Politics anyone?

INFUSED · Post by **INFUSED** » Thursday Nov 13, 2003

Personally. I don't trust The Dems or The Republicans, It's 2 sides of the same coin.
This is what I think about the whole deal,
go here
http://newsworldorder.tripod.com/index002.html

I haven't updated for a while but there is a Plethora of stuff here.
enjoy

Ed from I N F U S E D

ps
The views on that website are my own.
News World Order is not connected or to be asscociated
with the band I N F U S E D

songsmith · Post by **songsmith** » Friday Nov 14, 2003

Punkinhead... "Paper Dragon"... sounds like an album title, or at least a song title. Grab a pencil and Git'er Done, brutha!---->JMS

FatVin · Post by **FatVin** » Friday Nov 14, 2003

Punkinhead, No Limit, you guys are kidding right? Cause if you're not that's really misinformed. Blaming Clinton for 9/11, C'mon. of all the things you CAN blame ol Slick Willy for you wanna pin 9/11 on him, you guys are kidding right.

9/11 wasn't about the bombing of a suspected chemical weapons plant, it wasn't about blowjobs in the whitehouse or a a shady real estate deal in Arkansas. 9/11 was about Muslim extremists who hate us cause they hate us. If you insist on blaming a US president then you gotta point the finger at Harry Truman. Truman was the US president that began US support of the nation of Israel that's what most of this is about. (there is a biblical story about Issac and Ishmael that goes back further so add about another 3 to 5 thousand years of festering resentment into the mix) The Muslims and Arabs who have hated Jews and been none too crazy about Christians, since oh about the year 570 AD (when Islam was founded) but when Jews who didn't wanna be in Europe after WW2 ( for reasons I think are kinda obvious, can you say holocaust) took over a slip of land in the part of what was then British held Palestine that included the city of Jerusalem (a holy city for Jews, Christians and Muslims by the way) Truman recognized Israel as nation and began US support and Muslims have had a case of the red ass ever since.

US made weapons were used in the 6-day war in 67, We supported the Shah of Iran (cause he was anti-comunist) in the 70's, US troops were in Beruit in the 80's, in the 90's American troops including women were on Saudi soil and that really pissed off the Islamic fanatics (who cares that the Americans were they to protect THEM, that wasn't the point). They are Killing our guys in Iraq now because of all that, (The fact that we removed a guy from power who was killing them by the dozen just to get his jollies, isn't important, I quess)

You wanna blame a US president for 9/11 blame Truman, but it's much more complicated than that.

by the way, I don't trust the Dems or the GOP either but I prefer our bad government to the "Good" government of Communists or religious fanatics. that's just me, what do I know

Post by **Ron** » Friday Nov 14, 2003

I'm beginning to believe that perhaps Salman Rushdie was correct.

FatVin · Post by **FatVin** » Friday Nov 14, 2003

Honest question here, Ron, What do you mean by that, I've never read Rushdie

Post by **Ron** » Friday Nov 14, 2003

Vin,
Rushdie was the author of "The Satanic Verses". At one point, (and probably still), he was #1 on the Muslim "holy hit list" with a big price on his head. He believes that the Koran is an evil manuscript.

Punkinhead · Post by **Punkinhead** » Friday Nov 14, 2003

Vin, I wasnt pointing the whole finger(hence the, theres more im sure) at Clinton but, to deny the bomgings he ordered as not part is incorrect as well...

us siding with israel is a big part of the hatred for us, as well as stuff like just the lack of morals in alot of part of our society, that brings hatred upon us as well....if we were to look at all the reasons people hate us, this would be a long, long thread...

songsmith, my new band, martyrdom, will most likely use the paper dragon...it may even have a special dedication to osama himself in a way

RobTheDrummer · Post by **RobTheDrummer** » Friday Nov 14, 2003

Osama and crew don't like western society...It doesn't come down to a leader pissing them off. They want to kill Americans and turn America into nothing. So, that's why we are better off fighting them over in Iraq instead of here. Another thing is this, they are gonna start more terrorist acts against our soldiers to make Pres. Bush look bad. They know if Bush is voted out, then the Liberal who takes charge will pull the troops out. Then they will have it made, they are playing our own politics against us.

