Bob is CONCERNED!!

[Imgrimm01]

I would like to post this and it may be a little controversial and I may come off as judgmental and condescending all of which I want you all to know I’m not. I’m just concerned, Also I would like to say that my views are not in all cases the views of my brothers in THEGRIMM I cannot speak for them and I am not this is me if they have opinions in these matters they may post freely as replies just as the rest of you will. I want to say that I am as Liberal as they come I believe that what one does with his or her life is their business and so I post this as an observation, a concern, a friend and a musician who loves all his brothers in arms and lastly and this is important I am not aiming this post at any one individual or individuals it is a general observation!! Ok so now you’re all wondering what the hell is this guy getting at… Here then is my post.
I have noticed a huge presence of cocaine in the area as of late, I know that it’s been around forever BUT I mean BIG. It seems to be everywhere now and a lot more people using it than even just 1 year ago, it seems to be getting a little out of hand and let me say that this is one of those drugs that you always believe you have control of all the way to the end whatever the end is for you! The adage of coarse is rock & roll and drugs go hand in hand etc.. and hey a little Marahooch now and again and again ok fine but white isn’t like that I mean watch behind the music sometime .. I kid but really we do need to be careful there are a lot of really amazing musicians in this area but none we can spare!! Again I’m not preaching folks your life is your life !! I just wonder if anyone else has noticed this problem or perhaps no one else believes it’s a problem. But It’s my 2 cents. God I hope I don’t become the next Aja!!

[songsmith]

I hadn't realized it was making a comeback. All you hear about is smack, crack and hillbilly heroin.
Personally i've never touched anything stronger than the hootch, and this is because of someone I met in 1983, when coke was very strong in the big cities. He was in latter-stage coke addiction, and it was all he could do not to cry as he told me, someone he had just met, how bad it was. He didn't use every day, but would if he could get the $$$. His nasal passages were rotted so bad that he was cursed by smelling a "dog-crap smell" that NEVER went away, and woke him up at night when he did try to sleep. he hallucinated... he could feel and SEE worms crawling under his scalp, even though he knew it wasn't true. He lost his job, and lived with his elderly mother, whom he stole from frequently. He said there's a reason they call coke "the big lie." It makes you think you're way cool, that you have a big unit, that people love you. You aren't, your unit won't work, and people hate you because you act like an a-hole.
This guy, along with a price tag of $110 for the weight of a paper clip worth of blow, kept me from learning those lessons my usual way... the hard way. That, and seeing somebody snorting off the top of a urinal... how jonesy do you have to be to do that? Blechh.
Good post, Bob. Musicians get a lot of love from audiences, and that makes us feel invincible sometimes, plus folks are more apt to offer us free goodies, so we're especially vulnerable to substance problems. Nice to see that somebody cares.---->JMS

[onetooloud]

Your absolutely correct in what you said like it or not. I've seen at least one talented indivdual blow everything they had up their nose. In the end they lost everything.

Kudos for the post!!

[Ron]

Cocaine is always a concern of mine too, Bob. I have seen people throw it all away for a line, and have personally been stolen from by a good friend on a binge. I haven't seen him since, and neither has his ex or his twin daughters. They were 2 years old when he wigged out. That was in 1989.
I actually blamed myself for a while since I had left money ($200) sitting out on the kitchen table while I showered for work. He came in to my apartment ( we carpooled ), saw the money, and that was all it took.

Like songsmith, I didn't know coke was making a comeback, and to be honest, meth has the potential to make coke look like a walk in the park. It takes a tropical climate and a cheap labor force to produce cocaine, but a meth lab could be right down the street.

[oobie]

yeah i hear what saying, you didn't here of it then all of the sudden BAM its everywhere, i'm from up the mountain and it seems to be everywhere up there, i hear of kids, i'm talking young kids, talking about doing the s@*t, thats no good, no good at all for a start of some potential young musicians or whatever they might want to become. good post bob

[FatVin]

This is serious shit we're talking here. As somebody who has been alcohol free for 10 years, Addiction is a bitch, It defies all reason and logic, You know you're killing yourself and you still can't stop, at my worst, I would drink until I puked and then reach for another drink. But I thank what ever angels or spirits that might have been watching over me that I never ran into Cocaine or Heroin (another popular little powder around here)

When I was in rehab I watched a guy kick heroin, it was a nightmarish collage of shakes and wails that I wouldn't wish on a broke dick dog and I was only WATCHING, I can't imagine going through all that. I myself had a bout of the DT's (another little thrill ride I don't reccomend, I can't eat calamari to this day) but that was nuthing compared to what I witnessed this guy going through behind heroin. I found out later that even after all that and 30 days at a rehab, and counseling and all that, he went back to the needle and eventually the damage was done. R.I. P.

