Ok, so you've got the hit songs written, rehearsed, and ready to go. You've gigged, you have the cash, and you're ready to record. You decide to go the studio route rather than record at home. What are factors that determine your choice?
Cost?
Lots of Outboard Gear?
Latest Gear/Plug-ins?
Having Pro-tools (such a stupid reason, but whatever)?
Knowing Pro-tools?
A knowledgeable staff?
a.) knowledable about recording and using the gear?
b.) knowledgeable music layouts, and theory?
Do you want a producer behind the board or and engineer behind the board?
Any other thoughts?
Just trying to get an idea of what the majority of the people are looking for. Since I'll be opening out of the area, this could be helpfull for those studios in PA.
What would you want out of a studio???
What would you want out of a studio???
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HurricaneBob
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Ah, you are the Jedi Master.... 
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On a pillow of your bones
I will lay across the stones
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I will lay across the stones
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drums=life
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tornandfrayed
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Curious
So the technical specs of the studio have nothing to do with your choices? Using a program like "Pro Tools" as opposed to a more linear program like Cubase or Live doesn't matter? How about a sofa, is a sofa required?
I am just wondering wether people make a studio decision based on the technical specs and competence of the the studio or wether it has a sofa and a ping pong table.
And what about genre? Do you want someone who specializes or who has a diverse range of production credits? This is a very interesting topic.
I think that around here it is always going to come down to cost. I have had people very interested in recording when they thought it was free, but when I mention a price they go somewhere else that is actually cheaper. In my case it doesn't really matter becasue I have a job but if I were doing this to put bread and beer on the table I would be pissed! I have to wonder wether they really care at all.
The way I see it if you believe that someone is going to do a good job for you then you should pay them what they are worth.
As far a s technology goes I would assume that these same people really have no clue what the technology behind the studio is.
Then mastering the project! I have done a few mastering projects and have finally gotten to the point where I have the right tools (1000's of $) and have a reasonable idea of how to use them. Up to that point though we were just doing the best we could.
I also agree with Fedup that the engineer/producer needs to take some time to get to know the band so that they can better help to bring their vision to life. It always helps me to get to know the guys, see them live a few times and get a feel for what they are. That is on a persoanl non tech level.
thoughts?
I am just wondering wether people make a studio decision based on the technical specs and competence of the the studio or wether it has a sofa and a ping pong table.
And what about genre? Do you want someone who specializes or who has a diverse range of production credits? This is a very interesting topic.
I think that around here it is always going to come down to cost. I have had people very interested in recording when they thought it was free, but when I mention a price they go somewhere else that is actually cheaper. In my case it doesn't really matter becasue I have a job but if I were doing this to put bread and beer on the table I would be pissed! I have to wonder wether they really care at all.
The way I see it if you believe that someone is going to do a good job for you then you should pay them what they are worth.
As far a s technology goes I would assume that these same people really have no clue what the technology behind the studio is.
Then mastering the project! I have done a few mastering projects and have finally gotten to the point where I have the right tools (1000's of $) and have a reasonable idea of how to use them. Up to that point though we were just doing the best we could.
I also agree with Fedup that the engineer/producer needs to take some time to get to know the band so that they can better help to bring their vision to life. It always helps me to get to know the guys, see them live a few times and get a feel for what they are. That is on a persoanl non tech level.
thoughts?
Last edited by tornandfrayed on Wednesday May 10, 2006, edited 1 time in total.
Torn & Frayed
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Music is LIFE!
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Music is LIFE!
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JustinGelvin
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as far as going into the studio for our unsigned bands, i think its definately your right to have everything like YOU "the band" wants it to be.....
i mean suggestions from the person running the studio are ok but since we are all unsigned bands, the final say should definately be ours....
i mean suggestions from the person running the studio are ok but since we are all unsigned bands, the final say should definately be ours....
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drums=life
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DirtySanchez
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Technology is important, but that doesn't sign the deal for me.
