Crowbar = Nobar

[Banned]

Here We go again!!!!! round and round we go answer me this do all of you on here play for the MONEY? and only the MONEY? or do you play because you like to get up onstage and play for the fun of it? seems to me too many people on here are trying to make a living out of this and they hanen't figured it out yet you are in FUCKING ALTOONA. there is no money here. their will neve be any money here so unless you'r willing to play for free, because you like to play, thats all you'll ever be able to do. if you can't see that then you should get out of that bussiness!!!!

[Ron]

Hey BRAINIAC, Crowbar is in State College, not Altoona.

You are this || close to saying goodbye to this site. Nobody wants your assinine opinions.

Consider yourself warned.

[Banned]

I Know where its at, I was taking in general about all of it

[jangel]

I can't recall more than 4 or 5 places between Jtown & Altoona that need a sound system brought in and a sound man to run it. the rest of the bars & clubs can be run with your own sound system & no sound tech. Outdoors different story. Alot of bands try to run huge sound systems in small rooms and can't figure out why things don't sound good.

If you can't run your LIQUIOR establishment on LIQUOR sales then WTF.

If you can't play music without playing in bars then WTF.

Several yrs ago a local establishment did exactly that....we were packing the place and when it came time to get payed we knew we were getting screwed..........so we quit playing there....took our following with us, we had no problems getting more gigs. If you hire a band with a good reputation and following you shouldn't have problems finding gigs.
How about considering the size of the place..like how many people can you put in it, before you book it. try going out and checking the place out first.
Im also not saying that all club/bar owners are on the up & up. they usually are out of business in a few yrs. it all catches up with you.

[Ron]

Gazoo... Generalizing something as complex as running a club or playing in a band is generally showing general stupidity.

It is better to be quiet and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and prove it.

[nightcrawler_steve]

Generalizing something as complex as running a club or playing in a band is generally showing general stupidity.

It is better to be quiet and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and prove it.

OMG - Go Ron! Go Ron! Sure have missed ya buddy!

[Banned]

Well then son you don't know me very well now do you????????

[ToonaRockGuy]

Quiet, DJ.

[EyesOfAnguishbassist]

The crowbar shutting down really does shock me. I always thought that that place made mad money. But that just goes to show what I know lol.....The thing that really sucks about this is that was the closest venue around my area that has national acts....Now I gotta travel EVEN farther

[Ron]

Where will I go to see Gwar now?

[4:33]

Where will I go to see Gwar now?

LOL. One of my fondest Crowbar moments was from the spring of 1996. At the time, I was one of the bassists for The Flame Sky (Orchestra), and we arrived at The Crowbar to play. As we entered, we noticed that the staff was cleaning up red and green paint/goo product, and it was everywhere! We were informed that Gwar had played there previously, and was hacking away at a giant head of Jerry Garcia, thereby spraying the red and green stuff in all directions.

Any other Crowbar (mis)adventures worth sharing?

[UncleScabby]

Where will I go to see Gwar now?

Gwar at the Crowbar was the first real show I went to on my own, and coincidentally the first real date I ever took a girl on! Now I guess we'll have to drive the whole way to Mr. Smalls in Pittsburgh to see them. It's a great venue, but you're definitely denied the 100% drench guarantee that the crowbar gave you. Plus the 2+ hour drive home from Pittsburgh with chafing from assorted juices is a big bummer.

[J Michaels]

Crowbar misadvenures? Well, mostly in the dressing room downstairs ( no hoochie coochie or anything, but related activities - girls gone wild indeed....)

But, being friends with the guys in Bad Hair Day, I was there when BHD played the night of the Bon Jovi concert at the Bryce Jordan Center. It seemed like half the crowd from the BJC came down there - I've never seen the place so packed and totally into the band. Sitting in on Wanted DOA by Bon Jovi and seeing the place totally rocking out was quite a thrill.

