Non Partisan Political Post

[byndrsn]

Hey Gang,
I saw this article on another forum I frequent and thought I would share it with you (oh lord - this should be something). I checked on snopes, and the General who was supposed to have written this piece DID NOT write it - but I really like the message it sends anyway.

This is long - but it is worth the read.

Let's try not to start an all out war over this - okay?!?!?

Urbs



I got this article in my email and I think it is worth reading...

This is for everyone to read regardless of your political
affiliation.

I had no idea who General Chong is or the source of these thoughts...
so when I received them, I almost deleted them - as well-written as
they are. But then I did a "Google search" on the General and found
him to be a retired Air Force Surgeon of all things and past Commander of Wilford Hall Medical Center in San Antonio . So he is real, and is connected to Veterans affairs, and these are his thoughts.

They are worth reading and thinking about (the same Google search will direct you to some of his other thought-provoking writings.)

If you would like information on General Chong, go to Google and type
in his name (Major General Vernon Chong). All of the following is
something that everyone should read.


This WAR is for REAL!

To get out of a difficulty, one usually must go through it. Our
country is now facing the most serious threat to its existence, as we
know it, that we have faced in your lifetime and mine (which includes
WWII).

The deadly seriousness is greatly compounded by the fact that there
are very few of us who think we can possibly lose this war and even
fewer who realize what losing really means.

First, let's examine a few basics:

1. When did the threat to us start ?

Many will say September 11, 2001. The answer as far as the United
State s is concerned is 1979, 22 years prior to September 2001, with
the following at! tacks on us:

* Iran Embassy Hostages, 1979;
* Beirut, Lebanon Embassy 1983;
* Beirut, Lebanon Marine Barracks 1983;
* Lockerbie, Scotland Pan-Am flight to New York 1988;
* First New York World Trade Center attack 1993;
* Dhahran, Saudi Arabia Khobar Towers Military complex 1996;
* Nairobi, Kenya US Embassy 1998;
* Dares Salaam, Tanzania US Embassy 1998;
* Aden, Yemen USS Cole 2000;
* New York World Trade Center 2001;
* Pentagon 2001.

(Note that during the period from 1981 to 2001 there were 7,581
terrorist attacks worldwide).

2. Why were we attacked ?

Envy of our position, our success, and our freedoms. The attacks
happened during the administrations of Presidents Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton and Bush 2. We cannot fault either the Republicans or
Democrats as there were no provocations by any of the presidents or
their immediate predecessors, Presidents Ford or Carter. ( some of you will disagree with this, still, the problem is much greater than just individuals and political parties ) please read on...

3. Who were the attackers ?

In each case, the attacks on the US were carried out by Muslims.

4. What is the Muslim population of the World? 25%.

5. Isn't the Muslim Religion peaceful ?

Hopefully, but that is really not material. There is no doubt that the
predominately Christian population of Germany was peaceful, but under the dictatorial leadership of Hitler (who was also Christian), that
made no difference. You either went along with the administration or
you were eliminated. There were 5 to 6 million Christians killed by
the Nazis for political reasons (including 7,000 Polish priests). (see
http://www.nazis.testimony.co.uk/7-a.htm)

Thus, almost the same number of Christians were killed by the Nazis,
as the six million holocaust Jews who were killed by them, and we
seldom heard of anything other than the Jewish atrocities. Although
Hitler kept the world focused on the Jews, he had no hesitancy about
killing anyone who got in his way of exterminating the Jews or of
taking over the world - German, Christian or any others.

Same with the Muslim terrorists. They focus the world on the US, but
kill all in the way -- their own people or the Spanish, French or
anyone else. The point here is that just like the peaceful Germans
were of no protection to anyone from the Nazis, no matter how many
peaceful Muslims there may be, they are no protection for us from the
terrorist Muslim leaders and what they are fanatically bent on doing
-- by their own pronouncements -- killing all of us "infidels." I
don't blame the peaceful Muslims. What would you do if the choice was shut up or die?

