As a bar owner, I sort of like this statement. I know that I personally put in a lot of unpaid time promoting and coming up with ways to draw the crowd in for any band that comes to The Popper. I search for new, fresh ideals. I spend a lot of time online trying to get the word out that we are having an event. I contact reps from the different beverage companies...but I do get frustrated when I'm told that I should get a certain band because they have such a great following and then the night they show up, the crowd fails to show up too....
I would like to do a similar statement...but sort of prorate it based on the cost of the band. A new band just starting out isn't going to have a big draw but I'm also not going to pay them as much as an established band (unless they surprise me and bring in more!). But on the same note, I don't want to piss off bands in general. What are your thoughts on such a statement???
Monday, March 06, 2006
Boomerz Statement to Bands and Customers!
After several weeks since reclaiming Boomerz the idea has been to see where the problems have been and what plagued the previous tenants. Never has it been an idea to keep the music in the Cafe however. We feel the Cafe is better suited toward being a genuine Sports Bar and Grille. Therefore we have removed the lighting and stage and replaced it with more booths and tables. This week we will re-launch a full menu of sandwiches, salads, soups, appetizers and best of all the WINGS! These are the same popular wings enjoyed back when we were the Boulevard Grille. Additionally we will be running Pay-Per-Views and other sports programs on our many TVs and also re-installing the large screens. Construction will also be taking place as we widen the game room and install new games, as well as upgrade the jukebox into the 21st Century, with a new internet jukebox where you can get any song you want to hear.
Now comes the time to also pay more attention to the nightclub. The Boiler Room has played host to many different kinds of bands over the years. Our previous possession of it saw great times with the Bay areas best cover and tribute bands that would pack the club every weekend full of people eager to hear their favorite music. In recent years the club has hosted all the areas great original music bands, as well as several national labeled bands. However also in recent years it seems the club was not able to self-sustain itself. The question has been why? Boomerz Boiler Room has become known in the Tampa Bay area as a great concert venue and has seen the likes of several different genres of original music. Mostly Rock, Metal, Ska, and Punk. Over the past weeks we have kept the commitment of some shows booked at the club. Some we had to renegotiate or simply cancel due to a change in agreement with the other party to which we were not willing financially to uphold. The club being in such a state it was necessary to direct those finances elsewhere into upgrading and repairing many things.
Throughout these weeks we have taken a close look at the bands coming into Boomerz. We have kept track of who brought people and who didn't, who promoted their shows, and who didn't. Who is more dedicated to making their shows successful and who are not. Through that and a couple of letters written publicly, we determined the original music scene is in dire need of a recommitment not only to themselves but the clubs and the fans in general. As much as we are concerned with the scene, we are mainly concerned for one reason. We are a business! We are in business to make money, and we are in business to serve the public with great fun and atmosphere. The more money we make, the more we can add to the atmosphere of the club. We have chosen to be a concert venue, because we believe there is a great interest in it by many people in the Tampa Bay area. Therefore we are going to employ whoever we can to help us enhance our business. This means the bands. We hire bands to bring the people to the club, to drink, eat and enjoy the music. If all we ever did was play music (other than hip-hop or techno) with a DJ, people would never come in. So we need to hire the bands that people will come to see.
That said we are now addressing every one of you in a band now. Over the past several weeks, we have seen enough of what has plagued the club in the past. Bands that bring very few if anyone, and then expect to get paid. As we see it, if we are paying you to play at our club, then we are the employer and you are the employee. And this is notice to all the employees and potential employees out there. We are hiring you and rely on you to bring people to hear your music. It is the responsibility of a band to promote and bring as many people as they can to where they are playing. Just like any promotion out there, if they do not or will not promote their event, then nobody will know it exists or will come. No money is made that way. Now does this mean we will not promote either? Of course not! But we will not spend financially beyond our means either, when we already have to pay you to be here. We are already in business and will focus our spending on what makes us more money. Bands want to make money as well, but they also need to prove to be an asset to the business they play for. That being the case, several bands that have played at Boomerz will not be welcomed back. When a band only brings 5 people then demands that we pay them for playing there, it puts us at a loss in revenue. Why should we bring them back? How many people do you band members know? How many people are in your band and how many people do they know? I myself know at least 100 people. 20 of which are close friends or family that I could get to come pay a cover charge to see me perform. That alone takes no promotion. And if I didn't promote, I sure am going to need to rely on the people I know to come out and support me for that one night. Promotion is a large part of talent for a band to have. If you cannot promote your music, then you may as well stay in your garage and never play out.
Therefore there are new directives being put forth.
1. Effective immediately bands booked at the club will be paid ONLY if they bring not LESS than 25 people. This is 25 people PER BAND. Payment will be negotiated by the club's booker but will be voided if you cannot bring 25 people
2. All bands will be monitored and rated according to how much they promote when booked at Boomerz. Here on MySpace, other ads, and especially putting posters in the club. There are so many ways out there to promote your band! You just have to make the commitment to do it!
