VOCAL YOUTH....WHY ARE THEY SO DISRESPECTFUL

[bassist_25]

Straight edge. What a bunch of lame and boring little children.

If someone doesn't want to do drugs or have sex or whatever, I respect that. But I don't understand why the straight-edge kids feel that they have to make a social statement about it. I always use the analogy that I don't go around sticking my dick in bear traps, but I don't have to tell the world that I abstain from the penis/bear trap lifestyle by drawing black X's on my hands or beating up people that don't follow my ideology.

[ChaosRisingRice]

I don't have any problem if they don't want to do anything like that. But it seems that people that are straight edge. Think they are better than everybody else which that is not the case. From what you guys are saying that goes on over at VY that is what it sounds like to me.

We all have our fun. But just because some of us drink, or smoke not only cigs, or have sex doesn't mean that they are better. We all live separate lives.

Can't we all just get along

[ChaosRisingRice]

yeah i have heard about that whole black x thing. Ever since i have been living in maryland. I haven't seen a straight edge person down here. The only people that wear x's on their hands down here are minors when they go to a club so they can't drink.

[ThrashKillsYou]

My penis is flacid and unused. I don't eat or drink anything that is considered harmful so that I can live to be 100 then die while no one is around. just getting that out. The band i'm fillin in for now got jumped at one these shows because they were (hardcore dancing) directly in front of them with their ass in their faces. They asked them to move so they didn't hit the instruments and a member was sucker punched from the side and back then was jumped on by like 20 people. I will never go to another vocal youth hosted show because of these facts and also i'm not in their clique.

[Primates]

this conversation. wow. thats all i have to say. they were bashing bands like eyes of anguish, stuck in kaos. and a few others on their forums. now, for those that may know me. im only 15. but i take my business very seriously and its taken me this far. so i posted a statement. i was very blunt about it. iv worked since i was 14. 9 hours a day everyday do get bands going. Gary Waite from eyes of anguish knows first hand the hell ive gone through for bands and shows. hes been there sometimes with me. well, this dutch guy sent me a message. to try and "explain himself" he ended up posting the conversation over their "vocal youth" forum. i later had this to say