I mean everything is so user friendly now you can be a total idiot
and still look savvy. A good professional reputation, an unbias opinion
of genre, and a willingness to listen to what the band wants plus give your opinions from an "are you open for a suggestion" standpoint.
What really irritates me are these studios who think they are so good they
tell you how to sound. As far as price, with unsigned musicians you have to be low cost, but a good reputation and a professional resume should allow you to get away with charging what you want. I mean we could have recorded for less elsewhere, but chose not to, for a more professional, reputable studio.
I mean everything is so user friendly now you can be a total idiot
and still look savvy. A good professional reputation, an unbias opinion
of genre, and a willingness to listen to what the band wants plus give your opinions from an "are you open for a suggestion" standpoint.
What really irritates me are these studios who think they are so good they
tell you how to sound. As far as price, with unsigned musicians you have to be low cost, but a good reputation and a professional resume should allow you to get away with charging what you want. I mean we could have recorded for less elsewhere, but chose not to, for a more professional, reputable studio.
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AtoMikEnRtiA
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all i give a fuck about - after experiencing this and the shititude it brought forth..
if your producer is doing nothing but drowning 36 oz glasses of scotch one by one.. it may be time to re-consider..
if your producer is doing nothing but drowning 36 oz glasses of scotch one by one.. it may be time to re-consider..
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DirtySanchez
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Skills > technology.
Especially today when recording software is widely available. Not that you don't want to have a hard drive full of useful tools, but it'll be tough to sell your services based on it. Most of your potential clients either: 1) have no idea what any of that stuff is, or 2) have already leeched a copy for themselves and don't think they need your studio in the first place.
Real gear is another story, especially if you know how to get great sounds out of it. People may jump at a chance to come in and record their demo on your Matchless/Bogner/Eden goodies.
But to echo what everyone is saying, the best thing you can do is help people get the sound they want to achieve. This is as much an interpersonal skill as it is an engineering skill.
Especially today when recording software is widely available. Not that you don't want to have a hard drive full of useful tools, but it'll be tough to sell your services based on it. Most of your potential clients either: 1) have no idea what any of that stuff is, or 2) have already leeched a copy for themselves and don't think they need your studio in the first place.
Real gear is another story, especially if you know how to get great sounds out of it. People may jump at a chance to come in and record their demo on your Matchless/Bogner/Eden goodies.
But to echo what everyone is saying, the best thing you can do is help people get the sound they want to achieve. This is as much an interpersonal skill as it is an engineering skill.
So for those of you who want an engineer rather than a producer and want to record your own sound, is it still the responsibility of the engineer to point out bad notes, of key pitches, and timing issues? Even if no one else in the band hears it?
When working at Audacity, I worked with a client who couldn't hit the right key if her life depended on it. Blatantly. Instead of going higher to hit the note, she kept going LOUDER. I then got accused of just trying to rack up tracking time to get more $$ out of her? Eventually, I let it go, and the product is embarrasing. Embarrasing that I recorded it, embarrasing for her. I'll post a link if you all are interested.
In my own experiences as a musician, I've had engineers that said completely nothing and after mix down, I've heard 2 or three bad notes that could've been easily punched in, yet no one ever said anything about them. To fix those problems after the fact would've cost me a lot more in the long run.
-----
As far as the tech sector, how are skills and gear ranked towards each other. I'm digi certified, and have Pro-tools, yet never use it. I'd rather work on Sonar where I have a lot more options as far as A/D converters and plug-ins at a reasonable cost (allowing me to keep my rates lower).
Would you rather use a standard stereotype for all the hype? Is it important to you that a studio at least has the options?
There's also the point of outboard gear and outboard vs. plug-ins. It's a whole different debate, but would it be more important to you to walk into a studio with the needed outboard (Some compressors, a verb/delay unit or two, some amp sims, a midi unit, DAT, and a few different pre-amps).
Or would you rather see a studio that set up for optimum sound. 24" studs in the walls to increase the air locks allowing for better isolation, and symmetrical but non-square rooms for proper mixing and the reduction of bass buildup, ect ect ect.
