Kenneth Lay found Guilty for ENRON collapse..

[AtoMikEnRtiA]

Just went down, have fun in minimum security prison, jackoff!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/enron_trial

[YankeeRose]

'Eh, I'll believe he's going to prison when I see it. Plus, he hasn't been sentenced, yet. With the vast amount of money he has, and wealth he has access to, he can appeal it until the day he dies.

[AtoMikEnRtiA]

eh i dunno if money can buy you out of being convicted for conspiracy..

we'll see...

[f.sciarrillo]

He won't be in very long. A couple of years and he will be out.

[RAM Z]

Money talks and bullshit walks it's the American Way !

[skipisode]

Didn't they freeze his assets? If not they should cut his balls off for ripping off so many people. He may have lots of $$$$, but it isn't his, it
is other peoples' $$$$. F' in prick!

[lonewolf]

Don't forget Skilling. He could face up to 170 years. Sentencing is set for 9/11/06. It should be considerably worse than what happened to the star witness for the prosecution:

"Andrew Fastow, Enron's former chief finance officer, pleaded guilty to his part in the scandal in 2004 having agreed to testify against his former bosses.

He paid fines totalling $23m and received a sentence of 10 years in jail."

Lets just hope their inevitable appeals are quick and painful.

[FatVin]

A few things to remember when thinking about Enron

* Bush personally joined the fight against imposing caps on the soaring price of electricity in California at a time when Enron was artificially driving up the price of electricity by manipulating supply. Bush's resistance to price caps bought Enron extra time to gouge hundreds of millions of dollars from California's consumers.

* Bush granted Lay broad influence over the development of the administration's energy policies, including the choice of key regulators to oversee Enron's businesses. The chairman of the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission was replaced in 2001 after he began to delve into Enron's complex derivative-financing schemes.

* Bush had his NSC staff organize that administration-wide task force to pressure India to accommodate Enron's interests in selling the Dabhol generating plant for as much as $2.3 billion.

[lonewolf]

Enron's influence extended in all directions, especially when you consider that:

1. Enron was named "America's Most Innovative Company" by Fortune magazine for six consecutive years, from 1996 to 2001. Who wouldn't take policy advice from the CEO of such a reputable energy company?

2. Both Clinton and Bush opposed regulation for the California energy crisis.

3. The peak of the California energy crisis occurred in Dec. 2000, on Clinton's watch.

4. Less than a year into his 1st term, the Bush Justice Department went after Enron with a criminal investigation, resulting in yesterday's convictions.

Here are some of the events leading up to Bush's Enron criminal investigation in January, 2002:

-------------------------

"Enron considered the trade trip so important that they also included a 22-page briefing paper addressed to Gov. Davis detailing the "Greek Wind Project Permitting Issue." Interestingly, the same briefing paper made its way into the U.S. commercial section of the American Embassy in Athens.

The 1999 documents are part of a long string of heavy lobbying efforts that the Clinton administration carried out to convince the Greeks to buy Enron wind products for Crete."

--------------------

"Byline: Patrice Hill, THE WASHINGTON TIMES

Top Clinton administration officials - including Treasury Secretary Lawrence E. Summers and Federal Energy Regulatory Commission Chairman James Hoecker - sided with Enron in opposing increased regulation of energy markets, including the critical question of capping electricity prices during California's power crisis last year.

Documents just released by the commission show that Enron executives met frequently and dined with Clinton-appointed commissioners and their staff when they were deciding on the price cap."

----------------------

"Scandal-plagued Enron Corp., cited by Democrats as a big giver to President Bush and the GOP, gave a cool $420,000 to Democrats when the corporation was desperate to get the Clinton administration's help in having the potentially disastrous Kyoto treaty made the law of the land.
Senate ratification of the treaty, which foes explained would have cost the U.S. billions and had a deadly effect on the U.S. economy, would have been a bonanza for Enron.