When we had Big Bang Theory, we opened for BHD two nights after Dimebag was killed. We finished with Cowboys From Hell and the place went nuts... totally amazing. What a rush.

I hope everyone is right in that the place will reopen, refurbished and re-energized. One of my all-time favorite places to go, and definitely to play.

[g1wgs]

the rest of the bars & clubs can be run with your own sound system & no sound tech.

Yeah cause you can really tell how it sounds out front when you are sitting on stage. That in and of itself isn't even the issue. It's mostly having the know how of running ANY PA. Most systems I see are heaps.

Outdoors different story. Alot of bands try to run huge sound systems in small rooms and can't figure out why things don't sound good.

Thanks for demonstrating you know absolutley nothing about sound reinforcement. It's not about volume. It's about coverage. You should leave it to the pro's.

If you can't run your LIQUIOR establishment on LIQUOR sales then WTF.

If you can't play music without playing in bars then WTF.

That sounds clever, but it isn't. Sure bands can play music without playing in a bar.... actually let me restate this. Bars are mostly a waste of time. If you don't have a stage and a dance floor and can only hold less than 250 people, you are not a club. To me, a club is a place people go to dance and listen to live music. That's what I'm talking about. If the club has a bar, great. The club makes money off of the bars sales. If it's just a watering hole... then why are bands playing even there. That addresses your comments about size and scoping the venue out first.

[RobTheDrummer]

Ok, stop the nonsense already. Crowbar was a cool ass place, they need to do something period! Enough with the "how to run a business" we all put our words into this and it's enough already. Respect the venue for what it has done for most everyone on here.

[bsaller]

Crowbar closing sucks.


I'm going to carefully choose my words here, so I don't piss anyone off. And if I sound sef-righteous or arrogant, I'm not being so, it's just your interpretation.

I've been playing here in Central PA since 1993. I know a lot of people that have been playing here a LOT longer. But in that time, I've played more than my share of crap gigs for little or no money, with half-assed PA and no crowds. I've played a few nice rooms and had some nice crowds, with rented PA. I thought that I knew it all about the music biz, in dealing with local clubs, owners, and patrons, and I got somewhat arrogant at times, as people will tell you. It's one of my faults.

Then I joined Scream.

Now, I see how the whole biz goes together. I'm not nearly as arrogant, although I know that a few people think that I am. When people ask me why Scream doesn't play in Altoona, my answer is that nobody here can afford us or is willing to pay us. It's not arrogance. It's fact. We're always willing to work with the ownership to get established, but most owners don't acknowledge the fact that we're not a "new" band, we do have a following, and we have more extensive overhead costs than most bands, too. There are costs that need to be met, including gas, and pay for our production crew and tons of gear. (We employ not only the band, but a sound/light/road crew of at least 6 every show.)

I enjoy playing out in front of a crowd. I love to entertain people. But at my age and at this point of my life, I do what I call the "50/50 rule". I play 50% for me, to save my sanity. But I also play 50% for the money. I'm past the age of the desire to be discovered, or write the next great rock song. I do this for the extra money. And if I'm not going to get paid at least half-decently, it's not worth my time away from my family to drag my ass out and put forth the effort. Call me arrogant, call me jaded, call me whatever you want. (Except Warren.) But my time is worth money. I do take part in benefit shows as often as I can. But I'm not a rich man, so I can't afford to do a lot of freebies or "door only" shows.

I think I lost my train of thought somewhere along the way here. But I did want to share this, since I do know that a lot of people think that they "know" how to run a bar. It's a lot harder than what you think. And if you think you know it all, you can guarantee that you don't.

You took the words right out of my mouth. I've been doing this locally and regionally, since 1967 and I can tell ya that things around here used to rock!!! Till about the mid 80's when DJ's and then Karaoke (God i can't believe I typed that word)came along. Granted our population has decreased by about 25,000 since the mid-seventies, but I've dealt with a lot of bar owners and most want to pay the least and make the most. The greed gets em in the end.
Since this thread is about the Crowbar, I spent about 3 months trying to contact the manager after having sent him Press Kit. I finally got a hold of him and he proceeded to tell me that "ya your songs sound great, just like the record,but.... you need more guitar and drum solos'. I was fuckin speechless. All I could was say"yea right" and hang up the phone. Shit it was a press kit not our whole repetoire! But hey, the manager may already have known he was goin down the tubes.

