Floor Monitors vs. In-Ear-Wireless Monitors

[lonewolf]

What would you rather use?

A self bi-amped floor monitor such as a JBL EON 10G2 or a set of earbuds?

I'm trying to decide which way to go and would like to hear some opinions from musicians as well as sound engineers.

What if you use a wireless headset, wireless guitar and wireless monitor? Does this mean you need a Batman style utility belt to hold all those bodypacks?

[onegunguitar]

I couldn't wear in ear monitors cause they'd fall out from headbangin'.

[Craven Sound]

One problem, you may already know this, but some earbuds are sealed so tightly that you can no longer hear crowd noise. To battle this, they point a mic toward the audience and only put it in the monitor mix. Hair Force has been using earbuds for almost a month now, here's what I've learned from them.

Pros:

Rack mounted and fairly light vs. five wedges
No more power amps
No more speaker cables
Lower stage volumes

Cons:

You have to carry lots of batteries, especially when four guys use wireless buds.
Frequency response- I'm not sure if it's the manufacturer of ours, but it seems that at lower frequencies, they peter out; specifically in the bass guitar and kick drum area.

So far, they are one of the best investments the band has made.

[lonewolf]

One problem, you may already know this, but some earbuds are sealed so tightly that you can no longer hear crowd noise. To battle this, they point a mic toward the audience and only put it in the monitor mix.

I didn't know that.

Frequency response- I'm not sure if it's the manufacturer of ours, but it seems that at lower frequencies, they peter out; specifically in the bass guitar and kick drum area.

So far, they are one of the best investments the band has made.

What brand of earbuds are they? I had read where some of the lower end buds couldn't handle lows very well. Is their system multiple mixes or one mix to all receivers?

My system would be geared to 3-piece, so a hard monitor system would consist of:

1 Shure DFR11EQ 1/2 rack 31band EQ/10 notch feedback eliminator (wired in the rack)
3 JBL Eon 10G2 self powered (biamped) cabs on the floor
3 microphone cables.

vs.

In Ear

1/2 rack single mix transmitter (wired in rack)
3 bodypacks
3 earbuds

or

2 bodypacks
2 earbuds
1 wired earbud

[Craven Sound]

I'm not sure what brand the buds themselves are, but I'll be sure to pass the info about lower end buds along. The transmitters and recievers are Nady. I was skeptical of the brand, but they seem fairly well designed. Originally, we started out with only two mixes for five guys and it turned out to be a train-wreck. We ended up using wedges here and there to supplement; we had to find a sort of common ground but left the majority of the mix decisions up to the lead singer. For our next time out, we'll have a four mix board, so I think most of the problems will clear up.

[lonewolf]

I read (about 30 different times) that the Nady systems work OK for the money, but the earbuds are pretty much $10 throwaways made by Koss.

Many people replaced them with 16 ohm Shure (E2 or E3) or Sony earbuds and it made a big difference.

[tornandfrayed]

I love the idea of the "In Ear" monitors but I am scared to death of who might be running the board. Some of the feedback I have heard recently is atrocious.

But I always figure if I can hear myself in the monitor mix anywhere but at my house it is just gravy anyway!

[Banned]

I'm a big fan of in-ear monitors.

The earbuds are crucial. A good fit is a must, so you want earbuds that sit down in the ear and form-fit to the ear canal. Once you get a good seal, there's so much clarity that you'll wonder why you ever used a wedge. I usually only wear one bud because two tightly fitted buds will block out useful ambient sounds, such as angry boyfriends sneaking up on you to kick your ass.

The versatility of your monitor mixing is also crucial. What is going out of your mains will probably sound awful in your buds. It's like trying to make a recording direct from the board using your front-of-house mix . . . it just ain't gonna sound right. So you want approach mixing for the buds from a different perspective that you would mixing for mains, or from mixing regular wedges.

