Educated guess 15 years of experience
If running a bar is so easy and profitable then why are they all closing !!! CROWBAR: est. a month
insurance $700.00
electricity $650.00
heat $500.00
employee $16,000.00 at 10 at 40hrs.
rent $3,500.00
repairs $200.00
Total = $21,550.00 again just a guess
thats $5400.00 a week before you buy a beer for the cooler or a jagermeister for the shelf to sell. These cost do not go down if no one shows up to here a band they are fixed upfront costs to the club.
Someone said they could not afford to do door deals well if you bring a crowd and you play for the the door everyone gets paid if no one shows up you don't get paid the club owner still owes someone that $5400.00 a week.
CROWBAR my guess !!!
CROWBAR my guess !!!
EYE ROCK FOR LEAH APRIL 30th AT 30 SOMETHING ...
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bassist_25
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Re: CROWBAR my guess !!!
Yeah, but I still owe someone money too if I bring a soundman. I'm not taking a $300 risk. We usually almost always have a crowd, but we played at Westmont Gardens a few times and bombed. They paid us the amount agreed upon, and we realized things weren't working out, so we shook hands and quit booking there.BigJohn wrote:Someone said they could not afford to do door deals well if you bring a crowd and you play for the the door everyone gets paid if no one shows up you don't get paid the club owner still owes someone that $5400.00 a week.
If there's quality in-house sound or if the place is small enough for a the band's own private vocal PA and amps, then I don't have a problem booking for the door (though those clubs are still going to get second consideration after the ones willing to pay a flat rate).
I also don't like getting paid from the door because I have had owners skim on me, and let people in for free.
"He's the electric horseman, you better back off!" - old sKool making a reference to the culturally relevant 1979 film.
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bassist_25
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Yes, and I always knew that it was a trusted person handling my money when I played at Peter C's (which was back in the day for me *LOL*). Unfortunatley, some clubs have their own door person.BigJohn wrote:I always paid my bands $100.00 plus the door and ask them to bring a person to collect thier money so I didn't have to touch it !!!
We were playing at this club and they would always tell us what they made at the door, which was a pretty impressive amount. For some reason, they thought that they'd try and pay us from the door one night. Funny thing is that they tried to hand us $200 less than what they were supposably making at the door (even though it was our biggest crowd there to date). Rob demanded we get paid our originally agreed upon amount.
We don't play at that club anymore.
"He's the electric horseman, you better back off!" - old sKool making a reference to the culturally relevant 1979 film.
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bassist_25
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Well, I was 19 when I played Peter C's. Now that I'm 23, I can say "Back in the day". *LOL*tonefight wrote:Paul, you're to young to use the term " back in the day "bassist_25 wrote:Yes, and I always knew that it was a trusted person handling my money when I played at Peter C's (which was back in the day for me *LOL*). .
"He's the electric horseman, you better back off!" - old sKool making a reference to the culturally relevant 1979 film.
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Atomic Jim
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This is an interesting discussion that I've had with some of my musician friends, some of whom feel that the club owner should pay from the door and not a risk, and some of whom feel that the band should not take a risk.
For the most part, I fall into the latter category. Consider this: When I leave for the gig, I've alread invested four to eight hours of rehearsal time (just that week) that I will never be paid for. If my gig is in Altoona or Johnstown, I have an hour drive, two hours of setup time, three hours of performance, and at least an hour to tear down and carryout, and another hour to drive home. That's 8 hours, plus at least four hours rehearsal time with the band, and probably 4 more hours of indiviual practice time. I have the expense of promo material plus the time it takes to make or post it on the web, the cost of our website.
Since our band is al family members we have combined invest ment of 6 to 8 thousand dollars in equipment, plus transportatin and the cost of gas.
So, even if we walk out with $300 in our pocket for the three of us, that amounts to $12.50/hour less expenses. If you factor in rehearsal time and promo time it comes down to about $6 per hour.
