Tired of the PLCB Noise Rule? Send a letter!

Punkinhead · Post by **Punkinhead** » Friday Apr 07, 2006

My letter is on the way (my wife will do one too). Good job with this everyone.

onetooloud · Post by **onetooloud** » Saturday Apr 08, 2006

I'm on my second box of envelopes. Over 50 sent out.

Like has been said earlier encourage people to include a personalised note if possible.

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Monday Apr 10, 2006

Take a look at the 2005 statistics for noise enforcement. Although it is one of the smaller offices, the Altoona office is a very close 3rd in the state for noise violations, even beating Pittsburgh 4:1.

http://www.psp.state.pa.us/blce/cwp/vie ... 3&Q=125331

Banned · Post by **Banned** » Monday Apr 10, 2006

Hey We Set a record Third In The State Last Year

So Lets Try Better This Year And Be Number One

ToonaRockGuy · Post by **ToonaRockGuy** » Monday Apr 10, 2006

With the above post sealing the deal, I hereby nominate Gazoo for official Rockpage "TROLL" status. Votes shall be cast, ballots counted, and Gazoo told to go crawl back under a rock. Do I hear a second to the motion so tabled?

tonefight · Post by **tonefight** » Monday Apr 10, 2006

tonefight · Post by **tonefight** » Monday Apr 10, 2006

anyone know where he lives ?

Lady Rock · Post by **Lady Rock** » Monday Apr 10, 2006

What does it matter where he lives?

tonefight · Post by **tonefight** » Monday Apr 10, 2006

Lady Rock wrote:What does it matter where he lives?

In case a group of guys wanted to tar and feather him.

Disclaimer : Just kidding, I'd never condone that type of behavior

Lady Rock · Post by **Lady Rock** » Monday Apr 10, 2006

I hope you don't treat all the "band fans" that way~lol

jangel · Post by **jangel** » Monday Apr 10, 2006

How do you know he /she is a band fan? for all we know they could be a fargon DJ. then I guess a tar and feathering isn't out of the question!

Lady Rock · Post by **Lady Rock** » Monday Apr 10, 2006

He use to be a DJ until he found employment that makes more money! Besides that, he lives at my house! Any questions?

Post by **Jim Price** » Monday Apr 10, 2006

Lady Rock wrote:

Any questions?

Actually, I do have a question. If he used to be a deejay and no longer has a vested interest in the noise issue, why is he posting disruptive crap on this thread? This would seem to verify ToonaRockGuy's nomination of Gazoo as official Rockpage "troll" as legitimate.

By the way, with Ron the Rockpage Webmaster halfway around the world and jetting with the King of Bahrain at least through early May, he has given me full administrative duties here at Rockpage, including the ability to ban usernames and block IP addresses. Although I do not have any imminent plans to do that just yet, I am a little bit curious about how the banning and blocking mechanisms work...

Banned · Post by **Banned** » Monday Apr 10, 2006

JP, you da man.

Gazoo could have an option of redeeming himself, on this topic, if he shows up at a live show, gets 20 audience members to sign the form about a runaway PLCB, and mail them in.

And no more snide remarks about fighting city hall. This is America, and we do have the right to fight city hall without fear for our lives and liberty.

jangel · Post by **jangel** » Monday Apr 10, 2006

Good question JP...............which also brings up the point of being a band fan.............or is it sour grapes of not Dj ing anymore and not being included in the music scene? And would like to see the venues collapse.

