Violent Crime in America

Banned · Post by **Banned** » Monday May 29, 2006

Even though there are terrorists murdering all kinds of innocent people in Iraq right now, here are some statistics showing it is still safer than many American cities.

"Monday, May 29, 2006 1:22 p.m. EDT
Iraq Less Violent than Washington, D.C.

Despite media coverage purporting to show that escalating violence in Iraq has the country spiraling out of control, civilian death statistics complied by Rep. Steve King, R-IA, indicate that Iraq actually has a lower civilian violent death rate than Washington, D.C.

Appearing with Westwood One radio host Monica Crowley on Saturday, King said that the incessantly negative coverage of the Iraq war prompted him to research the actual death numbers.

"I began to ask myself the question, if you were a civilian in Iraq, how could you tolerate that level of violence," he said. "What really is the level of violence?"

Using Pentagon statistics cross-checked with independent research, King said he came up with an annualized Iraqi civilian death rate of 27.51 per 100,000.

While that number sounds high - astonishingly, the Iowa Republican discovered that it's significantly lower than a number of major American cities, including the nation's capital.

"It's 45 violent deaths per 100,000 in Washington, D.C.," King told Crowley.

Other American cities with higher violent civilian death rates than Iraq include:

Detroit - 41.8 per 100,000

Baltimore - 37.7 per 100,000

Atlanta - 34.9 per 100,000

St. Louis - 31.4 per 100,000
The American city with the highest civilian death rate was New Orleans before Katrina - with a staggering 53.1 deaths per 100,000 - almost twice the death rate in Iraq. "

HurricaneBob · Post by **HurricaneBob** » Monday May 29, 2006

Dearborn Heights representing!

DirtySanchez · Post by **DirtySanchez** » Tuesday May 30, 2006

Altoona would rank higher but people can't seem to hit a damn thing around here.

songsmith · Post by **songsmith** » Tuesday May 30, 2006

ROFL!!--->JMS

Post by **Ron** » Tuesday May 30, 2006

Apples and Oranges.

Banned · Post by **Banned** » Tuesday May 30, 2006

Ron wrote:Apples and Oranges.

I guess you are right.

Getting offed by El Queda terrorists = apples.

Getting offed by gang banger on crack = oranges.

I must have missed that equation in school.

Post by **Ron** » Tuesday May 30, 2006

No. They're comparing a city under military occupation with cities that aren't.

ToonaRockGuy · Post by **ToonaRockGuy** » Tuesday May 30, 2006

I miss non-political conversation on Rockpage.

RobTheDrummer · Post by **RobTheDrummer** » Tuesday May 30, 2006

Iraq had many more deaths when Saddam was in power...

Sorry Toona!

YankeeRose · Post by **YankeeRose** » Wednesday May 31, 2006

RobTheDrummer wrote:Iraq had many more deaths when Saddam was in power...
Sorry Toona!

That's what we've been told by our Government. I'm so happy that I was raised to think for myself and to never blindly believe everything I've been told by our Government.

We will never know the actual amount of Civilians killed in both Gulf Wars. We're certainly not being told the truth now. Sorry Rob! You know gung-ho one, you're not too old to enlist.

War is HELL...there are times I believe that many just don't grasp the reality...it's not a "virtual game".

I also appreciate Toona's sarcasm and I feel this thread was CRAP to begin with.

jangel · Post by **jangel** » Wednesday May 31, 2006

That's what we've been told by our Government. I'm so happy that I was raised to think for myself and to never blindly believe everything I've been told by our Government.

I didn't know the gov. did the news here. Your talking about the news media reporting all the mis info coming out of Irag. Most of the reporting is politically motivated by liberal news orgs. Can't grasp the fact that the election is over. I have talked to at least 10 soldiers and Marines that contradict what is being reported. And also to several parents who I have talked to also told the same story from hearing from their sons over there.
Oh I know now you'll be telling us that the Gov. "brainwashes" everyone that comes back.

RobTheDrummer · Post by **RobTheDrummer** » Wednesday May 31, 2006

YankeeRose wrote:
RobTheDrummer wrote:Iraq had many more deaths when Saddam was in power...
Sorry Toona!

That's what we've been told by our Government. I'm so happy that I was raised to think for myself and to never blindly believe everything I've been told by our Government.
We will never know the actual amount of Civilians killed in both Gulf Wars. We're certainly not being told the truth now. Sorry Rob! You know gung-ho one, you're not too old to enlist.
War is HELL...there are times I believe that many just don't grasp the reality...it's not a "virtual game".