Back in the day, being the late 70's, early 80's we used to walk out of clubs with $800-$1,000 in our pockets and ther were venues galore. We we were on the road for a couple of years, were were making anywhere from $900-$1,200/week, plus rooms and sometimes meals, and didn't have to move for at least 2 weeks at a time, sometimes a month. This was back in 1977 and 78 when gas was .50 a gallon and I was too dumb not to eat at McDonalds every day.
Ironically, all the venues we played on the road, mostly Holiday Inns in PA, NY and Ohio, are gone. It would literally be impossible to do that today. I have no idea how musicians can make a living at that level now.
Anyway, it's some food for thought and I will be interested to read your comment. If anyone is making a full-time living at music either regionally or locally I'd like to hear how your doing it.
Disclaimer: If you happen to work for the IRS, the above post, especially the part about how much money I made, is one big overblown pack of lies, and if I were you I wouldn't believe a word the writer said if he swore on a stack of Bibles.
For the most part, I fall into the latter category. Consider this: When I leave for the gig, I've alread invested four to eight hours of rehearsal time (just that week) that I will never be paid for. If my gig is in Altoona or Johnstown, I have an hour drive, two hours of setup time, three hours of performance, and at least an hour to tear down and carryout, and another hour to drive home. That's 8 hours, plus at least four hours rehearsal time with the band, and probably 4 more hours of indiviual practice time. I have the expense of promo material plus the time it takes to make or post it on the web, the cost of our website.
Since our band is al family members we have combined invest ment of 6 to 8 thousand dollars in equipment, plus transportatin and the cost of gas.
So, even if we walk out with $300 in our pocket for the three of us, that amounts to $12.50/hour less expenses. If you factor in rehearsal time and promo time it comes down to about $6 per hour.
Back in the day, being the late 70's, early 80's we used to walk out of clubs with $800-$1,000 in our pockets and ther were venues galore. We we were on the road for a couple of years, were were making anywhere from $900-$1,200/week, plus rooms and sometimes meals, and didn't have to move for at least 2 weeks at a time, sometimes a month. This was back in 1977 and 78 when gas was .50 a gallon and I was too dumb not to eat at McDonalds every day.
Ironically, all the venues we played on the road, mostly Holiday Inns in PA, NY and Ohio, are gone. It would literally be impossible to do that today. I have no idea how musicians can make a living at that level now.
Anyway, it's some food for thought and I will be interested to read your comment. If anyone is making a full-time living at music either regionally or locally I'd like to hear how your doing it.
Disclaimer: If you happen to work for the IRS, the above post, especially the part about how much money I made, is one big overblown pack of lies, and if I were you I wouldn't believe a word the writer said if he swore on a stack of Bibles.
Not only do musicians have many hours of work involved in rehearsing, booking, preparing for a gig, traveling, and performing a gig but also all the expenses involved in equipment, promotion, travel, taxes, insurance, wear and tear, etc. A band is a business, whether collectively or individually and we have to spend money to make money.
I once asked a club owner if he would do what I do for minimum wage and he said no. I told him that is what I was making to play at his club.
Would a club owner ask his employees to work and their pay would be based on how many people came through the door for the night? Asking bands to pay to use an in house PA and lights is like asking the bartender to pay to use the cash register and pay for water to wash the glasses.
Would a club owner call somebody to work and provide a service such as a plumber, carpenter, etc. and tell them they will pay them what he feels like from what he makes for the day to get the service provided?
How many times have you heard this line? Since you never played here before, can you “cut me a break” and play for ½ of what your price is or play for the cover charge?
How would a club or restaurant owner feel if we went to a new place and said “since I have never eaten here or drank here before, I will either pay you ½ of the prices you have on your menu or I will decide what I want to pay you after I ate or drank and decided if I liked it or not”?
Most of the bands in this area are not over priced because we are all making less than we were in the late 1970’s and early 1980’s.
