A WARNING TO AREA BANDS: STAY AWAY FROM CLUB CAR!!!

[BDR]

ATTENTION AREA ENTERTAINERS!!! I AM PISSED OFF!!! READ THIS CAREFULLY!!!
Now, the story...

As those of you who have had dealings with the CLUB CAR, DAYS INN, Altoona, in the past may know, the CLUB CAR is pretty much the only "venue" in the area who requires you to submit an invoice for payment before a show and then makes you wait FOREVER for a check.

BAD DAZE played the Q94 Halloween Party at the CLUB CAR, DAYS INN, Altoona, on Friday, October 31, 2003. pnEumatic opened the night, the house was jumpin' and things went great...a very successful night all around. Due to their lack of suitable in-house sound, BAD DAZE hired full production for the show, based on the amount of payment agreed to by both band and "club."

At the end of the night, I personally hand-delivered our invoice to the CLUB CAR's "bar manager." The invoice reflected the amount of payment agreed upon, I was told by the "manager" that the invoice would be submitted to their corporate headquarters the following Tuesday (Nov. 4) and the check would arrive the following Friday (Nov. 7). I paid my sound guy out-of-pocket expecting to be able to reimburse myself when the check arrived.

On Friday, Nov. 7, 2003, I stopped by the CLUB CAR to pick up my check. It was nowhere to be found. I was told that checks were being shipped via FED EX, but are now coming regular mail, so the check would probably be there on Monday (Nov. 10). I informed my bandmates that there was no money for the gig yet, but I'd be able to pay them the next week.

On Monday (Nov. 10), I called to see if the money was there. I was then routed through countless hoops and got nothing but voice mail, voice mail, voice mail. I left numerous messages, which were not returned.

On Tuesday (Nov. 11), an individual from the DAYS INN front office contacted me. She informed me that there was no invoice (which I handed directly to the "bar manager" the night of the show) and she asked me to resubmit it. Though irritated, I faxed a duplicate copy of the invoice and then proceeded to call back to confirm that they received it. They did.

Today (Nov. 14), I received a call from the same individual from the DAYS INN front office who told me they were not paying the full amount agreed upon because "the band did not play the entire night." As previously mentioned, pnEumatic opened the evening. While we have used openers in the past, BAD DAZE did not contract the opener for this show, CLUB CAR did. Openers are used all the time by many bands and NEVER in my experience have I been docked for using one, especially in this case, where I didn't even book the opener.

On a side note, the "very friendly" person from the DAYS INN front office informed me that our next scheduled date there, Saturday, Nov. 15, 2003, was cancelled...yes, that's THIS WEEKEND.

I have since filed for a judgement with the local district magistrate against the CLUB CAR, DAYS INN, Altoona, for the amount agreed to for the October 31, 2003 date, as well as for a fair late-cancellation fee for the Nov. 15, 2003 date. As of right now, BAD DAZE is out right around $1,400 with this dump. Again, I AM PISSED.

ENTERTAINERS: Please take this as fair warning. If you have a date with this poor excuse for a venue, please check it. You have probably been replaced by a DJ and have not been informed of the cancellation. If you're thinking about doing business with the CLUB CAR...DON'T!!! Unless of course you enjoy a Vaseline-free rump ride.

If you've been screwed over by this joint, feel free to contact me. I will be happy to help anyone who has dealt with this sh#t to collect his or her money.

Finally, thanx to the PROFESSIONALLY RUN venues who honor their agreements and appreciate the hard work we all do to provide quality entertainment. We appreciate you.

If you've been burnt by this place, please post a reply to this thread so others won't have to go down this road.

Remember...STAY AWAY FROM CLUB CAR, PEOPLE!!! They are screwing people over on a daily basis. It could be you next.
r:>)

[HurricaneBob]

Yep, we dont play there anymore, we had our invoice in a week before our appearance and it still took them 3 weeks to get us a check. We were not screwed like Rob was but the invoice shit and wait blows.