I also appreciate Toona's sarcasm and I feel this thread was CRAP to begin with.

The following information is documented deaths under Saddam...far more than we could ever do.

Along with other human rights organizations, The Documental Centre for Human Rights in Iraq has compiled documentation on over 600,000 civilian executions in Iraq. Human Rights Watch reports that in one operation alone, the Anfal, Saddam killed 100,000 Kurdish Iraqis. Another 500,000 are estimated to have died in Saddam's needless war with Iran. Coldly taken as a daily average for the 24 years of Saddam's reign, these numbers give us a horrifying picture of between 70 and 125 civilian deaths per day for every one of Saddam's 8,000-odd days in power.

This excerpt was taken from this webpage. http://www.gbn.com/ArticleDisplayServle ... 0&msp=1242
It was written by an Iraq Historian with a Ph.D from Oxford. So it has credibility and it's not the US government.

Banned · Post by **Banned** » Wednesday May 31, 2006

YankeeRose wrote:
RobTheDrummer wrote:Iraq had many more deaths when Saddam was in power...
Sorry Toona!

That's what we've been told by our Government. I'm so happy that I was raised to think for myself and to never blindly believe everything I've been told by our Government.
We will never know the actual amount of Civilians killed in both Gulf Wars. We're certainly not being told the truth now. Sorry Rob! You know gung-ho one, you're not too old to enlist.
War is HELL...there are times I believe that many just don't grasp the reality...it's not a "virtual game".

I also appreciate Toona's sarcasm and I feel this thread was CRAP to begin with.

Can you show anybody ONE friggin iota of evidence that there has been more Iraqi civilians killed after Saddam was taken down, than from when he was in power???????

Did you ever see the tapes he made of torturing and killing his political prisoners? It was on some news shows a few years back, wonder why they do not show that anymore?

Oh wait, I forgot, we made some terrorists prisoners wear panties on their heads.......we torture too.

Banned · Post by **Banned** » Wednesday May 31, 2006

What puzzles me is how we're supposed to react to those crime statistics. From the tone of the original article and the responses in this thread, I guess the intended message was "don't believe the negative liberal media, we're doing a great job in Iraq."

That's fine and all, but think about it for a second. Whether those numbers are accurate or not, why should we be proud if it's safer to live in Iraq than in the USA? Shouldn't those troops be back here keeping Americans safe from violent crime? Is our government that inept at protecting us? Why should we be overseas protecting Iraqis? If regime change is so effective at lowering the crime rate, heck, why don't we overthrow our own government next?

I'm sure Rep. King meant well, but his message ultimately doesn't reflect well on the good ol' homefront.

And phooey on this statement from Oxford PhD dude:

Another 500,000 are estimated to have died in Saddam's needless war with Iran.

Statistics don't need judgmental adjectives like "needless". Nor do they need to identify it as "Saddam's" war. (If you don't think those are tainted statements, consider this one: "Bush's needless war with Iraq". That sounds biased to me.) Statistics + subjectivity = um, statectivity.

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Wednesday May 31, 2006

Jimi Hatt wrote:
That's fine and all, but think about it for a second. Whether those numbers are accurate or not, why should we be proud if it's safer to live in Iraq than in the USA? Shouldn't those troops be back here keeping Americans safe from violent crime? Is our government that inept at protecting us? Why should we be overseas protecting Iraqis? If regime change is so effective at lowering the crime rate, heck, why don't we overthrow our own government next?

That's a good point. I don't deny that Saddam was a bad dude to his own people, but these ends justifies the means arguments just don't convince me. Some people seem to forget the original reason for the war: To find WMDs. When those weren't found, the apologists tried to pass it off as a liberation campaign.

It's funny, the same people complaining about Mexicans coming to America for jobs say the reason for that is due to their corrupt government. Well, with that reasoning, why don't we invade Mexico?

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Wednesday May 31, 2006

bassist_25 wrote:It's funny, the same people complaining about Mexicans coming to America for jobs say the reason for that is due to their corrupt government. Well, with that reasoning, why don't we invade Mexico?

Why do we need reasoning? We should have finished the job back in 1850, but NOOOOOO we were all squishy and civil about it, just like in 1991. We should have been teaching them English in Mexico City more than 150 years ago so we wouldn't have this problem today. We'd all be better off for it, especially the Mexicans.