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Friday Nov 14, 2003

I still don't understand what Iraq (or Saddam, I should say) has to do with terrorism. It started out as a war to find illegal weapons, when those weapons could not be found, it was smoothed over with the huge euphemism of it being a war "to free the Iraqi people". General Clark even admitted that this administration was looking for a way to start a war with Iraq and used 9/11 as a means to push it's agenda. Of course, he's playing the politician by saying that since he's runnning for office, but it's still very interesting to think about.

I'm more worried about Saudi Arabia myself. SA is going to stab us in the back one of these days. Guess that's the price you pay for oil though.

Punkinhead · Post by **Punkinhead** » Friday Nov 14, 2003

bassist_25 wrote: I'm more worried about Saudi Arabia myself. SA is going to stab us in the back one of these days. Guess that's the price you pay for oil though.

No truer words have EVER been spoken...

RobTheDrummer · Post by **RobTheDrummer** » Saturday Nov 15, 2003

The war with Saddam has been going on for twelve years, he broke his UN resolution a million times. He knew we were coming for him, so he had time to get rid of some evidence. If we left him alone for the last twelve years, he would definitely have a nuclear weapons program, and I'm sure he would have been inviting anyone that would do something to the USA. I don't like the fact that some people are actually defending Saddam, saying "why did we go after him, and Bush is a warmonger." Even if we can't find any weapons, big deal...anyone with any amount of compassion for people know that the people of Iraq are way better off now than ever. Did you see the mass graves they found? An estimated 300,000 people that died? Women and children shot in the head and pushed into trenches and buried...now that reminds me of Germany and another sadistic leader in the 30's and 40's. So, Saddam had it coming for years. Saudi Arabia is a different issue, but you can't trust any of those countries over there, after all, most of the 9-11 terrorists came from there! But the Saudis are starting to go after them. They realize how important we may be to them...but who knows? I say we drill off the coast of CA and in Alaska for oil, we have enough of our own for 500 years, environmentalists are a pain in the ass!

Punkinhead · Post by **Punkinhead** » Saturday Nov 15, 2003

Does anyone remember the last time we let someone go who was breaking resolutions? remember world war II and the 6 million Hitler slaughtered? reason enough to smack down anyone who disobeys sanctions...

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Saturday Nov 15, 2003

I don't know, we can sit around and come up with all kinds of counterfactual's and all the Bush apologists can say "....Um yeah, but the Iraqi people are free", but the fact is, we were told this was a war about illegal weapons; when those weapons were not found it became a liberation campaign. I for one am glad that the Iraqi people are free and I won't be losing sleep over Saddam being removed from power. But I have to ask if this was a really worth while war. Attacking every country that has terrorist is a romantic idea, but let's get realistic here; terrorism is always going to exist at home and aboad, I for one, don't feel like being at war for the next 50 years. Not attacking anyone for their views, just stating my own.

The ironic part is if this campaign was carried out by a Democrat, it would be attacked by everyone as being a typical bleeding-heart liberal action to help everyone in Iraq, but since it was a Republican it's a nessecary and just war. Hmm, maybe partisan politics are ruining the country.

songsmith · Post by **songsmith** » Saturday Nov 15, 2003

I don't mean to sound stupid, and I do try to stay informed, but could someone answer a question for me? What strategic value does Israel have for the USA? It must mean something... we've been propping up the Israeli military for over 50 years, and we sure as hell take a lot of flak from the Arab world for our alignment with Israel... wouldn't it be much easier to cut the apron strings and let them go on their own? I mean the whole Palestinian conflict seems to be about Israel taking land to show they're powerful, and they answer stone-throwing children with mortar fire and attack choppers. I realize the Palestinians aren't without blame, and suicide bombers will ruin anyone's day, but these bungholes just won't let a cease-fire stand.
So what role does Israel play in the well-being of the US? They have no oil or other natural resources, their per capita income is slightly higher than ours, so no need for humanitarian aid, and don't tell me it's about the "Holy Land," that sh*t was lame during the Crusades, and it still holds no water. Of course, I'm a member of the "fuse the desert sand into glass and let Allah/God/Yahweh sort it out"-school of thought.

