Beer Bellies shut down

[bassist_25]

what are you comabatting? boozing?? loud music? ya gotta no exactly what it is that you are being deprived of as in civil liberty before you can beat it. sorry but the tide is agin ya. i don't see how it get any better. only worse. PARTEE is a four letter word..

For the love of God, please shut the fuck up.

know this idea was brought up before, and perhaps can be discussed at the meeting bassist25 is setting up; organizing a fact-finding meeting and inquiry with the local state police, asking them about their policies regarding enforcing noise laws, and expressing our concerns to them about the impact of their current enforcement campaign. It might not change anything at the offset, but it would let us know the names we have to deal with on the state police side, and also indicate to them that there are people and interests outside of the bar owners themselves who are impacted and concerned by this.

The song is also a good idea. I'd gladly play a recorded version of it on the "Backyard Rocker," and perhaps CD's could be sold at gigs to raise money for any organized grass roots efforts put together to battle this situation.

Those are great ideas, Jim. I really think the song idea is great though. I think that it would help us get our message out. Let's face it; musicians are a small demographic, and we're going to need a lot of people pulling if we want things to change. The song would help the public realize what's going on.

[no surrender]

hey i'm on YOUR side.
don't tell me to STFU.
hey, what i am saying makes sense.

You say a song would help public realize whats going on.. ok, just WHAT is going on, in your opinion? I gave mine, now give yours.

[ToonaRockGuy]

NS, what you are saying makes no sense. But if you want to know what's going on, here it is in a nutshell:

The PCLB for the past 3 years has been cracking down on bar owners on "excessive" noise violations of the PLCB code. The problem is, most of the violations have NOT come via complaint. They've come with some PLCB officer stopping by a place, deciding that it's too loud, and busting the place.

The PLCB's noice ordinance is very vague and leaves TONS of room for interperetation by the PLCB officers themselves.

The bottom line is that bar owners and musicians are under attack by the PLCB for plying our trade. All we want to do is play. All the bar owners want is to have a safe, legal place for us to play for a crowd. And that is going to be extinguished by the PLCB in the near future if they keep doing what they are doing.

For the full lowdown, NS, check out the posts here on Rockpage under the "LAW" forum. You'll get the whole story there. But please don't even try to comment on this. It's a very hot button issue here on Rockpage, and even if you don't mean any harm, you'll just end up majorly pissing off a lot of musicians. I'm not trying to be mean here, just trying to tell you how it is.

Kevin

[no surrender]

NS, what you are saying makes no sense. But if you want to know what's going on, here it is in a nutshell:

The PCLB for the past 3 years has been cracking down on bar owners on "excessive" noise violations of the PLCB code. The problem is, most of the violations have NOT come via complaint. They've come with some PLCB officer stopping by a place, deciding that it's too loud, and busting the place.

The PLCB's noice ordinance is very vague and leaves TONS of room for interperetation by the PLCB officers themselves.

The bottom line is that bar owners and musicians are under attack by the PLCB for plying our trade. All we want to do is play. All the bar owners want is to have a safe, legal place for us to play for a crowd. And that is going to be extinguished by the PLCB in the near future if they keep doing what they are doing.

For the full lowdown, NS, check out the posts here on Rockpage under the "LAW" forum. You'll get the whole story there. But please don't even try to comment on this. It's a very hot button issue here on Rockpage, and even if you don't mean any harm, you'll just end up majorly pissing off a lot of musicians. I'm not trying to be mean here, just trying to tell you how it is.

Kevin

Look i feel your pain and i am on your side..

(and i got nothing better to do now, so )

Q: has there been a significant unfavorable law change 3 yrs ago that gives PLCB more ammoo? If not, then WHY (as of 3 yrs ago) they are cracking down?? what got there attention?? why the focus now?? bars have been around forevere, and bands playing in bars.. so why they have a hardon now???

[YankeeRose]

no surrender, I've been trying my best to not write this Post...but you just can't stop being a Troll, can you? Toona/Kevin keeps feeding you Heaven knows why, I've even fed you, even though I should know better.



This is an issue once again, where you have no place pulling your BS.
People's livelihoods are at stake this time. You can read...you fully understand that the "reasons why" this has been happening for the last three years is not known. Many have offered possible reasons why and you'll just get a thrill if someone answers your redundant questions. Please, knock it off!

[no surrender]

no surrender, I've been trying my best to not write this Post...but you just can't stop being a Troll, can you? Toona/Kevin keeps feeding you Heaven knows why, I've even fed you, even though I should know better.