If you cannot promote enough nor have a following of at least 25 people, you make the club no overhead, which in return you will not be paid. We will no longer take a loss at the door and at the bar because you did not promote yourself. It takes a lot of money to operate a nightclub the size of this one, from paying for the sound system, the sound tech to the maintenance staff, bartenders, barbacks, and soon to be added waitress. Also, security, the power, AC, garbage, cups, napkins, straws, food and replacement of alcohol consumed and the one million dollar insurance policy required in the even of a disaster! On top of that the expenses to repair any damage that may occur from those that decide to be destructive. These are all expenses that we have every night the club is open! Not to mention the current state of the club from the previous owners that is going to cost thousands of dollars to put back into shape. And finally to have to pay your band that brought 5 people on top of all that is frankly insulting! We already had to raise the prices at the door to ridiculous heights, something we cannot keep forcing on the fans. It is NOT their fault! They don't know you are here! We simply cannot fight for the original music scene anymore if the bands themselves do not fight for themselves. We realize many of you are in it for the fun of it, that is great and we are interested IF you have a good following. But many more are in it in the hopes of being signed to a label some day. Those are the bands that should be fighting HARD and promoting themselves for that following not only to finance their recordings and merch, but to tour from venue to venue to hopefully be heard eventually by a label.
If you cannot commit to these very simple directives then please, do not ask to be booked here. If we find that original music still cannot support the club then we will either cut down the amount of nights, or simply remove it from the club all together and go back to Cover and Tribute classic/southern rock bands as well as occasional national bands. Believe us, we very much want to be here for you, but you have to be here for us as well. The more income the club has the more we can promote you to better avenues of media. And also we can make a better environment for our great customers! This is a win/win situation for us all if we can all make this work. If not then like City Lights, The Masquerade, and others, Boomerz will either cease to exist, or simply deny original music. This is your choice, we have already made ours.
And to our great current and new customers, we are committed to bringing you the best entertainment, events and an awesome atmosphere here at the NEW Boomerz. Things will change all the way around for the better, and there will soon be extra nights added for the enjoyment of everyone.
To everyone, thank you all, and lets make 2006 a great revitalizing year for Boomerz!!!
Boomerz Management.
My space posting from a bar in Florida
A Note To Boomerz Management:
In an ongoing attempt to maintain business-like repartee, the members of the music community applaud you on your decision to minimize your risk exposure in the local Tampa club scene.
As a group, local music acts have had a meeting, and have indeed decided to meet the terms and conditions you have set forth. Due to our own business interests, and the desire to benefit from same, however, you must meet the following terms and conditions, which are not negotiable except at our own discretion:
First, your facilities must be flawless in every way, with an emphasis on cleanliness, low drink and food prices, comfortable atmosphere, and prompt and friendly waitstaff. Our audience comfort is paramount, and in fact, they won't stay in a hot smoky room for very long, and a lack of toilet paper in the ladies room is not a minor problem. Also, as we are employees, you should provide a safe and comfortable atmosphere for us, if you intend to lure us away from employers who pay more.
Second, we both realize that empty rooms are not profitable. Full rooms can be very lucrative, however, and since the risk assumed is to ours alone, the pay scale must reflect that. Therefore, at the end of each performance, we will be shown the evening's drink receipts, and all other pertinent book-keeping related to incoming sales. This is necessary for openness, and to prevent abuse. Once we have established the true amount of gross sales from your books, we can then refer to a sliding scale as to what percentage of that gross we will take. Because promotion is our responsibilty, and an empty club means less pay, a full club will be construed as more pay, since it is obvious that a lack of entertainment would not fill your facility with clubgoers. This sliding scale must favor the employees/musicians, in order to serve as an incentive. For example, the minimum of 25 attendees would net us 20% of the gross, and we would indeed take a financial loss. As a businessperson you are aware that promotion costs money. A crowd of 250, ten times the minimum, would net us 50% of the gross. This is a increase of 1000% more attendees for only 30% more of the profit. A crowd of 500 would get us 70% of gross, and so forth. We think you'll agree this is a very good bargain. You assume little risk, and stand to share great profits with us. Isn't sharing what it's all about?
In addition, we will supply a doorman, and collect 100% of the door charge. This is non-negotiable. If we are completely responsible for putting behinds in seats, we are to be completely remunerated for same. Nobody will pay a cover charge for a club holding no entertainment. Since we are assuming that risk, we set the door charge as well. Because we play more than just your establishment, we know better than you what folks will pay to simply get in the door. We also hold the right to allow in anyone we want for free, or not allow in at all. Most people we would allow in the door are there to buy alcohol, which benefits you on the sliding scale.
We cannot set your drink prices, but would remind you that people will only pay so much, no matter how good the band is. You will need to find the proper balance between price, overhead, and volume to maximize your profit. This is how business works.
Finally, you cannot be allowed to influence our song choice, performance caliber, sound volume, set-up and teardown time, and sundry other cases where a club would influence what a musical act does. This no longer concerns you, because we are assuming the risk. We do not tell you how to operate your bar, and your assistance in running our business is not needed.
Thanks so much for taking such a businesslike tactic where we are concerned. It shows a desire to make money, to which we are all striving. We understand that these terms are somewhat heavy-handed when compared to how it was, so we have agreed to rescind the terms and conditions described herein, depending on the following caveat:
If you can convince Exxon/Mobil to base our gasoline expenses on whether or not we earn a profit, and change our current business relationships with Fender, Marshall, Shure, Crown, Mackie, Yamaha, D'Addario, Ford, Daimler-Chrysler, Penelec, Dominion Peoples, Verizon, Foodland, and our landlords; at that point we will ease up on the sliding scale.