Anyway, I know that my problems with booze are just that, MY problems and I like to think I'm the last guy to be judgmental about such matters, (both my bass player and my drummer have an occsional brewski, and why not? THEY aren't the ones with the alcohol problem, and I don't mind playing designated driver every once in a while) but watching a friend kill themselves is not an easy thing. Having said that if someone you know is in the grasp of addicition, it's my sad duty inform you that there ain't a helluva a lot you can do about it until THEY THEMSLEVES recognize the need for help (I've got scars on my wrist to prove it.)

The really sad thing is that if (God Forbid) you have a band member who likes the Peruvian Marching Powder a little too much and you say to him (or her) "Hey, man It's the baggie or the band" 999 times out of a thousand they will tell you to go fuck yourself.

Just try to be a friend and pray to whatever higher power you recognize that you will be in a position to help when that person is ready to quit.

anyway this is serious shit we're talking about. But it's good that we're talking about it.

[bassist_25]

I haven't really noticed a higher use of coke around here. I've seen it around occasionally but it's something that I haven't observed as being an epidemic. Still, I haven't been out to any parties recently or socialized with a lot of people I use to know so it could very well be an epidemic. One thing that I know was/possibly still is a problem here is Oxycontin.

I've always said that cocaine is a "status" drug; doing coke is like driving a BMW, eating at a fancy restaurant, or wearing a Gucci dress. Herione is associated with junkies, marijuana is associated with the working class (it use to be immigrant factory workers), E with dancers/ravers, LSD/Shrooms with hippies, peyote with Native Americans, and coke has always been associated with yuppies and celebrities. I think the "glamour" aspect of coke is what draws people to it. I should be paying attention to things like this more since I'll probaly be a pysch major next year.

And I'm not condemning people for usage either. I'm a civil libertarian and I'm definately not immaculate in any sense. I'm all about hendonism and Timothy Leary's philosophy. But the fact is, certain drugs are very dangerous and people need to know about them. It's their choice if they wish to use.

This is why I like to come to Rockpage. I think it's important that we talk about something that's semi-taboo like this.

[oobie]

i agree with FatVin, 9 chances out of ten, theres nothing you yourself can do for somebody its like they have to learn the lesson themselves, you know what i mean? i had a personal friend just messing around with pills and such(and whatever else) OD'd was in the hospital thought he would've learned his lesson? ! nope 2 years later he's laying in the hospital again almost dead don't know how the hell he made it through it, but it was that, ROCK BOTTOM, that made him realize what the heck he was doing to himself and everybody else around. sad but true here the same stuff from alot of people

[RobTheDrummer]

They just did an altoona area drug sweep and low and behold, cocaine and heroin were found. Drugs are a huge problem in any area and cause so many other crimes such as theft, assault, and murder. As aware of this as many of you are, people still want to have all drugs legalized, SO, Once you figure out the damaging consequences of something like drugs, you then realize how much worse the drug using population would be if they were legal and there were no punishment for them.

[byndrsn]

Great topic folk's. The problem in this area is HUGE!!!! I was fortunate enough to take part in Blair Chambers "Leadership of Blair County" class in 2003. One of the topics we were "schooled" on was the drug use in Blair County. Coke is one of the major drugs leading to heroin and get this folks... (sit down for this one) Blair County has over $1,000,000.00 in herion transactions per day! No.... I have my facts straight, that's not a typo.... per day man! How many corps. you know of that have an annual revenue of over $350 mil?

They gave us all kind of interesting tidbits. Fact is that most of the $$$ comes from retail theft. Dealers are even giving "shopping" lists to users to pay for it instead of cash, remember the old "grab and go's" at the mall?

There was this one chic that they interviewed that told them how she used to go into Walmart every Friday and steal a digital camera to pay for her habit.... and never got busted! It's insane man!