Primates6sic6: posting a conversation wont change anything. lol
see dutch KILL: i was just trying to show both sides.
Primates6sic6: lol no you werent. you were trying to prove you were right.
see dutch KILL: what am i wrong about dude?
Primates6sic6: you dont like stuck in kaos right?
see dutch KILL: what am i wrong or right about?
Primates6sic6: i mean just the name.
see dutch KILL: i have never listened to them
see dutch KILL: all i said was i don't like their name
Primates6sic6: alright then
see dutch KILL: you don't even really have an argument
Primates6sic6: why did you voice that opinion?
see dutch KILL: because i can
Primates6sic6: thats not a valid reason
Primates6sic6: thats what we call being an a**hole
see dutch KILL: if i ask you a question, promise not to lie?
Primates6sic6: sure
Primates6sic6: whats your question?
see dutch KILL: are you reading my messages at all? because you just keep saying the same thing over and over again and i have a feeling that you're just not even taking what i have to say into consideration.
Primates6sic6: i read the forum
see dutch KILL: are you reading what i'm saying right now?
Primates6sic6: i saw what you had to say about EOA and S.I.K
see dutch KILL: okay, let's take this slowly..
see dutch KILL: well i don't want my band getting a bad rap, that's why i'm explaining myself here.
Primates6sic6: well, you say you represent your part of the scene
Primates6sic6: your doing a bad job
Primates6sic6: now just wait here for a sec
see dutch KILL: just hang on a second.
Primates6sic6: alrigth
see dutch KILL: i'm trying to clear things up.
see dutch KILL: john is not in the apparati. so when he says things, that does not reflect the apparati's view on anything.
Primates6sic6: you know how you can clear this up
Primates6sic6: go back. and delete your statements on S.I.K
see dutch KILL: no.
see dutch KILL: that's my next point.
Primates6sic6: i believe you guys deleted a thread that had gary waite from EOA involded in it
Primates6sic6: the board admins deleted that thread
Primates6sic6: why not delete this one
see dutch KILL: i have every right to say that their name is stupid.
see dutch KILL: it is stupid.
see dutch KILL: it wasn't deleted.
see dutch KILL: that thread was on the older version of VY
Primates6sic6: it didnt leave by itself
see dutch KILL: that version crashed, this is the new one.
Primates6sic6: oh i see. lol
see dutch KILL: see this is your thickskulled way of thinking. you call other people narrowminded, yet you think it's wrong for someone to have an opinion.
Primates6sic6: no i dont
Primates6sic6: i think its great
see dutch KILL: then why do you want me to take back what i said about Stuck In Kaos?
Primates6sic6: but when you get up on your pedistol and scream your opinions out
Primates6sic6: its wrong
see dutch KILL: do you really think a band should go uncriticized?
Primates6sic6: gant it if someone asked you different story
Primates6sic6: no. but that was UNCALLED for
Primates6sic6: get that through your head
Primates6sic6: you had NO right to say that
see dutch KILL: by posting in an open forum, you are setting yourself up for that shit.
see dutch KILL: i had every right to say it.
Primates6sic6: you had NO reason to say that
Primates6sic6: why. why why why
see dutch KILL: the spirit moved me, i said it.
see dutch KILL: their name is terrible
Primates6sic6: haha bul*hit
see dutch KILL: you surely cannot feel otherwise
Primates6sic6: you were just being a little pric*
see dutch KILL: by the way, what show of ours did you book?
see dutch KILL: i'm not little.
see dutch KILL: i'm like 6' 4"
Primates6sic6: i believe it was the first pax show we had
see dutch KILL: at that one firehall?
Primates6sic6: SnS
see dutch KILL: we played there twice
Primates6sic6: i believe so
see dutch KILL: it was probably the one that wasn't on our tour.
see dutch KILL: anyway, man, my band gets shit all of the time, even when it's not called for. even when i'm not really asking for criticism. i bet the guys in Stuck In Kaos couldn't give two shits what i think about their name. you shouldn't either.
see dutch KILL: i wouldn't want anyone running around sticking up for my band like you're doing for them. if someone tells my friend that the apparati is a terrible band name, i'd expect them to just be like "yeah, well. . . you know. . . that's your opinion, man"
Primates6sic6: ya know what here
Primates6sic6: let me explain something to yu
Primates6sic6: when you guys first played. i thought you sucked. i thought you sucked bad. but when me and a friend of mine really looked at the band. we saw there was alot of talent involved in that group. now, if i would have come up to you and said "you guys fuc*in suck dont come back" how would that reflect not only on me. but you as well.
see dutch KILL: okay
see dutch KILL: to be honest with you, if i had prior knowledge of the bands you think are good, i would be relieved that you sucked.
see dutch KILL: see what you did just there?
see dutch KILL: you gave me an opinion when i never asked for one.
Primates6sic6: no i didnt. i gave you a fact. i didnt speak my opinion
see dutch KILL: if you try to say i shouldn't have said that about Stuck In Kaos, you're hypocrite
Primates6sic6: and if i did you would have been fuc*ed off right?
see dutch KILL: hahaha you state facts as "i thought . . ."
Primates6sic6: and you would have every reason to
see dutch KILL: that's how you state opinions
see dutch KILL: no i wouldn't have been fuc*ed off
Primates6sic6: because its rude, ignorant
see dutch KILL: i've been told we suck before.
see dutch KILL: no it's not
see dutch KILL: it's honesty.
Primates6sic6: yea so. theres still talent there
see dutch KILL: you're a hypocrite, man
see dutch KILL: sorry
see dutch KILL: you're a hypocrite.
see dutch KILL: thank you for booking my band
Primates6sic6: and youre an a**hole. see how people respond to "your opinion"
see dutch KILL: granted, i am an a**hole.
see dutch KILL: i never said i wasn't an a**hole
Primates6sic6: i am aware
see dutch KILL: i never said it was nice or cool of me to say they have a shitty name
see dutch KILL: i just said it's my right to say that.
see dutch KILL: and you gave me your opinion, unprovoked and it's your right to do that also
see dutch KILL: how old are you?
Primates6sic6: there is a law that says you are aloud to say what you want to say
see dutch KILL: allowed***
Primates6sic6: but theres a line between honesty and opinions and just coming out as a straight up f*** head.
Primates6sic6: you came off as a sincere a**hole
see dutch KILL: so be it. at the end of the day, they'll have a bad band name, i'll be an asshole and you'll be a hypocrite
Primates6sic6: stuck in kaos has made it farther then your band will ever go
see dutch KILL: again, i doubt the guys in stuck in kaos give two $hits about what dutch in the apparati thinks of their band name
Primates6sic6: no they wont
see dutch KILL: i'm sure they have made it further.
see dutch KILL: my band will probably not go anywhere
Primates6sic6: its a possibility
see dutch KILL: i'm not gonna sit here and brag about my band's accomplishments
see dutch KILL: i could.
Primates6sic6: so could i.
see dutch KILL: but i see no point in it.
see dutch KILL: you don't have a band
Primates6sic6: lol
Primates6sic6: ive been on the road. ive traveled in a van that had 1 seat.
Primates6sic6: ive gone to georgia and lived off of oodles and noodles in a plastic bag
see dutch KILL: how kerouac-ian of you.
Primates6sic6: i haul in gear EVERY saturday night