Ahh corporate america~sigh

[Banned]

Here's another vote backing up Rob. Hair Force One experienced the same "disappearing check/invoice of mystery" situation at Club Car. This venue seemed to show a lot of promise at first, too. Looks like there's one less place for local bands to play now.

[byndrsn]

We submitted our invoice on Oct. 13 and played the Club Car the 24th. When we were done.... no $$$$!! I called Monday.... and got the runaround. I heard all the same shit and have been pushed through all tha same voice mails. I even asked the girl I was talking to on the phone if there was a number I could call at the corporate office. She said no. I said "so, there's no corporate office?" She says... "yeah, there is, but no number for you to call! Thanks for calling the Days inn of Altoona" click!

Then I talk to the general manager and he has the balls to mention that they are looking for bands to play Thursday nights instead of over the weekend. Some are saying the'll call, the others say it's in the mail. It's all a bunch of bullshit.

What really sucks, especially for Rob & the guys is the amount of $$$$$. I envy all you guys out there going balls out to jam more than once a week..... this is part of your living. We don't play out a whole lot because of everyones work schedules so when we do, we normally charge a few bones and beer.... this was the first time we invoiced anyone and it was no where near what you lost Rob!!! I can only imagine how pissed you are. Is there anyone, besides the man, that can help local musicians with this situation?

Look at the history and those burned.... Don't play the Club Car!! If you do.... get paid in advance!!!

Keep it real and keep it Rockin' !!!!!

[byndrsn]

Whoops! If we can "band" together on any of this to get some results let me know!

dmyersii@altoonanet.com

Later

Dan

[ToonaRockGuy]

On a side note, the "very friendly" person from the DAYS INN front office informed me that our next scheduled date there, Saturday, Nov. 15, 2003, was cancelled...yes, that's THIS WEEKEND.

Rob, I warned you. Multiple times, via phone call, IM and e-mail.

[BDR]

I hear ya, Kev. The thing is, I had to hear from the venue for it to be official, not the word on the street.

r:>)

[ragztem]

i dont mean to be hostile or anything but i am very neutral in everything, but is this the whole story? i go to the club car consistantly and have never had a bad thing happen there, its a clean nice atmosphere...and pretty cheap...i am sorry you had a bad experience, but did you sign a contract and was it the opening bands fault, or did you quit early? I am not causing problems, just seems very one sided.

[Victor Synn]

It doesn't really seem one-sided at all, considering there are other bands saying they had the same problems. This isn't a flame or anything, but are you in a band? Or are you simply a patron of the Club Car? Because a simple patron wouldn't know the goings-on of a band and the management of a club. Again, that isn't a flame, but I'm just judging this from the way you replied. The cleanliness and atmosphere isn't in question. It's the business practices that seem to be questionable.The whole point is that we, as bands, agree to play in a club for X amount of dollars and the clubs expect us to show up and play to the designated time. If the band does its job under this agreement, the club needs to also own up to their obligations as well. It's just simple bad business if a club gives a band the run around and then decides to cancel their shows on them, especially on as short a notice as it was.

[BDR]

ragztem...that's why I invited others who may have had dealings with this joint to respond to this thread. To protect fellow entertainers. So far, between the responses here and numerous personal emails I've received on the matter, it's clear that we are definitely not alone with the shinanegans going on at Club Car.

I have NEVER had a problem collecting money from any venue until now. It's NEVER been an issue until now. If you are in a band playing the central Pa. circuit, you'd know that you don't sign contracts with 99% of the venues. It's a gentleman's hand shake and you rarely have to worry about getting the money agreed upon. The fact is, this place required documentation, which was submitted as detailed above, so it stands to reason we would get paid. Incidentally, we played until 1:55 a.m. on Halloween night. Jim Price and the rest of the Q94 staff can verify that. We played TWO encores at the crowd's request.

Yes, the place is clean. Obviously they can afford janitorial supplies. As Vic said though, the atmosphere is not the issue. We had a blast playing there on Halloween. It kinda took the fun out of it when they refused to live up to their end of the deal and then turn around and cancel us at the last minute when we called them on their bullshit.