Great topic Bob!!

Dan

[ToonaRockGuy]

I've always said that cocaine is a "status" drug; doing coke is like driving a BMW, eating at a fancy restaurant, or wearing a Gucci dress. Herione is associated with junkies, marijuana is associated with the working class (it use to be immigrant factory workers), E with dancers/ravers, LSD/Shrooms with hippies, peyote with Native Americans, and coke has always been associated with yuppies and celebrities. I think the "glamour" aspect of coke is what draws people to it. I should be paying attention to things like this more since I'll probaly be a pysch major next year.

Sorry, bassist25, but you could not be more wrong. Drugs are drugs are drugs, and there is no "status" associated with coke. I have friends (regrettably) that do it, and most of them are on welfare. No beemers, restaraunts or Gucci. More like Old Milwaukee, a pack of Jacks, the want ads and a few lines. You can't associate drugs with classes, because drugs trancsend all class lines. If a junkie wants a fix bad enough, they'll get it, no matter what the class or social status. Maybe 20 years ago during the 70's, but not anymore.

It's really a shame to me when people do drugs. I drink on occasion, but now only when I have a chance to be out, which is less than 3x per month, so my drinking is really non-existant. I've never had the urge to put anything in my veins or up my nose, and I do my damndest to tell people that drugs are really just a waste of time, money, and life.

Great topic, let's hear some more!

[Ron]

Blair County has over $1,000,000.00 in herion transactions per day!

I know that those are the "facts" that you were told, Dan, but there is no way that any drug sales or use statistics can be validated by anyone. How is this possible? If the local gov't really knew that there were 1000 dealers each selling $1000 per day, then why are they letting them continue? If they don't know about the 1000 dealers, then how do they know how much money?

I don't mean to downplay the validity of your concerns here, it just bothers me when estimates and speculation miraculously turn into fact.

[Jim Price]

I'm surprised that I really haven't run into open drug use more than I have in my years of covering the live music and bar scene. Once in a while I'll hear somebody mention that someone was doing a line of blow in the rest room, or hear somebody mention witnessing something in past tense, but I've never walked in on or actually saw somebody doing the stuff. I know it is likely around, and any drug problems in relation to the music scene concerns me.

I particularly worry about the young generation who has seen several recent rock idols claimed by drugs, such as Layne Stayley, Shannon Hoon, Brad Nowell, etc. We always hope that seeing pop icons bite the dust because of drugs serves as a warning about the consequences of such use, but many people still do not listen, and addiction and worse are the results.

Today's (Friday's) drug bust in the Altoona area is just another reminder of how bad it has become. But it's not just cities like Altoona any more, smaller towns from Lewistown to Tyrone to Northern Cambria to Bellwood all have had their drug busts and problems documented in the local press in recent years.

I feel fortunate that I have never had the desire to shoot up, snort up, pop pills or otherwise mess myself up, aside from the occasional drunken birthday celebration (and I have a designated driver when I do that)...nor have I been around many people in my life who are addicted to the heavy stuff. (I had a fraternity brother in my early 80's college days who got messed up daily; everybody back then pretty much laughed it off. I haven't heard a word about him since graduation.)

I'm continually amazed at how we hear the horror stories about people like Layne Stayley or Scott Weiland or Daryl Strawberry, and how drugs destroyed their lives and ruined their careers; yet so many people hear these stories and still decide to do the same crap. They probably think, "It'll never happen to me, I'm in control."

There was a local news story that sickened me a few years ago, when an Altoona woman went to Philadelphia, and died in a hotel room from an overdose, leaving behind two young children. I remember commenting in the Final Cut about it, how sick can you be to put your drug binging ahead of the welfare of your children?

Anyway, I could go on...It is important that we discuss this issue, as it affects all of us and our society as a whole. Through discussion, we all get a better perspective on the problem, and perhaps even learn some ways to deal with it when it affects someone close to us.