6. So who are we at war with?

There is no way we can honestly respond that it is anyone other than
the Muslim terrorists. Trying to be politically correct and avoid
verbalizing this conclusion can well be fatal. There is no way to win
if you don't clearly recognize and articulate who you are fighting.

So with that background, now to the two major questions:

1. Can we lose this war ?

2. What does losing really mean ?

If we are to win, we must clearly answer these two pivotal questions.

We can definitely lose this war, and as anomalous as it may sound, the
major reason we can lose is that so many of us simply do not fathom
the answer to the second question - What does losing mean ?

It would appear that a great many of us think that losing the war
means hanging our heads, bringing the troops home and going on about our business, like post Vietnam. This is as far from the truth as one
can get. What losing really means is:

We would no longer be the premier country in the world. The attacks
will not subside, but rather will steadily increase. Remember, they
want us dead, not just quiet. If they had just wanted us quiet, they
would not have produced an increasing series of attacks against us,
over the past 18 years. The plan was clearly, for terrorist to attack
us, until we were neutered and submissive to them.

We would of course have no future support from other nations, for fear
of reprisals and for the reason that they would see, we are impotent
and cannot help them.

They will pick off the other non-Muslim nations, one at a time. It
will be increasingly easier for them. They already hold Spain hostage.
It doesn't matter whether it was right or wrong for Spain to withdraw
its troops from Iraq. Spain did it because the Muslim terrorists
bombed their train and told them to withdraw the troops. Anything else
they want Spain to do will be done. Spain is finished.

The next will probably be France. Our one hope on France is that they
might see the light and realize that if we don't win, they are
finished too, in that they can't resist the Muslim terrorists without
us. However, it may already be too late for France. France is already
20% Muslim and fading fast !

If we lose the war, our production, income, exports and way of life
will all vanish as we know it and.. after losing, who would trade or deal with us, if they were threatened by the Muslims ?

If we can't stop the Muslims, how could anyone else ?

The Muslims fully know what is riding on this war, and therefore are
completely committed to winning, at any cost. We better know it too
and be likewise committed to winning at any cost.

Why do I go on at such lengths about the results of losing ? Simple.
Until we recognize the costs of losing, we cannot unite and really put
100% of our thoughts and efforts into winning. And it is going to take
that 100% effort to win.

So, how can we lose the war ?

Again, the answer is simple. We can lose the war by "imploding." That
is, defeating ourselves by refusing to recognize the enemy and their
purpose, and really digging in and lending full support to the war
effort. If we are united, there is no way that we can lose. If we
continue to be divided, there is no way that we can win ! The enemy knows this and encourages our division and protests to this war.

Let me give you a few examples of how we simply don't comprehend the life and death seriousness of this situation.

President Bush selects Norman Mineta as Secretary of Transportation.
Although all of the terrorist attacks were committed by Muslim men
between 17 and 40 years of age, Secretary Mineta refuses to allow
profiling. Does that sound like we are taking this thing seriously ?
This is war ! For the duration, we are going to have to give up some of
the civil rights we have become accustomed to. We had better be
prepared to lose some of our civil rights temporarily or we will most
certainly lose all of them permanently.

And don't worry that it is a slippery slope. We gave up plenty of
civil rights during WWII, and immediately restored them after the
victory and in fact added many more since then.

Do I blame President Bush or President Clinton before him ?

No, I blame us for blithely assuming we can maintain all of our
Political Correctness, and all of our civil rights during this
conflict and have a clean, lawful, honorable war. None of those words
apply to war. Get them out of your head.

Some have gone so far in their criticism of the war and/or the
Administration that it almost seems they would literally like to see
us lose. I hasten to add that this isn't because they are disloyal. It
is because they just don't recognize what losing means. Nevertheless,
that conduct gives the impression to the enemy that we are divided and
weakening. It concerns our friends, and it does great damage to our
cause.

Of more recent vintage, the uproar fueled by the politicians and media
regarding the treatment of some prisoners of war, perhaps exemplifies
best what I am saying. We have recently had an issue, involving the
treatment of a few Muslim prisoners of war, by a small group of our
military police. These are the type prisoners who just a few months
ago were throwing their own people off buildings, cutting off their
hands, cutting out their tongues and otherwise murdering their own
people just for disagreeing with Saddam Hussein.

