VOCAL YOUTH....WHY ARE THEY SO DISRESPECTFUL

[SpellboundByMetal]

you made some great points, dude.

[Primates]

hey brother, my only problem was with dutch and a few a**holes on that forum. i know there is good people on VY. a few members of DHYB are members of that forum. and their insaely awesome guys. myself and one of their members had a conversation about this. and he was very open about it. i just thought id come out and say that. i do NOT have a distorted view of VY.

[Punkinhead]

Rockpage-

Greetings. My name is Matt Hunter. I am a not-too-oft poster at Vocal Youth. I am also one of the guitarists in The Apparati, a band that has been brought up in this thread a couple times. I felt obligated to post some of my thoughts here. I come with no hostility.

First off, the internet is full of assholes. I'm sure you all know this by now. NO forum is an exception. To generalize that Vocal Youth is 'full of assholes' is unfair. That's like saying America is full of assholes. Yes, we have our share, but that doesn't mean there aren't some good guys too.


"Vocal Youth is pretty much led up by this kid named Dutch who is the lead vocalist for "The Apparati" (normally i would not mention his name, but this is the third time someone has come to rockpage bitching about how disrespectful Vocal Youth is.. so I think it's time you all learned who is behind it, and know.. his entire band is this way - they're great musicians, but they're horrible people..)"

Vocal Youth is NOT led by Dutch, although he is a well known member and long time participant in the 'scene.'

I thank you for complementing our musicianship, but I am disheartened that you think our whole band is constituted by 'horrible people.' As a matter of fact, I couldn't ask for better friends than those I have in this band. Plus, I doubt I have ever met you, so how could you tell me that I am a horrible person?

I see little validity to AtoMikEnRtiA's arguments, as America as a whole is a place where we can freely discuss opinions. By simply dissing the band name 'Stuck in Kaos,' Dutch was not doing some terrible act.
"see dutch KILL: all i said was i don't like their name
Primates6sic6: alright then
see dutch KILL: you don't even really have an argument
Primates6sic6: why did you voice that opinion?
see dutch KILL: because i can
Primates6sic6: thats not a valid reason
Primates6sic6: thats what we call being an a**hole"

Seriously, you can't kill somebody over voicing their opinion. Especially when right after posting that whole conversation, you retort by saying that our band name is the worst you ever heard. That's your opinion, and you can say it, and I'm not calling you an asshole for it.

"These will be the same kids that when they are legally allowed to play in a bar or club, will spit in the club owner's face for giving them $300 to play for the first time instead of $2000."

I'm not sure how this works, as bands like us really don't even get paid $300 for the biggest shows we do.

"The wearing bandannas over your face, the brass knuckles, the whole.. street smart and gangster attitude.. you're from Johnstown.. "

I personally have never seen kids like this at any of our shows.

"songsmith wrote:
it's a real Epiphone


LMAO. I guess it's better than someone bragging that they have a real Squier."

Bashing equipment seems pious and irrelevant.

"I bet that they're probaly all straight-edge. Oh it excuse me; it's spelled xstraightxedgex. *LOL*"

Some kids are straight-edge, and really what's wrong with having a set of values that you abide by? I've never had anybody push these values upon myself.

I would like to end by stating that the insults to the scene about bands not making much money and going nowhere are kind of arrogant; it's clear that original bands do not have as much of a sellable local market as cover bands do. That isn't to say that cover bands are bad, either; my father, Bill Hunter, plays in the classic rock cover band Square One and I find it great that he can go and make money enjoying what he loves doing. I, on the other hand, am into extreme metal. That alone makes my music a lot less marketable on a local scale. However, many bands from this scene definately have potential to go places-The Caulfield Principle, Above this Fire, and The Zimmermann Note just to name a few. Just because it's harder to market local metal doesn't mean you should demean its value.

In conclusion, thanks for reading. Don't generalize, and don't be pious. We're all in this for the same reason; having fun playing music.

-Matt Hunter

No one is demeaning the value man. I've played the scene and there is no denying that TCP, ATF, TZN all kick ass. I haven't seen you guys or played a show w/ y'all but, I liked what I've heard. That being said and those bands taken out of the equation:



Most of the people on here are straight shooters. They won't bullshit you but, they won't treat you like shit for no apparent reason either. I think really, there should be a unity between the two (hell we even attempted that in Martyrdom a little) but, it's got to come from both sides.

Edit, the rest doesn't need to be said...

