Holy Grail - Real Or Not ??

[f.sciarrillo]

O.k Here is another one.

I was watching one of my favorite shows laast night called "Digging for the truth" on the history channel. You should check that out. It si a good show, along with "Decoding the past" and "Science of the bible" makes for some enjoyable tv. Plus it actually teaches you something.

"
In Christian mythology, the Holy Grail was the dish, plate, cup or vessel used by Jesus at the Last Supper, said to possess miraculous powers. According to many versions of the story, Joseph of Arimathea used the Grail to catch Christ's blood while interring him and then took the object to Britain, where he founded a line of guardians to keep it safe. The quest for the Holy Grail makes up an important segment of the Arthurian cycle, appearing first in works by Chrétien de Troyes (Loomis 1991). The legend may combine Christian lore with a Celtic myth of a cauldron endowed with special powers.

The development of the Grail legend has been traced in detail by cultural historians: It is a gothic legend, which first came together in the form of written romances, deriving perhaps from some pre-Christian folklore hints, in the later 12th and early 13th centuries. The early Grail romances centered on Percival and were woven into the more general Arthurian fabric. The Grail romances started in France and were translated into other European vernaculars; only a handful of non-French romances added any essential new elements."

Anyway, the show last night was about the Holey Grail. They went to say that it is the most sought after item ever. And if ever found will be the most valuable object ever found by anyone. They also stated that they now believe the grail was not a physical object. It was infact a idea, or thought.

So the thought of the day is; Do you believe the Holy Grail is real. Or just some imaginary thing brought on by someone in a biblical story ??

Note ** Here is a site with more information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Grail

[lonewolf]

With the Davinci Code, San gréal, the Old French expression for "Holy Grail" is thought to be a typo with Sang réal, which literally means "royal blood" in Old French.

This implies that the Holy Grail is really a label for the descendents or the "royal bloodline" of Christ. Wouldn't that shake up the Vatican?

[YankeeRose]

I've seen those kinds of shows in the past on TLC, Discovery, A & E and even The Travel Channel. The History Channel finally has more than umpteen shows about War? Thanks for the tip!




I've heard of the same thing lonewolf stated... and any way, even if you don't believe Mary had any more children, she had plenty of other relatives - I suppose possibly brothers, sisters, nieces and nephews, let alone aunts, uncles and cousins!




I believe the protectors of the Holy Grail are the Knights Templar. If claimed to ever be found, how would anyone possibly know it was the actual chalice/item? I for one firmly believe in the "Holy Grail" made by Monty Python!

[ToonaRockGuy]

OF COURSE the Grail is real. Why else would King Arthur and his knights have ridden the lengths and breadths of the land, searching for it??
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.King Arthur: Old woman.
Dennis: Man.
King Arthur: Man, sorry. What knight lives in that castle over there?
Dennis: I'm 37.
King Arthur: What?
Dennis: I'm 37. I'm not old.
King Arthur: Well I can't just call you "man".
Dennis: Well you could say "Dennis".
King Arthur: I didn't know you were called Dennis.
Dennis: Well you didn't bother to find out did you?
King Arthur: I did say sorry about the "old woman", but from behind you looked...
Dennis: What I object to is you automatically treat me like an inferior.
King Arthur: Well I am king.
Dennis: Oh, king eh? Very nice. And how'd you get that, eh? By exploiting the workers. By hanging on to outdated imperialist dogma which perpetuates the economic and social differences in our society.

Woman: Oh. How do you do?
King Arthur: How do you do, good lady? I am Arthur, King of the Britons. Whose castle is that?
Woman: King of the who?
King Arthur: King of the Britons.
Woman: Who are the Britons?
King Arthur: Well, we all are. We are all Britons. And I am your king.
Woman: I didn't know we had a king. I thought we were an autonomous collective.
Dennis: You'rw foolin' yourself! We're living in a dictatorship. A self-perpetuating autocracy in which the working class...
Woman: Oh, there you go bringing class into it again.
Dennis: Well, that's what it's all about! If only people would...
King Arthur: Please, please, good people, I am in haste. Who lives in that castle?
Woman: No one lives there.
King Arthur: Then who is your lord?
Woman: We don't have a lord.
Dennis: I told you, we're an anarco-sydicalist commune. We take it in turns to be a sort of executive officer for the week...
King Arthur: Yes...
Dennis: ...but all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special bi-weekly meeting...
King Arthur: Yes I see...
Dennis: ...by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs...
King Arthur: Be quiet!
Dennis: ...but by a two thirds majority in the case of...
King Arthur: Be quiet! I order you to be quiet!
Woman: Order, eh? Who does he think he is?
King Arthur: I am your king.
Woman: Well I didn't vote for you.
King Arthur: You don't vote for kings.
Woman: Well how'd you become king then?
[Angelic music plays... ]
King Arthur: The Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. THAT is why I am your king.
Dennis: [interrupting] Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
King Arthur:Oh, be quiet!
Dennis: Oh, but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you.
King Arthur:BE QUIET!!
Dennis: Oh but if I went 'round sayin' I was Emperor, just because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away.
King Arthur:BE QUIET!! I ORDER YOU TO BE QUIET!!
Dennis: Come and see the violence inherent in the system. Help! Help! I'm being repressed!
King Arthur: Bloody peasant!
Dennis: Oh, what a giveaway! Did you hear that? Did you hear that, eh? That's what I'm on about! Did you see him repressing me? You saw him, Didn't you?

