Bands are always doing fund raisers for someone, lets do one for the clubs that support you before you loose another one, because they are becoming harder to find. I don't mean the corner bars with a stool by the door I mean clubs with PA's and real elevated stages. Some of the bands that are drawing bigger crowds, and you know who you are should go to some of our local club owners and find out about the financial health of these clubs, by discuss it with the owners (Aldo's, City Limits, The Hitching Post, ECT.) A night for the house to cover some expenses and stay afloat longer every two or three month would go a long way to keeping these clubs open for you to get your music heard. Also while your at it bring a band or two that need some help in to open for you and get some exsposure !!!
Just a thought.
Good Idea !!!
Good Idea !!!
EYE ROCK FOR LEAH APRIL 30th AT 30 SOMETHING ...
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nightcrawler_steve
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RobTheDrummer
- Diamond Member
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- Location: Tiptonia, Pa
First of all, you need to find the club that needs it the most. I know for a fact that Aldo's was kickin ass when I left. Their weekdays were packin! The Dees is kickin ass too. Burgis is doing great too. City would need the most help, but there are a lot of people on here that don't care for Claud...
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cruseaudio
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- Location: central PA
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RobTheDrummer
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- Location: Tiptonia, Pa
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Killjingle
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Bad idea...
If I remember correctly, the bars that are struggling or are closed are or were owned by ppl who were "too busy" to answer the phone for lots of bands who wanted to play their clubs, when common knowledge is that they are/were "content with what they have/had."
Only in the end do they give other bands and the idea of helping each other out any thought.
To the "now and then" house bands these owners are/were your buds, lack of evolution on your part and theirs is what ultimately means/meant demise.
Off topic- I run a business and I understand how important the bottom line is, but I never not return a phone call or sell something a little less profitable to hopefully establish a new return client. I once helped a customer for literally 8 hours (warranty work), only to see them ultimately go somewhere else for that purchase (I was 5 dollars higher, trying to maintain a fair profit). Guess what... the second and third purchase this person made were off of me (even if I was a few dollars higher), in my belief because I went a little further than anyone else did the first go around. Maybe I did good, maybe I was lucky... but I dont think I will be in line to help out ppl who never did shit for me.
Furthermore, just so I am not being a hypocrite, we have allowed "crowd killers" to open for us and other bands and bars have allowed us to be "crowd killers." Thats how you find ultimately what works and what doesnt. A long time ago we played the role of "crowd killa" in then called Barnesboro opening for Felix and the Hurricanes. Guess what, we got 3 guaranteed shows with good pay out of it and always had great crowd response, even though we were a metal band opening for classic rock gods. (Felix tore it up that night)
Chad
If I remember correctly, the bars that are struggling or are closed are or were owned by ppl who were "too busy" to answer the phone for lots of bands who wanted to play their clubs, when common knowledge is that they are/were "content with what they have/had."
Only in the end do they give other bands and the idea of helping each other out any thought.
To the "now and then" house bands these owners are/were your buds, lack of evolution on your part and theirs is what ultimately means/meant demise.
Off topic- I run a business and I understand how important the bottom line is, but I never not return a phone call or sell something a little less profitable to hopefully establish a new return client. I once helped a customer for literally 8 hours (warranty work), only to see them ultimately go somewhere else for that purchase (I was 5 dollars higher, trying to maintain a fair profit). Guess what... the second and third purchase this person made were off of me (even if I was a few dollars higher), in my belief because I went a little further than anyone else did the first go around. Maybe I did good, maybe I was lucky... but I dont think I will be in line to help out ppl who never did shit for me.