Primates6sic6: and ya know what
Primates6sic6: you asked how old i am
Primates6sic6: and youre probly going to laugh at this. and if you do. just proves my point
Primates6sic6: im currently 15 years old
see dutch KILL: that makes sense.
Primates6sic6: ive been running my studio for near 2 years now
see dutch KILL: i was afraid you were like 30 or something
Primates6sic6: oh, dont under estimate me.
Primates6sic6: my age has no part in this
Primates6sic6: nor does yours
see dutch KILL: because if you were 30 and you were as unintelligent as you currently are, i would feel really really bad for you, but since you're 15, i feel kind of embarassed that i just wasted this much time.
see dutch KILL: hahaha you were talking down to me before too!
see dutch KILL: hahahahaha
Primates6sic6: heh, i should take you down to my studio sometime
see dutch KILL: i thought i was dealing with a really stupid like sub-intelligent adult.
Primates6sic6: haha
Primates6sic6: yea, im glad you find that amusing.
see dutch KILL: dude, you act like i've never seen or been in a studio before.
Primates6sic6: have you been to one that was bought and run by a 15 year old?
see dutch KILL: some day when you're old enough to understand music that isn't dumbed down and watered down for the masses you will be able to appreciate the apparati.
Primates6sic6: i actually worked for my *hit. my old man has no money. lol i put alot of hard work and time into everything i have.
see dutch KILL: no, i haven't had the displeasure of being in a studio that was built and paid for by a 15 year old.
Primates6sic6: as well as my name.
Primates6sic6: haha
see dutch KILL: what's your name again?
Primates6sic6: you are very arogant.
Primates6sic6: lol
see dutch KILL: i'm not arrogant, i'm just 20 years old and far wiser than you.
Primates6sic6: haha
Primates6sic6: thats a matter of opinion
see dutch KILL: no, me being 20 is not an opinion.
Primates6sic6: old and far wiser than you
Primates6sic6: are you reading? lol
Primates6sic6: wiser eh?
see dutch KILL: it's almost inarguable that i'm wiser than you
see dutch KILL: ever feel a pu**y on your johnson?
Primates6sic6: haha.
Primates6sic6: ya know what bro. you may be in a band. you may think your smarter. you probly have more of an ego. but youll never amount to much. nor will your band.
Primates6sic6: you cmoe to du bois sometimes
Primates6sic6: what date you want
see dutch KILL: let's make some time this summer
Primates6sic6: ya know what.
Primates6sic6: here. march 18th
Primates6sic6: battle of the bands up here
see dutch KILL: that way i can drive you to FYE and have you buy my band's CD.
see dutch KILL: we don't play battle of the bands.
Primates6sic6: winner gets a couple hundred bucks and 4 songs done by no face music
see dutch KILL: and we're recording an album until april
Primates6sic6: haha
see dutch KILL: that's why we're barely playing at all
Primates6sic6: oh youre backing out man?
Primates6sic6: oh haha. oops
Primates6sic6: didnt think you were up to it.
see dutch KILL: dude, battle of the bands judges would fuc*ing hate my band anyway
Primates6sic6: who said anything about judges?
see dutch KILL: then how is it judged?
see dutch KILL: by people casting votes? yeah that's fair
see dutch KILL: a local band has like 300 of their little cronies show up
see dutch KILL: f*** battle of the bands.
see dutch KILL: you are 15
see dutch KILL: you can't possibly understand what i'm talking about
Primates6sic6: pffh
see dutch KILL: you've never felt a pu**y on your johnson
Primates6sic6: hahahaha
see dutch KILL: you say you worked for your *hit
Primates6sic6: haha
see dutch KILL: what'd you do? save up your birthday money?
see dutch KILL: wtf?
Primates6sic6: im sorry. are you getting frustrated over there?
see dutch KILL: it's tired and i'm being belligerent
Primates6sic6: haha ok
see dutch KILL: I'M tired
Primates6sic6: and you couldnt take the *hit i do for a living.
see dutch KILL: it's late
see dutch KILL: dude, shut up.
Primates6sic6: haha aww you leavin man
see dutch KILL: you've never felt a pu**y on your johnson
Primates6sic6: im sorry. did i get your panties in a bunch?
Primates6sic6: f*** man im sorry haha
Primates6sic6: im only 15...what can ya do ya know
see dutch KILL: i think there is some rule that says until you've f***ed a girl, you can't really even appreciate metal.
Primates6sic6: hhahaha
Primates6sic6: whos rule is that
Primates6sic6: yours?
Primates6sic6: figures.
Primates6sic6: im not the one getting pi**ed off because 15 year old has the balls to stand up.
see dutch KILL: i'm not pi**ed off.
Primates6sic6: lol yet
see dutch KILL: you may have balls.
Primates6sic6: but if ya wanna stick around for awhile its cool
see dutch KILL: but keep in mind, they've never had dried pu**y crust on them
Primates6sic6: hahaha
Primates6sic6: youre a funny guy huh
Primates6sic6: 20 wiser and gets more a** then me
Primates6sic6: god i should kill myself
Primates6sic6: i mean...what the hells wrong with me? hahaha
see dutch KILL: you're typing to yourself at this point
Primates6sic6: haha i know
Primates6sic6: as long as you got the window open. lol
see dutch KILL: what label is stuck in kaos on?
Primates6sic6: oh christ. i think chris does their *hit
Primates6sic6: not sure tho
Primates6sic6: good guys tho
see dutch KILL: this time next year, if my band is actually somewhere (like we got somewhere) can i like bend you over my knee and spank you or something?
see dutch KILL: can i in someway prove that you have bad taste and are an idiot?
Primates6sic6: haha come to dubois with that attitude.
see dutch KILL: we've been in dubois before
see dutch KILL: three times.
Primates6sic6: come back
see dutch KILL: hopefully we will eventually.
Primates6sic6: you want to come back and talk *hit?
see dutch KILL: dubois kids like us
see dutch KILL: dude, you're 15.
see dutch KILL: i just wanna bend you over my knee and give you a licking
see dutch KILL: i don't fight, bro.
see dutch KILL: i bang chicks.
Primates6sic6: haha whos the pu** now
Primates6sic6: you keep backing out man
Primates6sic6: you dissapoint me
Primates6sic6: you dont want to do our battle
Primates6sic6: you dont want to come here and talk *hit
see dutch KILL: it's the internet, dude the least you could do is threaten me yourself
see dutch KILL: hahaha
Primates6sic6: aww. poor b**** boy is afraid to come and see some good music.
see dutch KILL: where is the battle?
Primates6sic6: the battle i at SNS this year
see dutch KILL: march 18th?
see dutch KILL: what time/
Primates6sic6: 10 bands. all metal. 3 till 11
see dutch KILL: i'll come for a little
see dutch KILL: i'm not coming for f***ing 10 bands
see dutch KILL: that's ridiculous
Primates6sic6: haha
Primates6sic6: all about music huh
see dutch KILL: i can't handle more than like 4 bands.
see dutch KILL: i get a headache.
Primates6sic6: aww
Primates6sic6: poor you
see dutch KILL: hahahaha jesus christ why am i talking with you still?
see dutch KILL: it's 4am and i'm arguing with a 15 year old
see dutch KILL: alright
see dutch KILL: i'll make a cameo at your battle of the bans.
see dutch KILL: bands.
see dutch KILL: i'm coming to actually check out some bands
see dutch KILL: and maybe hear some good tunes
Primates6sic6: please remove the S.I.K post
see dutch KILL: i'm not coming out of malice
see dutch KILL: no.
see dutch KILL: some day when you're 17 or 18 you'll understand that people are allowed to have their own opinions.
Primates6sic6: lol. alright.
see dutch KILL: good luck with puberty man