[songsmith]

I like those religious/historical shows... some actually attempt to portray Jesus the way I think he was. I realize after my atheistic diatribes, you'd think I doubt the existence of Jesus... I don't... I think he was a true political figure who actually helped bring about change for the Jews in a Roman Empire that was circling the toiletbowl, on it's way down. While I don't see Jesus of Nazareth as the Saviour of humanity, I believe he was a political force that polarized people into action. I also think he was a Liberal. ::ducks::
As for the Holy Grail, I think it's mostly grounded in pre-Christian ritualism... many groups have similar legends, like a worldwide cleansing flood, or holy people raised from death. I like to believe it's in the tower of a castle full of virgins who like oral sex. Wait, that's just a grail-shaped light. Damn. -------->JMS

[YankeeRose]

Toona, you're priceless!



(Sorry for the brief venture off-topic! I had no idea that was going to happen. )

[cruseaudio]

Thou shall counteth to three and lobbist thou holey hand granade, in the name of the father, that it shall blowest thine enimey to bits.

or somethin like that

silly english kinigits

I fart in your general direction

[ToonaRockGuy]

1st soldier with a keen interest in birds: Who goes there?
King Arthur: It is I, Arthur, son of Uther Pendragon, from the castle of Camelot. King of the Britons, defeater of the Saxons, Sovereign of all England!
1st soldier with a keen interest in birds: Pull the other one!
King Arthur: I am, and this is my trusty servant Patsy. We have ridden the length and breadth of the land in search of knights who will join me in my court at Camelot. I must speak with your lord and master.
1st soldier with a keen interest in birds: What? Ridden on a horse?
King Arthur: Yes!
1st soldier with a keen interest in birds: You're using coconuts!
King Arthur: What?
1st soldier with a keen interest in birds: You've got two empty halves of coconut and you're bangin' 'em together.
King Arthur: So? We have ridden since the snows of winter covered this land, through the kingdom of Mercia, through...
1st soldier with a keen interest in birds: Where'd you get the coconuts?
King Arthur: We found them.
1st soldier with a keen interest in birds: Found them? In Mercia? The coconut's tropical!
King Arthur: What do you mean?
1st soldier with a keen interest in birds: Well, this is a temperate zone
King Arthur: The swallow may fly south with the sun or the house martin or the plover may seek warmer climes in winter, yet these are not strangers to our land?
1st soldier with a keen interest in birds: Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?
King Arthur: Not at all. They could be carried.
1st soldier with a keen interest in birds: What? A swallow carrying a coconut?
King Arthur: It could grip it by the husk!
1st soldier with a keen interest in birds: It's not a question of where he grips it! It's a simple question of weight ratios! A five ounce bird could not carry a one pound coconut.
King Arthur: Well, it doesn't matter. Will you go and tell your master that Arthur from the Court of Camelot is here?
1st soldier with a keen interest in birds: Listen. In order to maintain air-speed velocity, a swallow needs to beat its wings forty-three times every second, right?
King Arthur: Please!
1st soldier with a keen interest in birds: Am I right?
1st soldier with a keen interest in birds: Am I right?
King Arthur: I'm not interested!
Second Swallow-Savvy Guard: It could be carried by an African swallow.
King Arthur: Will you ask your master if he wants to join my court at Camelot?
1st soldier with a keen interest in birds: Oh yeah, an African swallow, maybe, but not a European swallow. That's my point.
Second Swallow-Savvy Guard: But then the African swallow's not migratory...

[Bert|Evil]

I say that the Holy Grail is NOT true!! The legend of the grail started with fictional character Percival and, interestingly enough, had nothing to do with the Last Supper of Christ. Word of mouth and incentive to support the faith in the Crusades fueled this legend initially.

The Priory of Sion, in reality, was comparable to that of the Third Reich…. They just never achieved much! The "blood line" list, which included Da Vinci and that guy whose name shows up in today's Harry Potter stories, was a planted prop.