Both sides need to work together and I am posting this on both places.


This should be locked. It's causing nothing but division in an already struggling industry. Everyone needs to work together and this really should be locked.

[Hunter]

Most of the people on here are straight shooters. They won't bullshit you but, they won't treat you like shit for no apparent reason either.

I felt the need to post because it seemed to me that a lot of the assumptions about the 'scene' were unfounded. For one, the fact that The Apparati are a group of assholes. Also, the fact that we all wear brass knuckles and bandanas over our faces and kick your ass if you aren't part of our group, and right after we kick your ass we're gonna sharpie some X's on your hands and tell you how straight-edge we are. I know that's exagerrated (in jest) but that isn't really what the scene is about, from my perspective.

[Plastered Bastards]

The same thing that is going on in Johnstown,has been going on in Altoona for years.That's why you don't play there and you go out and find another place to play.In the early 90's I was in a band that put out records and toured,all over the US but we couldn't get a show in Altoona to save our lives,all because elitists had taken over the scene and didn't want us to play.All because of jealousy,we didn't play in Altoona.So we took our show on the road playing basements,back porches,clubs,living rooms and firehalls from Mass. to Washington State and back.And the one thing I noticed was that it wasn't only happening in Altoona but all across the country.So we just distanced ourselves from our own scene and did our own thing.All the bands I played with in Altoona pretty much did that except when I was in INVERSION,we hooked up with the B.C.C. and things were good.We played with cool people who had the same ideas we did,but we weren't elitists just guys with a good idea.Just my 2 cents.
I don't know if it means anything.
Cheers!!!!!!!!!!!

[Punkinhead]

Most of the people on here are straight shooters. They won't bullshit you but, they won't treat you like shit for no apparent reason either.

I felt the need to post because it seemed to me that a lot of the assumptions about the 'scene' were unfounded. For one, the fact that The Apparati are a group of assholes. Also, the fact that we all wear brass knuckles and bandanas over our faces and kick your ass if you aren't part of our group, and right after we kick your ass we're gonna sharpie some X's on your hands and tell you how straight-edge we are. I know that's exagerrated (in jest) but that isn't really what the scene is about, from my perspective.

I don't think that's the meaning. Truthfully, this thread is not a good first impression for this site. It's a valuable musical resource just sometimes shit like this happens, as in all.

[AtoMikEnRtiA]

JESUS CHRIST IM SORRY I BROUGHT ALL THIS SHIT UP!!!!

[Hunter]

Most of the people on here are straight shooters. They won't bullshit you but, they won't treat you like shit for no apparent reason either.

I felt the need to post because it seemed to me that a lot of the assumptions about the 'scene' were unfounded. For one, the fact that The Apparati are a group of assholes. Also, the fact that we all wear brass knuckles and bandanas over our faces and kick your ass if you aren't part of our group, and right after we kick your ass we're gonna sharpie some X's on your hands and tell you how straight-edge we are. I know that's exagerrated (in jest) but that isn't really what the scene is about, from my perspective.

I don't think that's the meaning. Truthfully, this thread is not a good first impression for this site. It's a valuable musical resource just sometimes shit like this happens, as in all.

You don't think what is the meaning of what? I'm just not sure what you're saying with this particular post.

[Hunter]

JESUS CHRIST IM SORRY I BROUGHT ALL THIS SHIT UP!!!!

This shouldn't be your reaction to some civil debate.

[AtoMikEnRtiA]

JESUS CHRIST IM SORRY I BROUGHT ALL THIS SHIT UP!!!!

This shouldn't be your reaction to some civil debate.

this isnt my reaction to civil debate..

this is my reaction to all the bullshit BEFORE the civil debate

[AtoMikEnRtiA]

JESUS CHRIST IM SORRY I BROUGHT ALL THIS SHIT UP!!!!

This shouldn't be your reaction to some civil debate.

this isnt my reaction to civil debate..

this is my reaction to all the bullshit BEFORE the civil debate

[Punkinhead]

I felt the need to post because it seemed to me that a lot of the assumptions about the 'scene' were unfounded. For one, the fact that The Apparati are a group of assholes. Also, the fact that we all wear brass knuckles and bandanas over our faces and kick your ass if you aren't part of our group, and right after we kick your ass we're gonna sharpie some X's on your hands and tell you how straight-edge we are. I know that's exagerrated (in jest) but that isn't really what the scene is about, from my perspective.