[AtoMikEnRtiA]

jesus... you know tho, if you go to the thread on vocal youth that was started with me in it - dutch said his band didnt want to be a sell out, label signed band.. that there were more important things to music than that.. and now he's talking down stuck in kaos because they're ACTUALLY against labels and produce their own shit, meanwhile the apparatti wants to be signed.. hypocrite much?

and for the record.. i think the apparati is one of the stupidest names one could ever create. stuck in kaos actually means something, it actually gives an envisionment with the wording.. meh, i think we all spend too much time dissing this shit .. i havent seen a good rockpage fight in a day or 2..

hey, no surrender..

[Primates]

i played his game for a bit. but im a firm believer in not taking shit. grant it id be better off shutting up. so would the cause. but as i said. im only 15. lol hopefully over time ill learn to avoid assholes like this. but hey, a group of ignorant assholes dont like me, oh well. ya know. ill be seeing you at tonights show gary. stay sic.

[ThrashKillsYou]

Buy Saw 2!

[bassist_25]

Wow, I read about 1/5 of that IM conversation and quit. I wouldn't worry about things too much. As Vic Synn said, you're pretty much dealing with unprofessional garage bands who couldn't survive in the Real World (aka: the actual music business) if they tried. It's a lot easier to wear girl's pants, paint X's on your hands, and talk about "selling out", "integrity", "anti-commercialism" and other trendy-scenester bullshit that really doesn't mean anything once you're old enough to own your own home. I'm not slamming all age shows or the bands that play them (I wish there were local all-age shows around here when I was a teen. Plus I may even make a trip up to Surf n' Skate tonight since I'm off to see what it's all about. Also, one of my favorite local original bands, At a Hopes End, plays many all-age events), but very often, you're going to be dealing with a lack of professionalism, musicianship, and savvyness about the business with many of these bands. Johnny's satire about owning a real ephiphone and what-not was pretty damn funny, but it rings with a lot of truth. Many of the vocal-youth bands with ego problems need to book a few clubs, and then they're find out how good (or not good) they really are.

[Primates]

hey man, thanks for the advice. ill honestly take it to heart. and thanks for your supoport. i have dealt with lack of professionalism before. but not on this scale. there is a WHOLE forum dedicated to these kids. and im not putting myself nor my business on a pedistol. but i feel so much like an adult because im not doing what all the other "kids" my age are doing. but most definately man. if ya want a gig out at Surf N Skate shoot me an email and ill hook ya up. stay sic fella's. and stay sic.