Furthermore, just so I am not being a hypocrite, we have allowed "crowd killers" to open for us and other bands and bars have allowed us to be "crowd killers." Thats how you find ultimately what works and what doesnt. A long time ago we played the role of "crowd killa" in then called Barnesboro opening for Felix and the Hurricanes. Guess what, we got 3 guaranteed shows with good pay out of it and always had great crowd response, even though we were a metal band opening for classic rock gods. (Felix tore it up that night)
Chad
Everyone wants to go to heaven but noone wants to die
big john made a point.....I also have been in business for 14 yrs and am still kicking. And I also have been on the other side for 30 some yrs as a musician. Neither side is totally right. as I see it we need to work together. If we don't a few bars and a few bands will prosper. Personally I would rather listen to a bad band than a Dj. However so many bad bands are asking for top $ that they are killing themselves and the posibility of other (good Bands) playing. Let me say this that the day is very close that bands are going to be few and far between in local bars and clubs. this is not what I want to see. Ilove music alays have and always will. However I have to run my business as a business to keep afloat. The Dui laws and MADD have had a hand in killing the entertainment in Pa. The exodus of the young to find jobs elsewhere are killing the business. there isn't one positive to help the business that I can think of. Not in this area. We need to get together totry and fix it or nobody is going to prosper.
Where there is light, there is Hope!
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Victor Synn
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red wrote:Don't feel bad, I think the only bands that do get crowds there are the classic rock/80's rock bands.nightcrawler_steve wrote:Hmmm.....no replies?
If we had bigger draw in Altoona we'd help.
**shameless plug** Brugi's tonight this Friday - The Nightcrawlers
Don't hate...appreciate.
Hair Force One: We got your EN_ER_GY right here!
Visit: www.hf1rocks.com
Visit: www.hf1rocks.com
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ToonaRockGuy
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WORD.Victor Synn wrote:red wrote:Don't feel bad, I think the only bands that do get crowds there are the classic rock/80's rock bands.nightcrawler_steve wrote:Hmmm.....no replies?
If we had bigger draw in Altoona we'd help.
**shameless plug** Brugi's tonight this Friday - The Nightcrawlers
Don't hate...appreciate.
Dood...
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cruseaudio
- Gold Member
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- Location: central PA
sigh.............................. let it go. This bullshit of having all these clubs for (bands) to play is what killed it in the first place!
LET THESE CLUBS DIE!!!!!!
Jangle, listen to me please, I know you want to be helpful, but if YOU help these places then that is less of a profit for you. So why do it?
The fact that there is toooooo damn many holes in the wall where alcies can get a $1.00 beer is what is killing you! PERIOD!
We DON'T need to HELP anyone. We DO need to help ourselves!
If these clubs our going down I say it is retrobution for being an asshole for about the last 15 years or so. Even putting any annimosity aside, they NEED to go because this is America, and the last time I checked it was a kill or be killed FREE ENTERPRISE market.
I will tell you who I will help-
The club that can COMFORTABLY hold 2000 people, has a NICE INVITING atmosphere, Soundproofing, a real STAGE, CLEAN AIR, REAL power, and an owner who pays RATE. One who won't start his own downward spiral by letting a BAD band play there so he will save $200.00 sacrificing any GOOD reputation that the place has!!!
See that IS what the PUBLIC wants, you say you are listening, but you're not!!!
Yeah people that is how this all got started, some people jumping over dollars to pick up dimes!!!!
We have all cheezed up our shows, clubs, to squeese a couple of pennies for a long time now and now the public has finally had enough!!!
LET IT GO!
And seriously, about this BAD BAND business- I have never been afraid to give advice or critiques to bands. I think that is well known.
Some people think I am an asshole for it? Bad bands and the people who know better are the TRUE ASSHOLES, because they ultimately are the ones that are killing themselves, and giving the scene a bad rap. But you gotta feed that EGO don't ya?
If you guys wanna blame someone, answer me this first? Have you ever recorded yourself, your band playin? If you haven't, GO and do it.
If.. er, wait,... WHEN you hear the mistakes that you made, ask your self if I had to give even a nickle back for every bad note that band played, would we have made anything by the end of the night?
Now I am NOT saying that everyone needs to be perfect, GOD knows I am far from it. I am saying if we want things to improve, we better look a little more inward and fix some of those problems before we go blaming others.
It feels good to blame DUI's or MADD, but as far as I know the population still spends money on enertainment. They just haven't found too much local stuff worth spending their money on.
