle its skinny so do you think i might have to much muffling going on and maybe im killing the act, tone of the kick drum.what would you suggest please any help is appreciated . thanks.

You should be good with that setup man. These guys will help with the PA sound.

[ToonaRockGuy]

My soundman came up with a cool setup for miking my kick drum. He took a small micstand tube and runs it down through the tom mount hole down into my drum, and attaches an AKG D112 inside the drum. It's centered, so it picks up all the tone of the drum, and a good amount of the impact. Sounds great. Make sure to tune your drum right, and talk to your soundman to see what help you can give him to make your drum sound better. Working together, and trusting BOTH sets of ears will help a lot.

[lonewolf]

the board does have a parametric EQ, I don't know how its configured right now, we can check.

Most boards have bass & treble shelving with a frequency variable midrange. If this is what you have, try this:

Set the channel trim for optimum signal level
Set the channel level loud enough to hear well, but not anywhere near feedback.
Set the bass to -6db or less (about 9-10 o'clock)
Set the treble to 0db (straight up noon)
Set the mid level to +6db or more (about 2-3 o'clock)
Turn the mid's frequency control all the way counter clockwise.
If the mid also happens to have a Q, turn it all the way counter clockwise.

While hitting the bass drum:

1. Slowly turn the mid frequency control clockwise until you find the sweet spot where you are getting the best or loudest thump sound from the PA. You may want to go back and forth a few times until you find it.
2. If your mid has a Q, adjust it upward until you get the best sound without getting overtones and rings.
3. Adjust the bass and mid levels to your liking.

[MeYatch]

thanks lonewolf, we'll do that next time.

[songsmith]

I'm sure this has been covered, but I've found that the closer the mic is to the batter head, you get more beater click, and the further away, more bottom. I've read that the size of the hole in the front head matters, too. I read a thread on prosoundweb.com a few years back, where someone noted that the hole should be about 1/3rd the diameter of the head, to avoid loading inside the drum, and port turbulence at the hole. I'm not an expert there, however, so I bring it up more for discussion than advice.
I remember seeing Slammer many years ago, and the drummer had the entire inside of the kick drum covered with eggcrate foam, save for a 4" circle where the beater hit. That's a bit much I think, but surprisingly, it didn't sound horrible... but sort of like a cheap 80's drum machine.---->JMS

[Banned]

Thank you lone wolf for the specs. on the eq i hope it helps and i also wanna thank everyone for answerering my post for help with this matter i hope some of these things will make a difference in my kick drum sound all though i still think with that e- madd head me having that dw pillow inside touching both heads might just be too much padding so the drum cant sing oh well thanks all.

[Banned]

Does anyone think one of the reasons my kick isnt pounding because i got that dw pillow inside touching both batter and res. heads could i poss. be over muffling any soulutions appreciated Thanks...........

[Ron]

Does anyone think one of the reasons my kick isnt pounding because i got that dw pillow inside touching both batter and res. heads could i poss. be over muffling any soulutions appreciated Thanks...........

I highly doubt it.
The easy way to test is to take the pillow out and see.

[bsaller]

What works for me is an Aquarian Superkick II with no extra mufflling, a Shure PG 52 or better a Shure Beta 52. A noise gate in the channel insert. Thud is at 72 - 80 Hz. Use good gain structure on the board, youe the onboard ch. EQ, then maybe use a GEQ or PEQ.
My next gig I'm adding a Shure Beta 91 PZM inside the kick and the Beta 52 in front of the hole, both going thru gates. The PZM gives great attack and punch, the Beta 52 works the subs.

[UnkleMartin28]

One option, run the kick channel of your board into a side bus mix and you are able to pick up a few more decibles... It's basically running it dual channel. IF it is more Thud you are looking for then:

I tihnk you should be ok with what you have and could use the addition of a gate/compressor, Ive had kicks with similar setups with a beta 52, Snake- beringer 22 ch board->Insert out/in->Gates-> compressor->its own EQ->back to the board... WIth gates you can trigger the opening point of the microphone at different volumes, And close them off... I'm gathering you want that pound that goes into your chest, right?
borrow a compressor for a night and run some drum driven tracks, play around with the settings, you can start off at 0 and work up to 4:1 you should hear a change in the tightness of the sound. if your compressing it down 4 decibles, pick that back up at the gain end of the settings. It will have a much tighter feel...

I've always had kicks gated and compressed, and have plenty of headroom to spare. Even with music in between sets, especially with party bands, Ive played dance music and juiced it up with some compression. You will FEEL the difference..

***********As always be careful when experimenting with new equipment and try to do your homework or have someone who is in the know. It's not worth screwing up your pa cause someone in a forum gives you their opinion**************

Peace