[bassist_25]

No problem, bro. I think it's a great thing that you do, because the youth really does need something positive in their lives. I've watched the generation that's coming behind me in Houtzdale turn into druggies and alchoholics because they don't have anything positive to do. About two summers ago, we had an all-age show come into the firehall here, and it got shut-down because the blue-hairs started bitching. Then there were two bands from Washington D.C. trying to find their way out of town. I was trying to explain to them how to get back to I-80 when the local Barney Fife came in and threatened us all with citations. The irony is that our town clown is a musician himself, so you'd think he would be sympathetic. But I digress. My point is that I support anything positive for the youth in this area.

You're learning that a lot of the business is bullshit. Take it from someone's who's young compared to many at this site but has been around long enough to get kicked in the teeth a few times by the music business: It's always a fight. Fuck the ego-driven bands on that website. It's stupid of them to argue with you over asinine stuff. That would be like me calling up a club owner at a place we do well at and telling him to go fuck himself. Those guys need a dose of reality on why not to piss off the venue owner. You're already running a successful all-ages event at 15 years old, so I'm sure you're going to be successful at whatever you do when you're older, whether it's getting into bigger promotion, operating a booking agency/production company, or having your own label. While you're doing that, a lot of those guys are going to be playing in their basements every week in preperation for the four shows they're do a year (but their girlfriends will be telling them that they'll all be the next Slayer), or they'll give up music entirely in frustration because they'll be 30 years old and wondering why they're still playing firehalls in Johnstown. Keep booking the quality acts (bands like EoA and 4 Days Dirtys); don't be afraid to tell the idiots and unprofessional people to go fuck themselves; and love what you do.

[YankeeRose]

The level of maturity one has at any given age invariably has very little to do with that person's age.



Primates, the fact that the cretin keeps trying to brag about how much pussy he gets, shows how immature he is compared to you...in reality, it's likely he doesn't get any!

[Primates]

thanks for your support and advice guys. i hope to see all of you very soon. and yank, that was in my mind the whole time he was saying that. lol

[bassist4life2004]

Its funny what they said about "You will never play in this town" because honestly, they dont run the "scene" they play in firehalls. I doubt there is a band that makes $200 a night split between 4 or 5 people. Johnstown is fuckin weak as a music scene compared to some places ive been in North Carolina and florida...so this dude who says that johnstown is the greatest scene ever apparently has never been outside his basement walls.

[songsmith]

Again, I'm laughing. It's kinda sweet really... when you're a teenager, and your world is really small, but your dreams are so big. The whole first verse of "Summer Of '69" thing. Sometimes I miss that.
I'd point out that eventually, since you all live in the same area, those who stick with live music will wind up playing together... I'd point that out, but you'd just tell me I'm full of sh*t. And so it should be. I'm no dreamcrusher. Dream on, kids, you're in for a long, memorable ride!--->JMS

[Primates]

i agge with you songsmith. that also includes myself. (booking/promotion/recording) but im proud of the fact ive been here almost a year and a half as primate studios. and i just recorded and mixed my first live CD. and im just taking things as they come and finding ways to improve myself as well as my work. lol thanks for the advice tho. im glad i got some experience people telling me these things.

[Punkinhead]

Man, I know Dutch. Let me tell you that he's not a bad dude but, he is opinionated (as is every 20 year old though). As for Vocal Youth, my old band used to do the scene there some. 95% of it is the trendiest, least musically inclined bullshit that I have ever seen. A band that can barely play would get 400 people at a show and ones that have talent would get knocked for not sucking ass in the scene, thus getting 75 people at a show. And isnce then, all of the bands or musicians in that were any good (with a couple exceptions) have all left.



It's not even a real scene so don't worry about it. It's kids hanging out who think that they are God because they know 3 chords, one beat, and cry on a mic to a handful of 14-16 year old trend following hypocrites.

[Jeramy]

I'm laughing hysterically at the whole thing.
"My band rocks!"
"No, your band sucks, my band rocks!"
"But my band's played 4 shows, and yours only played 3, and my stepmom says we're really awesome!"
"You don't know awesome. I played, like, 3 birthday parties before in my old band (back in October). I'm experienced, and anyway, my guitar is more expensive cause I caught my dad boning my babysitter, and he buys me stuff to shut me up... it's a real Epiphone. Plus, you sound like just another (insert flavor-of-the-day wuss band here), and we're 'influenced' by (insert band-whose-video-they-saw-on-TRL-today here). Your band sucks."
"Nuh-uh. We play angst-ridden, sensitive, power-emo-homo-screamo-IhatemydadsgirfriendshesnotmymomandIdonthavetolistentoher-core. My band rocks!"