Lady Rock · Post by **Lady Rock** » Monday Apr 10, 2006

"Hey We Set a record Third In The State Last Year

So Lets Try Better This Year And Be Number One"

First, if you are talking about the above statement being "disruptive crap", I really don't understand why? Referring to being number one was meant to be a boost in the idea that being loud is a good thing, and not to give up~ but then again, how gazoo has been constantly treated in here, I can see where and how his words would end up being twisted. What does "not" being a DJ have to do with having a vested interest? We pay to go see these bands, of course it's a vested interest. If they have no where to play, how is anyone going to go see them? As far as being a "troll", he can't get on here for two seconds and say anything, that he isan't getting pushed around and treated like crap. Are you telling me that if you are not a band member, there is no room at the Inn? The remark about fighting City Hall is due to the fact the people that the letters are going to are the same people that are trying to tear it down. City Hall doesn't listen to what any one has to think or say! It's not just about bands and band members, It's all about the power, control and money running Altoona and this area that want it out~!
We are none of the above. I can't believe that no one person can give him any more credit than that!

Lady Rock · Post by **Lady Rock** » Monday Apr 10, 2006

ToonaRockGuy wrote:With the above post sealing the deal, I hereby nominate Gazoo for official Rockpage "TROLL" status. Votes shall be cast, ballots counted, and Gazoo told to go crawl back under a rock. Do I hear a second to the motion so tabled?

and this isan't considered "disruptive crap"? I take it that this was necessary and just friendly conversation?

YankeeRose · Post by **YankeeRose** » Monday Apr 10, 2006

gazoo17 wrote:Hey We Set a record Third In The State Last Year

So Lets Try Better This Year And Be Number One

The above response was in regard to Lonewolf's post about noise violations. Maybe I don't understand, for I can't see how being number one in the state for noise violations would be a good thing when it's causing venues to go out of business.

I hate to be a broken record,

but to paraphrase what someone else said recently, if you're not part of the solution, just maybe you're part of the problem.

Pardon me, but I also have to add that many of us know Toona and will back Toona up.

Including, it would seem, the Moderator.

Post by **Jim Price** » Monday Apr 10, 2006

lonewolf wrote:

…the Altoona office is a very close 3rd in the state for noise violations, even beating Pittsburgh 4:1

gazoo17 wrote:

Hey We Set a record Third In The State Last Year

So Lets Try Better This Year And Be Number One

Lady Rock wrote:

Referring to being number one was meant to be a boost in the idea that being loud is a good thing, and not to give up

As others who have posted, I interpreted Gazoo’s comment to imply that we should be first in the state in noise violations, as in being prosecuted more for noise. My bad if my interpretation was wrong...

But even being first in noise – if this is what Gazoo was intending – isn’t a good thing. The purpose of this campaign is not for musicians and venues to be defiant and be noisy for the sake of making noise; we want to work with the legislators to arrive at a revised noise provision of the Liquor Code, that musicians and club owners can work with and comply with.

In starting this current effort, we recognize that bars and venues exist that do violate reasonable noise practices, and we don’t argue with enforcement of noise laws with regards to blatant violators. The current noise provision of the Liquor Code doesn’t recognize a difference between a “reasonable” noise level and an excessive noise level; it just states that if a loudspeaker can even be heard outside of a licensed venue, that venue is in violation. When you consider that if you stand outside of somebody’s home in the evening, you can probably hear the average television or stereo speaker outside the front door. During the summer evenings, you will likely hear somebody’s booming car stereo speakers from several blocks away. And if you live in a good chunk of Altoona, you will likely hear the sounds coming from Blair County Ballpark. Or sounds from the railroad. Why should liquor-licensed businesses whose livelihoods include music and entertainment playing through loudspeakers be held to a much more stringent noise standard than everybody else?

As far as “fighting City Hall,” too many problems in this state exist because people accept that they can’t fight “City Hall.” Defeatism accomplishes nothing. You don’t succeed if you don’t try. This current effort is the most organized effort we have put forth to take on this issue, and the early indications are that we have a real chance to achieve some success. We need everybody on board. This is an issue that impacts anybody whose lives and livelihoods are touched by nightlife and liquor-licensed establishments. Musicians, bands, deejays, karaoke, bar and wait staff, support businesses like music stores, sound companies, amusement and snack/cigarette vendors, and people who just want to be able to enjoy entertainment involving loudspeakers at a neighborhood bar or venue. The PACAG has started the ball rolling on this; let’s keep building momentum!