----->JMS

FatVin · Post by **FatVin** » Sunday Nov 16, 2003

Songsmith, THAT is a question for the ages, Why do we support Israel? I don't have the first damn clue.

Some people say that it's because of a Very strong Jewish lobby in Congress. I don't know about that one, it's a little too "X-files" for me.

I do know that during the Cold War they were anti-communist and in those days that was enough. Israel has been and is the only Democracy in that part of the world. They do buy tanks and warplanes and other industrial stuff from us that puts alot of bread on a lot of tables here at home. They have THE best intellegence agency in the world, bar none (living in a part of the the world where you have enemies on all sides and not really trusting the west while knowing you can't trust the east will do that for you) They've shared info with us in the past, that's well documented. The US was the first nation to have diplomatic relations with Isreal in the late forties.

The whole thing befuddles me, Terroism NEVER works, The IRA does their thing in Belfast but the Brits and Protestants are still there, The Red Brigade tried to shut down capitalism in the 60's, I think Capitalism just might make it by, The Palestinians have been throwing rocks and sending suicide bombers for 50 years, you'd think they figure out that it doesn't work. The only thing that really does work is what Ghandi did, good luck selling that one to Osama Bin Laden.

This isn't a recent thing anyway. This Arab- Israel stuff has been going on since the days of Issac and Ismael and will probably NEVER really end. Kill em all and let Allah/God/Yahweh sort em out would be a quick and easy fix but you can't do that and keep the moral high ground.

Personally, I admire the Israelis, as a people they are double tough, like the kid who grew up in a bad neighborhood but didn't get mixed up in gangs and drugs, But as to why our government thinks they are worthy of the kind of support we give them, beats me, man.

When I was in the Military (many many moons ago) I learned that there is stuff that goes on in the world that your average Joe is really, truly, better off not knowing about, (like how they make hot dogs) I think that a lot of things about the US-Israel connection are probably tucked away in those files.

Anyway, Why does our Government support Israel, I truly don't know. Anything else I've said in this post is just my opinion.

Post by **Ron** » Monday Nov 17, 2003

A few things to note:

- There are more American born Jews than the Jewish population of Israel.
- They make up roughly 2.5% of the U.S. population, and they vote.

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Tuesday Nov 18, 2003

This has nothing to do with music, but what do you think of these idiot dems trying to get a run at the prez?

Since all the democrat pundits are talking about hillary in '08, it looks as though the DNC has conceded the '04 election before it gets started.

As luck would have it, the economic cycle is picking up, so the DNC won't have that as an issue like they did in '92. The economy is driven by industry, not by stuffed shirts in DC. There is very little a president can do to make a strong economy, but there are a multitude of ways he can wreck it.

I am surprised that we didn't go into a much deeper recession after the pseudo paper economy of the late 1990s when we had the greatest reallocation of wealth since the 1920s. Smart money on Wall Street saw the ever-growing coffers of 401Ks and devised a plan to procure it. Endless IPOs of .com companies lured the unsuspecting public into willingly handing their money over to the fat cats to buy hyperinflated shares of worthless and soon-to-be defunct "new economy" companies. Of course, while this was all going on, the economy was going gangbusters with all the "irrational exuberance" and free floating capital. That economy only lasted as long as the cash in Joe Public's newly opened online brokerage account...

That cash ran out in early 2000, before we even knew who the candidates would be for that year's infamous election. No matter who would win the 2000 election, they were getting 20 tons of bricks dumped on them.

Post by **Ron** » Tuesday Nov 18, 2003

lonewolf wrote:I am surprised that we didn't go into a much deeper recession after the pseudo paper economy of the late 1990s when we had the greatest reallocation of wealth since the 1920s.

Me too. That was the period in time when the Clinton administration was taking all the credit for the "New Economy" while giving away our real economic strengths via NAFTA.