Advertisement- What does it say to you when the ENTERTAINMENT industry doesn't even utilize TV ADs? NONE! Radio spots? haven't heard an interesting one in years.
Atmosphere? When you keep letting that asshole in who starts fights almost every night, because he buys boose, how much are you going to loose when me and my friends get sick of it and spend our money elsewhere? Bands fault? PLEASE!
Bad notes? Are you seriously going to give everyone a nickle back everytime you screw up? Hell NO! SO......I need coffee
LET THESE CLUBS DIE!!!!!!
Jangle, listen to me please, I know you want to be helpful, but if YOU help these places then that is less of a profit for you. So why do it?
The fact that there is toooooo damn many holes in the wall where alcies can get a $1.00 beer is what is killing you! PERIOD!
We DON'T need to HELP anyone. We DO need to help ourselves!
If these clubs our going down I say it is retrobution for being an asshole for about the last 15 years or so. Even putting any annimosity aside, they NEED to go because this is America, and the last time I checked it was a kill or be killed FREE ENTERPRISE market.
I will tell you who I will help-
The club that can COMFORTABLY hold 2000 people, has a NICE INVITING atmosphere, Soundproofing, a real STAGE, CLEAN AIR, REAL power, and an owner who pays RATE. One who won't start his own downward spiral by letting a BAD band play there so he will save $200.00 sacrificing any GOOD reputation that the place has!!!
See that IS what the PUBLIC wants, you say you are listening, but you're not!!!
Yeah people that is how this all got started, some people jumping over dollars to pick up dimes!!!!
We have all cheezed up our shows, clubs, to squeese a couple of pennies for a long time now and now the public has finally had enough!!!
LET IT GO!
And seriously, about this BAD BAND business- I have never been afraid to give advice or critiques to bands. I think that is well known.
Some people think I am an asshole for it? Bad bands and the people who know better are the TRUE ASSHOLES, because they ultimately are the ones that are killing themselves, and giving the scene a bad rap. But you gotta feed that EGO don't ya?
If you guys wanna blame someone, answer me this first? Have you ever recorded yourself, your band playin? If you haven't, GO and do it.
If.. er, wait,... WHEN you hear the mistakes that you made, ask your self if I had to give even a nickle back for every bad note that band played, would we have made anything by the end of the night?
Now I am NOT saying that everyone needs to be perfect, GOD knows I am far from it. I am saying if we want things to improve, we better look a little more inward and fix some of those problems before we go blaming others.
It feels good to blame DUI's or MADD, but as far as I know the population still spends money on enertainment. They just haven't found too much local stuff worth spending their money on.
Advertisement- What does it say to you when the ENTERTAINMENT industry doesn't even utilize TV ADs? NONE! Radio spots? haven't heard an interesting one in years.
Atmosphere? When you keep letting that asshole in who starts fights almost every night, because he buys boose, how much are you going to loose when me and my friends get sick of it and spend our money elsewhere? Bands fault? PLEASE!
Bad notes? Are you seriously going to give everyone a nickle back everytime you screw up? Hell NO! SO......I need coffee
Doug, I'm getting tired of you busting bands because they don't meet your expectations. You seem to constantly come up with some philosophically code you live by.....even if it is totally wrong.
Like your belief that all these musicians are in it to feed their EGO. The only EGO being fed is yours when you work so hard to bring other musicians down. It must make you feel good to tell everyone what they're doing wrong.
I really doubt that even 1% are in it to feed their ego. Did you ever hear of FUN. That's right...........pure fun. Some of us will never recover the money we spend on equipment. Which means we play for less than nothing because we are in the red.
I know many musicians who are not good enough to meet your criteria.......but go out and have a blast. They can be ENTERTAINING and make so many technical mistakes they would owe the bar owner if they paid $.05 for every mistake.
Many musicians suck until they get plenty of experience, so they start out bad........and they need a place to get that experience. Peter C's was one place that gave nearly anyone a chance.