Excuse me for the soapbox, but this thread was started in the spirit of a concerted effort at accomplishing something positive for the music scene and its future. I’d like to see the effort remain focused and moving forward; now is not the time for defeatism and accepting that we don’t have the power or ability to change a situation for the better.

Having said that, I’m taking a stack of letters over to Pellegrine’s this evening, and should hopefully have a few more signed letters to contribute to the effort by the time I leave…

songsmith · Post by **songsmith** » Tuesday Apr 11, 2006

Let's not forget the "you can't fight City Hall" comment, either. How is that construed as optimistic or positive?
Look at the pattern:

The Not-So-Great Gazoo posts some inane piece of info, assuming that he's part of the live music scene. When politely told that DJ's compete with real, live musicians, he could cut his losses, but instead decides that "throwing stones at a hornet's nest" would show people his worth. This brings about 20 veteran local musicians into the fray. Suddenly his girlfriend feels he cannot defend himself against such perceived wrong against her man. She is slightly more articulate, but equally wrong. Her attitude, "yeah, he lives with ME, what are you gonna do about it?" ...well, it has zero to do with anything, as we really don't care who cohabitates with whom. At some point, another family member joins in to "help."

Gazoo's posts are meant to disrupt. Even a child can read that into his posts. He has sour grapes that musicians can band together to get things done. There is no local DJ organization, which, given the prevailing attitude, is no surprise. Maybe this is why he's out on the porch looking in.--------->JMS

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Tuesday Apr 11, 2006

Lady Rock wrote:
The remark about fighting City Hall is due to the fact the people that the letters are going to are the same people that are trying to tear it down.

Umm, no. The PLCB is a seperate organization that's almost a self-governing body. The letters are going to a higher authority that doesn't have an interest in making money off of noise fines: Senators. The fact that you say that shows how ignorant you are about the issue at hand.

This movement could very well fail. But I'd rather try and fail than do nothing at all and bitch about it.

Then again, some people are leaders and some people are...well...

Post by **Jim Price** » Tuesday Apr 11, 2006

From my radio prep service this afternoon, about things that happened on this date in music history:

"2005 - Mick Fleetwood and the band the Eagles Of Death Metal play the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame And Museum, and it's billed as the "World's Quietest Concert." No speakers or amplifiers are used -- instead, the music is sent to portable FM headsets, which are tuned to receive the broadcast. The event is part of the "It's Hip To Hear" campaign by the American Speech-Language-Hearing Association, to educate people about hearing loss and the damage that occurs at loud volumes, like those at a typical show."

It crossed my mind that if our efforts to change the noise provision of the Liquor Code don't succeed, the above scenario might be the only way we'll be able to enjoy live music in liquor-licensed establishments without problems from the state police.