Business is indeed business. Thank you for your time, and expect a new contract from our legal representation shortly.
So, is that how it should be? We assume more risk, we assume more of the profit. How can that not be fair? Musicians may appear to be stupid at first glance, and some are, but we're not a commodity, or less astute than club management. You pay us to get a crowd to do something (drink more alcohol) better than you can by yourself. Don't believe that? Stop having entertainment, and see.
Please don't flame me. I kept my language businesslike and sterile as someone in my position can. I truly believe that fair business practice is a good thing, and want Boomerz management to know their change in terms will be two-sided. Bear in mind, I can take my toys and go play somewhere else. My prediction is that Boomerz' internet jukebox will be the only thing there that people will want to listen to. The bands will do what businesses do: follow the money.--------->JMS
In an ongoing attempt to maintain business-like repartee, the members of the music community applaud you on your decision to minimize your risk exposure in the local Tampa club scene.
As a group, local music acts have had a meeting, and have indeed decided to meet the terms and conditions you have set forth. Due to our own business interests, and the desire to benefit from same, however, you must meet the following terms and conditions, which are not negotiable except at our own discretion:
First, your facilities must be flawless in every way, with an emphasis on cleanliness, low drink and food prices, comfortable atmosphere, and prompt and friendly waitstaff. Our audience comfort is paramount, and in fact, they won't stay in a hot smoky room for very long, and a lack of toilet paper in the ladies room is not a minor problem. Also, as we are employees, you should provide a safe and comfortable atmosphere for us, if you intend to lure us away from employers who pay more.
Second, we both realize that empty rooms are not profitable. Full rooms can be very lucrative, however, and since the risk assumed is to ours alone, the pay scale must reflect that. Therefore, at the end of each performance, we will be shown the evening's drink receipts, and all other pertinent book-keeping related to incoming sales. This is necessary for openness, and to prevent abuse. Once we have established the true amount of gross sales from your books, we can then refer to a sliding scale as to what percentage of that gross we will take. Because promotion is our responsibilty, and an empty club means less pay, a full club will be construed as more pay, since it is obvious that a lack of entertainment would not fill your facility with clubgoers. This sliding scale must favor the employees/musicians, in order to serve as an incentive. For example, the minimum of 25 attendees would net us 20% of the gross, and we would indeed take a financial loss. As a businessperson you are aware that promotion costs money. A crowd of 250, ten times the minimum, would net us 50% of the gross. This is a increase of 1000% more attendees for only 30% more of the profit. A crowd of 500 would get us 70% of gross, and so forth. We think you'll agree this is a very good bargain. You assume little risk, and stand to share great profits with us. Isn't sharing what it's all about?
In addition, we will supply a doorman, and collect 100% of the door charge. This is non-negotiable. If we are completely responsible for putting behinds in seats, we are to be completely remunerated for same. Nobody will pay a cover charge for a club holding no entertainment. Since we are assuming that risk, we set the door charge as well. Because we play more than just your establishment, we know better than you what folks will pay to simply get in the door. We also hold the right to allow in anyone we want for free, or not allow in at all. Most people we would allow in the door are there to buy alcohol, which benefits you on the sliding scale.
We cannot set your drink prices, but would remind you that people will only pay so much, no matter how good the band is. You will need to find the proper balance between price, overhead, and volume to maximize your profit. This is how business works.
Finally, you cannot be allowed to influence our song choice, performance caliber, sound volume, set-up and teardown time, and sundry other cases where a club would influence what a musical act does. This no longer concerns you, because we are assuming the risk. We do not tell you how to operate your bar, and your assistance in running our business is not needed.
Thanks so much for taking such a businesslike tactic where we are concerned. It shows a desire to make money, to which we are all striving. We understand that these terms are somewhat heavy-handed when compared to how it was, so we have agreed to rescind the terms and conditions described herein, depending on the following caveat:
If you can convince Exxon/Mobil to base our gasoline expenses on whether or not we earn a profit, and change our current business relationships with Fender, Marshall, Shure, Crown, Mackie, Yamaha, D'Addario, Ford, Daimler-Chrysler, Penelec, Dominion Peoples, Verizon, Foodland, and our landlords; at that point we will ease up on the sliding scale.
Business is indeed business. Thank you for your time, and expect a new contract from our legal representation shortly.
So, is that how it should be? We assume more risk, we assume more of the profit. How can that not be fair? Musicians may appear to be stupid at first glance, and some are, but we're not a commodity, or less astute than club management. You pay us to get a crowd to do something (drink more alcohol) better than you can by yourself. Don't believe that? Stop having entertainment, and see.
Please don't flame me. I kept my language businesslike and sterile as someone in my position can. I truly believe that fair business practice is a good thing, and want Boomerz management to know their change in terms will be two-sided. Bear in mind, I can take my toys and go play somewhere else. My prediction is that Boomerz' internet jukebox will be the only thing there that people will want to listen to. The bands will do what businesses do: follow the money.--------->JMS
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DirtySanchez
- Diamond Member
- Posts: 4186
- Joined: Tuesday Feb 14, 2006
- Location: On teh internetz
- Contact:
No wonder the scene sucks. It's everybody elses fault.