Here's a thought: What if I went to the Days Inn to book a room, got the key and then told them, "Send me a bill, I'll send you a check next month." Think I'd get the room? I don't think so.

Bottom line: We just want our money we were promised and believe me, we have absolutely no desire to bother this dump again after we receive satisfaction.

r:>)

[byndrsn]

Ragztem..... This is positively a one sided situation, The problem is that the Club Car is the one side that has a problem keeping its word, even in writing. Over the years I've had the opportunity to play in many different clubs, bars, social halls, you name it. The closest I've ever come to invoicing or contracts was at The Ferris Wheel.... Freddy writes the amount out on an order tablet, you sign it and she gives the cash.

Noone is questioning the atmosphere or staff at the Club Car. All, (but a few asses in the office) are very cool and treat everyone great. The girls at the bar are awesome, the guys from the kitchen and security couldn't be nicer! The Club certainly was fun to play while we were there and everyone had a blast.

We played there three times, the first two were freebies, one for the Band Discovery Showcase and one opening for the Hurricanes. The last one is the one we invoiced them for..... a week before the show because they said we'd have our cash when we played if we turned it in early. We even used our own sound system because Jerry wasn't available to get theirs working right.

I think that everyone will agree that they had a great time while playing there and looked forward to doing it again.... until the Days Inn screwed them out of the cash.

We played 3 - 50 minute sets. Noone opened for us, and we continued to play when the crowd asked us to play "one" more. We also shelled out our own money all night for drinks because "corporate policy doesn't allow us to give the band draft beer as part of the job."

Basically, we all payed the Club Car to let us play there. Thinking about it reminds me that it's always safer playing keggers and back alley bars..... down home folks that like to go out for a good time and will spend their hard earned money on anyone who works hard at giving them that good time.

Now it's time for a turkey and mylanta mixer!!

Rock on brothers!!

Dan

[Skate Toad]

Hey Rob you wanna hear something funny??? We (Silver Sunday) were booked to play Nov. 15th. The same day you guys were. We had gotten a call about playing that date in i believe late august. And it's pretty funny how i show up thursday(the 13th) to turn the invoice in to find out that we were cancelled and that you guys were filled in that date but cancelled also! And of course not a single 2 minute phone call to let us know. So yeah this place just burned a bad bridge by screwing so many bands. I guess that is what happens when you deal with corporate money grubbing dirt bags! Seems like alot of clubs of late have been screwing the scene over. (money issues, in house sound man issues,and date issues) Guess i might have to start getting written contracts done up. Just thought i'd share our story.
Todd
Silver Sunday

[rickhamilton]

Hey believe it or not, now wearing my DJ hat, i got the same deal. Handed in the paperwork the night of, and almost two months later, no dough!

[tonefight]

Now a Dj isn't going to get any sympathy on here!

Just Jivin ya

getting a raw deal sucks and I think its good that everyone shares the info.

[BDR]

Cool beans...screw jobs for everyone. At least it's apparent that the Club Car does not discriminate. Thanks to all for the support shown so far.

By the way...come to LOUIE's AFTER DARK this Sunday, November 23, 2003, for HAIR FORCE ONE. (shameless plug...lol.)

r:>)

[Banned]

By the way...come to LOUIE's AFTER DARK this Sunday, November 23, 2003, for HAIR FORCE ONE. (shameless plug...lol.)

r:>)

Because you sure won't be seeing us at Club Car any time soon.

[BDR]

P.S. Just to show how many people are affected when things like this happen, I book my sound crew months in advance for shows and they count on that money to earn their living. When we got cancelled a few days before the show at Club Car, my sound tech, RICHIE JOHNSON got cancelled, too. He's out money he was counting on just like us and he can't really book a gig to cover the date when he has two days notice.

Just something more to think about, people.

r:>)

[313]

Rob and all,
I hear that the Club Car's stage is sponsored by Budweiser. I don't know the arrangements of this "sponsorship", but I suspect that Bud pays the establishment some fee for hanging a banner or something on the stage. Anyway, I bet that the sponsor of the stage at the Club Car would be interested in knowing about the treeatment of the bands playing on their stage. Of course where do you start with Budweiser? (maybe Half Tempted Ron would know).