Imgrimm01 · Post by **Imgrimm01** » Wednesday Nov 19, 2003

I will start by saying I am a registered Democrat but I do not always vote that way there are issues on both sides I support and am opposed to. Go with what's important to you that's the ticket. Having said that .... George W. Is a wolf in sheeps clothing I warn you all don't let the smoke and mirrors distract you he is up to no good really he is.. look at what's REALLY going on NOT what they're putting out there for you to see, If it's obvious then it's a cover up for something else. From the very beginning when he got into office without being voted in to the war to destroy weapons of mass destruction, It's ALL SHIT!! Where's Ross Perot when Ya need him?? Joking BUT seriously . W. is not the man he wants us to think he is. Get out there and vote indeed but b4 you do that do your homework know what's going on and who supports who and what. That's my 2 cents..

Bobby Lee

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Wednesday Nov 19, 2003

George W. Is a wolf in sheeps clothing I warn you all don't let the smoke and mirrors distract you he is up to no good really he is..

I'd agree that "Dubya" is a wolf (nothing wrong with that--aaaaooooooohhh), but I can't see where he's hiding behind any sheep's clothing. This guy is not exactly what I'd call subtle OR clandestine. What kind of "no good" should we be looking for?

Imgrimm01 · Post by **Imgrimm01** » Thursday Nov 20, 2003

Wolf that's just my point who knows what the hell is going on that we don't know about? Were being so bombarded with media coverage of Iraq that we don't tend to look any deeper and so they keep us distracted ya know? I may sound paranoid but I guarantee he is up to NO GOOD!!

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Thursday Nov 20, 2003

Just curious, what does everyone think President Bush *should* do as opposed to what he IS doing. It is very easy to armchair quarterback what he is doing and say he is so terrible. Call me an idiot, but I sure am glad we don't have Al Gore in the White House. I am probably the minority, but I think the war is justified and we are doing the right thing. I don't like war, but I think it is something that has to happen.

DW

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Thursday Nov 20, 2003

I would have settled for a smaller income tax cut, about 2/3 of what we ended up with.

Those tax cuts are slated to go away by 2005, putting democrats in the unenviable position of campaigning for defacto tax increases. That was a brilliant political move by Bush & Co. and will pay big dividends for them in the 2004 election.

I expected it to take at LEAST a year before they could set up a government in Iraq. The recent announcement that it would take place in June is not a bad timetable for setting up a government. Unfortunately, the "instant gratification" crowd that believes you can get anything done with a point and click tend to be the ones who are most vocal and way off in left field. I just wish they'd get a handle on these daily guerrilla bombings so that we won't lose any more of our own.

RobTheDrummer · Post by **RobTheDrummer** » Thursday Nov 20, 2003

A few points about Bush:

Bush is a great president and he is doing the right thing at the right time. Getting rid of Saddam is one of the greatest things to happen in recent years, I don't know why people defend Saddam. (maybe the R in front of Bush's name?) Saddam is a weapon of mass destruction himself, he did kill estimates of 400,000 people. Anyone that kills that many and uses gas on his own people does not deserve to be in power and what makes anyone think that someone capable of killing that many is completely innocent in obtaining wmd?

Bush is also doing the right thing in the face of terrorism. He's going after them outside of his own self interests (Clinton was more of a self interest kind of guy, thus he let bin laden go more than once-no political sway..he also bombed an asprin factory that was supposedly a "chemical weapons facility" when the monica thing came up). Bush doesn't really care if certain people don't like him, he knows what has to be done in order to preserve our own freedom.

The war in Iraq is also not as basd as the mainstream media makes it out to be. I mean how many soldiers have died? less than 1000? I bet less than 500... How many civilians died because of 911? 3000 something? How many civilians die of car accidents a year? Look that up! How many people died under Saddam's regime? At least 500,000...well that's enough for now.

tonefight · Post by **tonefight** » Thursday Nov 20, 2003

I definatly agree it was time for Saddam to go and I hope they actually stay and get him this time. I'm not big on the War thing but ya can't just keep letting someone punch you in the back either now can ya?

As far as the finace end of poltics goes, I don't know that we'll ever see a president that can make all the wrongs right. People with money always seem to find a way to keep things rolling in there favor and don't give a shit about everyone starting with nothing.

ROCKPAGE

Politics anyone?

Did I hear Politics ?!

Bush Is Evil !!

point