And just a few years ago these same type prisoners chemically killed
400,000 of their own people for the same reason. They are also the
same type enemy fighters, who recently were burning Americans, and
dragging their charred corpses through the streets of Iraq.

And still more recently, the same type enemy that was and is providing
videos to all news sources internationally, of the beheading of
American prisoners they held.

Compare this with some of our press and politicians, who for several
days have thought and talked about nothing else but the "humiliating"
of some Muslim prisoners -- not burning them, not dragging their
charred corpses through the streets, not beheading them, but
"humiliating" them.

Can this be for real?

The politicians and pundits have even talked of impeachment of the
Secretary of Defense. If this doesn't show the complete lack of
comprehension and understanding of the seriousness of the enemy we are fighting, the life and death struggle we are in and the disastrous
results of losing this war, nothing can.

To bring our country to a virtual political standstill over this
prisoner issue makes us look like Nero playing his fiddle as Rome
burned -- totally oblivious to what is going on in the real world.
Neither we, nor any other country, can survive this internal strife.
Again I say, this does not mean that some of our politicians or media
people are disloyal. It simply means that they are absolutely
oblivious to the magnitude, of the situation we are in and into which
the Muslim terrorists have been pushing us, for many years.

Remember, the Muslim terrorists stated goal is to kill all infidels!
That translates into ALL non-Muslims -- not just in the United States, but throughout the world.

We are the last bastion of defense.

We have been criticized for many years as being 'arrogant.' That
charge is valid in at least one respect. We are arrogant in that we
believe that we are so good, powerful and smart, that we can win the
hearts and minds of all those who attack us, and that with both hands
tied behind our back, we can defeat anything bad in the world !

We can't!

If we don't recognize this, our nation as we know it will not survive,
and no other free country in the world will survive if we are defeated.

And finally, name any Muslim countries throughout the world that allow
freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of religion, freedom of
the press, equal rights for anyone -- let alone everyone, equal status
or any status for women, or that have been productive in one single
way that contributes to the good of the world.

This has been a long way of saying that we must be united on this war
or we will be equated in the history books to the self-inflicted fall
of the Roman Empire . If, that is, the Muslim leaders will allow
history books to be written or read.

If we don't win this war right now, keep a close eye on how the
Muslims take over France in the next 5 years or less. They will
continue to increase the Muslim population of France and continue to
encroach little by little, on the established French traditions. The
French will be fighting among themselves, over what should or should
not be done, which will continue to weaken them and keep them from any united resolve. Doesn't that sound eerily familiar ?

Democracies don't have their freedoms taken away from them by some
external military force. Instead, they give their freedoms away,
politically correct piece by politically correct piece at a time.

And they are giving those freedoms away to those who have shown,
worldwide, that they abhor freedom and will not apply it to you or
even to themselves, once they are in power.

They have universally shown that when they have taken over, they then
start brutally killing each other over who will be the few who control
the masses. Will we ever stop hearing from the politically correct,
about the "peaceful Muslims"?

I close on a hopeful note, by repeating what I said above. If we are
united, there is no way that we can lose. I hope now after the
election, the factions in our country will begin to focus on the
critical situation we are in, and will unite to save our country. It
is your future we are talking about ! Do whatever you can to preserve it.

After reading the above, we all must do this not only for ourselves,
but our children, our grandchildren, our country and the world.

Whether Democrat or Republican, conservative or liberal and that
includes the Politicians and media of our country and the free world !

Please forward this to any you feel may want, or NEED to read it. Our
"leaders" in Congress ought to read it, too.

There are those that find fault with our country, but it is obvious to
anyone who truly thinks through this, that we must UNITE,UNITE, UNITE !

[jangel]

Amen!

[grimmbass]

What a bunch of tripe. Substitue the word "Communist" for "Muslim Terrorist" and Joe McCarthy could have given this speech.