-------
I know ideally everything would be great, however when recording rates are a concern for an unsigned band, cost and where to spend the money becomes an issue for the studio owner.
When working at Audacity, I worked with a client who couldn't hit the right key if her life depended on it. Blatantly. Instead of going higher to hit the note, she kept going LOUDER. I then got accused of just trying to rack up tracking time to get more $$ out of her? Eventually, I let it go, and the product is embarrasing. Embarrasing that I recorded it, embarrasing for her. I'll post a link if you all are interested.
In my own experiences as a musician, I've had engineers that said completely nothing and after mix down, I've heard 2 or three bad notes that could've been easily punched in, yet no one ever said anything about them. To fix those problems after the fact would've cost me a lot more in the long run.
-----
As far as the tech sector, how are skills and gear ranked towards each other. I'm digi certified, and have Pro-tools, yet never use it. I'd rather work on Sonar where I have a lot more options as far as A/D converters and plug-ins at a reasonable cost (allowing me to keep my rates lower).
Would you rather use a standard stereotype for all the hype? Is it important to you that a studio at least has the options?
There's also the point of outboard gear and outboard vs. plug-ins. It's a whole different debate, but would it be more important to you to walk into a studio with the needed outboard (Some compressors, a verb/delay unit or two, some amp sims, a midi unit, DAT, and a few different pre-amps).
Or would you rather see a studio that set up for optimum sound. 24" studs in the walls to increase the air locks allowing for better isolation, and symmetrical but non-square rooms for proper mixing and the reduction of bass buildup, ect ect ect.
-------
I know ideally everything would be great, however when recording rates are a concern for an unsigned band, cost and where to spend the money becomes an issue for the studio owner.
Last edited by Mackovyak on Wednesday May 10, 2006, edited 1 time in total.
www.seventides.net
On a pillow of your bones
I will lay across the stones
Of your shore until the tide comes crawling back
On a pillow of your bones
I will lay across the stones
Of your shore until the tide comes crawling back
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bassist_25
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For me, I'm more concerned with the engineer's ability rather than the gear he's using. Just about any pro-level studio is going to have at least 30+ tracks available, so that's usually not even issue. I've never been involved with a project that did that many overdubs.
The primary thing I want from a studio when I go in is a professional-sounding final product. I've heard many "demo" quality recordings from local studios, and if I want a demo, I'll have one of our soundguys do a live board recording or I'll just pull out my 4-track recorder.
The primary thing I want from a studio when I go in is a professional-sounding final product. I've heard many "demo" quality recordings from local studios, and if I want a demo, I'll have one of our soundguys do a live board recording or I'll just pull out my 4-track recorder.
"He's the electric horseman, you better back off!" - old sKool making a reference to the culturally relevant 1979 film.
In order:
First, price. I know, I know... you get what you pay for. Well, home recording technology has progressed things really far. I can get a far better product in my living room now than I could at a demo-level studio 15 years ago. Pro studios have to compete with that, whether or not they want to. So if I can put a grand or two in some Ebay used gear, and get a useable demo, why wouldn't I? Well, that's number two:
Service. Service, service,service. I can record a demo in my living room, but my living room doesn't have iso rooms, nice gear I can "borrow," and a happily focused individual helping me get my job done. Audible Images Studio has great gear, to be sure, but Bill Filer's the real secret to that place. I have an audio background, and can do an acceptable rudimentary job as an engineer, but Bill allows the artist to worry about the art. He didn't necessarily point out clams, but if I discovered them, he'd acknowledge it and we'd fix it (of course, the artist has to admit mistakes for that relationship to work, otherwise, they get the product they deserve). He was fast getting things set up, and intuitive about our mixdown needs once we did a few preliminary mixes. Sidestep recorded a club demo, 4 cover songs and an original, and mixed it in 7 hours, over 2 days ( never mix down the same day as tracking, especially on a multi-song project, or very heavy loud material). A year later, I'm still happy with the sound of it, and it was the best studio experience I ever helped pay for, in a pretty extensive recording career.