Although the historical events are largely true, the Holy Grail does not exist. Of course, you all knew that I can never resist the chance to use a Monty Python quote:

King Arthur: I am your king.
Woman: Well I didn't vote for you.
King Arthur: You don't vote for kings.
Woman: Well how'd you become king then?
[Angelic music plays... ]
King Arthur: The Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. THAT is why I am your king.
Dennis: [interrupting] Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
Dennis: Oh, but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you.
Dennis: Oh but if I went 'round sayin' I was Emperor, just because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away.
Dennis: Come and see the violence inherent in the system. Help! Help! I'm being repressed!
King Arthur: Bloody peasant!
Dennis: Oh, what a giveaway! Did you hear that? Did you hear that, eh? That's what I'm on about! Did you see him repressing me? You saw him, Didn't you?

[Bert|Evil]

Ahhh, Toona beat me this time!! He's the son of a window dresser!

[f.sciarrillo]

Why did I know that monty python would come up in this thread lol ... Anyway, So I guess it is safe to say that most don't believe it's real then ..

[FretBored]

Why did I know that monty python would come up in this thread lol ... Anyway, So I guess it is safe to say that most don't believe it's real then ..

No I don't I beleive it. This stuff on TV is just there to entertain you. I don't take it to seriously. Where is Noah's Arc?

[f.sciarrillo]

Why did I know that monty python would come up in this thread lol ... Anyway, So I guess it is safe to say that most don't believe it's real then ..

No I don't I beleive it. This stuff on TV is just there to entertain you. I don't take it to seriously. Where is Noah's Arc?

That is a very good question dude. If we could give reps, you would have one. They claim that Noahs' ark is on Mount Ararat in Turkey. here is more information about it:

http://www.noahsarksearch.com/

[FretBored]

Why did I know that monty python would come up in this thread lol ... Anyway, So I guess it is safe to say that most don't believe it's real then ..

No I don't I beleive it. This stuff on TV is just there to entertain you. I don't take it to seriously. Where is Noah's Arc?

That is a very good question dude. If we could give reps, you would have one. They claim that Noahs' ark is on Mount Ararat in Turkey. here is more information about it:

http://www.noahsarksearch.com/

And don't forget "The Shroud of Turin"

[FretBored]

Why did I know that monty python would come up in this thread lol ... Anyway, So I guess it is safe to say that most don't believe it's real then ..

No I don't I beleive it. This stuff on TV is just there to entertain you. I don't take it to seriously. Where is Noah's Arc?

That is a very good question dude. If we could give reps, you would have one. They claim that Noahs' ark is on Mount Ararat in Turkey. here is more information about it:

http://www.noahsarksearch.com/

King Arthur Real or Fiction?

[f.sciarrillo]

The shroud is a good one. There is no actual proof that King Arthor actually existed. I guess that would fall into the lines of the holy grail ..

[FretBored]

Holy Blood, Holy Grail' is a powerful example of investigative journalism meme-spliced with religious conspiracy theory, a 'fictive arcanum' whose provocative thesis continues to undermine the Catholic Church's institutional reading of Judeo-Christian history.

[Bert|Evil]

Why did I know that monty python would come up in this thread lol ... Anyway, So I guess it is safe to say that most don't believe it's real then ..

No I don't I beleive it. This stuff on TV is just there to entertain you. I don't take it to seriously. Where is Noah's Arc?

That is a very good question dude. If we could give reps, you would have one. They claim that Noahs' ark is on Mount Ararat in Turkey. here is more information about it:

http://www.noahsarksearch.com/

While most scholars feel that Noah and the Ark was simply a fable of God's wrath (not to mention all of the other far fetched fables from the Old Testament that were borrowed from the Zoroaster faith), there are a lot of archaeologists that feel a seismic shift that was recently found at the bottom of the Bering Sea would represent the tale of this tragedy.

[Bert|Evil]

Holy Blood, Holy Grail' is a powerful example of investigative journalism meme-spliced with religious conspiracy theory, a 'fictive arcanum' whose provocative thesis continues to undermine the Catholic Church's institutional reading of Judeo-Christian history.

It's a good book, but even the three writers differ in opinion.

[f.sciarrillo]

No I don't I beleive it. This stuff on TV is just there to entertain you. I don't take it to seriously. Where is Noah's Arc?

That is a very good question dude. If we could give reps, you would have one. They claim that Noahs' ark is on Mount Ararat in Turkey. here is more information about it:

http://www.noahsarksearch.com/

While most scholars feel that Noah and the Ark was simply a fable of God's wrath (not to mention all of the other far fetched fables from the Old Testament that were borrowed from the Zoroaster faith), there are a lot of archaeologists that feel a seismic shift that was recently found at the bottom of the Bering Sea would represent the tale of this tragedy.

Bob Bllard did a trek threw the black sea to try find existance of noahs' flood. What he found where artifacts of things that were there during the time of when it is said to have happen. As well as fully intact boats from the same time period.

