Age of musicians playing in Bars

badattitude · Post by **badattitude** » Tuesday Nov 04, 2003

My band is going to be playing out by spring but we have a concern. Our drummer,who is very good,is only 15. I was wondering if anyone knew if there is a law stating how old you have to be to play in Bars. There will always be a parent present. If anyone knows of anything relating to this,PLEASE respond on this website so that everyone may know. Thanks and ROCK ON!!!!!!!!!!

songsmith · Post by **songsmith** » Tuesday Nov 04, 2003

Ask Arejay Hale... and don't expect good news. Years ago, you could get away with that, but the Fun Police at the PLCB exert certain pressure to affect certain politicians in certain areas... the short answer is you have to be 18.---->JMS

Post by **Jim Price** » Tuesday Nov 04, 2003

Songsmith is right. You can be 16 to work in a bar (clean tables, dishes, etc.), but you have to 18 to entertain in a licensed establishment. Another part of the Liquor Code that needs changed...sigh.

badattitude · Post by **badattitude** » Wednesday Nov 05, 2003

Thank you for the information. I agree with you Jim that this issue needs to be changed. I feel that as long as there is a parent present,there shouldn't be an issue. Our drummer is very good and learns new songs quite easily. It's like discrimination not letting younger musicains perform in clubs. There isn't many venues for younger musicians to perform at. Thanks again.

FatVin · Post by **FatVin** » Wednesday Nov 05, 2003

It's sad that we have to become outlaws just to play. We recently had a drummer sitting in with us who was only 19 (excellant drummer and good kid by the way) We just lied and said he was 21, nobody questioned it

That's gonna be a hard one to change, the moral majority type people will go nuts at the thought of someone underage at a bar for any reason. These are the people who want to protect us from having any fun for any reason, it's just a shame.

nighthawk · Post by **nighthawk** » Wednesday Nov 05, 2003

what if the musician is playing an all age event. do they still have to be of age?

Post by **Jim Price** » Friday Nov 07, 2003

As long as it is a liquor-licensed establishment, you have to be 18 to entertain on the premises, whether it is an all ages show or not. Kids younger than 18 can be there to watch a show (with appropriate chaperones present), but kids have to be 18 to be able to actually perform at a show.

RobTheDrummer · Post by **RobTheDrummer** » Saturday Nov 08, 2003

What you do, is tell him to grow a beard and then maybe he can play...Because of my rate of puberty, I had a beard when I was 10, so I played and no questions were asked! But in all seriousness, the rule sucks ass, and god knows you can't get served by a legitimate establishment if you aren't 21.

HurricaneBob · Post by **HurricaneBob** » Sunday Nov 09, 2003

Buddy Rich would have said shove it up your ass! ....he did when he was 13, GG Traps the boy wonder!

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Sunday Nov 09, 2003

Yeah, I wanted to start performing when I was 16, but I checked with the State Police and found out I had to be 18. It was a long two year wait. Even then, certain bars would kind of get scared when I would walk in. I had to reassure them that it's legal for me to be there. It never really bothered me being under 21 in a bar. I was never much of a drinker anyways. I'm 21 now, so it really doesn't matter anymore.

re Bobby: Yeah, Buddy was quite a character. I use to have some mp3s of him chewing out his band. Quite funny. For some reason he was pretty adamant about nobody in his band having a beard.

songsmith · Post by **songsmith** » Monday Nov 10, 2003

I have an mp3 of Buddy, taped at a show not long before he passed, where he just freakin' SMOKES for like 5 solid minutes.He was in his 60's, I think. I used to see him when I was a kid, on Carson and Mike Douglas and such, and thought he was the sh*t then, but sorta thought that was because I didn't know any better. Now, many years later, I listen to that recording, and realize just how hot he was.------>JMS

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Monday Nov 10, 2003

Buddy's self-taught also. Goes to show that you don't need to have formal training or go to Berkley to play well. One of my favorite bassist, Keith Horne, is also self-taught and he totally smokes. Hell, I don't even think Jaco had what you would call "formal" training.

Zerohdefects · Post by **Zerohdefects** » Wednesday Nov 12, 2003

I was told that if you had a parent or guardian with you, you could be under 18.

Arejay from Halestorm is I think maybe now just 16, and he has a few years under his belt.

Post by **Jim Price** » Wednesday Nov 12, 2003

The law doesn't allow minors under 18 - even with parents present - to perform in licensed establishments. They can attend a licensed venue with a parent/guardian present, and can work for that licensed venue when they turn 16 (cleaning tables, dishwashing, etc.), but they cannot perform or entertain in a licensed venue until they turn 18.

Arejay Hale had been playing in licensed establishments with Halestorm until the PLCB learned that he was under 18 years of age, and informed licensed venues where Halestorm was booked that they could face legal action if he was allowed to perform. So Halestorm - with Arejay behind the kit - has to wait until he turns 18 before they can legally perform in PLCB-licensed venues (I believe he turns 18 in April 2005).