Let’s face it. Club owners and musicians are all in business to make money for the work we do. The bands in this area are just asking for a fair, guaranteed wage (even if it is much lower than other areas of the country). I also know that almost every band has “taken a cut” to help out a club owner when there was a slow night. Usually, that same club owner will never book the band again or cancel future gigs. These same club owners do not pay the same bands extra money when they have a great night.
Yes, the club owners have numerous expenses and I can appreciate that fact. I would not want to own a club with all the hassles involved. I understand that the average number of years a person owns a bar in Pennsylvania is 5 years. That is not very long. That average takes into account all the corner bars that have been around for decades, which means that many of the bars that open don’t even make it to 5 years.
I once asked a club owner if he would do what I do for minimum wage and he said no. I told him that is what I was making to play at his club.
Would a club owner ask his employees to work and their pay would be based on how many people came through the door for the night? Asking bands to pay to use an in house PA and lights is like asking the bartender to pay to use the cash register and pay for water to wash the glasses.
Would a club owner call somebody to work and provide a service such as a plumber, carpenter, etc. and tell them they will pay them what he feels like from what he makes for the day to get the service provided?
How many times have you heard this line? Since you never played here before, can you “cut me a break” and play for ½ of what your price is or play for the cover charge?
How would a club or restaurant owner feel if we went to a new place and said “since I have never eaten here or drank here before, I will either pay you ½ of the prices you have on your menu or I will decide what I want to pay you after I ate or drank and decided if I liked it or not”?
Most of the bands in this area are not over priced because we are all making less than we were in the late 1970’s and early 1980’s.
Let’s face it. Club owners and musicians are all in business to make money for the work we do. The bands in this area are just asking for a fair, guaranteed wage (even if it is much lower than other areas of the country). I also know that almost every band has “taken a cut” to help out a club owner when there was a slow night. Usually, that same club owner will never book the band again or cancel future gigs. These same club owners do not pay the same bands extra money when they have a great night.
Yes, the club owners have numerous expenses and I can appreciate that fact. I would not want to own a club with all the hassles involved. I understand that the average number of years a person owns a bar in Pennsylvania is 5 years. That is not very long. That average takes into account all the corner bars that have been around for decades, which means that many of the bars that open don’t even make it to 5 years.
I lasted 15yrs. and I have no clue how Claudio and Aldo are still at it. One thing you forget is that almost all of you have a second job and your investment in equipment even if it is a couple of thousand dollars is minimal when you compare it to the cost of a night club a $200,000.00 and up, way up.
EYE ROCK FOR LEAH APRIL 30th AT 30 SOMETHING ...
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RobTheDrummer
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HurricaneBob
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Most bar owners dont give a shit how much time, money we have invested. They just want a good crowd, and when they get one thats their profit. If your only drawing half of a said clubs occupancy your not making the bar money. That s band life, the ones who pack the places are making the big bucks. Dont worry, we are not people magnets, the Canes have had alot of trouble getting crowds week to week.
Big John is the only bar owner that made it count when we had a good night, for every Thursday we played when it was good he made it worth our while.
Miss bar owners like him....
Big John is the only bar owner that made it count when we had a good night, for every Thursday we played when it was good he made it worth our while.
Miss bar owners like him....
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RobTheDrummer
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Atomic Jim
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First of all, props to Moxam 123 . You really summed it up well. Just for the record, I added up just the cost of the equipment I take to every gig. It came to $14,000 and we are only a three piece band that dosen't use a drummer. Our PA is small but very good. I can only imagine how much bigger bands have invested.
On top of that , We keep around $6,000 in spare equipment and duplicates for our practice room. Oh yeah, I forgot the cost of our practice room, at least $3000 to remodel a room in our basement, and that's all we use it for. Their are CD Players, Ipods and dozens of other things. Since it is my wife, daughter and I who play, my wife and I pay for all the equipment.
So it's more than just a coupleof thousand dollars we have invested. That wouldn't even cover the cost of my Amp and one guitar. If I had to buy my equipment our of band money I would be usine a fender squire strat and a little fender solid state amp. Most businesses eventually turn a profit, except being in a band on a local or regional level. As long as we strive to have the best equipment we can afford, so that we have a quality sound when we are in a club, we will never even break even.