Lady Rock · Post by **Lady Rock** » Tuesday Apr 11, 2006

Damn straight to the skippy, (with the psych degree), referring to my “attitude”, I eat, sleep, and breath attitude, anger and hostility every minute, but I wouldn’t bore you with the “for why” details. The meaning of comprehension in here is just reading what ever you want into the words anyway. AGAIN, the statement “YOU CAN’T FIGHT CITY HALL” is just a figure of speech. It means that some of the representatives that are being sent the letters are the same ones trying to “clean house”. Just like the methadone clinic. Any idea how many people were trying to fight it because they didn’t want it built in their back yards? It’s too bad that the reps. that they were going to for help, were the same ones that have a so called “vested interest” in the Healthcare business around here and are bringing it here regardless of what the people fight for. Why? Because they like the money that it generates. They don’t give a damn about this area going to shit, or the problems it will bring with it, they see money. When a rehab clinic purposely lies to clients, drops them back off at the crack house where they came from or just drops them off on any corner available, do you think they care? Do you know how much money is generated by bringing people in from Pitts, Philly, Johnstown etc. along with their drug problems. Do you realize that it is one of our reps that is running this facility and that they can’t wait to get them out of rehab, (not being recovered), so they have to come back again and spend more money. Have you thought for one minute that it may not be about the Bands, Not about the band members, not about bars that aren’t sound proof and NOT about NOISE! I bet if you reached a little further, in my opinion you would find that it has nothing to do with noise! Besides, noise is what Warnaco’s warehouse does at 3 or 4 in the morning when people are sleeping. Noise is what PLCB was persuaded to call it. Noise is NOT what gazoo was referring to, it was about being loud when it counts. If being number one means you are tops on the noise level, then show them what “loud” is all about. Gazoo simply meant if they want noise, then give them noise. Like fighting for everyone’s right and choice of pleasurable past-times. I don’t know about you, but I don’t want to go hear a band that isn’t permitted to turn it up past “2” or have to use ear phones so it doesn’t disturb anyone outside either. I don’t call music coming from a band “noise”, Half the people that PLCB “say” are making these complaints can’t hear someone knocking at their back doors, let alone a band in a bar 500 feet away. See they make money off of things like rehabs from out of town, and their power and control in the area gets stronger; strong enough to reconstruct this whole area into exactly what they want it to be. Soon there will be one school, one hospital and their will be no more conflict, confusion or the right to choose. Any idea how many Millionaires there are in this area? Quite a few! Old money and new money, and that money is buying out our right of choices. Now who was it that voted himself a 36 thousand dollar raise because he stated that he couldn’t do his job with out it? Look it up! That’s what I call power! I personally would like to see all the head hunters on here take this all the way to the top, and not to make compromise and agree to come to a happy medium on how loud it can get. There shouldn’t be no compromising when it comes to being an entertainer and having a place to entertain. It is a profession that is being denied the benefits when other people and issues in this area are being catered to. But only because the entertainer benefits are not going back into this community, that is why they are trying to shut all of it down permanently. If you compromise and agree to a happy medium, they are just going to come right back at you again, till they get it just the way they want it. It’s not that you can’t fight City Hall, it’s that the fight will not end, no one said not to give it all you got and fight anyway.

It was stated: “Gazoo's posts are meant to disrupt. Even a child can read that into his posts.” Then stop acting like a child and read what is means, not what you think it means! Seems to me the only one disrupting anything is the PLCB and the people controlling what is said and done and the head hunters that want to piss on conversation.

If you want to fight and piss on something, do it about something a little less trivial than how much you can psycho analyze someone or twist someone’s words to find idiotic patterns out of something you don’t understand, instead try just asking him to explain himself or elaborate on his thinking. Try looking at the whole picture instead of some psycho retards pattern of influence trying desperately to make him self look more intelligent than he really is. What, you think that our reps are not in the pocket of the state reps and that they don’t support their positions, or that PLCB can’t be manipulated? Yes, some people are leaders, and then some are just going out of their way to be an ass to the small fry.

Banned · Post by **Banned** » Tuesday Apr 11, 2006

Wow, when you get down off of your soapbox, pat gazoo on the head for us. He is a good puppy, who just happens to post stupid statements in otherwise serious topics.

His remarks were read as disruptive by probably 99% of the readers, so post clearer in the future.

But I will never give you any credit in past battles of DJs competing with bands in local bars. Only in a DJ forum, will you win that argument.

But unless this attempt to have our legall representatives look into a PLCB run rampant in this area works, there will be no places for bands or DJs.

