My space posting from a bar in Florida

[bassist_25]

Just not their cup o' tea. or dip o' snuff to be more precise.

LMFAO

[rickw]

Gang, I really feel for the new bands and what they (you) are up against. Very harsh penalties for DUI, the Gestapo using every little decible as a chance to invoke a fine, higher costs of literally everything. All of this makes it rough to make a buck playing music no matter what caliber of band you are in. As was said before this ain't Tampa Bay, and we don't have a wealthy population of twenty and thirty somethings to go out every weekend. But one thing really urks me. A long time ago clubs, like record labels, were willing to work with and develop a new act. I remember playing at the Eden Lounge in Lock Haven, Bourbon Street in Williamsport, and Someplace Else in Pittsburgh. The owners got positive feedback from the few folks that saw us at first and they realized we weren't dicks. We were courteous, friendly, though business-like. They booked us back and the crowds grew and grew and grew some more to the point the door had to be closed. The money grew as well. Yeah, we worked with them, cut our fee, but they all began to make more and in turn give much more. And guess what? Those, and other, clubs made it enticing to visit their establishment for reasons other than "having a band". They had contests, drink and food specials, lovely girls who danced on the bar between sets (clothed) , and this was before the internet. And John, what a wonderful post, not quite as good as the kayak incident, but very good! Hey, we keep going because we love it.

[Big Jim]

Great posts Songsmith & Rickw.

I can see some good points being made on both sides, and want to add a few comments.

I've been hearing in the business world: What are we doing to "grow the business". It sounds like the Tampa club is just interested in the "guaranteed sure thing" when booking bands. Only the top-drawing bands. They will not have a bad night. If they do, you don't get paid. This is not very realistic. They will not work with bands to grow the crowd. They give you one shot to make it happen.

What is the competition like in the nearby area? What's the cover charge? Are there other places for original bands to play? If each band must bring
in 25 people (for a 3-band show = 75) why not take those people elsewhere. Play at a club down the street. If only 70 people show up, I bet the other club would be happy, and you don't risk getting paid zero. (70 x $5 cover = $350)

Then as you grow your crowd along with other bands that grow their crowds, have all of the up-and-coming bands never play at the club that has all the rules. You don't need them. Make another place in Tampa the top spot for local original music. You helped create the "scene". (I think that the Rockpage original metal band gathering currently being organized is looking to "grow their crowds", and have a good time too.)


I think most bands are letting their fans know where they are playing (promotion). The band I am in usually has printed schedules available at our shows, and it's on Rockpage. We did mention twice on the PA at the wing-off that we are playing the Hitching Post this Saturday.

I think Peter C's was a great place for new & original bands to play. You got paid $100 plus the door (the door part was sometimes a bit scary) so you could just about figure what you were getting. As you grew the crowd, you made more. I could always count on seeing some different original bands there, and cover most nights was $3. A band that charged $5 cover and drew 100 people got $600 for the night. Some bands made $1000+. I met a lot of people & made a lot of friends there too.

I do believe that a band that stays together a long time will eventually see some money to make things profitable. That is part of what it takes. (Bob said it: Pay your dues.) Many bands aren't together long enough to get there (especially original bands). But s*it happens and those that are in it for the long run will hopefully find other musicians that they get along with and get a little further along the successful path.

But most importantly, there needs to be a PASSION for the music & what you do. You should enjoy it, otherwise, don't waste you bandmates' time.

This has got to be my longest post ever. WHEW!!

[Lisa]

I remember playing at the Eden Lounge in Lock Haven, Bourbon Street in Williamsport, and Someplace Else in Pittsburgh. The owners got positive feedback from the few folks that saw us at first and they realized we weren't dicks. .

aaah, the days of the Eden! Man...we used to travel about 25 miles one way just to go to the eden....my first place working at a bar....and I loved it! I would pull in lots of money as a bar maid! Woo whoo...what grande memories.

[Banned]

Blah Blah fucking Blah. You can promote the shit out of whatever you're doing but it still boils down to if your fans have enough cash to go out for a particular night. Also, at least around here, people are just too afraid to go out due to the cops, LCB, whatever.

I see both sides of the story, but a "big town" philosophy doesn't work in Poedunk, PA, sorry.

Clubs take a chance booking bands. Bands take a chance booking new clubs where they're not known. It works both ways. Bands and clubs need to communicate more, make the appropriate deals so both are happy at the end of the night. In my opinion, that's all it takes. Use some common sense.

[brokenstrings]

I dont think that DUI is a big issue here in Altoona. Police rarely make DUI stops in the city. Their usually getting their tails ran off to calls rather than picking on the drunks. I'm related to one of the officers, i know the info is accurate.

Out in the sticks, different story.