My wife and I are lucky that we have very good jobs, becuase that is how we pay for our equipment, not from the money we make from playing out. That fills the gas tank, buys some hot dogs at Sheetz and gives us a little pocket money.
Ironically, from 1981 through 1991, we were able to earn at least half of our living from the band, buy some equipment and pay some bills, mostly from band money.
Okay, I'm done gripping now and I still love to play out, even if I lose money.
On top of that , We keep around $6,000 in spare equipment and duplicates for our practice room. Oh yeah, I forgot the cost of our practice room, at least $3000 to remodel a room in our basement, and that's all we use it for. Their are CD Players, Ipods and dozens of other things. Since it is my wife, daughter and I who play, my wife and I pay for all the equipment.
So it's more than just a coupleof thousand dollars we have invested. That wouldn't even cover the cost of my Amp and one guitar. If I had to buy my equipment our of band money I would be usine a fender squire strat and a little fender solid state amp. Most businesses eventually turn a profit, except being in a band on a local or regional level. As long as we strive to have the best equipment we can afford, so that we have a quality sound when we are in a club, we will never even break even.
My wife and I are lucky that we have very good jobs, becuase that is how we pay for our equipment, not from the money we make from playing out. That fills the gas tank, buys some hot dogs at Sheetz and gives us a little pocket money.
Ironically, from 1981 through 1991, we were able to earn at least half of our living from the band, buy some equipment and pay some bills, mostly from band money.
Okay, I'm done gripping now and I still love to play out, even if I lose money.
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tornandfrayed
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sorry
Sorry again but it is not the 70's nor the 80's. It is however 2006 and people are not going out to clubs to see live bands. So if you are doing this for money you should probably go somewhere else that has a better nitelife. If you charge a set amount and don't draw people then you won't get booked, if you don't get booked you obviously make less then your set amount. If you take the door then the bar won't loose money and drive themselves out of business. If the bars go out of business then you don't get your set amount.
I guess the question here is why are people not going out to see bands anymore?
Is it really the DUI situation? Do people have to get drunk to enjoy live music? I don't think so, maybe someone should try something different as a band to see if that makes a difference. Although I don't think much will make a difference around here, I mean you guys are the music scene.
Hate to restate the obvious but JP hit the nail on the head.
I guess the question here is why are people not going out to see bands anymore?
Is it really the DUI situation? Do people have to get drunk to enjoy live music? I don't think so, maybe someone should try something different as a band to see if that makes a difference. Although I don't think much will make a difference around here, I mean you guys are the music scene.
Hate to restate the obvious but JP hit the nail on the head.
Torn & Frayed
One World, One Voice, One God!
Music is LIFE!
One World, One Voice, One God!
Music is LIFE!
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Killjingle
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the other day I ran sound for Pelt and my band Killjingle at Westmont Gardens. A state liquor store is one door away.
I got there way too early, and I didnt want to go in quite yet. I drove over to Burger King grabbed a meal and drove back to the Gardens (prob 400 ft away). I turned on my car stereo and ate my meal while observing ppl walking into the liquor store. The amt of ppl that walked into that place in 1 hour would have been enough to fill the dance floor and then some. And I guarantee Pelt could have played to and entertained the ppl walking in and out... all diff walks of life. It made me wonder why these ppl choose home or a small party over "goin out"
There was a HUGE disparity! I aint gonna lie and say KJ could have rocked these ppl out, but Pelt def has the chops and the tunes...
Maybe live music will eventually fade away like CD sales? It was very strange for me to see. Obviously ppl still like to drink...
I got there way too early, and I didnt want to go in quite yet. I drove over to Burger King grabbed a meal and drove back to the Gardens (prob 400 ft away). I turned on my car stereo and ate my meal while observing ppl walking into the liquor store. The amt of ppl that walked into that place in 1 hour would have been enough to fill the dance floor and then some. And I guarantee Pelt could have played to and entertained the ppl walking in and out... all diff walks of life. It made me wonder why these ppl choose home or a small party over "goin out"
There was a HUGE disparity! I aint gonna lie and say KJ could have rocked these ppl out, but Pelt def has the chops and the tunes...