Finally, tech. Really nice monitors, a clean console and recording hardware, good mic selection, and tight rooms are inestimably helpful to getting a good product. One can get a good sound without them, but it's way tougher. I place tech last because many of my favorite records were cut live to a small console, with an old plate reverb or none at all, and lots were cut in mono. I realize that's not feasible for most modern music, but it's a touchstone to what can be done.------->JMS
First, price. I know, I know... you get what you pay for. Well, home recording technology has progressed things really far. I can get a far better product in my living room now than I could at a demo-level studio 15 years ago. Pro studios have to compete with that, whether or not they want to. So if I can put a grand or two in some Ebay used gear, and get a useable demo, why wouldn't I? Well, that's number two:
Service. Service, service,service. I can record a demo in my living room, but my living room doesn't have iso rooms, nice gear I can "borrow," and a happily focused individual helping me get my job done. Audible Images Studio has great gear, to be sure, but Bill Filer's the real secret to that place. I have an audio background, and can do an acceptable rudimentary job as an engineer, but Bill allows the artist to worry about the art. He didn't necessarily point out clams, but if I discovered them, he'd acknowledge it and we'd fix it (of course, the artist has to admit mistakes for that relationship to work, otherwise, they get the product they deserve). He was fast getting things set up, and intuitive about our mixdown needs once we did a few preliminary mixes. Sidestep recorded a club demo, 4 cover songs and an original, and mixed it in 7 hours, over 2 days ( never mix down the same day as tracking, especially on a multi-song project, or very heavy loud material). A year later, I'm still happy with the sound of it, and it was the best studio experience I ever helped pay for, in a pretty extensive recording career.
Finally, tech. Really nice monitors, a clean console and recording hardware, good mic selection, and tight rooms are inestimably helpful to getting a good product. One can get a good sound without them, but it's way tougher. I place tech last because many of my favorite records were cut live to a small console, with an old plate reverb or none at all, and lots were cut in mono. I realize that's not feasible for most modern music, but it's a touchstone to what can be done.------->JMS
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nightcrawler_steve
I absolutely agree with songsmith about Audible Images Studio in Stormstown. We recorded the drums for our last EP and our soon to be released full-length CD. Bill is incredibly easy to work with, has great equipment, great rates and an awesome room with a relaxed atmosphere in his place. And a pretty wicked cool dog too!
Thing is, and Bill and I discussed this, we only did the drums there because of his room and 1st class mics. We recordred, engineered and produced the rest of it ourselves. Home studios have put a hurting on his business. If you have the knowledge and equipment to do it yourself, why would you go to a studio? I realize not everyone has a home studio. We were lucky. We were able to record our EP and have 1000 wrapped/bar-coded CDs made for under $2000. If you think it would sound like a demo, please listen to it on myspace....its radio ready and has gotten quite a bit of local, national and international airplay.
I feel bad for someone trying to start out now.
~S
Thing is, and Bill and I discussed this, we only did the drums there because of his room and 1st class mics. We recordred, engineered and produced the rest of it ourselves. Home studios have put a hurting on his business. If you have the knowledge and equipment to do it yourself, why would you go to a studio? I realize not everyone has a home studio. We were lucky. We were able to record our EP and have 1000 wrapped/bar-coded CDs made for under $2000. If you think it would sound like a demo, please listen to it on myspace....its radio ready and has gotten quite a bit of local, national and international airplay.
I feel bad for someone trying to start out now.
~S
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TragicMind
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Heartless_Mockery_Records
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just my 2 cents take it or leave it.
If you have the equipment and capabilities i think you make a great recording yourself... you have unlimited time on your hands to tweak everything until you are satisfied. You don't have to watch the clock and wonder how much its costing you... Obviously, not everyone has access to that kind of gear and therefore are better off recording in a studio.
I think its important to let the person/people doing the recording know what is expected of them. If you want them to act as a producer, let them know. If you just want them to engineer it let them know. Communication is the key. An engineer is there to capture the recording of "YOUR SOUND" whatever it might be, the producer helps the band with their arrangements, getting their "sound", etc. and keeps everything running along smoothly.