Don't blame each other, do something about it.
Both clubs and bands need to work together.
Money cannot be the priority in business. If you think I'm wrong go read a book called "Built To Last". Money needs to be the reward for working hard. That's why minimum wage is such a big deal, there are simply too many lazy ass people. If you want to make more than the minimum work hard and prove your worth more it's not easy but it'll get you farther than luck or fate or whatever you blame your problems on.
Don't blame each other, do something about it.
Both clubs and bands need to work together.
Money cannot be the priority in business. If you think I'm wrong go read a book called "Built To Last". Money needs to be the reward for working hard. That's why minimum wage is such a big deal, there are simply too many lazy ass people. If you want to make more than the minimum work hard and prove your worth more it's not easy but it'll get you farther than luck or fate or whatever you blame your problems on.
"You are now either a clueless inbred brownshirt Teabagger, or a babykilling hippie Marxist on welfare."-Songsmith
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DirtySanchez
- Diamond Member
- Posts: 4186
- Joined: Tuesday Feb 14, 2006
- Location: On teh internetz
- Contact:
Wow, if you think that looking at the total sales will tell you the profit of the night, you are so wrong. And I did not read where the bar was saying that it was totally up to the band to do all of the promotions. My understanding was that they were encouraging the bands to make sure they get the word out to their regular following.
Drink prices lower???? Let's do the math:
A band costs: $400 (Sort of the average around here. Some lower, some higher)
door: $5 a person (usually the average)
Now, if you can get 80 people at the door, you pay the band....that's great! I would love that night! But, if you get only 40 people in, you pay $200 out of your pocket for the band.
Now, profit on alcohol....well, when you sell beer at $2 a dom. bottle, $1 draft, and shots for $2....you are not making a whole lot on the alcohol sales.....in order to make up that $200 you still owe for the band, you would need to have alcohol sales of about...$450. Now that does not take into account the other overhead...the electric, the heat in the winter/ac in the summer, your staff (who are way under tipped in our area), toilet paper in the restroom (we never run out or I'd be pissed), etc.
It has to be a joint effort between the bar and the band for it to work. Most all bands we've had from around the area are wonderful. There are only a very few of them that did not say at the end of a bad night that we need to pay the full fee. There was one from out of the area who was suppose to really bring people in and he was a bomb....required an opening band because he didn't want to bring his own equipment...we ended up paying both acts full fee and lost our butts on that night.
That one act is the only one I think I would ever refuse to work with again....the others, I'll probably try to work them in but we aren't having bands as often as we used to because we lost too much money. We are slowly building it up....and hopefully at some point, we will have bands more often as time goes on.
Drink prices lower???? Let's do the math:
A band costs: $400 (Sort of the average around here. Some lower, some higher)
door: $5 a person (usually the average)
Now, if you can get 80 people at the door, you pay the band....that's great! I would love that night! But, if you get only 40 people in, you pay $200 out of your pocket for the band.
Now, profit on alcohol....well, when you sell beer at $2 a dom. bottle, $1 draft, and shots for $2....you are not making a whole lot on the alcohol sales.....in order to make up that $200 you still owe for the band, you would need to have alcohol sales of about...$450. Now that does not take into account the other overhead...the electric, the heat in the winter/ac in the summer, your staff (who are way under tipped in our area), toilet paper in the restroom (we never run out or I'd be pissed), etc.
It has to be a joint effort between the bar and the band for it to work. Most all bands we've had from around the area are wonderful. There are only a very few of them that did not say at the end of a bad night that we need to pay the full fee. There was one from out of the area who was suppose to really bring people in and he was a bomb....required an opening band because he didn't want to bring his own equipment...we ended up paying both acts full fee and lost our butts on that night.
That one act is the only one I think I would ever refuse to work with again....the others, I'll probably try to work them in but we aren't having bands as often as we used to because we lost too much money. We are slowly building it up....and hopefully at some point, we will have bands more often as time goes on.
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nightcrawler_steve
Every time I read that assinine thing I wanna puke.
Songsmith.....PRICELESS yo! If you dont post that on their myspace site I will. That rocks dude! Oh my god Im laughing so hard right now.
Lisa....Im sure youre a nice lady.....maybe youre place just isnt the place for bands?!?!?! And I do understand what your saying, but posting that from a club in TAMPA and trying to compare that to this area is a joke. Its an absolute insult to the bands who do the right thing.
My trip to Philly tonight for 15% of the door after the first $200 to the club will be much easier to swallow now - thanks. Im all about the money ya know
My goal in life is to take every last bit of profit from the clubs I play in.
I cant wait to come in and read the responses to this Monday morning. Have a great weekend everyone!
My name is Steve and approve this message.
Songsmith.....PRICELESS yo! If you dont post that on their myspace site I will. That rocks dude! Oh my god Im laughing so hard right now.
Lisa....Im sure youre a nice lady.....maybe youre place just isnt the place for bands?!?!?! And I do understand what your saying, but posting that from a club in TAMPA and trying to compare that to this area is a joke. Its an absolute insult to the bands who do the right thing.