Maybe live music will eventually fade away like CD sales? It was very strange for me to see. Obviously ppl still like to drink...
Everyone wants to go to heaven but noone wants to die
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RobTheDrummer
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Hey Rob, hope all's well in warmer lands than ours! As to the solution, I haven't a clue....except this. What if local bars established a charter, a member list, and a dues paying system? There would never be a cover (that would be covered by the yearly or monthly payment). To cut this short, why don't we ever hear of VFW's and other private clubs getting busted?
So many of the posts here make it sound like its the owners of the bars versus the bands. But its not. Us bar owners want to pay the bands. Heck, I would love to have live bands in twice a week and pay them what we feel they are really worth. We know the time and the expenses. But we can't do it because of the people that don't come out any more to hear the live music. Whenever we get a band in at a set price and we see that we have a great crowd, we do what we can to make the band know that we appreciate it...we feed them, give them drinks, etc.
As a bar owner, we do what we can afford to do to get the crowd in to hear the bands. We advertise where our customers say they look for information, we've created a web site for them to see upcoming events, we have our beer companies make signs etc. We keep our prices reasonable. We provide a clean friendly place. We always have give aways.
What its come down to for us is we don't have live bands anymore. Only on special rare occassions.
For example....Kyx always brings us a huge crowd. We love having them. The first time they played for our new ownership...they were kind...lower the price without us asking...we made some money and honestly, it helped our bottom line...we in turned gave them gift certificates to come eat at a later time. We rebook them when we can. I go out of my way to help make their event a huge success. I put a lot of time and effort into it. They are playing on June 17th....I'm making it a beach party. Miller lite will sponsor it with prizes and such. Bikini and beach stud contests. Kyx is loving it...I'm willing to put the extra work into this event because they have shown that they understand our bottom line. But also because the customers will come in for it.
But I imagine the area has a lot to do with it....and we are understanding this more as we go along. Bands do not do well in Houtzdale. We have competition and if we keep competing, we both loose. There is just too many private parties for everyone to have live bands going on. I can book a band and want to pay them anywhere from $200-$700 for the night. Its not until that night that we learn that there is a huge camp party with over 1000 people. I can't afford the risk. We have 52 weekends a year. Pay for the band and the advertising expenses, the extra labor involved, and have no one show up. How many of those weekends can a business handle?
Its not the bar owners. Its not the bands. Both sides are putting out a lot of money and working hard to make the live entertainment business work. Its the wants of the customers.
When I was younger, I (and about 50 other crazy fans) would travel 50 miles to hear Hybrid Ice....I would drink early in the night and allow time to switch to soda and be able to drive home safely. It was all worth it. Heck, I always paid my $5 cover charge...We just don't see this happening any more.
Another thing I don't get about the customers....We have a live band....we get two customers at the beginning of the night that pop their heads in...see that there are only 5 people in the bar....they leave. Trying to find the crowd. 5 minutes later, 5 people do the same thing. Another 10 minutes, 3 more....it goes like this all night long. If the original 2 would stay the next five would stay....then the next 3....and next thing you know, the crowd would be there...but they don't. How silly is that?
As a bar owner, we do what we can afford to do to get the crowd in to hear the bands. We advertise where our customers say they look for information, we've created a web site for them to see upcoming events, we have our beer companies make signs etc. We keep our prices reasonable. We provide a clean friendly place. We always have give aways.
What its come down to for us is we don't have live bands anymore. Only on special rare occassions.