[songsmith]

1967? 1967? Where the hell do you get off with your 39 years of band experience and thousands of hours onstage? Huh, mister? Huh?
Dude, I'm pretty old, but hol-lee shyte. Can we get you anything? Some Geritol, or a Depends or something?
Just yankin' ya, brother. Get well soon.

I admit I am enjoying the communication the Crowbar closing has generated here. Never been there, myself, but not for any negative reason, just never got there. I play a lot of weekends, and seldom stray far when I'm off. Anyway, it's gotten us talking about the club/band relationship, and that can't hurt. The younger guys are reading and learning, I bet.----------->JMS

[BigJohn]

Educated guess 15 years of experience
If running a bar is so easy and profitable then why are they all closing !!! CROWBAR: est. a month
insurance $700.00
electricity $650.00
heat $500.00
employee $16,000.00 at 10 at 40hrs.
rent $3,500.00
repairs $200.00
Total = $21,550.00 again just a guess
thats $5400.00 a week before you buy a beer for the cooler or a jagermeister for the shelf to sell. These cost do not go down if no one shows up to here a band they are fixed upfront costs to the club.
Someone said they could not afford to do door deals well if you bring a crowd and you play for the the door everyone gets paid if no one shows up you don't get paid the club owner still owes someone that $5400.00 a week.

[tornandfrayed]

I think that JP hit the nail on the head the other day in his Review section. He stated that the DJ's and Karaoke are not stealing our business. We are giving it to them because we are not doing anything that the people really give a shit about. Most of the packed places that I have been in recently seem to be meat markets. Even National Acts are sometimes very boring to watch.

I think that the spectaclel of Rock and Roll is in a downward spiral. I think that the show matters! Along with great music. The Crowbar is a sign of the times. The people are getting their needs met somewhere else.

Hopefully it will reopen and make another go of it. I guess you guys that live up that way would have the best idea of what people are doing but really get shows that kick ass! Get shows that are shows, I mean I like watching four guys in jeans get up and do some cool covers and maybe a couple cool originals but it gets to the point of indifference. Maybe the singer wears shorts and cups the mike and jumps up and down but come on! Many times local bands are interchangable. There are very few with personality.

Here's hoping that the Music scene in Central PA comes together and things start to happen. I have seen really cool scenes evolve but the one thing I know that has to happen is that the (a) band(s) has to step out and do something different. You can't keep doing things the same way and expect different results, there is a word for that...

[Atomic Jim]

I guess I've been playing bars too long. Could someone explain the concept of an all age venue? Thanks.

[jangel]

g1wgs is an ass. he thinks he is a sound guy but couldn't tell his ass from a sound bite. some sound techs I know know him ......rookie!

[ToonaRockGuy]

I guess I've been playing bars too long. Could someone explain the concept of an all age venue? Thanks.

Jim,

An all-age venue is just what it sounds like. It's a place for kids under 21 to go to see live music. Places here in Altoona do that, including The Lion's Den in Juniata, and (before it closed) the Becky Sheetz Center.

There is no booze allowed, adults monitor the kids, and the bands come in and play. It's basically just like a bar gig except for no booze. Just a way to expose local music to the under-21 crowd.

[JayBird]

Yeah - the whole $300 for a band is bullsit. That is a blow to a band when a club is willing to pay some schmuck $150 to push one button on his IPOD and call himself a DJ. What is all involved in being a DJ now-a-days? Let's be realistic...$150 for one man is much better than $300 for a whole band, but a whole band is worth so much more and requires so much more talent to do their craft. You need talent to be in a band, but there is no talent in being a dj in today's market. Now, don't get me wrong, some DJs put on a great show and deserve some nice change in their pockets, but around her...give them $50. That's comparable to giving a band $300, splitting it 4-5 ways, + the cost of their equipmet, travel, etc.