This is an issue once again, where you have no place pulling your BS.
People's livelihoods are at stake this time. You can read...you fully understand that the "reasons why" this has been happening for the last three years is not known. Many have offered possible reasons why and you'll just get a thrill if someone answers your redundant questions. Please, knock it off!

sweetie pie,

quit yer azz kizzing for once..

try smthg new

say smthg interesting (and relevent)

express your OWN opinion for once



(i aint hildin my breath)

[YankeeRose]

no surrender, once again you've shown you're not capable of having
true caring or compassion...this issue of problems with the PLCB isn't about "ass kissing, saying somehing new, interesting, relevant" or especially about expressing a differing or opposing opinion. There is only 1 opinion on this issue...we are against the PLCB's practices and trying to help and support the owners of the Venues and in the end all who Play there, even DJs...and as usual, you no surrender, the Troll, just don't care about anything but your own gratification.

[no surrender]

no surrender, once again you've shown you're not capable of having
true caring or compassion...this issue of problems with the PLCB isn't about "ass kissing, saying somehing new, interesting, relevant" or especially about expressing a differing or opposing opinion. There is only 1 opinion on this issue...we are against the PLCB's practices and trying to help and support the owners of the Venues and in the end all who Play there, even DJs...and as usual, you no surrender, the Troll, just don't care about anything but your own gratification.

oh, so you are against the law as it exists (we are against the PLCB's practices} ??

there practice is based in THE LAW, is it not?

not saying I am FOR IT, but just that you talk nonsense. or at least insignificance.

I ask..

WHY DOES AYONE HERE BELIEVE THE PLCB IS TARGETING BARS WITH BANDS??

it's a valid question, but you go ahead, yakkerose, and flame me all you want.

my clothes are from asbestoes! ha!

[onegunguitar]

Boy,sure sounds like YR and NS don't like each other!!!!!

[jangel]

I see this problem has flared on the board again. some of you should go to the law forum and read. Next the musicians need to get everyone the know to call their state rep and complain to get the law changed. you need to get your relatives and friends and their friends to complain and again mount an effort to remove your rep from the state. The bar owners need to join the tavern assoc. and help fight the problem. numbers speak. right now most bars don't belong to the tavern assoc. they need to.if you want to fight this everyone needs to ban together. get the law changed. griping about lost venues isn't going to change a thing.
as I stated before I own a bar and have been through it, I'm also a musician.

[tonefight]

The bar owners need to join the tavern assoc. and help fight the problem. numbers speak. right now most bars don't belong to the tavern assoc. they need to.

I didn't really know there was such a thing, and why the hell aren't they doing something ? I would think an organization like this should eb leading the fight with us as supporters.

[no surrender]

I see this problem has flared on the board again. some of you should go to the law forum and read. Next the musicians need to get everyone the know to call their state rep and complain to get the law changed. you need to get your relatives and friends and their friends to complain and again mount an effort to remove your rep from the state. The bar owners need to join the tavern assoc. and help fight the problem. numbers speak. right now most bars don't belong to the tavern assoc. they need to.if you want to fight this everyone needs to ban together. get the law changed. griping about lost venues isn't going to change a thing.
as I stated before I own a bar and have been through it, I'm also a musician.

may i ask how YOU would RE-WORD the law?

[lonewolf]

A fact finding mission?

I had already volunteered to lead a similar effort and pay a visit to the local PLCB commander's office, as long as I didn't have to go it alone. As I recall, there was not much interest as I waited for replies. More than a few people need to do this, but I doubt it would help much because....

We have to assume that the LCE district commander is compliant with the present policy. The Hollidaysburg PLCB is going to ride this rule all the way to the bank with total disregard for the casualties in their wake. The only executive remedy lies in Harrisburg with the Liquor Control Board itself. I do not believe that the 3 man LCB is aware of the havoc the Hollidaysburg office is wreaking with this vague noise rule. I also do not believe that they would uphold the actions of this rogue office if they were properly informed of the situation.

[Jim Price]

I agree with Lonewolf in suspecting that the Hollidaysburg state police branch of LCE are enforcing the noise laws to the extreme as their own rogue policy, apart from what other state police branches in the state may be doing. I also suspect that the person behind this (the district commander?) might also be the same person who was behind the Lakemont Park Wing-Off fiasco a few years ago (when the local state police ordered Lakemont Park to bar anybody between 10 and 21 years of age from attending the Wing-Off's because alcohol was being sold there). In that situation, once the PLCB in Harrisburg was alerted of the action, they ordered the local state police to reverse their decision and end the ban. This same person is the state police representative who responded to my editorial letter in the Altoona Mirror.