For example....Kyx always brings us a huge crowd. We love having them. The first time they played for our new ownership...they were kind...lower the price without us asking...we made some money and honestly, it helped our bottom line...we in turned gave them gift certificates to come eat at a later time. We rebook them when we can. I go out of my way to help make their event a huge success. I put a lot of time and effort into it. They are playing on June 17th....I'm making it a beach party. Miller lite will sponsor it with prizes and such. Bikini and beach stud contests. Kyx is loving it...I'm willing to put the extra work into this event because they have shown that they understand our bottom line. But also because the customers will come in for it.
But I imagine the area has a lot to do with it....and we are understanding this more as we go along. Bands do not do well in Houtzdale. We have competition and if we keep competing, we both loose. There is just too many private parties for everyone to have live bands going on. I can book a band and want to pay them anywhere from $200-$700 for the night. Its not until that night that we learn that there is a huge camp party with over 1000 people. I can't afford the risk. We have 52 weekends a year. Pay for the band and the advertising expenses, the extra labor involved, and have no one show up. How many of those weekends can a business handle?
Its not the bar owners. Its not the bands. Both sides are putting out a lot of money and working hard to make the live entertainment business work. Its the wants of the customers.
When I was younger, I (and about 50 other crazy fans) would travel 50 miles to hear Hybrid Ice....I would drink early in the night and allow time to switch to soda and be able to drive home safely. It was all worth it. Heck, I always paid my $5 cover charge...We just don't see this happening any more.
Another thing I don't get about the customers....We have a live band....we get two customers at the beginning of the night that pop their heads in...see that there are only 5 people in the bar....they leave. Trying to find the crowd. 5 minutes later, 5 people do the same thing. Another 10 minutes, 3 more....it goes like this all night long. If the original 2 would stay the next five would stay....then the next 3....and next thing you know, the crowd would be there...but they don't. How silly is that?
The problem of getting people out to support live music is a complex one, and I think there are a lot of factors involved, many already addressed. A few thoughts I have:
With rising gas prices and other expenses that the average person has to deal with any more, I think more and more people are choosing one night to go out on the weekend - it's all they can afford. I'm noticing more and more in the Altoona area that if a huge-drawing band is in town during a given weekend, it's generally slow for everyone else not just on that night, but slower for the whole weekend as well. Case in point this past weekend: Vs. the Earth was in town Saturday night at the 4D's, and had a packed house (as established on another thread). Backstreet Law was at Pellegrine's on Sunday, and didn't draw as well as they usually do. I think both bands have a lot of common fans (same age group, etc.), and many of their entertainment budgets for the weekend were spent by the end of Saturday night. Money is tighter, and people are choosing what show they want to see on a given weekend.
Also in Altoona, the news headlines are keeping some people at home. That's been a trend ever since the UVA shooting last year, and the frequent recent headlines of drive-by's, shootings, drug busts, etc. are likely keeping some people home at nights. Every time one of those incidents happens and gets widely reported, it's likely hurting attendance.
On another regional music message board I visit, somebody gave another explanation that I've noticed myself: fan bases and crowds change with time. If you've been involved in the scene for over five years, it's likely that the same fans and clientelle you saw five years ago are different from the fans and clientelle you presently see. People's lives change - they get married, change jobs, have kids, some move away. Those folks show up less and less, and new fans enter the picture - if you're constantly working to draw new people to visit your venue or see your band. In my latest "Weekend Recap" in "JP's Corner," I reported on the Giants Of Science, who have been playing the region for ten years - the biggest thing I noticed at the 4D's that night was that the crowd was totally different than what it was when that band first started playing Altoona a decade ago. Many of the folks who saw them at the G-Man back when the Giants first arrived in the mid-90's have moved on, and it was a whole new generation of fans - mostly in their early 20's - who were at the 4D's that night. I don't see too many of the old Sidewalk, Front, Korruption or Badwrench fans out and about any more; many of them have moved on to other things over time. Fan bases change over time, which is why bars and bands need to continue to work to draw in new people.
