First Shredder?

Punkinhead · Post by **Punkinhead** » Wednesday Dec 21, 2005

ZappasXWife wrote:Disagree NS, Santana, while he is my favorite guitarist he is not at all what I would call a shredder. Maybe I'm wrong, but to me a shredder plays solos with a certain amount of abandon, speed, volume, and fury. Carlos is way too smooth & controlled to be called a shredder. I stand by my original post of Jerry Lee Lewis. A shredder has to play WILD. You know, E_Ner_gY! Lasers coming out of their eyes!

Good post. Santana, while a great guitarist, is not a shredder by any means. It is debatable now whether guys like Steve Vai and Satriani even are with absolutely mind blowing players like Jason Becker (my absolute favorite now), Paul Gilbert, and Petrucci staking their claim to the title.

rocker x · Post by **rocker x** » Wednesday Dec 21, 2005

In the early days Santana had amazing fire! like on the album Moon

Flower or Love Devotion Surrender with John Mclaughlin... not to mention

some other early studio albums.... Illuminations & Oneness

ZappasXWife · Post by **ZappasXWife** » Wednesday Dec 21, 2005

Those are the albums I am MOST familiar with and I still disagree. Too SMOOTH. Man I love him....

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Wednesday Dec 21, 2005

rocker x wrote: Love Devotion Surrender with John Mclaughlin

One of my early training albums.

Punkinhead · Post by **Punkinhead** » Wednesday Dec 21, 2005

rocker x wrote:In the early days Santana had amazing fire! like on the album Moon

Flower or Love Devotion Surrender with John Mclaughlin... not to mention

some other early studio albums.... Illuminations & Oneness

Carlos Santana is not a shredder. I have heard most of his stuff and he isn't. There is no denying that he is a great guitarist but, this post is about shredding, not greatness. The two are not always the same thing.

Banned · Post by **Banned** » Wednesday Dec 21, 2005

Punkinhead, I am an old schooler rock fan. I really am interested in your definition of a shredder.

Johnny MacLaughlin and Carlos really played with wild abandon on some of those 70's fusion recordings. there was fantastic speed and wild arpeggio runs all over the guitar. What was technically not shredding about their playing?

Punkinhead · Post by **Punkinhead** » Thursday Dec 22, 2005

undercoverjoe wrote:Punkinhead, I am an old schooler rock fan. I really am interested in your definition of a shredder.

Johnny MacLaughlin and Carlos really played with wild abandon on some of those 70's fusion recordings. there was fantastic speed and wild arpeggio runs all over the guitar. What was technically not shredding about their playing?

The best definitions that I can give are Paul Gilbert, Jason Becker, Yngwie, John Petrucci. Here is my point on Carlos Santana (not so much on John MacLaughlin):

He is a great guitarist, as I've said three times already. But in today's shred circles when a guy like Satriani or someone like Steve Vai are not considered to be shredders (virtuoso yes, shredder no) then that to me rules out everyone who can't hang with the "shredders" of the 80's through today, where you attain speeds of 32nd notes in the range of 130 beats per minute easily and frequently (meanging to do it for six notes in a solo and never again doesn't count), if not faster. It's not just arpeggios to be a shredder either. It's the whole package - arpeggios, killer pick hand, amazing legato, unreal tapping, etc, etc.....

I get most of this from my stint in the Shred Net International Web Shred Ring, of which one of my bands was a part of (to add a metal influence). It contains the official homepages of Jason Becker, Yngwie, James Murphy, and about 200 others. That is where I got the definition that I use to define shredding (which really is stupid if you ask me...it's all a labeling game).

Truthfully, I love Santana and MacLaughlin and could care less if they are shredders or not. Santana has more soul in two notes than Yngwie does in 200. But, by today's standards, they aren't - in my opinion. But, it really doesn't matter to me. If that is shredding to you, fine, that's yours to think it. It's mine to think it not. In the scheme of things it matters very little.

YankeeRose · Post by **YankeeRose** » Thursday Dec 22, 2005

"Santana has more Soul in two notes than Yngwie does in 200"...Amen!

Jimi Hendrix is the first one that came to mind when I read the Topic.

witchhunt · Post by **witchhunt** » Thursday Dec 22, 2005

Gotta include Mark and John Gallagher of Raven.

FretBored · Post by **FretBored** » Thursday Dec 22, 2005

I think Shredding started when great blues men, like Freddie King and Albert King plugged into Electric Amps and put away the Acoustics.

I'm working on a composition called Hideaway and realize there are a lot of riffs picked up by SRV, Clapton and other shredders.

I feel early Electric Bluesmen spearheaded shredding.

Banned · Post by **Banned** » Thursday Dec 22, 2005

Thanks Punkinhead, a very good answer. I love the Santana and MacLaughlin stuff from that era also. My personal favorite is Oneness, by Devadip Carlos Santana, especially the title track "Oneness"

Fretboard, don't forget that jazz cats were picking up electric guitars about the same time as the blues guys.

I have heard early jazz horns ripping up, and can we call sax and trumpet and clarinet players shredders?

FretBored · Post by **FretBored** » Thursday Dec 22, 2005

undercoverjoe wrote:Thanks Punkinhead, a very good answer. I love the Santana and MacLaughlin stuff from that era also. My personal favorite is Oneness, by Devadip Carlos Santana, especially the title track "Oneness"

Fretboard, don't forget that jazz cats were picking up electric guitars about the same time as the blues guys.

I have heard early jazz horns ripping up, and can we call sax and trumpet and clarinet players shredders?

Wolf I agree... my point is that electronics and amplification had a lot to do with creating a shredder. One of my favorites is Santana's Europa.

Banned · Post by **Banned** » Thursday Dec 22, 2005

Hey!!! Who is the best shredder around here??

Maybe this should be a new topic?

Starr · Post by **Starr** » Thursday Dec 22, 2005

JIMI HAAAAATTT! woo hooooo...

Banned · Post by **Banned** » Thursday Dec 22, 2005

Starr wrote:JIMI HAAAAATTT! woo hooooo...

A real conversation between me and UCJoe:

undercoverjoe (while strumming around on my stage guitars): "Wow, you have these set up with really high action for a shred guitar."

Jimi: "Yeah. It's a good thing no shredders ever play them."

I fall into the Santana knows-how-to-play-but-can't-shred-his-way-out-of-a-paper-bag school of guitar playing.

Starr · Post by **Starr** » Thursday Dec 22, 2005

Ah come on. Don't be so hard on yourself...as you can tell I don't know a shredder from hole in the ground, unless he belongs to the TMNT. Anyway, if I want to nominate you for the fuckin' shredder for the area, I'm gonna do it....mwas...

Banned · Post by **Banned** » Thursday Dec 22, 2005

Jimi Hatt wrote:
Starr wrote:JIMI HAAAAATTT! woo hooooo...

A real conversation between me and UCJoe:

undercoverjoe (while strumming around on my stage guitars): "Wow, you have these set up with really high action for a shred guitar."

Jimi: "Yeah. It's a good thing no shredders ever play them."

I fall into the Santana knows-how-to-play-but-can't-shred-his-way-out-of-a-paper-bag school of guitar playing.

Yes I remeber that conversation.

Are Eddie V and Randy Rhodes shredders?

You play their music as well as anybody I've ever seen.

If they are shredders, ergo u be shredding dude.