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Tuesday Apr 11, 2006

Lady Rock wrote:Damn straight to the skippy, (with the psych degree), referring to my “attitude”, I eat, sleep, and breath attitude, anger and hostility every minute, but I wouldn’t bore you with the “for why” details. The meaning of comprehension in here is just reading what ever you want into the words anyway. AGAIN, the statement “YOU CAN’T FIGHT CITY HALL” is just a figure of speech. It means that some of the representatives that are being sent the letters are the same ones trying to “clean house”. Just like the methadone clinic. Any idea how many people were trying to fight it because they didn’t want it built in their back yards? It’s too bad that the reps. that they were going to for help, were the same ones that have a so called “vested interest” in the Healthcare business around here and are bringing it here regardless of what the people fight for. Why? Because they like the money that it generates. They don’t give a damn about this area going to shit, or the problems it will bring with it, they see money. When a rehab clinic purposely lies to clients, drops them back off at the crack house where they came from or just drops them off on any corner available, do you think they care? Do you know how much money is generated by bringing people in from Pitts, Philly, Johnstown etc. along with their drug problems. Do you realize that it is one of our reps that is running this facility and that they can’t wait to get them out of rehab, (not being recovered), so they have to come back again and spend more money. Have you thought for one minute that it may not be about the Bands, Not about the band members, not about bars that aren’t sound proof and NOT about NOISE! I bet if you reached a little further, in my opinion you would find that it has nothing to do with noise! Besides, noise is what Warnaco’s warehouse does at 3 or 4 in the morning when people are sleeping. Noise is what PLCB was persuaded to call it. Noise is NOT what gazoo was referring to, it was about being loud when it counts. If being number one means you are tops on the noise level, then show them what “loud” is all about. Gazoo simply meant if they want noise, then give them noise. Like fighting for everyone’s right and choice of pleasurable past-times. I don’t know about you, but I don’t want to go hear a band that isn’t permitted to turn it up past “2” or have to use ear phones so it doesn’t disturb anyone outside either. I don’t call music coming from a band “noise”, Half the people that PLCB “say” are making these complaints can’t hear someone knocking at their back doors, let alone a band in a bar 500 feet away. See they make money off of things like rehabs from out of town, and their power and control in the area gets stronger; strong enough to reconstruct this whole area into exactly what they want it to be. Soon there will be one school, one hospital and their will be no more conflict, confusion or the right to choose. Any idea how many Millionaires there are in this area? Quite a few! Old money and new money, and that money is buying out our right of choices. Now who was it that voted himself a 36 thousand dollar raise because he stated that he couldn’t do his job with out it? Look it up! That’s what I call power! I personally would like to see all the head hunters on here take this all the way to the top, and not to make compromise and agree to come to a happy medium on how loud it can get. There shouldn’t be no compromising when it comes to being an entertainer and having a place to entertain. It is a profession that is being denied the benefits when other people and issues in this area are being catered to. But only because the entertainer benefits are not going back into this community, that is why they are trying to shut all of it down permanently. If you compromise and agree to a happy medium, they are just going to come right back at you again, till they get it just the way they want it. It’s not that you can’t fight City Hall, it’s that the fight will not end, no one said not to give it all you got and fight anyway.

It was stated: “Gazoo's posts are meant to disrupt. Even a child can read that into his posts.” Then stop acting like a child and read what is means, not what you think it means! Seems to me the only one disrupting anything is the PLCB and the people controlling what is said and done and the head hunters that want to piss on conversation.

If you want to fight and piss on something, do it about something a little less trivial than how much you can psycho analyze someone or twist someone’s words to find idiotic patterns out of something you don’t understand, instead try just asking him to explain himself or elaborate on his thinking. Try looking at the whole picture instead of some psycho retards pattern of influence trying desperately to make him self look more intelligent than he really is. What, you think that our reps are not in the pocket of the state reps and that they don’t support their positions, or that PLCB can’t be manipulated? Yes, some people are leaders, and then some are just going out of their way to be an ass to the small fry.

Sociologists working from the symbolic perspective would say that this post represents Western Civilization's downward decline of anti-bean tendencies. Though conflict theorists believe that these types of posts are a result of those with less beans attacking those who hold the majority of beans. Ahh beans, that little fruit causes so much hatred in this world. But beans are universal.