[SavageHeart]

I live in Poedunk, PA and let me tell ya what bothers me about this whole thing. I find out where bands are playing by either the band or by ME doing the legwork to look. My friends and I go see bands because that's what we like to do. I don't think that all of the bars in our area do the promoting that they would like to claim. There are a few that are really good....ads in the papers, radio, etc. But there are some that you find out by just stopping in. And truthfully, just because you put an ad in the Ad Bargain doesn't mean that you are going out of your way to promote your bar or the bands playing there. I have heard ads on the radio for bars that never mention that they have a band there....how is this promoting the show? It isn't, it's promoting your bar. That's something you would do even if there was no band there. Not busting on the Popper but it is out in the middle of BFE and not really on my way to anywhere. I can appreciate that you have specials and promotions, etc. but maybe some of the comments are right, maybe you just shouldn't have bands (something that I WOULDN'T like to see). I've never really seen or heard any advertising for the Popper other than the Ad Bargain, and those are sporadic at best. I drive in my car 8 hours a day and I have never heard an ad on the radio station for a show there. I also think that guys and gals in bands do know alot of people and do have friends that they can bring but lets remember that some of these bands are playing out a bunch and it is just unrealistic to expect that there friends are going to follow them to every single show, especially when it may not be close to home. Just because there is no draw doesn't mean that the band didn't bust their butt to promote. Just because people come into a bar and don't stay doesn't mean the band "sucks". I also agree with the theory that if the band brings in a big crowd that they should get paid more. We went to see The Marauders and Rusty Gun Revival last night at the R-Bar and left early because it was SUPER hot and crowded. We made it halfway through RGR's set and had to leave for fear of passing out!!! People were drinking and having a good time and it was packed....You boys should've made a killing if this theory were true!!! And all joking aside, no toilet paper in the ladies room SUCKS.

[KMFDM ROB]

I can see it both ways. Being in a band that brings 5 people, is not good.

However;

A bar that says about "napkins, drinks, and food consumed".

Wait a second...if you're serving food, then you're making money. Did you offer the band free meals? Then don't next time, offer a discount instead.

If you offer to pay a band X amount of dollars, then are angry because they didn't bring the people, who is really to blame?

On top of that, they say about the "state of the building before they owned it". So it's the bands' fault that you bought a building in need of repair?

I think that it could vary based upon the band. Take for example a band with no originals, and is just doing covers a couple days a month at local bars. Obviously, they shouldn't go demanding top dollar (unless they of course bring the people) but they shouldn't go uncompensated. Also, you should take into consideration, this "weekend warrior" band isn't out at it like some other bands that are more well known.

Say a band that regularly fills up bars plays your venue, and they promote their show at your place, is it their fault, or your fault if no one shows up? Say band XXX regularly packs pellegrines to the door every Sunday they play, then they play bar YYY and post on Myspace they are playing, advertise in the PA musician they are playing, and post it on their website, and your bar fails to pull a crowd, is it the bands' fault, or the bars?

Make your bar a place people want to go, book bands people want to see, and everyone will be happy.

[VENTGtr]

I agree that bands have a big responsibilty in the promotion department,
but so do the bar owners.

I've played many a place where I went to drop off signs to advertise that
we'd be playing and behind the bar there'd be a wipe board with the bar's
idea of inhouse promotion saying something like:

Friday
DJ Meatwad

Saturday
Band Cover 3.00

Some moron DJ'll get paid by a bar what a band does. Don't know what
Gods we cheesed off for that curse but I want no part of them.

"I've never really seen or heard any advertising for the Popper other than the Ad Bargain, and those are sporadic at best."

I live in Philipsburg and until seeing posts on here and adding A.P. on MySpace, I didn't know The Alley Popper was having bands again.

I agree that we all need to work together (Or even productively apart) and harder than ever because the general public's just not the same.

I put up a post a coupl'a months ago with some ideas.

http://rockpage.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.ph ... highlight=

Didn't get much attention at the time (Prolly 'cause it's so freaking LONG) but
I'll put it the URL to it here. Maybe some of it might give some ideas.

DaveP.

[songsmith]

As far as bars being in out of the way places... I kinda like that. There's less chance the neighbors will complain, checkpoints are fewer and more obvious when they do happen, and I'm a country boy, anyway... I like the people because I feel more at home. If I were a Houtzdaler (Houtzdalian? Houtzdalmation?), I would likely hang out at a place like the Alley Popper. For the record, I think the difference between, the Alley Popper and Boomerz is like the difference between Houtzdale and Tampa. Or Rusty Gun Revival and Big & Rich. Big difference. I'd personally enjoy Rusty Gun Revival at the Popper waaaaaaaay more than Big & Rich at Boomerz.---->JMS

[SavageHeart]

Songsmith, I agree that out of the way places are great and the Popper is a great place to hang. What I meant was that most people bar hop and that being in BFE definitley hurts.