Does transparency truely exist?

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Tuesday Apr 04, 2006

When I went to the Half-Tempted jam on Saturday, I got to play through the rig that Big Jim had up on stage (which sounded great, BTW): A G-K head, a G-K Backline series 410, and an Ampeg 115. The first thing I noticed was how colored the rig made my tone. That's not an objectively good or bad thing, - as I said, the rig sounded great - but I found it interesting that I didn't sound like myself.

I never realized just how transparent my rig really is. My cabinets cut some of my highs, but for the most part, what I'm hearing on stage is what is coming through the FOH. But does true transparency really exist? Right now, the big trend with the boutique bass cab manufacturers like Epifani and EA is to make boxes with the flatest possible reponse. Even tube amps are being advertised as being transparent and hi-fi. But it's been in my experience that it's impossible to have an entirely uncolored tone. Everything in the signal chain is going to add some coloration to the overall sound. I've found that solid-state power amps, which are suppose to be transparent, do in fact color one's sound.

old sKool and I got talking the other night about adding too many variables to a signal chain. Sometimes guys start adding so many toys to their chain that they lose the timbre of the two most important things in their signal: the guitar and the amp. I guess what I'm saying is that a cheap guitar through a cheap amp is still going to sound cheap, even if there's still a full 12-space rack of gizmos running in front of it. Also, I notice that a lot of guys don't take the time to eliminate noise from their rigs. I've gone through great pains to make my rig as quiet as possible, especially the signal going to the FOH. I've eliminated it all with the exception of the highest frequencies that usually aren't even cross-over anyways. But I plan on eventually gating those of eliminating them at the input-level if possible.

Anyhoo, what do you all think about this?

Big Jim · Post by **Big Jim** » Tuesday Apr 04, 2006

Interesting comments.

For the record, the entire rig I used was Billy Bandito's (from the show there the night before...nice set-up) and I basically plugged in, tweaked two of four eq knobs on the amp, and played. The first thing Zilly told me at souncheck was to turn my stage volume down...lol. Did you have a chance to mess with the knobs or anything else? You would have been more than welcome to. I don't do a whole lot of that.

As far as colored sound, I suppose you could get as technical as strings, pickups, eq on the guitar, amp settings, speaker, cabinet, maybe even the room you're in. I know what you're saying. You can probably "dial in" the most pure sound each amp is capable of and then compare rigs side by side.

We all know that Zilly is one of the best behind the board (we heard great comments), so he'll fix anything that is less than the ultimate (even if he has to tweak the amp on stage). But it's best to have your sound full & under control. And...the more effects added, the more difficult it gets. Too many pedals with eqs, too much delay, reverb, super-duper overdrive, changes in volume level, etc. can drive an audience (and soundman) nuts by the end of the night (no wonder patrons are prone to fight when the show is over). And all that overdrive or amp modeling can make your instrument lose it unique sound.

Yes, I can be fined for using an electronic tuner (and other "bassist violations") but it's better and quicker than my ears, once we've started playing (and drinking).

And that wasn't noise coming from my rig, that was me playing!!

lol (I know the noise comment had nothing to do with the show, I'm just having fun)

CMOR · Post by **CMOR** » Wednesday Apr 05, 2006

I have the same head as Billy(the 700rb), and I have to say I got it for the coloring. I was running the BBE BMax preamp, which can be pretty darn transparent, and realized I didn't really like the sound of either of my basses. I can say the BBE was transparent since I compared a flat recording of straight bass and throught he BBE. It turns out I was relying on my power amp, fingers(which is good), and my cab for the sound in my brain. The cab's an Acme Low B-4 II with the attenuator knobs centered. As far as effects go, I made sure to get an effects loop pedal a while ago to get rid of all the extra noise from running multiple pedals. It also helps keep me from turning into a tap dancer...one button, that's it.
I always thought an amp was there to color or nobody would say things like "Ampeg" or "Mesa" tone. If I didn't want the color, I'd probably show up with just my bass and a cord.
That's my 3 1/2 cents, maybe I'm an idiot.

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Wednesday Apr 05, 2006

Those are some good thoughts. Billy's let me play through his rig before at Burgi's, and we all know what a nightmare of a room that place can be as far as sound goes. But the rig sounded great on City Limit's stage. It was wierd to play a rig that was more "fat" than "punchy" like how my rig is. The fat sound really worked on the blues jam I did.

I also use a BBE and agree that it's very transparent. But when one is usually DIed to the FOH, the cabinet is pretty much a fancy monitor. Then that may be a good reason to have a transparent cabinet.

Jim, I've been playing around with the SansAmp, and I can get some capital sounds out of it. I normally don't go for the over-driven tube sound, but there's defiantely some applications I could use it for. I'm going to try it out on a gig this weekend and see how it works in a live setting. I'm going to set it up with different EQing, and use it almost as a second amp channel to change sounds in the middle of songs.

orangekick · Post by **orangekick** » Wednesday Apr 05, 2006

I'm against transparency in bass amps. I had a rig that was very transparent for a while and I found myself trying to add things to it all the time. My current rig is great because I can make it transparent if I want, there's a button on the head that defeats the whole EQ section. There are times when that sounds great and certain rooms where it doesn't cut it.

I'm also coming from the standpoint of almost never having a full PA. The places that I play tend to have a PA just for vocals, so that changes everything.

Big Jim · Post by **Big Jim** » Wednesday Apr 05, 2006

That button to defeat the EQ would be a good thing for any amp to allow you to see what your EQ is actually doing to the sound. Probably most of us play out without full PA, therefore we want to add some effect to our sound (rumble, growl, punch, balls...call it what you want).

Have fun with the Sansamp, maybe I'll be there Sunday. How about the Sansamp floor model footpedal? I heard good things and got one. Any other opinions?

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Sunday Apr 09, 2006

I've been thinking about this topic more and more, and I guess that there's no correct answer. Some guys want the added color that certain amps provide, otherwise there wouldn't be people still buying tube amps.

For me, I think I prefer transparency because I want the true timbre of the instrument to shine through. If I play a Stingray, I it to sound like a Stingray. If I play a Rickebacker, I want the uncolored signature Ric tone.

slink · Post by **slink** » Monday Apr 10, 2006

I've been playing through an Eden rig for years now and everybody say's they are best played flat so thats what I do, reason being, I have hearing loss so I don't tweak well.

People say Eden has a warm or fat sound but with the EQ flat it seems almost transparent to me. Then again that could be because thats all I've played for the last 4 or 5 years and the same bass for 16 years.