My trip to Philly tonight for 15% of the door after the first $200 to the club will be much easier to swallow now - thanks. Im all about the money ya know
My goal in life is to take every last bit of profit from the clubs I play in.I cant wait to come in and read the responses to this Monday morning. Have a great weekend everyone!
My name is Steve and approve this message.
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DirtySanchez
- Diamond Member
- Posts: 4186
- Joined: Tuesday Feb 14, 2006
- Location: On teh internetz
- Contact:
Are you saying that alcohol sales does not go up when you have entertainment? Maybe you're better off not having bands.
Not to sound like a dick but it's seemingly inevitable with me.
In my job, my career, I'm a sales manager, if my salespeople don't close deals and the company loses money, the company doesn't blame the salespeople. They blame me, as I blame myself because I hired them, trained them and if they don't cut it I made either a hiring mistake or a training mistake and did the employee and my company an injustice.
Hold yourself accountable first. If you took a bands word and guaranteed X amount of $ without doing the leg work like contacting references like other clubs they play etc. guess what? Your fault, pay the man and don't blame him for a bad business decision. Now the guy will never play there again, could've been a fluke or maybe he wasn't what the crowd was looking for, or maybe he sucked. We (musicians) don't like to play to empty seats and bar staff suck as an audience cuz, when nobodies buying drinks their not getting tipped. I'm sorry if it seems I'm ranting here but I never bitch and blame people when we have a slow show.
I think what can I do next time to avoid this? I don't see any of that in the initial post and quite frankly that mentality annoys the hell out of me.
Not to sound like a dick but it's seemingly inevitable with me.
In my job, my career, I'm a sales manager, if my salespeople don't close deals and the company loses money, the company doesn't blame the salespeople. They blame me, as I blame myself because I hired them, trained them and if they don't cut it I made either a hiring mistake or a training mistake and did the employee and my company an injustice.
Hold yourself accountable first. If you took a bands word and guaranteed X amount of $ without doing the leg work like contacting references like other clubs they play etc. guess what? Your fault, pay the man and don't blame him for a bad business decision. Now the guy will never play there again, could've been a fluke or maybe he wasn't what the crowd was looking for, or maybe he sucked. We (musicians) don't like to play to empty seats and bar staff suck as an audience cuz, when nobodies buying drinks their not getting tipped. I'm sorry if it seems I'm ranting here but I never bitch and blame people when we have a slow show.
I think what can I do next time to avoid this? I don't see any of that in the initial post and quite frankly that mentality annoys the hell out of me.
"You are now either a clueless inbred brownshirt Teabagger, or a babykilling hippie Marxist on welfare."-Songsmith
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bassist_25
- Senior Member
- Posts: 6815
- Joined: Monday Dec 09, 2002
- Location: Indiana
Bingo! That's how it works. If a band doesn't draw, then it's time to shake hands and call it a day. That's the risk a club takes. Of course, there are ways to minimize the risk. The solution this Tampa club has is just pure asinine. Bands are contracted to perform a service to a bar. The arrogance of the Tamper owners if funny, like they're doing bands a favor by allowing them to play on their stage. That would be like me starting a business and then acting like I'm doing the IT guy a favor by letting him work on my computers. Besides, if a bar IN FUCKIN' TAMPA can't draw more than 20 people in on a Saturday, well I think that maybe the bar has some problems of its own. I'm bassist_25 and I also approve of Steve's message.jangel wrote:A former owner of a popular nitespot which I was a friend of and played in his place once told me that if the band didn't draw enough people to pay for itself and the extra staff hired for that nite (through the cover charge) the band would not be offered back.
Johnny you should send that message to that club.
"He's the electric horseman, you better back off!" - old sKool making a reference to the culturally relevant 1979 film.
I guess I didn't read the initial posting from myspace the same way...I didn't see where they were putting it all on the band to do promotions. I took it that they would still promote and do their part. And I didn't say that I would want to have any band in this part guarantee a certain draw...heck even the best band in our parts can have a lousy night if there is a camp party in the area.
for the most part, the alcohol sales do go up...but you have to look at much more than that. The cost of the higher sale isn't always worth it.
Yes, as newer owners, (our second year of business) we are still trying to find out what works and what doesn't. If I didn't care, think I would even bother to come here and post these things? I come here because I want to learn from you guys who are out there.
I took it that the bar in tampa was just saying that they will continue to promote and do things to try to bring the draw in and that all they were asking from the bands that play there is bring some of your regulars in and if you don't have regulars, they can't have you there.
Now bring that to central PA...heck you can't expect a band to always bring a crowd. But I can expect a band to let their following know where they are playing and try to bring as many of them in as possible.
I always contact the bands that are playing and let them know what gimics I have up my sleeve for their night. For example, in two weeks, The Amplified Heet are playing. We are having jagermeister sponsor the night with giveaways and jager girls. We are also bringing in a shot that has never been sold in the state yet called Nite Owl Shots. I'm taking a huge...I mean HUGE...risk with these drinks. But I want to have a unique offering. And I'm not selling these drinks for the recommended price of $8-10 a drink...I'm charging $5. I just want an unique offering on our band nights.