We're suffering growing pains with them in HF1 primarily because our monitor mixing wasn't versatile enough. Too many people were sharing the same mix, which sucks even with wedges. And the in-ears were sharing sends with the FOH. Cheap little earbuds don't like signals that are intended for a sub!

Using them in Shift, the soundguy had the luxury of a digital board. He would clone all of the front-of-house channels to a separate bank (a whole separate virtual mixer, I s'pose), and run a completely separate mix intended specifically for headphone listening. That really highlighted how good they could be.

[lonewolf]

This system is just for 3-piece. I was planning only one mix to cover the drums, bass and guitar, assuming everybody does vocals.

Here's another twist. In smaller venues, I may not want to mic the instruments, except maybe a few drum overheads and BD. Would in-ear monitoring be a problem, since you couldn't hear the instruments?

On a side note, Rolls makes the WPM61, a VHF 1/4 rack system for $150 (4 transmitters will fit in 1 rack space). I have used Rolls stuff and its not bad, but I haven't tried these. All the reviews I read are positive and everyone I read who used Nady changed to this system.

Heh, heh, heh, to us old schoolers, monitors were just a luxury anyway. The 1st band I was in was playing 2-3 nights a week and we didn't even use monitors. Forces never used monitors until we got a few sheets of plywood, some Piezo Tweeters and some EV Force 12s. You only get one monitor mix out of a Sunn mixing board anyway.

[Punkinhead]

I can't stand in-ear monitors. Might be because I've not used them as much but, they just don't seem as effective for me. Nothing is cooler than propping your leg on a monitor as you blast away a solo or riff.

[lonewolf]

I ordered a Rolls WPM61 system from the Rolls factory B-stock webpage for $110. The B-stock webpage has most of their product line available with full warranty for about half price. Shipping is included in the price.

I'll try it on the solo system to see how it sounds. Of course, you will all be waiting anxiously for my comments...heh, heh, heh.

[HurricaneBob]

Of course, you will all be waiting anxiously for my comments...heh, heh, heh.

Id rather read about Chuck Norris...

[lonewolf]

Of course, you will all be waiting anxiously for my comments...heh, heh, heh.

Id rather read about Chuck Norris...

If I hadn't started this thread, I'd probably rather read about termite flatulation.

[songsmith]

Something that may work for earbuds...
I had an inexpensive MP3 player, and those phones truly suck (I've since received an IPOD Nano for Xmas, for the money you pay, those phones are shamefully bad). I wanted to use the darn thing while I mowed the lawn, and went through a BUNCH of different phones under $50, and finally found my solution: Radio Shack has some little silver and blue earbuds with black foam inserts on tubes that go in your ear.The black foam sucks. I got some regular old foam earplugs like I use at concerts, pushed a nail through them lengthwise and put the plugs over the tubes. They sound really good, punchy kick drum sound, VERY comfy for me, and isolate so well, the lawnmower once shut off and I didn't notice right away. I use them on the Nano now... bear in mind MP3's aren't exactly the highest fidelity, but I do have a somewhat trained ear, and I like them. Total cost: about $26.00.
I'm always looking for a cheap fix that works well, it's my nature.
I've heard good reports on the Rolls systems, as long as you don't have a 300 foot wide stage. If I had more monitor mixes on my mix-amp, I'd go in-ear in a minute. While young guys want impressive PA equipment, vets like me want it small, light, simple and cheap.---------->JMS

[ToonaRockGuy]

I played with in-ear monitors once, on a fill-in gig with an area band. And after about 3 songs, I ripped them out of my ears. I absolutely hated them. We started the first song, and I thought my snare drum was off. Checked it real quick, and it was on. I just couldn't "feel" what I was playing. Give me floor wedges any day. Just my preference, though.

[Killjingle]

I really rely on hearing myself sing live. I have a tendency to push my voice too hard if I cant hear myself. I kinda get caught up in the moment sometimes, and go a little over the top. I am curious what u find out Lonewolf.