The problem with these bars is that they rely toooooooo much on agency bands. Just cause a band is with a well known "agency" doesn't mean they will pull you a huge crowd. Most of these bands tour around so much that they don't even have time to promote the show - flyers, posters, word-of-mouth, etc. There are more local bands that will play for around $300-$400 and pull the same sized crowd than a band asking for $2000.

Then there is the high priced alcohol issue. Would you rather get 100 people paying $5.00 for a drink or 200 people paying $3.00 a drink. I've seen clubs sale 12 bottles of Jager when they do Jager bombs for $4.00. Now at the Hard Rock Cafe in Pittsburgh a Jager bomb is around $8.50 - I doubt they sale two bottle of Jager a day...there Jager is no better than the mom and pop bar up the road.

It's all simple math. If you are pushing people away becuse of your prices, THEN LOWER THEM - offer the people something other then thin wallets to drink in your establishment. If you aren't seeing the returns after booking an HIGH PRICED band, then don't rebook...look at other options.

I'm done ranting...

[bassist_25]

I was debating on which thread to chime in on because this theme's going on in like three different threads, but I think this is the best one to post this in.

I'm only 23, so I'm pretty young; but I like to think that I have a pretty good head on my shoulders about things and I'm realistic with what I want to accomplish in music, at least at this point of my life. I hear a lot about how things were 20 or even 10 years ago, i.e. how it was standing room only every night and the pay was great, ect. I've been gigging since I was 18 years old. I'm very happy with the crowd turn outs we've been seeing. Yeah, like every band that's ever paid its dues, we've played to the chairs - but crowd turn outs have been very consistent for us. I remember being 19 and playing to an empty room at the Ferris Wheel and I remember having successful nights at clubs crowd-wise, but still only walking out with 25 bucks in my pocket, so I don't see how things were any better five years ago. I love playing the rooms we're in now, and I've never had so much fun in the music biz. Yeah, the scene has its problems. I wish that Fridays in Altoona were as happening as the Saturdays. The DUI laws suck, and this noise ordiance is a MAJOR problem. But you have to soldier on. I was never one to live in the past. Yeah, some clubs have closed, but some clubs have either opened, such as the White Lady Tavern, or have started having entertainment, such as Bar 53 in Coalport. It all evens out.

I don't know if we're doing anything differently, but whatever we're doing seems to work. Maybe Tornandfrayed is correct: Maybe the bands that aren't having the turn outs they wish for are doing something wrong. Maybe people are tired of hearing Old Time Rock n' Roll. Maybe they're tired of seeing frontmen with as much charisma as Al Gore. Look at the schedules of HF1, Felix and the Hurricanes, and the Conniptions. Apparently they're doing something right, because I can only dream of a schedule like those.

This may offend some people, but I have to agree with Lonewolf: I think that we need to weed out the wannabes, let the cream rise to the top. The first and foremost reason anyone should play music is because they love it. I like to get paid as much as anybody, but there's no way any sane person would stay in music if their was no love for it, despite how many paychecks and groupies came their way. The musicians that get frustrated when hard times hit and going to quit and hang it up. The true musicians are going stick it up and become the veterans of the scene. In the words of Sir Paul McCartney: "Rock n' roll: You either do it or you don't."

Sorry if I offended anyone with my post, because that wasn't my intetion. But I think it needed to be said. I try to be the politically correct Doug Cruise.

[cruseaudio]

B25, PC is just another smokescreen, invented by the MAN to help keep us down!!!!

If were to worried to tell each other how we feel then we all are in the DARK brother

There probably shouldn't be a pollitically correct Doug Cruse, A Doug Cruse divided against itself, surely cannot stand?