I did not think the original post was blaming bands. I took it as a 'let's work together to get the crowd' type thing. I know for a fact, that if a band brings 20 people in, the regulars will follow because they noticed a small crowd forming.
I dunno...still trying to figure it all out.
for the most part, the alcohol sales do go up...but you have to look at much more than that. The cost of the higher sale isn't always worth it.
Yes, as newer owners, (our second year of business) we are still trying to find out what works and what doesn't. If I didn't care, think I would even bother to come here and post these things? I come here because I want to learn from you guys who are out there.
I took it that the bar in tampa was just saying that they will continue to promote and do things to try to bring the draw in and that all they were asking from the bands that play there is bring some of your regulars in and if you don't have regulars, they can't have you there.
Now bring that to central PA...heck you can't expect a band to always bring a crowd. But I can expect a band to let their following know where they are playing and try to bring as many of them in as possible.
I always contact the bands that are playing and let them know what gimics I have up my sleeve for their night. For example, in two weeks, The Amplified Heet are playing. We are having jagermeister sponsor the night with giveaways and jager girls. We are also bringing in a shot that has never been sold in the state yet called Nite Owl Shots. I'm taking a huge...I mean HUGE...risk with these drinks. But I want to have a unique offering. And I'm not selling these drinks for the recommended price of $8-10 a drink...I'm charging $5. I just want an unique offering on our band nights.
I did not think the original post was blaming bands. I took it as a 'let's work together to get the crowd' type thing. I know for a fact, that if a band brings 20 people in, the regulars will follow because they noticed a small crowd forming.
I dunno...still trying to figure it all out.
DirtySanchez makes a great point. If you garuntee a band 400.00 and end up paying out of your pocket..that is not the bands fault, you made the CHOICE of giving a garuntee. I can't even imagine all the headaches of running a bar, and a lot of bands totally respect the people that do, but posting a "statement" like that bar in Tampa did, will just make you sound pompous and arrogant...even if that is not your intnetion.
You know greaser...that's the type of response I really wanted. I wanted opinions on the statement. Thanksgreaser wrote:DirtySanchez makes a great point. If you garuntee a band 400.00 and end up paying out of your pocket..that is not the bands fault, you made the CHOICE of giving a garuntee. I can't even imagine all the headaches of running a bar, and a lot of bands totally respect the people that do, but posting a "statement" like that bar in Tampa did, will just make you sound pompous and arrogant...even if that is not your intnetion.
Exactly. I have nothing against local clubs, I'm in them a LOT. It's just that around here, we work together on that stuff. If we have a bad night, and you ask me to, I'll definitely give you a break on the fee, because I want to keep you as a client. The Boomerz statement sounded to me like they are doing me a favor working there. I do NOT want to be treated like a second-class busboy (incidentally, the busboy position teaches you a lot about life, and how to take crap from people for a little money). I wouldn't play Boomerz if I lost a bet. If I wanted to be an employee, I'd simply go get a day job.
Boomerz has put musicians in a position where they will assume more of the risk, without any discernible benefit to them, and it wouldn't fly in any other line of work. I can't pretend to tell anyone how to operate their business. I can, however tell how I would react.----->JMS
Boomerz has put musicians in a position where they will assume more of the risk, without any discernible benefit to them, and it wouldn't fly in any other line of work. I can't pretend to tell anyone how to operate their business. I can, however tell how I would react.----->JMS
I see both sides of the issues here as I have been playing for 36 years and I have seen it all. I have worked with many club owners and have helped when things were slow but rarely have been paid more when things were great. I have helped some club owners with marketing and promotions to help them get more business. I have also been cheated by many of them but most of them are no longer in business. Being in a band is a business just as running a club is a business. We all agree that things in this area are tough, people do not go out like they used to, and bands make less today than they did 25-30 years ago while prices of everything else have gone up. We all expect a fair wage for our services; especially when we depend on this income to pay our bills. I don't know many people who would put in all the work musicians do for what they get paid. Yes, we all need to work together so that the clubs and the bands all benefit so we can all survive and continue to work and do what we love to do - play in a band.
First, I applaud Songsmith's business like rationale rebuttal since he used the exact same type of philosophic thinking that the club owners in Tampa used only from a band's perspective.
Since the club owners in Tampa used the phrase that the bands are employees and they are the employer, does that mean they will pay unemployment and other taxes and other benefits on their behalf? Does that mean that they expect their bartenders, wait staff, doorman, etc. to bring in patrons on the days they work and their wages are contingent on the number of people and the amount of profit earned that day?
First, I applaud Songsmith's business like rationale rebuttal since he used the exact same type of philosophic thinking that the club owners in Tampa used only from a band's perspective.
Since the club owners in Tampa used the phrase that the bands are employees and they are the employer, does that mean they will pay unemployment and other taxes and other benefits on their behalf? Does that mean that they expect their bartenders, wait staff, doorman, etc. to bring in patrons on the days they work and their wages are contingent on the number of people and the amount of profit earned that day?
Did anybody catch the fact that the Boomerz ultimatum only applied to original bands and not cover bands?
If you read into it, it seems like they are possibly trying to give original bands a chance to play rather than just deny them altogether.
If that is the case, then whoever wrote the statement can't get a point across without alienating people.
Has UCJoe been in Tampa lately?