Sometimes being civil can come back to bite you in the ass.

Banned · Post by **Banned** » Wednesday May 31, 2006

J Hatt wrote:

" Shouldn't those troops be back here keeping Americans safe from violent crime? Is our government that inept at protecting us? Why should we be overseas protecting Iraqis? If regime change is so effective at lowering the crime rate, heck, why don't we overthrow our own government next? "

Good questions.

Our armed forces should never be used in the place of local police. It is forbidden in the Constitution. I know in some extreme emergencies the Nat. Guard has been called to help (like after Katrina when the home boys were shooting at the helicoptors rescuing people) but those are and should be rare.

Thomas Jefferson said we should overthrow our government every generation or so. I'd say we are over 10 generations late.

One thing that should be changed ASAP is term limits. That way the ones elected just might work for the good of the people and not just worry about getting re-elected.

Maybe that way we all would be better off and safer in our streets.

HurricaneBob · Post by **HurricaneBob** » Wednesday May 31, 2006

How about we shutdown Rockpages borders on political posts...you guys just dont know when to quit.

cruseaudio · Post by **cruseaudio** » Wednesday May 31, 2006

A president isn't a reporter, the reporters aren't politicians, and rockpagers aren't either one.

AMEN BOBBY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YankeeRose · Post by **YankeeRose** » Wednesday May 31, 2006

jangel wrote:I have talked to at least 10 soldiers and Marines that contradict what is being reported. And also to several parents who I have talked to also told the same story from hearing from their sons over there.

If you believe it's a "liberal" media..."I" am delusional??? This has absolutely nothing to do with the election, but twist away, I can take it! I read something in a post someone wrote recently about Fortune magazine and newspapers...just WHO do you think owns the friggin' media outlets? If you believe everything you hear and read - again, I'm not the one who is delusional!

I have talked to and personally know quite a few who have been in Iraq, Baghdad even. I have wonderful news...the Marine Infantryman, Tony, a friend of my son who he graduated with, was back in Minersville, in the Miner's Bar "doing shots" with my son Mark on Memorial Day - thank Heaven!!! The only thing that tempered the sheer JOY of learning he's stateside and returning to NC, was the quiet news that he was being sent back to Iraq in September.

He has a year to serve in his enlistment and he's counting the days - you know what? FORGET IT! I'm not saying anything else, for according to Jangel, Tony's not "normal" - like me

- and also, I see it clearly wouldn't matter.

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Wednesday May 31, 2006

The media is neither liberal nor conservative. It's all about sensationalism and what sells. How do I know? Well, why don't you ask me exactly why we hand out Snicker's bars at show. The answer may surprise you.

YankeeRose · Post by **YankeeRose** » Wednesday May 31, 2006

Okay Paul, why does BadDaze hand out bite size "Snickers" at shows?
...and when IS BadDaze' next show?

Gallowglass · Post by **Gallowglass** » Friday Jun 02, 2006

Just some observations:

We know most of the crime in Altoona is from out of towners, Central Pennsylvanians are born knowing how to shoot straight.

As far as the reporting of violent crime in America goes, I don't think the agenda is aimed at making it look like we are doing well in Iraq-It is part of a general trend that emphasizes sensationalism & makes the general citizen feel threatened. This makes the populace feel that they need an ever-expanding media and governmental beauracracy for their information, safety, and well-being. Look at network programming-how many shows are about innocent people being helplessly victimized? Look at the stupid color coded terror threat level alert system (haven't heard much from it lately, have you-wait till it gets closer to national election time). We are being slowly acclimated to the consciousness level of sheep-dependent on the big daddy shepard govt. to make sure we are O.K.

As far as the use of military personnel for law-enforcement goes, the Posse Commitatus statute specifically forbids it, for good reason. However, the government has found ways around it, for example-using Delta Force personnel as "advisors" at Waco and Ruby Ridge, while the ATF & FBI handled the "hands on" part of the massacre.

songsmith · Post by **songsmith** » Friday Jun 02, 2006

Excellent post. If it bleeds, it leads.-------->JMS

Colton · Post by **Colton** » Friday Jun 02, 2006

I say instead of spending all this cash on the shit we do, we just send them all cheap computers with counterstrike/TFC. They'll be too busy killing each other in game to care about politics and religion.

Lets hijack this and turn it into a video game thread!