What's Good for Enron Isn't Good for America

According to Washington Times reporter Jerry Seper, a December 1997 private internal memo written by Enron executive John Palmisano said the treaty would be "good for Enron stock!!"

"The memo said the Kyoto treaty - later signed by Mr. Clinton and leaders of 166 other countries, but never ratified by the Senate - 'would do more to promote Enron's business than will almost any other regulatory initiative outside of restructuring the energy and natural gas industries in Europe and the United States.'"

Easy Access to Clinton and Gore

Writing in Wednesday's Times, Seper reports, "Federal and confidential corporate records show that after donating thousands of dollars in soft money and PAC donations beginning in 1995, Enron received easy access to President Clinton and Vice President Al Gore."

Seper revealed that Clinton's Energy Department and Environmental Protection Agency "often made themselves available for Enron executives to discuss the firm's needs, according to records, even arranging for meetings with key congressional staffers.""

There are many more stories from Enron's rise in the 90s that are far too numerous to print.

[FatVin]

Karl Rove trained you well

[lonewolf]

Karl Rove trained you well

Thanks, but I am more of a Dick Morris fan.

[songsmith]

Should a sitting president have ANY dealings with any major corporation? Presidential influence doesn't sound like capitalism, it sounds like graft and favor-peddling. It gives one American business priority over another, and American capitalism is supposed to be "an equal chance for everyone to build a business." Business and State should be just as seperate as Church and State... oops, we don't have that either, do we? ---->JMS

[DirtySanchez]

No, but the seperation of reality and state seems bigger than ever.

[skipisode]

What? Where am I? Who said that? Huh? Could you repeat that?

[YankeeRose]

The Kyoto Treaty would have been "good" for Enron stock?
REALLY? I doubt the Kyoto Treaty would have been good for ANY power company's stock, that's why it was never passed. Enron gave 420K to Democrats? How much did they give to Republicans, that's what I'd really like to know. "Kenny" Lay will be okay, don't worry. Money's more important in this Country than the Environment or anything else. That's why Dubya started un-doing years of progress in Conservation on his very first day in office - he could have Vetoed. When I consider all he's done to this Country and the world, IMO, at the very LEAST he should be tarred, feathered, Impeached and Imprisoned for his many crimes against Nature and Humanity.

[YankeeRose]

What? Where am I? Who said that? Huh? Could you repeat that?

LMAO

[lonewolf]

Should a sitting president have ANY dealings with any major corporation? Presidential influence doesn't sound like capitalism, it sounds like graft and favor-peddling. It gives one American business priority over another, and American capitalism is supposed to be "an equal chance for everyone to build a business." Business and State should be just as seperate as Church and State... oops, we don't have that either, do we? ---->JMS

You can't separate business from state. There wouldn't be enough people left that are qualified to run the business of government. Appointed posts are usually filled with people from business or universities. It is not unusual for an administration or congress to ask the advice of one or many business leaders on a subject of their expertise. Without expertise from business, government would take even worse decisions than they take now!

My favorite consulting group was back in 1993 when Hillary Clinton formed a group of 500 lawyers to advise her on a health care system.

[songsmith]

I disagree, but only to a point, and I acknowledge that it's a pipe dream. Public service is meant to be service to the greater good of the Union, not greater power and influence for one's own employer. I'm an avowed anti-corporate, and I feel huge corporations exercise more control over this country than the electorate. I think we've bailed out the airlines, carmakers, big oil, and Amtrak one too many times, based not on capitalism, but on personal and business connections to the leaders of those industries. That's not capitalism at all, it's government sponsorship of big business, and is leaning towards socialism. If a corporation's in trouble, screw 'em... they must have been doing something wrong, and according to true capitalism, someone will be along shortly to replace them, if there is a true need (supply and demand).
Government, however, should be in the business of serving US, not the richest of us. It should be like the military. If you want to make millions, go work for Big Business. If you want to serve your country, do that. Not both at the same time.----------->JMS

[lonewolf]

John, you are talking about corporate welfare. You are absolutely right about that. It needs eliminated. However, eliminating corporate welfare and not listening to the advice of corporations are mutually exclusive. They are a constituent with rights too, as well as a valued source of real world info. Real world problems rarely work with ivory tower solutions.