In a perfect world , bar owners would pay every band $2,500.00 and every band would be worth it. But............
Quit your ripping bands/people who suck but still enjoy playing for fun. If they suck that bad they will die off. But learn something on the way. That is why there are "former" musicians.
Your view of the scene is mostly wrong , so keep your negativity out of here.
If you know the answer . . ? Let me know when you open your 2000 seat club and your $3000.00 bands. Make a profit. Then I'll concede. If you're right, it should be easy. If you're wrong........
Bill w/MHO
Like your belief that all these musicians are in it to feed their EGO. The only EGO being fed is yours when you work so hard to bring other musicians down. It must make you feel good to tell everyone what they're doing wrong.
I really doubt that even 1% are in it to feed their ego. Did you ever hear of FUN. That's right...........pure fun. Some of us will never recover the money we spend on equipment. Which means we play for less than nothing because we are in the red.
I know many musicians who are not good enough to meet your criteria.......but go out and have a blast. They can be ENTERTAINING and make so many technical mistakes they would owe the bar owner if they paid $.05 for every mistake.
Many musicians suck until they get plenty of experience, so they start out bad........and they need a place to get that experience. Peter C's was one place that gave nearly anyone a chance.
In a perfect world , bar owners would pay every band $2,500.00 and every band would be worth it. But............
Quit your ripping bands/people who suck but still enjoy playing for fun. If they suck that bad they will die off. But learn something on the way. That is why there are "former" musicians.
Your view of the scene is mostly wrong , so keep your negativity out of here.
If you know the answer . . ? Let me know when you open your 2000 seat club and your $3000.00 bands. Make a profit. Then I'll concede. If you're right, it should be easy. If you're wrong........
Bill w/MHO
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cruseaudio
- Gold Member
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- Joined: Monday Sep 22, 2003
- Location: central PA
Bill, it isn't even like that. You guys say you want answers, but you don't. Period. If you play for fun why is everyone on here bitchin? If you play for fun, why not do it in your basement instead or for free. And they aren't even the people I am talking about.
What band did I pick on? Nobody here is in a bad band
When did I say ALL these musicians were in it to feed thier ego? Nobody here HAS an ego
If my view of the scene is mostly wrong why is it dead? Well you get the point.
Is this becuase I quit the band or what? You seem to take it personal?
Sorry if you take what I say the way you do, and anyone else too. But everyone else who knows me, knows I critique myself more than anyone. That is just my opinion after 15 plus years, I don't like it but I have to be honest with it.
Guys who are good have fun to Bill. There are bands out there who are good and bringing in some bucks because they figured it out.
Man I need kicked off here! Can I get a second on that motion? Later kids
What band did I pick on? Nobody here is in a bad band
When did I say ALL these musicians were in it to feed thier ego? Nobody here HAS an ego
If my view of the scene is mostly wrong why is it dead? Well you get the point.
Is this becuase I quit the band or what? You seem to take it personal?
Sorry if you take what I say the way you do, and anyone else too. But everyone else who knows me, knows I critique myself more than anyone. That is just my opinion after 15 plus years, I don't like it but I have to be honest with it.
Guys who are good have fun to Bill. There are bands out there who are good and bringing in some bucks because they figured it out.
Man I need kicked off here! Can I get a second on that motion? Later kids
Doug, I don't take anything you say personally. You should know me well enough that at my age, I don't much care what anyone thinks of my playing. You just seem to have this thing which has run in a couple of threads, That you have "no respect" for musicians who hurt the area because they are bad. And you have no respect for anyone who is in it to feed their "ego". Who are these people ?
Don't take it personally. I'm just pointing out to you that you are wrong .
Hell no.......you know I enjoy your company. We could easily enjoy an evening soaking up a few brews, and solving the world's problems. And we could easily agree to disagree. In fact, if you're not doing anything tonight, I'm going out to hear a band, Cool if you're free......come along.
I just take isue when you're so negative , finding fault.
I admire people who do something , like Get Closer To The Music, and the gang trying to take on the PLCB.