I don't think that's the meaning. Truthfully, this thread is not a good first impression for this site. It's a valuable musical resource just sometimes shit like this happens, as in all.

You don't think what is the meaning of what? I'm just not sure what you're saying with this particular post.

I mean I think some people are being misquoted and taken out of context in this thread. Not everyone posting in here has a dislike for straight edge, hardcore, etc. Also, just because someone laughs at something funny that has been said by someone else doesn't mean they stand behind it. Shit like that. This thing somehow has blown out of proportion.

[Hunter]

"I mean I think some people are being misquoted and taken out of context in this thread. Not everyone posting in here has a dislike for straight edge, hardcore, etc. Also, just because someone laughs at something funny that has been said by someone else doesn't mean they stand behind it. Shit like that. This thing somehow has blown out of proportion."

It was never my intent to blow anything out of proportion or to take anybody's words out of context. I want that to be clear.

I've stated what I want to be stated. I'll leave it at that I suppose. Like I said earlier, we're all in it to have fun and play music. I mean no disrespect to anybody on these boards. Rock on, y'all.

-Matt Hunter

[YankeeRose]

ill give you a few examples of Vocal Youth's ass attitude towards people...

cite: http://vocalyouth.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=473

In The Company of Heroes (Long Island, NY) and Bats and Knives (Dallas, TX) need a show on either the 12th or the 13th in western/central PA, anyone that can help out with a show will be loved...we love house/basement shows...
www.myspace.com/inthecompanyofheroes
www.myspace.com/batsandknives
check it...
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Dutch
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 466
Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 12:19 am
I bet both vocalists of these bands hop around on one foot. I bet both bands cover obscure punk rock songs from the 80s.
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Wa-Digga
Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 3
Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:49 pm Post subject:
I bet your right...but you should come to a show and find out for yourself...but I'm pretty sure that both bands would probably destroy your band's live show, with both singers hopping around on one foot...
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Joe Marino
what a dickbag...good luck booking a tour, have you tried the whole insulting kids in their scene trick with other towns? Did it work there? Plus, I would put money on the fact that the Apparatis live show fucking dwarfs your mediocre hardcore bands.
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Jordan
BHAHAHAHAHA FUCK THESE BANDZ.
GOOD LUCK FAGGOTS.
*IN COMES TORTI TO STICK UP FOR THEM*
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BrandonK
They are both on the show that Kuzar was going to do that night. The show we are playing at the lions den is a different show than what kuzar was going to do. His was to be in punxy, but i dont think he is doing it anymore. So, if they show up, neither will get to play.
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Next Example is how they treated The Vengeance of Carl Lee..
cite: http://vocalyouth.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=281

TheVengeanceofCarlLee
Whats up everybody...were new on this board and just wanted to Let you all know about our Band " The Vengeance of Carl Lee"...
we can do show swapping or whatever so if your interested in playing with or hearing us.....Contact.....
www.myspace.com/thevengeanceofcarllee
Thanx
Justin
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JoshuaRievel
Someone likes Atreyu.
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John (he's in the apparati)
there's nothing about this that interests me enough to ever hear it again.
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JoshuaRievel
Doesn't saying Atreyu answer it by itself?
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the next is how they treated me (note: i didnt take their shit and disrespect of other acts.. i fought back..)

cite:http://vocalyouth.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=182

Hey all whats up - we're Eyes of Anguish, we're based out of Shade Gap, PA - which is in the Huntingdon/Altoona area - we've been together for roughly a year now, and in that year's time we have played with some of the East Coast's best bands including Stuck in Kaos (Maryland/DC), Second Offense, At Hopes End, A Well Thought Tragedy (Philadelphia), From Dissension (Harrisburg/Lebanon) , Lost in the Flood (Hershey), Dragon Fire, SinAriA (Long Island), among others..