And, for the record, Hitler was not Christian but agnostic/Atheist. The Nazi regime, like the commies, cracked down on religion.

[cruseaudio]

Great letter.

One reason this country hasn't united against our present enmy is becuase of our "political correctiveness" movement. It is impossable to be that nice to so many ethnic groups and not expect major sacrifices from all ethnic groups, at least for now. We are a melting pot of EVERY race and religion in the world.

That IS their problem with us. They think that THEY are the only race allowed to exist.

Sorry got a little off topic there.

As far as being a presidents fault? come on, it never was an issue of wether they liked a particular guy or not. They hate all of us.

One problem I see that contributes to the disillusion of our latest fight with them is the fact that we aren't being told the whole truth about the situation.

I am sure in past US governments that the same kind of lies and bullshit happened and this is nothing new, but the fact that the media and technology has come of age makes it harder to do anything without it being on the news less than an hour later.

I am not a dooms-dayist, but I do think that if this doesn't get resolved on a global level soon that it will start the LAST war.

I know some people who fought over there and it is a wasteland, and we should be there, but we need to do it right. Fuck being PC! I wanna be safe. Cause you won't even have the right to be opressed if your dead.

Of course if your dead you won't care anyway

I agree with Carlos Mencia sayin that every race has had to pay it's dues to become part of the American culture, now it is just the Muslims turn. Think of it as your being hazed into the biggest, coolest frat in the world.

It is just a metal detector it won't steal your soul We DO need some profiling, it sucks, but it has to happen. It is not OUR fault that this group of people have to terrorize all these countries, but if they are the ones doing it then aren't they profiling themselves?

The terrorist muslum groups are hoping we stick to our PC policies, it helps them kill us easier. They have no respect for anything, even their own people, especially the ones who live here.

[Banned]

What a bunch of tripe. Substitue the word "Communist" for "Muslim Terrorist" and Joe McCarthy could have given this speech.

And, for the record, Hitler was not Christian but agnostic/Atheist. The Nazi regime, like the commies, cracked down on religion.

If Joe McCarthy had written this, he would be correct, just as he was correct in the 50's. All of the Hollywood elites that Joe McCarthy said were communists, WERE communists. Joe was right, its just that the left wing media hated him and destroyed him in the press.

But liberals would have no problems with communists anyway. They seem to have no problem with Muslim terrorists today. They seem to spend a good amount of energy saying there is no terrorist threat.

Just who killed 3000 American citizens on 9/11?


Another interesting point is that the Nazi party was the National Socialist Party. They cracked down on religion in Europe in the 30' and 40's. Kinda like the socialist liberals today, sueing anyone who mentions something Christianin a school today (while many schools are now teaching the Koran, so we can understand why we make them so mad at us)

[RobTheDrummer]

What a bunch of tripe. Substitue the word "Communist" for "Muslim Terrorist" and Joe McCarthy could have given this speech.

And, for the record, Hitler was not Christian but agnostic/Atheist. The Nazi regime, like the commies, cracked down on religion.

Yea just like left wing groups like the ACLU....crack down on religion...we don't want God to be a part of our country, although it was the belief of God that this country was founded and established.

[RobTheDrummer]

Undercover joe wrote:
But liberals would have no problems with communists anyway. They seem to have no problem with Muslim terrorists today. They seem to spend a good amount of energy saying there is no terrorist threat.

Just who killed 3000 American citizens on 9/11?


The funny thing is, if you go after Muslims, the liberals scream "racial profiling" but who was the first group that was crying about UAE owning and running some ports? Hmm, it was Chuck Schumer, mr. liberal himself "racial profiling" against it just because UAE is an Arab country. Not the fact that they are one of our greatest allies in the terrorism front. Why burn bridges with an Arab country, just because they are Arab? We need their support, and how are we gonna get that if we drop them because they are Arabs? Smooth move....

[f.sciarrillo]

Of course the liberals are crying. They are to endowed in their egos to care about any of the citizens. Groups like the ACLU are the biggest joke this country has every seen. They are more sue happy than anything. Bunch of wankers. They suck, just like the RIAA and MPAA. All they are trying to do is deprive every American citizen of their rights.