You must be preaching to the choir if no one on R.P. ..............makes mistakes.
BTW I'm serious, give me a call if you want to see a good 3 peice band tonight.
Don't take it personally. I'm just pointing out to you that you are wrong .
Hell no.......you know I enjoy your company. We could easily enjoy an evening soaking up a few brews, and solving the world's problems. And we could easily agree to disagree. In fact, if you're not doing anything tonight, I'm going out to hear a band, Cool if you're free......come along.
I just take isue when you're so negative , finding fault.
I admire people who do something , like Get Closer To The Music, and the gang trying to take on the PLCB.
You must be preaching to the choir if no one on R.P. ..............makes mistakes.
BTW I'm serious, give me a call if you want to see a good 3 peice band tonight.
Doug....I know what your saying....I used the word club not referring to the large dance clubs....I'm old school in referencing clubs as bars, taverns etc not thinking on size. Most of us started playing in those small bars/taverns clubs (VFW's etc). So on my perspective I was lumping in into one venue.
However these (lets call them giants ) dance clubs are usually run or should I say owned by people that have a ton of cash. so I am not looking out for the giants....its the smaller venues that young musicians start out in and work their way up that I am talking about.
However these (lets call them giants ) dance clubs are usually run or should I say owned by people that have a ton of cash. so I am not looking out for the giants....its the smaller venues that young musicians start out in and work their way up that I am talking about.
Where there is light, there is Hope!
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bassist_25
- Senior Member
- Posts: 6815
- Joined: Monday Dec 09, 2002
- Location: Indiana
Wow, these threads are getting crazified.
I have a ton of fun up on stage, but make no mistake...it's also a ton of work.
I make technical mistakes up on stage. If you play once a week for three hours, it's going to happen.
I think all that Doug's trying to say is that when you are booked at a club - whose purpose is to make money - it's not amatuer hour. You're expected to play well and sound good. As an audience member, I won't sit for three hours if a singer can't stay in key. I can enjoy just about any style of music from country to heavy metal, but I've walked out of clubs where the band playing was a technical train wreck. I'll say it once again: People don't give the audience enough credit.
Now let's all take that Rockpage trip to the hookah lounge that I've been talking about.
I have a ton of fun up on stage, but make no mistake...it's also a ton of work.
I make technical mistakes up on stage. If you play once a week for three hours, it's going to happen.
I think all that Doug's trying to say is that when you are booked at a club - whose purpose is to make money - it's not amatuer hour. You're expected to play well and sound good. As an audience member, I won't sit for three hours if a singer can't stay in key. I can enjoy just about any style of music from country to heavy metal, but I've walked out of clubs where the band playing was a technical train wreck. I'll say it once again: People don't give the audience enough credit.
Now let's all take that Rockpage trip to the hookah lounge that I've been talking about.
"He's the electric horseman, you better back off!" - old sKool making a reference to the culturally relevant 1979 film.
If you play for the fun of it and your any good at all the money will come !!! But if you have no place to play, then what ?
I drove by the 4D's last night and it looked like it was packed to the gills for vs. the earth. what do these guys no that the rest of us don't !!!
I drove by the 4D's last night and it looked like it was packed to the gills for vs. the earth. what do these guys no that the rest of us don't !!!
EYE ROCK FOR LEAH APRIL 30th AT 30 SOMETHING ...
Heck, I'd allow a good band to volunteer efforts to help our bottom line. We basically have ended the thoughts of expanding our facility to accommondate the good bands because we can't afford to take the risk to have any band come in at this time. We have a huge room....bands all have said they enjoyed playing there...but as of right now, only one band draws a crowd enough to cover for their playing price plus our expenses. There are owners out there like us who would love to be able to afford to put in our own sound system...I would love to build a stage....That would be awesome. But we can't yet. And its also been proven that we really don't need to have that for a band to draw a crowd. But I'm not blaming the bands....for the most part, all of the ones that we've had are good bands. Fun to have. The crowd just doesn't come in and stay long enough to pay for them.