We are looking to explore new, and un-charted territories for us, and heard of Johnstown having a good scene, and are looking for anybody who would be willing to swap shows, you guys bring us to Flood City, we'll bring you to Du Bois for one of our hosted shows that goes on every 5 weeks. We can be found at www.eyesofanguish.tk , or www.myspace.com/eyesofanguish87 or www.purevolume.com/eyesofanguish - anybody who would like to hook up w/ us and swap some shows - can contact our manager, Gary at 814.577.4790 or ge.waite@gmail.com

Here is our upcoming schedule

Dec 31 - New Years Revolution - Surf N Skate, Du Bois, PA
playing with:
From Their Eyes (www.myspace.com/fromtheireyes)
The Spectral Facade (www.myspace.com/thespectralfacade)
Death by Dreams

Jan 21 - Monthly Mayhem @ Surf N Skate, Du Bois, PA
playing with:
Second Offense (www.myspace.com/secondoffense)
The Spectral Facade (www.myspace.com/thespectralfacade)
The Vengeance of Carl Lee (www.myspace.com/thevengeanceofcarllee)
Under A Nightmare - Crypt of Blood records (www.myspace.com/underanightmare)

February 4 - The Pirates Den - Gloucester, New Jersey

So if there is anybody who wants to swap a show, or 2 in January or February - let us know and we'll get on it. Keep it heavy!
E.o.A
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Dutch
I have a hard time believing that a band named Stuck In Kaos is one of the best bands on the East Coast.

Regardless, someone help these dudes out with a show.
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Ben Hannely
They played in the dive-bar a block from the Lion's Den once. And came into a LD show before their bar-show. They had a Static X look to them. I didn't bother to hit the myspace but I hear it's uhm, nu-metal. ya know haha.
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Kuzar
"They played in the dive-bar a block from the Lion's Den once. And came into a LD show before their bar-show. They had a Static X look to them. I didn't bother to hit the myspace but I hear it's uhm, nu-metal. ya know haha. "

Horrible band.
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darkxrider
i love that the only band i know is at hope's end.

FUCK, i'm out of the loop.
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Eyes of Anguish
Im sorry.. next time we'll inform you that we play with bands from ALL over, and not just these over-rated bands that think Altoona is the greatest scene in the world - not that it's a bad scene, we've had some good times there, but by no stretch of the imagination is it Philadelphia, Baltimore or New York state - you go into D.C. and Baltimore, and ask them about Stuck in Kaos, they've opened for Hatebreed, Ill Nino, Chimaira, Dry Kill Logic, www.myspace.com/stuckinkaos - why dont you have a look instead of saying "oh - i love that the only band i know on here is at hopes end" - lemme guess, you think Ahimsa Sunrise is the greatest thing also.

And while you're at it - go to www.myspace.com/sinaria and www.myspace.com/awellthoughttragedy - two very good bands..

Im not trying to disrespect anybody here, but it's blatently obvious that the people who posted back in here - don't look too far out of their own scene..
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Dutch
Good luck getting shows now, felchbreath.
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Eyes of Anguish
why, cuz you dont know how to read when i say "i dont mean any disrespect?" - read some of the shit that goes on here, and tell me you don't see where im coming from. i honestly dont mean any disrespect..

edit: for the record, we're all in this together, it's the bands that make a scene what it is, not the people - you want an example.. go down to the harrisburg area - that's probably the best scene in all of pennsylvania, because it's full of bands who support other bands, bands who don't talk shit on other bands, or say "this show is going to suck" or "they are a horrible band" - they may have their opinions, but they keep it to themselves - this board, in the 2 days I have looked at it, I've seen more negativity than in any other scene board I have gone to. I know not all is negative here, and i respect that - but when people start talking about Aldos as a "dive bar" or that Rex's may suck because it has seats.. thats a little un-necessary .. i know you yourself may not do it dutch, but you know it happens..

As it stands right now, this doesnt speak very highly of the scene here - Pittsburgh has a very bad scene, because of the same excact bullshit I see here.. Apathy on behalf of the bands, nobody gives a damn about their fellow brother - the only example.. may very well be the BFL bands, who i respect immensly for keeping brotherhood in music - but for the large part - i dont see too much on the positive level, yeah like i said - we have had some great times in altoona, but we have also experienced negativity and lack of respect - thats something a scene cannot afford, and it doesn't happen in the scenes that truely thrive.. im done bitching now, read it - dont read it, i dont care.. i just dont want anybody thinking i hate people here cuz of things they said... im just expressing myself.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John
*cue the noise that plays when you lose on the price is right*
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John
furthermore, "felchbreath" is potentially the best insult i've heard in a long time.
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theghostofmikemiller
you want to see how "in it" we all are together?

okay. you started shit with dutch and you talked shit on our board.

so now you will never ever ever play in this town. and that's your loss, because this town is better than anywhere else i've ever been, let alone anywhere you've been.

p.s. being sponsered by anything is lame and is certainly nothing to brag about. someday i hope my band can be a walking, talking commercial for some corporate assholes.