I would be interested in doing the "fact-finding" meeting with local state police, to present our concerns, to find out who the actual policy-maker is locally, and try to get a sense of why their enforcement policy is as extreme as it is. And, if it turns out they are unwilling to listen to our concerns, we then have more ammo to approach PLCB in Harrisburg about the possibility of a rogue action up this way; we can mention that we did attempt a meeting and report the results (or lack thereof) of that meeting.

As far as the tavern association, at least locally, I haven't heard anything about the Blair County Tavern Association in a few years. My understanding is that at least some bars are afraid to get involved because of the threat of reprisals by state police in the form of increased enforcement actions at their businesses. I'm not sure what other Tavern Associations exist in our area, or how active they are.

[GUITARII]

While preparing items to present in our defense, I think it would be worthwhile to show how much local bands are involved in the community because the reality is that ultimately, if this action continues, bands will end up leaving the area altogether. The community will suffer as well in the long run.

I think it would be nice to show the types of benefits that are played by everyone, as a donation of time, and the economical outcome of the event.

We also have to be able to present facts on citings and such, not hearsay, to include fines, occurences, whatever we can. We also should be able to show preparations bar owners have taken to avoid the violations and still received the citing and specific language used in the citing.

Lastly, I think we really need to look at the type of band or music being played when any establishment is busted. Is this happening with the bigger names in the area, specific types of music, whatever.... we have to be able to show how extreme things are getting.... I'll help do any leg work needed, fact finding, etc...

[YankeeRose]

This is the only info I have on the PLCB. In Harrisburg:
1-800-932-0602 is the Hotline Number in the phone book.
The District Office in Duncansville is: 814-693-6200, but I doubt I'm even going to bother with the local office...and I don't believe they are going to disclose any "facts" and offer assistance in any way.



I know who all of my State Representatives are. They are listed in the phone book (The "Blue Pages".), under Government & Other Public Services. Yours might depend upon your +4 Zip Code, 1 of mine did. They do need to be alerted via phone call, e-mail if one can't do that and eventually, as killjingle mentioned, snail mail.



I'm not only going to mention the unwarranted, rogue "noise violations", but also the asinine law for "underage performers", or their Friday and Saturday night gigs will soon be non-existant. The venues who support them will be fined, as they'll next go after them with a fervor...why not try to tackle it all in one fell swoop? "Under 21s are Musicians too." "What if Shania hadn't been allowed to sing?" (I believe she is from Canada, but still...) ...or something like that.



If the powers that be haven't done anything to curb the rogue citations by then, when Spring has finally sprung, in addition to all else that is being done - as long as it was legal, mind you, a good old fashioned Peaceful picket protest (Some could carry signs with a Tombstone drawn on them, the name of a place that is no longer in business due to the bogus violations, "R.I.P." on it.), possibly right out in front of either a recently targeted but still open establishment, or :egad: the Hollidaysburg Barracks, even the Capitol in Harrisburg, would definitely garner attention to what they've been doing.



JP, I had no idea about what had happeded at the Wing-Off years ago. I feel that shows someone is either going power mad or they are simply insane.



For laws to be amended, hopefully it's not too late for the Ballot in November.

[tonefight]

I'm not only going to mention the unwarranted, rogue "noise violations", but also the asinine law for "underage performers", or their Friday and Saturday night gigs will soon be non-existant. The venues who support them will be fined, as they'll next go after them with a fervor...why not try to tackle it all in one fell swoop? "Under 21s are Musicians too." "What if Shania hadn't been allowed to sing?" (I believe she is from Canada, but still...) ...or something like that.

I believe it was agreed upon before to fight 1 battle at a time and the noise violations were more important. If there are no bars left having live music it doesn't matter what age you are.

I also hope noone goes on there own without being preparred as this could hurt efforts more than help. This will need to be approached in a proffessional manner.

[jangel]

The tavern assoc is state wide. used to be each county or a couple of lless populated countys would have a branch. Over the yrs they faded away due to lack of membership. the bars if they want music as a form of entertainment for their patrons have to ban together and step up and be heard. if only a few make the move nothing will happen. same with the musicians. I think the noise ordinance is an issue that can be fought because it is not fairly policed state wide( some Lcb areas have bigger items to enforce and more bars to police than around here). more and more bars are closing because of all the regulations and taxes placed on small businesses. Maybe the bands should run some big benefits and get with the bars to donate money to the tavern assoc to specifically fight for the law change....just a thought.