If you read into it, it seems like they are possibly trying to give original bands a chance to play rather than just deny them altogether.
If that is the case, then whoever wrote the statement can't get a point across without alienating people.
Has UCJoe been in Tampa lately?
... and then the wheel fell off.
This is exactly what bugs me about the Tampa bar's statement. Sure, the bar hires a band to bring in people. But isn't EVERYTHING that a bar does designed to bring in people? For example:moxham123 wrote:Does that mean that they expect their bartenders, wait staff, doorman, etc. to bring in patrons on the days they work and their wages are contingent on the number of people and the amount of profit earned that day?
- You keep the bathrooms clean so people will come out to your bar. If nobody shows up, do you refuse to pay the janitor?
- You put up TVs so people will come to the bar and watch them. If nobody shows up, does that mean you don't have to pay your cable bill? Does Circuit City owe you a refund for the TV nobody is watching?
- You advertise to bring people out to the bar. If nobody shows up, do you think the radio station/newspaper/TV station should be expected to charge you for the advertisements they already ran?
- You hire a band to bring people in. If nobody shows up, should the band get paid? Hell no! What are they, assholes or something?
Ouch!!Ron wrote:If that is the case, then whoever wrote the statement can't get a point across without alienating people.
Has UCJoe been in Tampa lately?
It's definitely wild to see UCJoe go off on somebody on Rockpage, because you talk to him in person and he's one of the friendliest, most pleasant guys you'll ever meet.
I don't think there's anyway that the boomerz philosophy could work for you, I don't know, I've never been there, but I am under the impression that houtzdale is not a booming city, which means that more than likely, most of your bands are coming from out of the area, how are they expected to do the promotion for someplace, they quite possibly have never been?
I also agree wholeheartedly with what jimi hatt said. If you hire a band, and they do a good job, how is it their fault that noone was there to hear them?
if a band plays, people show up, and they leave because the band sucks, well thats a whole other story, and I wouldn't book them again.
the way I see it, there are two things a band can do for you. They can keep the customers that are there entertained, or they can bring in new customers.
I am not in a position to provide you with the second, but I am in a position to provide you with the first.
so you need to look at what you need a band to do. if you need a band to draw a crowd, then hire a band that draws a crowd, but keep in mind that those bands cost a lot more money.
if you need a band to keep your customers entertained, increase the flow of alcohol because everyones having a good time, then hire a band like that (us, shameless plug) However, keep in mind that all of these bands were not created equal. Its up to you to find out who is good, who is not good, who can draw a crowd, who can entertain a crowd, and who will cause a crowd to run screaming out the door.
if the band you are considering hiring has never played there before, find out if they have recordings, if they don't have recordings, find out where they have played before, and get references, if they havn't played anywhere before, well its up to you to decide if you want to take the risk or not (my guess is you do not)
but as I was saying, don't expect me to bring 25 people to a bar I've never been to, and a place that I have never even heard of, aside from the fact that some rockpagers are from there.
I also agree wholeheartedly with what jimi hatt said. If you hire a band, and they do a good job, how is it their fault that noone was there to hear them?
if a band plays, people show up, and they leave because the band sucks, well thats a whole other story, and I wouldn't book them again.
the way I see it, there are two things a band can do for you. They can keep the customers that are there entertained, or they can bring in new customers.
I am not in a position to provide you with the second, but I am in a position to provide you with the first.
so you need to look at what you need a band to do. if you need a band to draw a crowd, then hire a band that draws a crowd, but keep in mind that those bands cost a lot more money.
if you need a band to keep your customers entertained, increase the flow of alcohol because everyones having a good time, then hire a band like that (us, shameless plug) However, keep in mind that all of these bands were not created equal. Its up to you to find out who is good, who is not good, who can draw a crowd, who can entertain a crowd, and who will cause a crowd to run screaming out the door.
if the band you are considering hiring has never played there before, find out if they have recordings, if they don't have recordings, find out where they have played before, and get references, if they havn't played anywhere before, well its up to you to decide if you want to take the risk or not (my guess is you do not)
but as I was saying, don't expect me to bring 25 people to a bar I've never been to, and a place that I have never even heard of, aside from the fact that some rockpagers are from there.
Stand back, I like to rock out.
I can see both sides of the fence on this issue. I agree that the Boomerz statement comes off as pompous; but they are in a big market, Tampa, so they probably have more bands banging on their doors to play, plus a fiercer level of competition with other venues.
I think venues and bands BOTH need to do everything they possibly can to try to promote shows, draw people and make show experiences successful. I've seen instances on both sides of the fence over the years where shows have succeeded because of cooperation and effort from both the venue and band, and I have seen many instances where shows have resulted in empty rooms because either the venue or band - or both - did nothing to promote or draw people in the door. If I had a nickel for every time I've seen a band play a new room, not lift a finger to promote the gig, draw a single-digit number of people and then gripe about not getting paid the proper amount, I could retire in luxury. But then I also remember the Engine Room, which would book national-caliber acts and do nothing to promote them, and then the owner lamenting why nobody came to the shows. It didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why that venue eventually closed up shop.