be nice to the next message board you bother. take your lumps. be humble. no one here owes you a goddamn thing.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
john
everything you've said in this thread would make for a fantastic email to anyone who tries to book you out of town.

just sayin
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Eyes of Anguish
and i understand that, i had no intentions of being negative, i said that to dutch 3 times - but you guys mis-treated us the same way you recently mis-treated our friends "The Vengeance of Carl Lee" - as well as 11 other bands who have sent us e-mails and messages on myspace in support.

we really arent trying to create to piss on you guys, but the most of you piss on everything anyways. And, ive also spoken in the past to the places that book us, and they all have had the same to say about this area - and by area i mean Altoona, Bedford and Johnstown. I wont say it for that will start another war - but just so you guys know.. word about this area is out, and its not good..
-----------------------------------

Sorry, but if the exchanges above are accepted as "business as usual", I don't see how anyone can defend VY or the members making such Posts.

[songsmith]

Hunter made some valid points in his very civil and well-thought posts. However, you missed my point completely. I never EVER put musicians down for playing gigs with what they have to work with. At age 20 the music I played was as extreme as metal got in PA, and I played it in Cassville, PA, a town of 300 about 60 miles from a city the size of Altoona, and a million miles from anyone who cared. Here's my point:
Your "us vs. them" struggle, your never-say-die attitude, your big-fishyness in a small pond... it's been done, in fact, most of us dealt with that. There were 400 kids at my high school, counting junior high. 400 kids at a show would have been historic. You're not unique at all. And it'll get worse. That's not demeaning you, that's the God's-honest truth. You'll get boned by shyster agents, greedy clubowners, shadowy record companies, girlfriends, hell, even people you don't know. You'll bust your ass , your wallet, your relationships, your day job, and free time will be rare. People will love you, hate you, and love and hate you again, but it's better than indifference. You'll learn and sacrifice and labor, and about 99% of the ones who stick with it will have little to physically show for it.
It's called paying your dues, and at twenty years old, you've barely scratched the surface. I'm sorry, but I won't lie to you to support your dream. It's just how it is.
Now with all that bad stuff, there IS a payoff. You'll see and do really, really cool, memorable things. You'll meet amazing people who'll be your lifelong friends, and you might just meet your true love. You'll feel a sense of accomplishment, and creative fulfillment that most office-types just dream of. Notice that none of the payoff things have anything to do with record sales, or contracts, or touring.
You don't have to take my advice. Your dreams are yours. I'm just an old veteran chuckling at the young soldiers, that's all.------->JMS

[Hunter]

Hunter made some valid points in his very civil and well-thought posts. However, you missed my point completely. I never EVER put musicians down for playing gigs with what they have to work with. At age 20 the music I played was as extreme as metal got in PA, and I played it in Cassville, PA, a town of 300 about 60 miles from a city the size of Altoona, and a million miles from anyone who cared. Here's my point:
Your "us vs. them" struggle, your never-say-die attitude, your big-fishyness in a small pond... it's been done, in fact, most of us dealt with that. There were 400 kids at my high school, counting junior high. 400 kids at a show would have been historic. You're not unique at all. And it'll get worse. That's not demeaning you, that's the God's-honest truth. You'll get boned by shyster agents, greedy clubowners, shadowy record companies, girlfriends, hell, even people you don't know. You'll bust your ass , your wallet, your relationships, your day job, and free time will be rare. People will love you, hate you, and love and hate you again, but it's better than indifference. You'll learn and sacrifice and labor, and about 99% of the ones who stick with it will have little to physically show for it.
It's called paying your dues, and at twenty years old, you've barely scratched the surface. I'm sorry, but I won't lie to you to support your dream. It's just how it is.
Now with all that bad stuff, there IS a payoff. You'll see and do really, really cool, memorable things. You'll meet amazing people who'll be your lifelong friends, and you might just meet your true love. You'll feel a sense of accomplishment, and creative fulfillment that most office-types just dream of. Notice that none of the payoff things have anything to do with record sales, or contracts, or touring.
You don't have to take my advice. Your dreams are yours. I'm just an old veteran chuckling at the young soldiers, that's all.------->JMS

Sorry, I lied, I'm still lurking.

I never implied that the band I'm in has a rebel attitude and that we are gonna make it big. Honestly, the kind of music we play is too extreme to BE all that big. It's just not that marketable to the masses. But hey, I get a big kick out of the music I write/play and the shows we play, no matter how small. Even if my niche remains that forever, cool. I'm not really in this just to make loads of money. I'm in it to write music that I really like and enjoy to play.