Just a thought... it might provide you with some leverage.

[rickhamilton]

You can fill out a complaint with the better business bureau on line at http://www.pittsburgh.bbb.org . if you need

[Dave]

Rob and all,
I hear that the Club Car's stage is sponsored by Budweiser. I don't know the arrangements of this "sponsorship", but I suspect that Bud pays the establishment some fee for hanging a banner or something on the stage.

I had asked Jerry about what they get for being sponsored by Bud. He told me that they got some signs, that truss that the lights were hanging on and the right to say "The Budweiser Stage". The other thing is that Bud does drink specials and stuff. I think that is about it. Who knows what they might have done in the future if it had gone better.

BTW: Jerry called me on Monday morning to tell me that our check was in. I picked it up in the afternoon. We played there the 1st or 2nd week of October.

[Ron]

Will everyone here help to pay my lawyer fees if I get sued by Days Inn or Budweiser? Hehe.

[KBACounselLeadG]

My name is Paul, I play lead axe in the band Tied-Died. Im more interested in that most of the time, but like many of you I do it for fun-by day I am an attorney. I have heard about situations like these and have been involved in several-and there are things all of you should know.....
As an attorney, I first think you need to be careful. The internet is still a relatively new medium-while your opinion will never be "illegal", the use of fowl or abusive language can and will violate the terms of most internet site user agreements-perhaps you should review even this sites requirements for its users.
Second-I read you were filing 'charges'? If you had no contract, chances are it (your "case") will not go very far. And be prepared-when services like these become an issue and go before a judge's questioning-its not THEY who have to prove they were right-its YOU--and if you failed in any way to give 100% of what you attempted to bill them for, or didnt uphold 100% of the agreement--your 'case' may fall apart, you may be countersued, and for essentially wasting the courts time-you may have to pay everyone's court costs.
What exactly are you suing for? Timely payment? Did you specify payment terms? Does the establishment have its own payment syste,? Obviously they do-they require invoices-which means they process all payments and it may take time to pay-Maybe they have or are paying you and you have jumped to conclusions?!?
Everyone else has gotten payment less one guy on this site noted-just not "under the table" or "at the end of the gig in cash".
Whats different about you?
Be also very careful not to incite here or elsewhere--if the company you speak of finds out-it may be used against you-this is a public internet site not restricted to a certain few-therefore all public posts may be used as a prosecution's effort against you!
If what you say adversely affects their business in some way-theres another story!
If complaining gets it off your chest that is one thing-its considered opinion-however if you have or plan on somehow going to far with internet comments-and it affects their business-this will create an very negative situation if not severe for you.
"$1400" versus $XX,XXX.XXX for them-surely they wont stand by and take that-then it becomes a whole other story!
I have worked in the hotel industry and with many owners and companies-these guys usually pay for what they get becuase it affects customers-what would be the benefit of not paying for something in ANY way?
Perhaps you misunderstood how payment works in their organization?
It seems however that it WAS clear to you that you would not be paid at the end of the night by cash or check. That was the whole reason for submitting an invoic!
What was their agreement-if any with you?
When were you to be paid? Tomorrow? Next Week? Next Month? Was there a trade out for free rooms or food? Did they advertise on your behalf? Was that a trade for your services? Did they sign off on your amount? DId the amount change after you agreed?
Did you pay attention to their payment policy? Most invoices have a 30 day pay period-similar to a credit card!
HOWEVER-you still chose to play there-so regardless-you have accepted their terms!
Did you fulfill 100% of the committment? What about start times? End times? Breaks? Noise? Etc.?
If not-most establishments can not be held responsible for paying in FULL for services they did not receive or affected business!
As far as cancellations go0were you aware of their cancellation policy? If so-what was it? Did you get it in writing? If not-Have they done what there policy is or are you simply upset about the main issue-not having been paid yet???
As a lawyer-I know these things-basically its an age old problem of people wanting paid at the end-whether they were right or wrong.
Many places have policies on the books for tax purposes, payment methods, previous issues with things like bands who no showed, showed up late, changed the agreement of the day without consulting management, overpriced invoices compared to what was quoted, running a beer tab and not clarifying if it was free, tradeouts, damage to property, noise violations, etc.
In many cases Liquor control Boards have come down very harshly on these establishments like clubs, bars and restaurants that serve alcohol-and these types of precations are preventative measures-chances are the establishment will be around long after your band has quit the circuit.
I think you are upset but need to be realistic-your opinion is important to all of us in the playing community-I WONT play there because we like to get paid at the end of the night, BUT OBVIOUSLY THEY DONT DO THAT-SO WHY PLAY?
Perhaps your inexperience has taught you a lesson-I hope its one all of us can take to heart-STICK WITH WHAT YOU KNOW-if it sounds weird (invoices, etc) DONT DO IT-BUT IF YOU DO-BEWARE!
You play there? You have essentially agreed to play in their house under their rules of operation-however quirky they may be! In that case-the cahance of you being treated as a 'vendor' for services based on how they do it are high! If they dont pay at the end of the night-you should have clarified when you would get payment-having read the posts here-it seems its about 2-3 weeks.....hmmmm.
If you wantyed paid at the end of the night thoough-why play?
Perhaps you should call and ask why they cancelled you, why you havent been paid, see if you can get something for the headache anyway and be done with it-get an amicable split from them and move on.
One last note-if you slander or cause libel statements to "People" or them indirectly through their "Titles" (as it looks like may be the case) you run the risk of being sued civillly through each individual-that plus a corporation or business attorney team-you get what I mean-its not wise to provoke-BE CAREFUL!I give you a 10 out of 10 for letting us know the details-it seems a few others were disappointed in TIME OF PAYMENT-BUT they did get paid (less that one guy)----BUT I give you a 6 out of 10 for the possibility of being counter sued and a 1 out of 10 in collecting in court.
Thanks dude-now can we talk about music or what?
Maybe you need to rename the site CLUB CAR? He he.
Rock on!