Some things never change.
Eventually, these kids will come in off the playground, and realize... they're in SCHOOL!! I love it when that happens. -------->JMS

wow... i'm not getting involved in the whole vocal youth thing, but i just wanna say that is probably the funniest post i have ever seen!
-jeramy

[AtoMikEnRtiA]

I'm laughing hysterically at the whole thing.
"My band rocks!"
"No, your band sucks, my band rocks!"
"But my band's played 4 shows, and yours only played 3, and my stepmom says we're really awesome!"
"You don't know awesome. I played, like, 3 birthday parties before in my old band (back in October). I'm experienced, and anyway, my guitar is more expensive cause I caught my dad boning my babysitter, and he buys me stuff to shut me up... it's a real Epiphone. Plus, you sound like just another (insert flavor-of-the-day wuss band here), and we're 'influenced' by (insert band-whose-video-they-saw-on-TRL-today here). Your band sucks."
"Nuh-uh. We play angst-ridden, sensitive, power-emo-homo-screamo-IhatemydadsgirfriendshesnotmymomandIdonthavetolistentoher-core. My band rocks!"

Some things never change.
Eventually, these kids will come in off the playground, and realize... they're in SCHOOL!! I love it when that happens. -------->JMS

wow... i'm not getting involved in the whole vocal youth thing, but i just wanna say that is probably the funniest post i have ever seen!
-jeramy

its ok jeramy.. you're getting involved by playing out there this weekend in johnstown haha but it's cool, cuz i think some of us may come out to kick people's ass if they start shit on ya. (barring other plans getting in the way) so you're clear.. haha

[YankeeRose]

i agge with you songsmith. that also includes myself. (booking/promotion/recording) but im proud of the fact ive been here almost a year and a half as primate studios. and i just recorded and mixed my first live CD. and im just taking things as they come and finding ways to improve myself as well as my work. lol thanks for the advice tho. im glad i got some experience people telling me these things.

Primates, I have one other little bit of experience to impart...at 15, you seem very mature and to have your head squarely on your shoulders. At the age of 15, I sincerely hope you "enjoy" the HELL out of what you are doing! I hope that you also enjoy being 15, 16, 17, etc. and all the simple joys that those ages are supposed to bring. As I've always told my children, don't be in such a hurry to grow up, enjoy the things you can while "being a kid" for as long as you possibly can, for when you do grow up it lasts for a long, long time.

[Possessed]

When I was 20 and playing in one of the most competitive genres of the time, we still didn't act like that. Of course we had ego's we were young. But one thing we never did was rip on other bands. We knew that no matter how bad a band sucked or kicked ass we are all in this together and we made some great friends because of it.
Everybody in our "scene" jammed with everybody else in one band or another and we had fun with it. Some bands did well others didn't but thats life eh?
All I can say is these punks won't make it past the garage and the firehall scene if they stick with that attitude.

If they don't want to be signed they are on the right path.

[adamstatic]

I don't have any problem if they don't want to do anything like that. But it seems that people that are straight edge. Think they are better than everybody else which that is not the case. From what you guys are saying that goes on over at VY that is what it sounds like to me.

We all have our fun. But just because some of us drink, or smoke not only cigs, or have sex doesn't mean that they are better. We all live separate lives.

Can't we all just get along

I would just like to say two things.

Chaosrisingrice. First of all you go and post assumptions about straight-edge kids followed by the statement "can't we all just get along?" I'm curious as to why you feel this way. I have tons of friends who claim "edge" and still hang around kids who drink, smoke, do drugs.

Second, I would like to know what is all this talk about the "business" of music. Maybe you have mistaken it with the word "ethics" because last time I checked Vocal Youth stood for the underground music scene. I think it would be safe to say that. I also read people saying that just because a band plays firehall shows or whatnot they are not going to make it anywhere. The word "sucess" varies from person to person. To some people playing a basement is success. To some people playing an arena is success. So I don't think it's fair to say that any band won't make it anywhere especially when you don't know what success means to them. I've seen 400 kids come to a "firehall show" to support bands. 400 kids is a lot of kids. I'm just trying to give some insight/open outside opinions on some things. I'm not here to argue.

I have been a member of Vocal Youth for about 4-5 years or so and have met some sincere and genuine people from there. I have also met some super awsome and hardworking bands that have done more than "played 3 shows". Many which have toured, put out records all in DIY style. To me that is more remarkable than playing bars or corporate sponsered events. Once again that is my personal opinion. I have nothing against bands that choose to take that path. Please I'm just asking that we take the time to get to know people, bands, places, and communities before we pass judgement. To me that seems like more of a step towards "can't we all just get along" than stereotyping or trash talking on a message board. Because we all know that that achieve's nothing. Come talk to kids at the shows, let them know if you don't like what they're doing. Tell them what you would do differently. Come to a show that is held and Johnstown or held by a member of Vocal Youth and maybe you will change your mind. It's amazing how much has already been accomplished here. I know that sometimes these online forum's seem harsh or whatnot, but cmon' it's the internet and I know it isn't always the best place to go for serious talk/discussion.