In the meantime, Halestorm is currently booked to play in bar venues in Delaware, where the laws regarding minors performing are more lenient.

esa · Post by **esa** » Tuesday Jun 01, 2004

Is there anything that we can do to try and get PLCB to change their rotten way of thinking? I don't like this whole "must be 18" thang. If other states have a lowered policy, how can we change Pennsylvania's mind?

byndrsn · Post by **byndrsn** » Wednesday Jun 02, 2004

esa wrote:Is there anything that we can do to try and get PLCB to change their rotten way of thinking? I don't like this whole "must be 18" thang. If other states have a lowered policy, how can we change Pennsylvania's mind?

Lisa,

If anyone here should know about grass roots lobbying - you should have a pretty good idea from the last couple years with ABATE.

If I were to guess, it would be a long hard battle, but I know that musicians could prevail (eventually.)

Changing laws takes time, money, persistence and above all - a very motivated, determined well organized group of people who won't cave in when defeated and who will keep their resolve no matter what.

Yelling, screaming, threatening, name calling, and petitions are not effective - trust me!!

Good Luck,
Urbs

esa · Post by **esa** » Wednesday Jun 02, 2004

byndrsn wrote: If I were to guess, it would be a long hard battle, but I know that musicians could prevail (eventually.)

Changing laws takes time, money, persistence and above all - a very motivated, determined well organized group of people who won't cave in when defeated and who will keep their resolve no matter what.

Well, we got our helmets off, didn't we? I'm willing to put my time into another good cause. I'm not great at finding out the who's and where's, so if y'all are willing.. let's start legislating. Musicians can be as assertive as a bunch of bikers...and maybe, just as scary. Anyone up for the challenge of starting a change for musicians?

DMFJ03 · Post by **DMFJ03** » Wednesday Jun 02, 2004

I'm down.

I'll do what I can if pointed in the right direction.

byndrsn · Post by **byndrsn** » Wednesday Jun 02, 2004

esa wrote: Well, we got our helmets off, didn't we? I'm willing to put my time into another good cause. I'm not great at finding out the who's and where's, so if y'all are willing.. let's start legislating. Musicians can be as assertive as a bunch of bikers...and maybe, just as scary. Anyone up for the challenge of starting a change for musicians?

First things first. You must organize! There is power in numbers. And, don't forget - money talks - that is what the legislative process revolves around: Money and votes.

If you are serious, check out the following link on ABATE of PA's web page. There is a book available that explains how ABATE modified the helmet law. It is geared towards helping other states do the same, but there would be great content that could be applied to other grass roots groups who want to do something similar.

http://www.abatepa.org/abate/legislatio ... 9-2003.htm

Let me know what else you need - you both know me well enough to know that I am deeply involved in the legislative process through ABATE and I'm sure I can help guide you in the right direction.

Hey, who knows, this thread could have historical significance if Pennsylvania musicians decide to "band" together for a common legislative goal.

Urbs

DMFJ03 · Post by **DMFJ03** » Wednesday Jun 02, 2004

I am going to try and ralley people inside of the General Discussion fourm to see how many people we can get to stand with us.

I feel the need to make a whole bunch of noise in the legislative department.

It's on.

facingwest · Post by **facingwest** » Wednesday Jun 02, 2004

I must be blessed in the time I was growing up because I was playing in bars at the ripe old age of 13 and saw more than I needed to about the scene. To me, it was a learning lesson of the do's and don'ts. Back then, we were also playing gigs without our parents being there. Heck, I was making the contacts and booking gigs at 16 or 17. Most of the pictures taken back then, I had a scruffy face so no one would question my age. I don't agree with the laws the way they are now, but I firmly believe that a parent should be there with their child. Count me in to help with what I can.

vlus · Post by **vlus** » Friday Nov 19, 2004

Hello,

I read this thread with interest, since in our band of middle aged rockers, we have one 19 yr old puppy.

Based on the info found here I decided to check the PLCB website for the specific rule about being 18 to perform being ok, but I could not find it.

Can anyone be so kind as to direct me to the specific part of the code that addresses 16 to work, 18 to play?

Thanks in advance!
Vick

http://www.MonstersOfRock.info

Atomic Jim · Post by **Atomic Jim** » Monday Feb 07, 2005

I started playing in bars in the Altoona area back in 1963 when I was 15. All of the other guys were my age except for the drummer who was 13. We never had any problems and never saw a PLCB agent. A lot of the clubs were ones like the Eagles, American Legion, VFW, and so on. I wonder if it makes a difference if it's a private service club? We always had a couple of parents with us, but not everyone's parents were there at the same time. The club managers never said a word about it.

A few years ago my daughter started playing in the band with us, and she was playing in bars when she was just 16. I thought it was all right since both her mother and I play in the band with her. We never got caught, and now she is 27 so it's a moot point, but it's still a crappy law.

FYI: In the late 70's we were on the road, and we were playing in the state of Indiana. Our daughter, who was only 3 at the time, would always go in to the bar with us when we were setting up so we could keep an eye on her. Well, in the state of Indiana it was illegal for a child to be in a bar, even if both her parents were there, and at the time it was still illegal for a woman to actually sit the bar. Women had to sit at tables. Oh well, thats why they call it the Bible belt.

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