[songsmith]

Here's a thought, and I'm betting it's the easiest solution.

Mark those dues paid. Cut your losses. Move on.

The benefits of such actions:
No lawyers billing at $XXX.XX an hour (incidentally-- that's more than 5 guys make for an average 3 hour gig around here.)
Nobody can spin it so the corporation is now the "victim," and the "perpetrators" were unrealistically expecting more than is the norm.
Having dealt with the fecal end of the proverbial wooden object, you are now smarter about future dealings. Call it a tuition payment for the School of Hard Knocks.
It's undeniably a small town. Anyone who matters already knows.

I deal with the fine folks at the Clubcar and Days Inn as part of my day job, and find them to generally good people, and enjoyable to work with. Really. I don't ever recall a problem with billing, and payment was always prompt (we bill net 30 days). Lots of good local people work there, and trust me, they work hard. The problem is not the local employees. You fill in the blanks here.
I'm not saying they shouldn't have to pay their bands on time... they should, especially if we deliver the goods. My point is, there ARE people who will bone you over, always have been, always will be. Rob blew the whistle, and in a few weeks, they'll be lucky to book anybody at all. That small-town thing applies here.

Legal disclaimer:This is a post to an Internet bulletin board. All statements contained herein are OPINIONS, based on personal experience. Generalizations were made, and were generally general, General. YMMV. Anyone desiring to sue me should know up front-- I am a musician. Outside of a few Jap guitars and a burning desire, I have nothing of value. It's blood from a turnip y'all.-------->JMS

[BDR]

Johnny: BINGO!!!

Lawyer dude: WOW, those were a lot of words...lol. I think I detailed the situation pretty well in the initial post. I'm sure we're taking the high hard one on this one but as Johnny said, no quality entertainment will do business with places like this when word gets out. As previously stated, I was first and foremost trying to protect my fellow entertainers with this thread.

r:>)