[April]

It's extremely difficult to help an addict, especially if they don't want to be helped. When someone is so deep into an addiction that they don't even care whether they live or die it's hard to make them see that life can be worth living. When you don't care about yourself it's difficult to give a shit about how your addiction may be screwing up the lives of those around you. It doesn't surprise me that mothers put their addiction before their kids or children steal from their parents to get a fix, because they are so wrapped up in their own problem that they don't have the mental energy to face up to what is happening to those around them because of their actions.
I've seen a healthy, happy person turn suicidal because the drugs they were using sucked the soul right out of them. Drugs like heroin and oxycontin (and others I'm sure but these are the two I've had experiences with) will alter your brain chemistry so that after a while your body stops producing chemicals like seratonin (the chemical that allows you to feel naturally happy). So basically if you stop taking the drug it is physically impossible for you to feel good until your body straightens itself out. no wonder it's so hard for people to pick themselves up out of addiction.

I've worked in several schools and it pisses me off the way that the schools will beat it into the kids heads that drugs are bad bad bad, but never actually explain to them the process of how and why people get addicted without planning to. The schools will make it seem that there are drug pushers out there trying to force them to do drugs against their will. most people I know have not been forced to do drugs by some dealer, they tried it because it looked like fun. In my opinion they should let kids know that yes, drugs will make you feel good. That they will see people who seem to be having a fantastic time on drugs and may want to try things themselves. That when they start doing them they will think it's fun, but it soon becomes not fun anymore when the only way they can function is if they have that drug. and that no one ever sets out to become a drug addict. It takes over slowly and changes you without you even realizing you are changing. Pretty soon you are in over your head and wondering how you got there.
I Guess it's not really politically correct to tell kids that drugs are "fun", and you don't want to give them a reason to try something that they may not have had any intention of going near until they HEARD it was fun. I just think the schools need to be a little more honest with kids about why people do drugs in the first place. I've seen kids be totally anti-drug until they tried it once and their attitude changed from "drugs are evil" to "hey, this is great. how can something that feels this good be bad??"

[byndrsn]

Good point Ron! I too found the number to be extreme but was amazed at all of the "evidence" that was showcased during that session, the stories from addicts, parents of addicts, etc.... I think what really hit me the hardest was hearing my sister tell of some of her friends addicted to heroin and such. Like JP, I've never run across anything much more than the occasional "Hippie Lettuce" shared among some friends. I feel pretty naive in thinking the "hard" stuff wasn't in this area... ya know?

I do think it's great to see so much concern on the topic though. Everyone on here is a role model to someone, like it or not, and we've got a fine group here for the younger folks to look up to. It's cool to see the stereotypical mold of the "rocker" isn't as sound as some would like us all to believe... at least on this forum!

Hats of to you too FatVin, not that you need it brutha, but I would've never guessed it man. Your story could give some hope to those who may have a loved one in a bad, bad situation.

You guys Rock!!

Dan

[bassist_25]

I've always said that cocaine is a "status" drug; doing coke is like driving a BMW, eating at a fancy restaurant, or wearing a Gucci dress. Herione is associated with junkies, marijuana is associated with the working class (it use to be immigrant factory workers), E with dancers/ravers, LSD/Shrooms with hippies, peyote with Native Americans, and coke has always been associated with yuppies and celebrities. I think the "glamour" aspect of coke is what draws people to it. I should be paying attention to things like this more since I'll probaly be a pysch major next year.

Sorry, bassist25, but you could not be more wrong. Drugs are drugs are drugs, and there is no "status" associated with coke. I have friends (regrettably) that do it, and most of them are on welfare. No beemers, restaraunts or Gucci. More like Old Milwaukee, a pack of Jacks, the want ads and a few lines. You can't associate drugs with classes, because drugs trancsend all class lines. If a junkie wants a fix bad enough, they'll get it, no matter what the class or social status. Maybe 20 years ago during the 70's, but not anymore.

Oops, I should have articulated what I meant; I wasn't saying that only certain types of people do certain types of drugs. It's just that certain drugs are stereotyped to certain types people. Coke was the big drug done by wealthy yuppies back in the 80's so it has recieved that image. I know that everyone who does coke is not upper-middle class, but it's the "image" that coke has. What I meant to say is I think that this image draws some people towards the drug. Like wise, just because someone does Ecstacy doesn't mean that they are an Ibeza crazed clubber who listens to the Chemical Brothers, but that is the culture associated with E.

I agree with you though, people from all walks of life do drugs.

edit: damn typos

[tonefight]

I agree with bassist 25 that coke was given a glamor imagine in the past but I also agree that that is not where it stayed and that all types of people do it, maybe because of the glamor image?