[byndrsn]

First - I want to say that I agree with every statement made here so far - except for Kent's.

Secondly, I would like to reiterate that this is supposed to be a "non-partisan" post. I do not like the liberal’s agenda anymore than a lot of you do, but the main context of the letter was not for us to declare a side with political parties. Instead, (in my opinion) it is meant for us to try to unite and break down the barriers that our enemies are hoping we stand behind.

Kent - I agree with you about Hitler - but other than that - this piece is not a bunch of tripe. This country needs a fucking wake up call!! We need to realize that the threat is real. We need to get rid of the PC doctrine. We need to band together. We need rid ourselves of the bleeding hearts and realize what the reality really is.

Personally, I am tired of arguing about the politically nature of this country. However, I am ready to defend the values that this country was started for.

We can all live in our delusional states - or we can come to some agreement that eventually (sooner or later) this country is in for a world of hurt. And as long as we keep telling ourselves that it can't happen to us, or as long as we believe everything the media tells us or as long as we are not ready to give up our PC view of things - then things are only going to continue to get worse.

[RobTheDrummer]

I'm also glad the Patriot Act was re-instated. Remember all the libs bitching about that and how you are gonna be watched by big brother? Oh yea, I've been harassed so much from that....I can't tell you how many of my freedoms have been encroached....

[byndrsn]

I'm also glad the Patriot Act was re-instated. Remember all the libs bitching about that and how you are gonna be watched by big brother? Oh yea, I've been harassed so much from that....I can't tell you how many of my freedoms have been encroached....

[f.sciarrillo]

I'm also glad the Patriot Act was re-instated. Remember all the libs bitching about that and how you are gonna be watched by big brother? Oh yea, I've been harassed so much from that....I can't tell you how many of my freedoms have been encroached....

Exactly, I fully 100% with out a doubt, and emphatically agree with the Patriot Act.

[slink]

Byndrsn , I have stayed away from plolitcal issues on this page because it always comes down to a lot of BS on both sides, but I have to agree with what you printed here. I just hope its not to late for the USA.

[Banned]

I agree that the Patriot Act is a very well-thought out piece of legislation. As a conservative, I am an advocate for small government, though it's only small government for fiscal issues. I want the government out of my checkbook; it's welcome in all other aspects of my personal life.

Keep the government out of my paycheck!
Keep the government in my bedroom!

I want the government out of BOTH.

[Punkinhead]

The main thing that this article has correct, and in my opinion is probably one of this country's BIGGEST weaknesses, is the fact that this country is divided. It is divided on almost every major political issue and there is no end in sight. Take a few message boards that I have been on as a representative population sample, spanning all ages of people of all types: There has not been more than 5 political discussions in the past six months (of which there have been MANY) that have not erupted in a fight. There's a reason everyone on here fights regarding politics and it's because that's what EVERYONE does.


I really think it's time for everyone to stop crying and stop the division. Just my opinion though.

[Banned]

Punkinhead, this country has always had political differences. When the revolution started, more than half of the population was against rebelling against the most powerful country on the Planet at the time (Great Brittain).....good thing they did not do polling, or we'd be paying pounds to the Queen now.

Thank God we can all safely express our political differences, unlike any of the 25 million Iraqis under Saddam.

[Blain]

What a bunch of tripe. Substitue the word "Communist" for "Muslim Terrorist" and Joe McCarthy could have given this speech.

And, for the record, Hitler was not Christian but agnostic/Atheist. The Nazi regime, like the commies, cracked down on religion.

You criticize it Kent, but you don't offer an alternative. I hear this a lot from the far left ideologues. They'll criticize all day long, but they have no solutions of their own. It sank Kerry. He had no plan. He was quick to bash Bush, but he never offered a plan, a theory, a solution, an alternative, in the war on terror. Not once.

We are in a war with radical islam. It is a fact that doesn't have anything to do with right or left. Get your head out of your politics. If you don't believe this, you aren't in touch with reality. You are drinking the kool-aid.