Please take the time to read what I have said. Once again I'm not here to argue but to talk about things that are important to me. Thats all!

Thanks

-Adam

[bassist_25]

I would just like to say two things.

Chaosrisingrice. First of all you go and post assumptions about straight-edge kids followed by the statement "can't we all just get along?" I'm curious as to why you feel this way. I have tons of friends who claim "edge" and still hang around kids who drink, smoke, do drugs.

Second, I would like to know what is all this talk about the "business" of music. Maybe you have mistaken it with the word "ethics" because last time I checked Vocal Youth stood for the underground music scene. I think it would be safe to say that. I also read people saying that just because a band plays firehall shows or whatnot they are not going to make it anywhere. The word "sucess" varies from person to person. To some people playing a basement is success. To some people playing an arena is success. So I don't think it's fair to say that any band won't make it anywhere especially when you don't know what success means to them. I've seen 400 kids come to a "firehall show" to support bands. 400 kids is a lot of kids. I'm just trying to give some insight/open outside opinions on some things. I'm not here to argue.

I have been a member of Vocal Youth for about 4-5 years or so and have met some sincere and genuine people from there. I have also met some super awsome and hardworking bands that have done more than "played 3 shows". Many which have toured, put out records all in DIY style. To me that is more remarkable than playing bars or corporate sponsered events. Once again that is my personal opinion. I have nothing against bands that choose to take that path. Please I'm just asking that we take the time to get to know people, bands, places, and communities before we pass judgement. To me that seems like more of a step towards "can't we all just get along" than stereotyping or trash talking on a message board. Because we all know that that achieve's nothing. Come talk to kids at the shows, let them know if you don't like what they're doing. Tell them what you would do differently. Come to a show that is held and Johnstown or held by a member of Vocal Youth and maybe you will change your mind. It's amazing how much has already been accomplished here. I know that sometimes these online forum's seem harsh or whatnot, but cmon' it's the internet and I know it isn't always the best place to go for serious talk/discussion.

Please take the time to read what I have said. Once again I'm not here to argue but to talk about things that are important to me. Thats all!

Thanks

-Adam

Adam, that's a very well-thought out and noetic post, and I have to respect that.

Let me state for the record that I don't have a problem with straight-edgers or anyone else for that matter as long as they don't have a holier than thou attitude. I have friends who have never touched drugs in their their lives, and I have friends who are herion addicts. I just want the people around me to be real. But I still don't understand the need to make a social statement because one chooses to abstain from drugs, sex, meat, etc. Actually, I'm going into a career in psychology, so I do understand why they do it; I just think that it's kind of asinine.

I don't think that anyone is trying to take an elitist attitude over the fact that many of these kids are playing in firehalls. I've played in firehalls too. I think the point that many of us are trying to get at is that many of those people think that they have the entire music biz all figured out when in fact they know very little bit about it. That's why I said that some of them need to hit up some clubs. The small hardcore scenes that spring up around here are usually very close-knit, and that's a cool thing. But, sometimes the audience can be too forgiving, and bands need to get up in front of an audience that can be somewhat indifferent just to find out if their product really is as good as they think it is.

[Primates]

I would just like to say two things.

Chaosrisingrice. First of all you go and post assumptions about straight-edge kids followed by the statement "can't we all just get along?" I'm curious as to why you feel this way. I have tons of friends who claim "edge" and still hang around kids who drink, smoke, do drugs.

Second, I would like to know what is all this talk about the "business" of music. Maybe you have mistaken it with the word "ethics" because last time I checked Vocal Youth stood for the underground music scene. I think it would be safe to say that. I also read people saying that just because a band plays firehall shows or whatnot they are not going to make it anywhere. The word "sucess" varies from person to person. To some people playing a basement is success. To some people playing an arena is success. So I don't think it's fair to say that any band won't make it anywhere especially when you don't know what success means to them. I've seen 400 kids come to a "firehall show" to support bands. 400 kids is a lot of kids. I'm just trying to give some insight/open outside opinions on some things. I'm not here to argue.

I have been a member of Vocal Youth for about 4-5 years or so and have met some sincere and genuine people from there. I have also met some super awsome and hardworking bands that have done more than "played 3 shows". Many which have toured, put out records all in DIY style. To me that is more remarkable than playing bars or corporate sponsered events. Once again that is my personal opinion. I have nothing against bands that choose to take that path. Please I'm just asking that we take the time to get to know people, bands, places, and communities before we pass judgement. To me that seems like more of a step towards "can't we all just get along" than stereotyping or trash talking on a message board. Because we all know that that achieve's nothing. Come talk to kids at the shows, let them know if you don't like what they're doing. Tell them what you would do differently. Come to a show that is held and Johnstown or held by a member of Vocal Youth and maybe you will change your mind. It's amazing how much has already been accomplished here. I know that sometimes these online forum's seem harsh or whatnot, but cmon' it's the internet and I know it isn't always the best place to go for serious talk/discussion.