Some of the best stuff I have heard was when the band brought along a trusted 3rd party to act as their "producer" making all of the final judgements and working with the engineer and band to achieve their goal.
This is the way that all the majors work... band, producer, engineer, mixer, and mastering engineer all being different people. 9/10 these recordings rival the self-produced project studio ones.
Again just my 2 cents.
If you have the equipment and capabilities i think you make a great recording yourself... you have unlimited time on your hands to tweak everything until you are satisfied. You don't have to watch the clock and wonder how much its costing you... Obviously, not everyone has access to that kind of gear and therefore are better off recording in a studio.
I think its important to let the person/people doing the recording know what is expected of them. If you want them to act as a producer, let them know. If you just want them to engineer it let them know. Communication is the key. An engineer is there to capture the recording of "YOUR SOUND" whatever it might be, the producer helps the band with their arrangements, getting their "sound", etc. and keeps everything running along smoothly.
Some of the best stuff I have heard was when the band brought along a trusted 3rd party to act as their "producer" making all of the final judgements and working with the engineer and band to achieve their goal.
This is the way that all the majors work... band, producer, engineer, mixer, and mastering engineer all being different people. 9/10 these recordings rival the self-produced project studio ones.
Again just my 2 cents.
With the advanced technology and simple use of Digital recorders I'm sure it makes it tough on a studio.
Definalty let a band do there thing and don't try to be the producer if they don't want you to be. It doesn't hurt to make a few suggestions but if you see they are unwelcomed ease up. Pointing out flat notes however is good, I can see where that could piss someone off but not much you can do there. Also a band in a studio will be trying to get things done quik because cash is tight and you've gotta keep that in mind when making suggestions that will eat up time.
On the gear end, I don't think the gear is as important as being able to prove you can get a quality end result. Show them quality work you've done and who cares what you used to get it, use what works for you. I think a good setup is more impressive than the gear, plenty of room not crowded, treated well for sound. maybe a comfortable listening room for those not doing there takes.
Definalty let a band do there thing and don't try to be the producer if they don't want you to be. It doesn't hurt to make a few suggestions but if you see they are unwelcomed ease up. Pointing out flat notes however is good, I can see where that could piss someone off but not much you can do there. Also a band in a studio will be trying to get things done quik because cash is tight and you've gotta keep that in mind when making suggestions that will eat up time.
On the gear end, I don't think the gear is as important as being able to prove you can get a quality end result. Show them quality work you've done and who cares what you used to get it, use what works for you. I think a good setup is more impressive than the gear, plenty of room not crowded, treated well for sound. maybe a comfortable listening room for those not doing there takes.
Don't bitch to me about the economy while you're still buying Chinese products.
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HurricaneBob
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bassist_25
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I think that it's also important to remember that the engineer/producer's reputation is just as much on the the line as the artist being recorded.tonefight wrote:
Pointing out flat notes however is good, I can see where that could piss someone off but not much you can do there.
When it comes to live sound, I often feel sympathetic for sound engineers who have to deal with less than tight bands, guitarists scooping their mids and mudding up the mix, etc., because utlimately many people are going to blame the poor quality on the sound man.
"He's the electric horseman, you better back off!" - old sKool making a reference to the culturally relevant 1979 film.
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facingwest
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The ear.
You can have a studio packed full of gear and technology, but if the engineer doesn't have ear, you're going to get a crappy recording.
Studios back in the day recorded everything with one mic and placed everyone in the room around it and the final product was determined by a flawless performance from the musicians.
How ever, thank God for Les Paul inventing the multi-track recorder!!!!!!
You can have a studio packed full of gear and technology, but if the engineer doesn't have ear, you're going to get a crappy recording.
Studios back in the day recorded everything with one mic and placed everyone in the room around it and the final product was determined by a flawless performance from the musicians.
How ever, thank God for Les Paul inventing the multi-track recorder!!!!!!
The liver is evil....It needs punished.
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