[jangel]

I want to express a view that is neither for any party but for Americans.
One of the main problems in this country that is weakening us on a daily basis is RESPECT....how do you expect people of the world to understand democracy when they have never experienced it. But our own citizens do not respect our government.....(this doesnot mean you agree with everything that goes on). With up to the minute news available today it is a feeding tube to the rest of the world. People from other countries look at us as though we are unhappy with our form of gov. and would welcome terrorist attacks to rid us of our leaders, economy and the way of life that we enjoy. Im not saying to be meek and take whats handed to us. All I want to get accross is the lack of respect for our president (no matter who it may be) or what party is in it. We as a country have lost respect, for all that is and was important to our founding fathers. We have gotten lost in greed and what is important in this country. We have become so lazy as to not get involved in our communities, state, and national gov. that we have allowed groups like the ACLU dictate to the majority of us the way things are. We have changed our traditions that our ancestors have handed down to us because we allowed it to happen.
we expect someone else to fight for us and when it doesn't happen we say oh well....and then bitch about it. I can go on and on,but I think you catch my drift......We need to show more respect for each other, our leaders and most of all OUR COUNTRY. If we don't no one else will.

[byndrsn]

Well said Jangel.

[Punkinhead]

Punkinhead, this country has always had political differences. When the revolution started, more than half of the population was against rebelling against the most powerful country on the Planet at the time (Great Brittain).....good thing they did not do polling, or we'd be paying pounds to the Queen now.

Thank God we can all safely express our political differences, unlike any of the 25 million Iraqis under Saddam.

There's a difference between differences and the division that we have it seems. It seems like the division really keeps alot of things from happening IMO. I'm not really a political person so this post isn't coming from a huge political background like it seems alot have on here. But to me, I don't see anything but fighting, and that can't be good. But then again, like I said, I don't look real hard.

[tornandfrayed]

Our Country is a model by which others could want to live.

Ever hear of Sodom & Gomorrah? This was a place of great wealth and freedom but also it was dictated and run by power, greed and corruption.

I love America and I love the principles on which America was based.

I can't stand here and tell you that I respect our government. I abide by laws yet believe that our forefathers are rolling in their rotted flesh.

I love our country, "One Nation, under God, indivisble" but I also believe that the America that produced things like the automobile, the printing press, and the Pledge of Allegiance is gone. We try to take the "God" out of everything and we end up with no morals, no ethics, no strength of community and weak families! This is our demise. I know that alot of people are "devil worshiper's" or Aetheists or whatever but the lack of belief in our country in what is killing us. When we stand up at the pearly gates your life will really be your life.

I have no respect for a government that refuses to stand for something. To stand up and say this is right and this is wrong. They can't do that because someone might be offended. God forbid we offend anyone.

I generally don't post on the political topics anymore because it does not accomplish anything. I was told long ago that if you want to make a difference you have to stand up and get shit done. That's what I try to do.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Country and I will always stand up for my government but I guess my gov would have to make strides to change a lot of people's minds about their motivation to re affirm the respect aspect of the whole thing....

I have also heard it said that anyone who would make a great Political Leader would never be a politician...

[grimmbass]

The brevity of my post was for two reasons:

1. Generally, political posts on this board do nothing but start fights.
2. This subject has been beaten to death.

I'm debating where I should start in this response. If I start, I'm going to get sucked back into this whole pointless argument that will not be resolved in black and white terms on a public message board.

I could start by responding that, prior to the Patriot Act, there were already hundreds of pieces of legislation and two major electronic surveillance systems (CALEA and CARNIVORE) that were already in place, and not used or enforced.

I could also start by responding that the majority of terrorist states just happen to be poor countries where the majority of the population goes to bed hungry at night. Naw, that would just get people started that I'm a bleeding heart liberal. How many countries with decent food, medicine, and water infrastructures are breeding grounds for terrorists?