As I wrote in my recap of the recent Millennium Music Conference, I saw an instance where a band took advantage of a situation to promote their gig. It was during the M&T Saturdays outdoor concert event early Saturday evening along 2nd Street in downtown Harrisburg. It was a concert with the Aerosmith tribute band Draw The Line playing. There were lots of people there, including music fans and passers-by; almost like a Wing-Off crowd locally. In the Harrisburg vicinity that night, there were at least 50 bands and artists playing Millennium showcase gigs. And there were also probably a number of local bands doing regular Saturday gigs around Harrisburg as well. But during M&T Saturdays, I only saw ONE band - a group from Long Island called Hyjinx, who had already performed their Millennium showcase earlier in the weekend - out in that crowd and handing out flyers for their show later that night, at a little bar called The Epic Bar. Here was this opportunity to get the word about shows out to a large number of people, and only one band - not even from that town - that was taking advantage of it. I understand the Epic Bar only can hold about 50 people comfortably (anyone from Harrisburg reading can verify or refute this); if only a fraction of the people Hyjinx handed flyers to showed up that night, they probably had a full house!
Over the past three Thursdays, I have attended the Lakemont Park Wing-Off's, which are always a crowd magnet here in Altoona. A lot of the bar crowd shows up at these things - a perfect opportunity to promote upcoming shows for any given weekend. How many bands have I seen promoting their gigs at the Wing-Off's so far this year? Goose-egg. Zero. Zilch. And except for the venues already there serving wings, I've not seen any area bars out there promoting their upcoming schedules, either. What a lost opportunity to get the word out!
Sorry if I'm coming off negative, but the point is, venues and bands should both be doing their parts to promote their shows to ensure the best chance at success. But too few seem to actually step up to the plate to do it, or take advantage of the avenues available for them to do so. If you want crowds and success, you have to work at it, and invest some time, effort, and even money into your promotion and marketing if you want to see results.
I think venues and bands BOTH need to do everything they possibly can to try to promote shows, draw people and make show experiences successful. I've seen instances on both sides of the fence over the years where shows have succeeded because of cooperation and effort from both the venue and band, and I have seen many instances where shows have resulted in empty rooms because either the venue or band - or both - did nothing to promote or draw people in the door. If I had a nickel for every time I've seen a band play a new room, not lift a finger to promote the gig, draw a single-digit number of people and then gripe about not getting paid the proper amount, I could retire in luxury. But then I also remember the Engine Room, which would book national-caliber acts and do nothing to promote them, and then the owner lamenting why nobody came to the shows. It didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why that venue eventually closed up shop.
As I wrote in my recap of the recent Millennium Music Conference, I saw an instance where a band took advantage of a situation to promote their gig. It was during the M&T Saturdays outdoor concert event early Saturday evening along 2nd Street in downtown Harrisburg. It was a concert with the Aerosmith tribute band Draw The Line playing. There were lots of people there, including music fans and passers-by; almost like a Wing-Off crowd locally. In the Harrisburg vicinity that night, there were at least 50 bands and artists playing Millennium showcase gigs. And there were also probably a number of local bands doing regular Saturday gigs around Harrisburg as well. But during M&T Saturdays, I only saw ONE band - a group from Long Island called Hyjinx, who had already performed their Millennium showcase earlier in the weekend - out in that crowd and handing out flyers for their show later that night, at a little bar called The Epic Bar. Here was this opportunity to get the word about shows out to a large number of people, and only one band - not even from that town - that was taking advantage of it. I understand the Epic Bar only can hold about 50 people comfortably (anyone from Harrisburg reading can verify or refute this); if only a fraction of the people Hyjinx handed flyers to showed up that night, they probably had a full house!
Over the past three Thursdays, I have attended the Lakemont Park Wing-Off's, which are always a crowd magnet here in Altoona. A lot of the bar crowd shows up at these things - a perfect opportunity to promote upcoming shows for any given weekend. How many bands have I seen promoting their gigs at the Wing-Off's so far this year? Goose-egg. Zero. Zilch. And except for the venues already there serving wings, I've not seen any area bars out there promoting their upcoming schedules, either. What a lost opportunity to get the word out!
Sorry if I'm coming off negative, but the point is, venues and bands should both be doing their parts to promote their shows to ensure the best chance at success. But too few seem to actually step up to the plate to do it, or take advantage of the avenues available for them to do so. If you want crowds and success, you have to work at it, and invest some time, effort, and even money into your promotion and marketing if you want to see results.
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DirtySanchez
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A band that will have patrons screaming, running for the door in houtzdale=Fedup (I'm pretty sure em Boys'd kill us up'ere and I'm friends with a lot of them.) Just not their cup o' tea. or dip o' snuff to be more precise. But they sure are fun as hell to party with
"You are now either a clueless inbred brownshirt Teabagger, or a babykilling hippie Marxist on welfare."-Songsmith
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DirtySanchez
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JP is absolutely right about promoting. I've used the wing off for promoting every band I've been in. You can bet you'll see me there the next two weeks promoting our 8/11 CD release party at Aldo's. Every big gathering gives you the opportunity to do this. It's the season for Fairs and Festivals so get your asses to work Pimping that shit out. Just shy away from funerals they tend to get pissed.
"You are now either a clueless inbred brownshirt Teabagger, or a babykilling hippie Marxist on welfare."-Songsmith