Rose, Enron was into wind and solar energy big time and stood to profit from any green treaty.

[DirtySanchez]

The problem is not democrat vs. republican red state/ blue state bullshit.
How many politicians regardless of party had to EARN a living?
Maybe a few who have now been career politicians so long that they've lost touch as well, but that's about it. That's also why I refuse to vote until someone who really comes from a blue collar hardworking background runs for office. No need to register anytime soon.

[f.sciarrillo]

No, but the seperation of reality and state seems bigger than ever.

So true, so true.

As far as corporate welfare; how did Wal-Mart get involved in this ??

[lonewolf]

The problem is not democrat vs. republican red state/ blue state bullshit.
How many politicians regardless of party had to EARN a living?
Maybe a few who have now been career politicians so long that they've lost touch as well, but that's about it. That's also why I refuse to vote until someone who really comes from a blue collar hardworking background runs for office. No need to register anytime soon.

Anyone who feels that way should read this:

http://www.devvy.com/taxbook-html_20010617.html

[bassist_25]

The problem is not democrat vs. republican red state/ blue state bullshit.
How many politicians regardless of party had to EARN a living?
Maybe a few who have now been career politicians so long that they've lost touch as well, but that's about it. That's also why I refuse to vote until someone who really comes from a blue collar hardworking background runs for office. No need to register anytime soon.

TESTIFY!!!!

[Banned]

Should a sitting president have ANY dealings with any major corporation? Presidential influence doesn't sound like capitalism, it sounds like graft and favor-peddling. It gives one American business priority over another, and American capitalism is supposed to be "an equal chance for everyone to build a business." Business and State should be just as seperate as Church and State... oops, we don't have that either, do we? ---->JMS

Johnny, can you tell me exactly just what American document has the statement "separation of church and state"?

Trick question. That statement does not exist in any official documents of this country. This country offers the right to practice any religion.

So you would take away the ability af any American president to meet with the leader of ANY company or corporation? There are 12,000 publically traded corporations in the country. So the president and all of his staff must not meet with anyone that helps run any of these 12,000 corporations? What about all of the privately owned businesses?

BTW of the 12,000 publically traded business, only 12 were actually convicted with fraud like Enron and Health South.

That ratio equates to about 1 in 999 (0.10%) of them breaking the law. I still would rather trust a corporation to run their business than trust this government to run this country.

[songsmith]

Tell that to Grandpap, who, at the advice of his financial genius bosses, invested heavily in a "sure thing," a company that flat-out lied to everyone who could possibly give them money for any reason. They created a power shortage in California that crippled small businesses, a shortage that simply did not exist... to artificially drive up the cost of electricity. Grandpap lost ALL his retirement because he worked there for a few decades, maybe $100K or more... hey how could he lose? I invested in the publicly traded company I worked for (before my job went to Mexico, then China), I was just lucky enough to get out early. Ol' Pap didn't. He was a good conservative, loyal and hardworking, and Enron stock made his retirement. Then Jeff Skilling threw a 2 million dollar party in Greece. F**k you, Grandpap. Eat dogfood, it's nutritious.
Rich pieces of shit and their sense of entitlement to throw the bone to whomever they can bone are just as responsible for the decay of the middle class in this country, maybe even more to blame than illegals. Exxon/Mobil's CEO just walked away with a 450 million dollar golden parachute. How many wetbacks could you buy with that?
Here's a grand experiment: Cancel all tax shelters. Make everyone pay the same percentage of their income as tax. See who complains first, me or Warren Buffett.

I'll get back to you on Seperation of Church and State. I need research.------->JMS