No offence, but you kinda sound like my parents. Nothing wrong with that I guess.

I like that you could put in your opinion without sounding like an asshole, for the record. Cheers.

[Mikey D]

Hey everyone. Vocal Youth is my site. People are assholes on there. It's been like that for 6-7 years now. Sorry.

Music-wise, we're on different planets. It's probably better left that way, in most cases.

[AtoMikEnRtiA]

Hey everyone. Vocal Youth is my site. People are assholes on there. It's been like that for 6-7 years now. Sorry.

Music-wise, we're on different planets. It's probably better left that way, in most cases.

wow.. never expected the creator to surface... but thats awesome you did man

[Primates]

lol. hey mikey D. i didnt see that coming at all.

[AtoMikEnRtiA]

Ron, JP, whomever can do this..

In a few moments, a post will come from Dutch from VY.. upon that, I request that this thread be locked and closed. It's time all this shit dies. As the person who blew this out of proportion, I apologize to both the VY community and Rockpage community. Some of the things I have said, were out of line, lewd, and wrong - for that I apologize to Dutch from VY, and to you, the loyal rockpage crowd.

I do thank all for the support they have given me, and Dakota.. but I ask, on my own behalf that we set all this aside, and move on. God knows this horse has been beaten to death and back. And in the 3 or 4 days this has dominated rockpage, we have forgotten the simpler things on here..

like how much the steelers suck.. haha j.k.

or Chuck Norris jokes..

or .00 buck being as country as pissing off your porch..

or BadDaZeRob's hideous photoshop ventures..

so when Dutch posts, I ask all of you to cease and desist - as I will, and move on with our lives..

Thank You.

[Primates]

will do. stay sic

[Dutch]

Hey guys. It's Dutch (redundant?). First of all, I just wanna say that I'm a little crestfallen by everyone's opinion on me. I mean, you guys have seen my band and have spoken with me enough times that you've definitely collected enough data to formulate an accurate and thorough opinion on my character/goals/personality/past experiences, so I'm a little bummed that everyone seems to really despise me. What I'm trying to say here is that most of your transgressions are completely unfounded. If I had a nickel for every time a friend has said to me, "Man, I used to think you were the cockiest, most arrogant asshole in the world, but you're actually a super cool dude," I could buy you all lunch.

Now is where I take on the burden of trying to clean off the mud that you've all dragged my name through. The first thing I want to address is that whoever said I made a bad name for The Zimmermann Note is beyond erroneous with those accusations. That's really the only thing I feel is necessary to clear up. Travis (former vocalist) and Damian (guitarist) had a big fight on VY and I didn't even intervene because I still definitely like TZN despite Travis being a friend of mine. I sort of wish I had the power to make or break bands in the area. If I did, I certainly wouldn't use it as a detriment to any band, let alone TZN. I'd just rid the area of shitty pop punk bands. Whoever said that I'm responsible for them not playing around here is a fucking toolbag and is full of shit. I just wore my TZN shirt the other day! Some kids might now dislike them for trivial reasons, but I'm definitely not that petty. It makes my palms sweat that someone would even say that shit.

Secondly, that Primates kid that IMed me is 15. In good judgment, I cannot let any 15 year old condescend me and tell me about music business. Some of you seem to have this misconception that my band sits on the couch and just magically writes song and gets our name out there. We work just as hard as all of you and maybe even harder. A lot of you are so quick to brag about your bands' accomplishments or your past bands' accomplishments and have the assumption that my band is a fly by night hardcore band headed for a quick and forgetful demise. You couldn't be more than wrong. This goes back to all of your unfounded assumptions. How many of you actually went and (unbiasedly) listened to my band? Even if you don't like us, you can't deny that the production of the music is good and that the musicianship is excellent. That didn't happen by being misinformed, snotty nosed 20 year olds with our heads up our asses. My band is basking in some great opportunities right now, but I'm not going to brag about them to try to qualify myself or tread water with people who will patronize us and me regardless of our accomplishments. It'd be like bragging to a lesbian that you have a big dick. What'd be the point? That bitch's mind is made up.