In my personal view I draw a strong line just after pot, I haven't had any in awhile (pot) because it didn't agree with me BUT I don't feel that its a really damaging drug. I really don't think its any worse than booze. Now anybody getting into needles or spoons is really messin with there own life. April has a real good point about how drugs are treated in the schools and with kids, there isn't much honesty there, as far as what they are told a cigarette and shooting up is the same thing, Just this is bad and thats bad, no reason why or explanation etc.

If you have younger kids I suggest a little explantion along with "its bad" As far as adults? If they know better and they go for it anyway than there isn't much you can do, it probably comes from other problems in their life and not giving a shit so that makes it tough to help. I'm glad that everyone has the right idea to stnd up here and express their feeling that it ISN"T COOL

[witchhunt]

When I want to "walk the edge", I consume mass quantities of the deadly mixture of malt, barley, and hops. Excuse me, I think I'll go have one now.

[tonefight]

I think you took me wrong there witchhunt, I drink myself and I think I actually had a little beer buzz gone when I posted. I wasn't putting down booze, I was comparing hooch to booze in an attempt to show my view on the whole drug thing. I guess what I was saying is that I've know people addicted to both booze and hooch and although I wouldn't suggest anybody try to get addicted I was trying to state that neither is quit as bad as some of the other addictions and drugs that are out there.

[tornandfrayed]

Moderation in all things I think is what the man said. It is hard to condemn people for their actions until you walk a mile ( or fall over ) in their shoes. But cocaine is bad! You take Sally and I'll take Sue, there ain't no difference between the two, Cocaine, running all round my brain!

[esa]

I myself had a bout of the DT's (another little thrill ride I don't reccomend, I can't eat calamari to this day) but that was nuthing compared to what I witnessed this guy going through behind heroin.




I don't want to sound drug naieve or anything.. but what is DT's?

[HurricaneBob]

Delirium Tremens, alchohol induced withdrawel.....

[witchhunt]

Hey tonefight, naw, my post had nothing to do with yours. Just goofin' around.

[FatVin]

To Esa, Bobby's right, the Delerium Tremens, is what happens to the body when you are trying to dry out of from abusing alcohol, I was so shaky I could re-do the velcro on my shoes. it's funny now, but it was no joke at the time. It's not someting I'd wish on anybody.

As to moderation, That's kind of what an addict is, someone who can't be moderate. Every once in a while at the end of the night, we'll be tearing down and I'll see that someone has left a half a glass of beer or something on a table, it always makes me smile. How can a person leave half a beer?

At an AA meeting one time somebody said, that if the pacific ocean was filled with Tequilla and I went down to the shore with a shot glass and dipped my glass in and drank it, I have to start worrying about how soon I'd run out.

That's the best definition of an addict I've ever heard.

[wake up drumming]

In my opinion there is a bit of an epidemic around here as of late. I've witnessed it firsthand. I've buried two friends in the last year who both died of a heroin o.d. It doesn't surprise me anymore, it's everywhere. It brings up the age old question of why musicians and drug addiction go hand and hand. Is it because it is readily available to those of us who perform, or is it that some musicians are tortured souls to begin with and use music to express their pain, but ultimately turn to drugs. Maybe both? I don't think the answer will ever be clear.

J.P. mentioned Layne Staley in his post. This guy was my "rock idol" so to speak. I was the biggest Alice fan without a doubt. His voice still sends chills down my spine and his lyrics were painfully honest. Anyway, I followed his story closely and it indeed is a sad one. Hard drugs ravaged his system terribly in the last years of his life. Abscesses covered his arms, his teeth fell out, his liver quit working and they say he lived on a diet of ensure because he could no longer digest normal food. When they found his body, he weighed 86 pounds!! Anyone who's thinking about trying heavy crap should read the book "Angry Chair". If that doesn't change your mind then you are a complete moron!

Horror stories like this are everywhere, and with many more to come. It's a rock n roll cliche. Anyone who knows me knows that I'm surely no angel and I don't pretend to be. We all have some skeletons in our closet but we have to all be careful and try to make wise decisions. Moderation is fine for some, but just don't work for others. What it boils down to is the choice of the individual. Be careful and Be SMART!