Maybe I should start by criticizing the choice of our President to go to war against part of the "axis of evil" without considering the true implications of a ground war that would drag on with no conceivable end. Is the best way to fight terrorism is to turn a stable dictatorship (run by a dictator that we put into power...we buy nothing but the best) into an unstable democracy that will breed terrorists because of political and economic instability? Oh yeah...how many of the terrorists who flew planes into buildings came from Iraq? Oh that's right...they came from the United Arab Emirates, the country we were going to sell our ports to. Yeah, I know that the government would still control port security, but any company with entrenched control of such an area still would have an easier time smuggling in dangerous cargo.

Or I could go off on a rant about the fact that our borders between Mexico and Canada are about as rigid as Swiss cheese on an August afternoon. But, no, spending money on a global war against an invisible enemy is a much more efficient use of funds and people than fortifying our own borders.

Hmmmm....maybe I should go back on the invasion of privacy thing...you know that pesky little 14th Amendment....I think our Pres said publically that he wouldn't tap anyone's phone line without a court order....right before he tapped thousands of phone lines without a court order. Clinton lied about having sex with an intern, and that was WRONG. But lying about violating the 14th Amendment is wrong too.

Whoops....forgot about the Muslim thing. You know, how basically this religion has saved most math and science over the past several thousand years and is the basis for much of our modern "learnin'". I personally don't know any Muslim person, but I guess that some of you must personally know a LOT of Muslims. Does anyone here have a Muslim friend or enemy? If someone has firsthand knowledge of the Muslim faith, please speak up.

I don't think that violent protests about cartoons paint a very good picture of a "peaceful faith." But then, neither do people in white hoods burning crosses and preaching hate. The average Christian isn't a KKK member. Point: If it bleeds, it leads, and we'll always know more about the negative aspects than the positive on just about any subject.

News flash: The country was built on the idea of multiculturalism. This isn't a radical liberal statement. The Pilgrims left to get away from the Anglican Church. The Catholics wanted away from Oliver Cromwell and his Puritans. 300 years ago, white Non-State-Religion Christians were "Muslims".

And the founding fathers weren't seeking security, they were seeking freedom. Freedom inherentlly has risks. Pre-war Iraq was very secure, but it sure wasn't free.

I agree that the country seems to be broken, and there are lots of reasons for that. Beyond the threat of terror (which is real, I don't disagree), we've got even bigger things that put us at risk of losing our status as a world power. The biggest imho: jobs. Bottom line: You won't be the biggest world power if you don't export more than you import. You want the country to remain strong? Buy American. The people heading corporations who export labor to save $$$ (even though they're already rich) are the biggest thing that's doing this country in. The consumers who demand $30 Chinese DVD players are doing this country in. The politicians who give tax breaks to companies who are moving operations overseas (btw, this is a bi-partisan issue....both Clinton and W supported NAFTA) are doing this country in.

To have pride in the country, you need a strong economy and jobs. To have a strong economy and jobs, you need to have pride. A vicious cycle it is.

You want to beat terrorism? Strike at the root causes, not the symptoms. Figure out why hungry people in the shitholes of the world hate other countries who live comfortably, eat well, and make decent wages. And let's spare each other the standard liberal/conservative fingerpointing....we already know who is who in that regard, and it will take focus away from the points of debate. State your points on the issues and let's keep the "affiliations" out of it.

There....you got me back in a rant after I posted a thread on how to start a fight on Rockpage. I respect your opinions, and I still think the original "non-partisan" post was a bunch of black and white platitudes.

Looking forward to hearing from y'all...and Happy St. Pat's

Kent

p.s. I'll be hitting the bars in Toona town with Otto tonite...where are you all celebrating?

[rreihart]

p.s. I'll be hitting the bars in Toona town with Otto tonite...where are you all celebrating?

I will be worshipping the Lord with a few hundred of my closest friends in Christ at The Gathering Coffeehouse.

Maybe I'll even see Torn & Frayed?

[tornandfrayed]

And Joe, we all know who killed 3000 Americans on Sept 11th, it was the plan of Terrorists piloted by Ossami Bin Ladin. He then hid in Afghanistan!

Remember? We attacked the wrong country, ooops. Sorry! I will not do this again.

Also thank you Kent! Your post is exhilarating!