What I think happened here is two different worlds collided. Two different cultures clashed. I think some of you (and if I'm wrong here, say so) see music as a business and a job, whereas we see it as an art. I know it's sounds cliche, but that's the best way I can sum it up. Granted, we love that we can make money off of this art. Where you guys play covers that you enjoy and make a good bit of money off of it, we want to play originals and be in debt and live off like 10 bucks a day. We are well aware that we're playing firehalls and basements, but some day my band will tour the country, and hopefully parts of Europe. Granted, we'll be playing dinky clubs and stuff, but that's something I've wanted my whole life. I'm a punk rock kid at heart and I have a very strong DIY ethic. Cover songs are not DIY. I have no disrespect for cover bands. I have no disrespect for bands with radio-friendly music, that's just not at all where my heart is. I want to challenge listeners and myself. The wiser than thou attitude would be fine if you actually knew and understood where any my peers or I were coming from. Username songsmith has apparently been through the annals of the music business and back again because he seems to know exactly what will happen to every band and how it will happen. Like the Miss Cleo of underground metal, if you will. While I appreciate your patronizing advice and condescending forewarnings, songsmith, I'll take the young and astutely ignorant route and try it myself. I'm not saying that you won't at some point be able to say to me, "I told you so," but would you have listened to your own advice when you were 20 years old? This entire thread is a losing battle where every single word is written in vain. We all have our minds made up and I'm just talking in circles and probably only solidifying the belief that I'm an arrogant asshole. However, being in my band makes me happy and I'm not going to let anyone who doesn't know me ruin that for me. In conclusion, that 15 year old kid is extremely naive and should really learn some respect. The dude from Eyes Of Anguish who called me "douche" is a good kid. A backpedaler, but a good kid. Stuck In Kaos is a good band (I actually checked them out today), but their name is awful. There's no denying that having sex gives you a better appreciation of metal. It's 3:24 AM, I'm really tired and most of this post will not make any sense to me tomorrow, but it feels good right now. I'm not some dumb, hardcore straight edge kid who makes fun of bands. The posts of mine that were taken from VY and paisted onto here were extremely truncated to make me look bad. I'm seriously one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet. One of the reasons my band will probably never get rich is because I give too much of our merch away. And finally, until you've seen my band live or talked with me in person, you really have no right as men with testicles to say shit about me and behind my back. That's something women do. If you want to hate me, at least get to know me.

www.myspace.com/theapparati


Sorry for any typos, I'm not editing that shit. I gotta get to bed. Since this thread is gonna get locked, I invite you all to IM me anytime you want on AIM at see dutch KILL. Except for that 15 year old kid. That mother fucker is nothing but trouble.

[Cian]

Its funny what they said about "You will never play in this town" because honestly, they dont run the "scene" they play in firehalls. I doubt there is a band that makes $200 a night split between 4 or 5 people. Johnstown is fuckin weak as a music scene compared to some places ive been in North Carolina and florida...so this dude who says that johnstown is the greatest scene ever apparently has never been outside his basement walls.

Hello,
I'm Cian. I'm another Johnstown kid. When I read this I wanted to make an account to tell you why we love our scene. It's got nothing to do with making mad money at a show...that's why I haven't run a show for over 5$ in over two years. The local bands play the shows because there's nothing we'd rather be doing, it's never been about the money, or even close. On any show that I've ever run, I've done everything in my power to make a solid amount of money for the touring acts. For us, the locals, we're there because we understand eachother.
Johnstown's scene's not about money, or about music business, or about Vocal Youth. I've played a show in almost every US state, and can safely say that in my eyes, there really is no place better than Johnstown. It's about the honesty, the intimacy, and the fact that we all understand eachother there. I really hope that some of the people on this board have a chance to play the right kind of Johnstown show. I don't really run metal, metalcore, or tough guy hardcore shows because I think the scene's become too oversaturrated with it for another promoter to be working in it. If any other sort of band ever wants to get a show in town, IM me: CianOTron.

For the aforementioned bands, getting a hold of Dave Earl, Joe Marino, Mike D'angelo, or a number of other promoters in town would be your best bet. Talk to me, and I'm sure I can try to help.

[Dutch]

Yeah, if any band wants to play Johnstown, IM me. My band will gladly split our set with you or try to get you on a show.


Okay, I'm going to bed.

[Jim Price]

Per the requests of the parties involved, I'll lock this thread. Hopefully through it all, some issues were addressed and the players involved know each other's viewpoints and where the other parties stand. From there, perhaps some understanding and constructive results may occur in the long run. Good luck to all.