It's a complex situation, and it doesn't have a simple answer. I think the best thing that bars and bands can continue to do is control the variables they can control. Bands put their A-game out there on stage each night, and give every audience the best show they can. Bars and clubs continue to provide a friendly atmosphere, clean facilities, good food and service, affordable drink specials. And both bands and bars/clubs - continue to advertise and market to draw in new people. Figure out ways to get those couch potatoes and computer geeks out of their houses at night to see what you have to offer. What can you do to convince somebody that it's worth their effort and risk to step out of the house and give your situation a chance?
And when they show up, deliver the goods! If folks have a good time and pleasant experience visiting your venue or seeing your band, they'll probably be back for more. If they have a bad experience, they won't.
With rising gas prices and other expenses that the average person has to deal with any more, I think more and more people are choosing one night to go out on the weekend - it's all they can afford. I'm noticing more and more in the Altoona area that if a huge-drawing band is in town during a given weekend, it's generally slow for everyone else not just on that night, but slower for the whole weekend as well. Case in point this past weekend: Vs. the Earth was in town Saturday night at the 4D's, and had a packed house (as established on another thread). Backstreet Law was at Pellegrine's on Sunday, and didn't draw as well as they usually do. I think both bands have a lot of common fans (same age group, etc.), and many of their entertainment budgets for the weekend were spent by the end of Saturday night. Money is tighter, and people are choosing what show they want to see on a given weekend.
Also in Altoona, the news headlines are keeping some people at home. That's been a trend ever since the UVA shooting last year, and the frequent recent headlines of drive-by's, shootings, drug busts, etc. are likely keeping some people home at nights. Every time one of those incidents happens and gets widely reported, it's likely hurting attendance.
On another regional music message board I visit, somebody gave another explanation that I've noticed myself: fan bases and crowds change with time. If you've been involved in the scene for over five years, it's likely that the same fans and clientelle you saw five years ago are different from the fans and clientelle you presently see. People's lives change - they get married, change jobs, have kids, some move away. Those folks show up less and less, and new fans enter the picture - if you're constantly working to draw new people to visit your venue or see your band. In my latest "Weekend Recap" in "JP's Corner," I reported on the Giants Of Science, who have been playing the region for ten years - the biggest thing I noticed at the 4D's that night was that the crowd was totally different than what it was when that band first started playing Altoona a decade ago. Many of the folks who saw them at the G-Man back when the Giants first arrived in the mid-90's have moved on, and it was a whole new generation of fans - mostly in their early 20's - who were at the 4D's that night. I don't see too many of the old Sidewalk, Front, Korruption or Badwrench fans out and about any more; many of them have moved on to other things over time. Fan bases change over time, which is why bars and bands need to continue to work to draw in new people.
It's a complex situation, and it doesn't have a simple answer. I think the best thing that bars and bands can continue to do is control the variables they can control. Bands put their A-game out there on stage each night, and give every audience the best show they can. Bars and clubs continue to provide a friendly atmosphere, clean facilities, good food and service, affordable drink specials. And both bands and bars/clubs - continue to advertise and market to draw in new people. Figure out ways to get those couch potatoes and computer geeks out of their houses at night to see what you have to offer. What can you do to convince somebody that it's worth their effort and risk to step out of the house and give your situation a chance?
And when they show up, deliver the goods! If folks have a good time and pleasant experience visiting your venue or seeing your band, they'll probably be back for more. If they have a bad experience, they won't.
[quote="Lisa"]
Another thing I don't get about the customers....We have a live band....we get two customers at the beginning of the night that pop their heads in...see that there are only 5 people in the bar....they leave. Trying to find the crowd. 5 minutes later, 5 people do the same thing. Another 10 minutes, 3 more....it goes like this all night long. If the original 2 would stay the next five would stay....then the next 3....and next thing you know, the crowd would be there...but they don't. How silly is that?
[/quote]
How true Lisa's statement is. We have played several of the largest, nicest, top rooms in the area the past month and this happened often where people look in and leave if the crowd is not there early. If they all stayed, the crowd would have been there. One place we played holds about 400-500 people and if we have 100 people, it looks empty and people won't come in. Then, people also say they don't want to be there first when the band starts. They don't want to show up until 11:00. That is like going to the movies after the movie is half over. The customers, club owners and managers who did see us say we are one of the best bands they have ever seen and they can't figure out why there aren't more people there.