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/black ... frame.html

I watched the episode on National Geographic channel about it. It was really good.

[YankeeRose]

The "Shroud of Turin"...I only ever saw the program once, 3 or 4 years ago, but there was someone who was able to mix together some ingredients and basically reproduce a cloth that was "Shroud"-like. I
also recall an Artist present who said they weren't the same and mentioned "fore-shortening", if that's spelled correctly...the cloth has been carbon dated and not matched time-line wise, as well.
Critics of that say you can't get a proper date from it due to the fire it was involved in and that is very true. "Carbon" from the fire has corrupted any hope of proper Carbon dating. There is simply "something" about the Shroud...do I firmly believe it's the burial shroud of Jesus? I honestly don't know, I'd like to believe it is, but I just don't know. That's where "Faith" comes into play! My belief in "something more than this life" does not hinge on whether we find the chalice/cup Jesus used that may have held his blood, that the "Shroud of Turin" is really His burial cloth, or we ever find Noah's Ark. Those are all incidental. (However, many cultures the world over, including Native Americans, tell a tale of a "great flood" and "a" boat. Maybe there was more than 1 "Noah"?)
One thing which fascinates me from what is considered "recent History", is that Saint Bernadette's body has not decomposed and she's been dead many years. I've seen it shown on shows on TLC, Discovery, et cetera. A movie about her life and the claimed miracles at Lourdes, France, is "The Song of Bernadette". It's a classic movie. I recorded it from AMC a few years back - before they started showing commercials.

[f.sciarrillo]

The "Shroud of Turin"...I only ever saw the program once, 3 or 4 years ago, but there was someone who was able to mix together some ingredients and basically reproduce a cloth that was "Shroud"-like. I
also recall an Artist present who said they weren't the same and mentioned "fore-shortening", if that's spelled correctly...the cloth has been carbon dated and not matched time-line wise, as well.
Critics of that say you can't get a proper date from it due to the fire it was involved in and that is very true. "Carbon" from the fire has corrupted any hope of proper Carbon dating. There is simply "something" about the Shroud...do I firmly believe it's the burial shroud of Jesus? I honestly don't know, I'd like to believe it is, but I just don't know. That's where "Faith" comes into play! My belief in "something more than this life" does not hinge on whether we find the chalice/cup Jesus used that may have held his blood, that the "Shroud of Turin" is really His burial cloth, or we ever find Noah's Ark. Those are all incidental. (However, many cultures the world over, including Native Americans, tell a tale of a "great flood" and "a" boat. Maybe there was more than 1 "Noah"?)
One thing which fascinates me from what is considered "recent History", is that Saint Bernadette's body has not decomposed and she's been dead many years. I've seen it shown on shows on TLC, Discovery, et cetera. A movie about her life and the claimed miracles at Lourdes, France, is "The Song of Bernadette". It's a classic movie. I recorded it from AMC a few years back - before they started showing commercials.

They believe now that the shroud is actually Davinci. Well not everyone, but a few do. They found that the carbon dating puts it around the time when davinci was alive. There ar some experts who say that it is the first photograph ever taken. And that davinci invented the camera. The reason he didn't make it public was because he was afraid that people would think it was evil and burn him at the stake or something. Back in those days things like that happen ..

[HIMfag666]

With the Davinci Code, San gréal, the Old French expression for "Holy Grail" is thought to be a typo with Sang réal, which literally means "royal blood" in Old French.

This implies that the Holy Grail is really a label for the descendents or the "royal bloodline" of Christ. Wouldn't that shake up the Vatican?

i buy that more than the chalice idea, but one thing tho, mary wasn't impregnated through sex, therefore christ more than likely wouldnt have dna, atleast not by our standards. So these decendants would be more like step ciblings (if you believe he had brothers or sisters) and would share no genetic link, same w/ aunts or uncles. it is debatable whether he would share dna or not, but the fairytale of the immaculate conception, i think, suggests he wouldn't. even tho she carried him from conception to birth he was still a divine being so i dont believe he would have "dna". if he did have DNA and we were able to somehow find some reminents of christ (perhaps the shroud of turin) we could actually figure out god's dna. and if we did that, we could transfer it in to binary code and figure out what the real number the guy in the movie 'Pi' was searching for.
anyone ever see the movie 'Pi'? excellent flick, if you havent seen it check it out

[HIMfag666]

"You must cut down the mightiest tree in the forest wiiiiiiiiiiiiith, A HERRING!"

[songsmith]

The movie,"Pi." Really, extremely deep and well-written movie. It's what happens when a gifted mathmetician figures out a number that is the essence of everything. They play a clip from it every Tuesday on Q-94. "If you graft the numbers from any two systems, certain patterns emerge... Double-shot Tuesday, Q-94."---------->JMS