Please take the time to read what I have said. Once again I'm not here to argue but to talk about things that are important to me. Thats all!

Thanks

-Adam

Adam, that's a very well-thought out and noetic post, and I have to respect that.

Let me state for the record that I don't have a problem with straight-edgers or anyone else for that matter as long as they don't have a holier than thou attitude. I have friends who have never touched drugs in their their lives, and I have friends who are herion addicts. I just want the people around me to be real. But I still don't understand the need to make a social statement because one chooses to abstain from drugs, sex, meat, etc. Actually, I'm going into a career in psychology, so I do understand why they do it; I just think that it's kind of asinine.

I don't think that anyone is trying to take an elitist attitude over the fact that many of these kids are playing in firehalls. I've played in firehalls too. I think the point that many of us are trying to get at is that many of those people think that they have the entire music biz all figured out when in fact they know very little bit about it. That's why I said that some of them need to hit up some clubs. The small hardcore scenes that spring up around here are usually very close-knit, and that's a cool thing. But, sometimes the audience can be too forgiving, and bands need to get up in front of an audience that can be somewhat indifferent just to find out if their product really is as good as they think it is.

well said bro. thank you all.

[Hunter]

Rockpage-

Greetings. My name is Matt Hunter. I am a not-too-oft poster at Vocal Youth. I am also one of the guitarists in The Apparati, a band that has been brought up in this thread a couple times. I felt obligated to post some of my thoughts here. I come with no hostility.

First off, the internet is full of assholes. I'm sure you all know this by now. NO forum is an exception. To generalize that Vocal Youth is 'full of assholes' is unfair. That's like saying America is full of assholes. Yes, we have our share, but that doesn't mean there aren't some good guys too.


"Vocal Youth is pretty much led up by this kid named Dutch who is the lead vocalist for "The Apparati" (normally i would not mention his name, but this is the third time someone has come to rockpage bitching about how disrespectful Vocal Youth is.. so I think it's time you all learned who is behind it, and know.. his entire band is this way - they're great musicians, but they're horrible people..)"

Vocal Youth is NOT led by Dutch, although he is a well known member and long time participant in the 'scene.'

I thank you for complementing our musicianship, but I am disheartened that you think our whole band is constituted by 'horrible people.' As a matter of fact, I couldn't ask for better friends than those I have in this band. Plus, I doubt I have ever met you, so how could you tell me that I am a horrible person?

I see little validity to AtoMikEnRtiA's arguments, as America as a whole is a place where we can freely discuss opinions. By simply dissing the band name 'Stuck in Kaos,' Dutch was not doing some terrible act.
"see dutch KILL: all i said was i don't like their name
Primates6sic6: alright then
see dutch KILL: you don't even really have an argument
Primates6sic6: why did you voice that opinion?
see dutch KILL: because i can
Primates6sic6: thats not a valid reason
Primates6sic6: thats what we call being an a**hole"

Seriously, you can't kill somebody over voicing their opinion. Especially when right after posting that whole conversation, you retort by saying that our band name is the worst you ever heard. That's your opinion, and you can say it, and I'm not calling you an asshole for it.

"These will be the same kids that when they are legally allowed to play in a bar or club, will spit in the club owner's face for giving them $300 to play for the first time instead of $2000."

I'm not sure how this works, as bands like us really don't even get paid $300 for the biggest shows we do.

"The wearing bandannas over your face, the brass knuckles, the whole.. street smart and gangster attitude.. you're from Johnstown.. "

I personally have never seen kids like this at any of our shows.

"songsmith wrote:
it's a real Epiphone


LMAO. I guess it's better than someone bragging that they have a real Squier."

Bashing equipment seems pious and irrelevant.

"I bet that they're probaly all straight-edge. Oh it excuse me; it's spelled xstraightxedgex. *LOL*"

Some kids are straight-edge, and really what's wrong with having a set of values that you abide by? I've never had anybody push these values upon myself.

I would like to end by stating that the insults to the scene about bands not making much money and going nowhere are kind of arrogant; it's clear that original bands do not have as much of a sellable local market as cover bands do. That isn't to say that cover bands are bad, either; my father, Bill Hunter, plays in the classic rock cover band Square One and I find it great that he can go and make money enjoying what he loves doing. I, on the other hand, am into extreme metal. That alone makes my music a lot less marketable on a local scale. However, many bands from this scene definately have potential to go places-The Caulfield Principle, Above this Fire, and The Zimmermann Note just to name a few. Just because it's harder to market local metal doesn't mean you should demean its value.

In conclusion, thanks for reading. Don't generalize, and don't be pious. We're all in this for the same reason; having fun playing music.

-Matt Hunter