I also agree with Lisa's comment about the private parties, weddings, picnics, etc. It is very difficult to compete with those in a less populated area where most of the people go there instead of the local nightclub.
Another thing I don't get about the customers....We have a live band....we get two customers at the beginning of the night that pop their heads in...see that there are only 5 people in the bar....they leave. Trying to find the crowd. 5 minutes later, 5 people do the same thing. Another 10 minutes, 3 more....it goes like this all night long. If the original 2 would stay the next five would stay....then the next 3....and next thing you know, the crowd would be there...but they don't. How silly is that?
[/quote]
How true Lisa's statement is. We have played several of the largest, nicest, top rooms in the area the past month and this happened often where people look in and leave if the crowd is not there early. If they all stayed, the crowd would have been there. One place we played holds about 400-500 people and if we have 100 people, it looks empty and people won't come in. Then, people also say they don't want to be there first when the band starts. They don't want to show up until 11:00. That is like going to the movies after the movie is half over. The customers, club owners and managers who did see us say we are one of the best bands they have ever seen and they can't figure out why there aren't more people there.
I also agree with Lisa's comment about the private parties, weddings, picnics, etc. It is very difficult to compete with those in a less populated area where most of the people go there instead of the local nightclub.
Davey's Lounge in Hastings is as backwoods as it gets. Private parties and weddings are the norm in this region but that doesn't affect our Saturday nights there. More often than not, we're the hosts of the wedding receptions in that area, after they leave the actual reception.moxham123 wrote:I also agree with Lisa's comment about the private parties, weddings, picnics, etc. It is very difficult to compete with those in a less populated area where most of the people go there instead of the local nightclub.
Product, patience and persistance. Those are the keys to success in any venue. But you have to have all three.
r:>)
That's what she said.
Re: sorry
I guess it is as simple as this: We all love music. We either play, or go to see good musicians play music LIVE. Going out to see LIVE music is my only real social life.tornandfrayed wrote:Sorry again but it is not the 70's nor the 80's. It is however 2006 and people are not going out to clubs to see live bands. So if you are doing this for money you should probably go somewhere else that has a better nitelife. If you charge a set amount and don't draw people then you won't get booked, if you don't get booked you obviously make less then your set amount. If you take the door then the bar won't loose money and drive themselves out of business. If the bars go out of business then you don't get your set amount.
I guess the question here is why are people not going out to see bands anymore?
Is it really the DUI situation? Do people have to get drunk to enjoy live music? I don't think so, maybe someone should try something different as a band to see if that makes a difference. Although I don't think much will make a difference around here, I mean you guys are the music scene.
Hate to restate the obvious but JP hit the nail on the head.
Them, the others, the ones who do not come out in droves to hear live music much, do not love music like we all do. I do not know if we can do anything about it.
Maybe good music has been diluted over the decades. I hear people talk about American Idol everywhere. I have never seen it, because I know it if just friggin kareoke. If the average dork out there accepts American Idol shit as music, then real musicians are fucked.
I think musicians play music for themselves and for other musicians and real music lovers.
Re: sorry
I think you are correct about the dilution of good music. I think it has happened from both ends though. Both kareoke pop and extreme hard core stuff. To me, both are more about the "show" than the music.undercoverjoe wrote:Maybe good music has been diluted over the decades. I hear people talk about American Idol everywhere. I have never seen it, because I know it if just friggin kareoke. If the average dork out there accepts American Idol shit as music, then real musicians are fucked.
I think musicians play music for themselves and for other musicians and real music lovers.
For the record, some of the performers on american idol aren't half bad. They don't sing to tape playback. It's rehearsed and performed with a live band and orchestra... some of the best live musicianship I've seen in a while on TV. The musicians are very good that the singers work with.