While there were bits and pieces by this band and that band and lyrics here and the 1st spoken "heavy metal" there...the 1st distortion here and the shredded speakers there...these were only bits and pieces....
Black Sabbath was the undoubted 1st band that was unquestionably all-metal from day one, album 1. No other band from the era had 99% metal tracks. They defined the genre and while others may have used distortion, Iommi's smooth semi-scooped sound was unique and already evolved.
Everywhere in the thread, you see: "well if you consider this the 1st time..." or "if you consider these guys"...
If you have to ask these kinds of questions, the answer is a resounding "NO"
Heavy Metal Question
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YankeeRose
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lonewolf
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Yep Rose, acid and I think they called Iron Butterfly psychadelic rock. I plea the 5th on that one.YankeeRose wrote:Point well made, lonewolf. Wasn't the style of Music, or Genre of quite a few of the Bands mentioned in this Thread called "Acid Rock" at one time? NO, I never did it.
Wanted to, but never did, LOL!
I always considered Led Zep the band that transformed Rock & Roll into Rock. I have every one of their albums on vinyl and I can't think of one song that is decidedly metal as opposed to hard rock. Page's guitar tone defined the new sound of rock and it was distinctly different from metal.
...Oh, the freedom of the day that yielded to no rule or time...
Led Zep's metal....
Dazed and Confused
Whole Lotta Love
Heartbreaker
Moby Dick
Immigrant Song
Out On The Tiles
Black Dog
Rock and Roll
The Crunge
The Ocean
Achilles Last Stand
Nobodies Fault But Mine
Custard Pie
The Rover
In My Time of Dying
In The Evening
Wearing and Tearing.........
Just off the top o' my head, LOL!
Dazed and Confused
Whole Lotta Love
Heartbreaker
Moby Dick
Immigrant Song
Out On The Tiles
Black Dog
Rock and Roll
The Crunge
The Ocean
Achilles Last Stand
Nobodies Fault But Mine
Custard Pie
The Rover
In My Time of Dying
In The Evening
Wearing and Tearing.........
Just off the top o' my head, LOL!
You don't shoot a man in the dick!
I found Geezer's quote, for anyone that's interested.
"Another prevailing influence on Sabbath by then, Geezer recalled, was Led Zeppelin. 'They sort of paved the way for us,' he explained. 'We used to get compared to them alot in those days. But they very much started the genre. For a time, it was ALL we listened to, you know, lying down on the floor, smoking our dope, and listening to Zeppelin.'"
According to Butler, Zep crept into Sabbath's music in all sorts of ways. "I mean, when we did 'Paranoid' I said to Tony, 'It's too much like Zeppelin, we can't do that.' They really had to coax me into it."
"Another prevailing influence on Sabbath by then, Geezer recalled, was Led Zeppelin. 'They sort of paved the way for us,' he explained. 'We used to get compared to them alot in those days. But they very much started the genre. For a time, it was ALL we listened to, you know, lying down on the floor, smoking our dope, and listening to Zeppelin.'"
According to Butler, Zep crept into Sabbath's music in all sorts of ways. "I mean, when we did 'Paranoid' I said to Tony, 'It's too much like Zeppelin, we can't do that.' They really had to coax me into it."
You don't shoot a man in the dick!
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lonewolf
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I have played at least half of these songs in bands and I don't see a metal song listed here, although I see a few with bar slide and one called ROCK AND ROLL!Bag wrote:Led Zep's metal....
Dazed and Confused
Whole Lotta Love
Heartbreaker
Moby Dick
Immigrant Song
Out On The Tiles
Black Dog
Rock and Roll
The Crunge
The Ocean
Achilles Last Stand
Nobodies Fault But Mine
Custard Pie
The Rover
In My Time of Dying
In The Evening
Wearing and Tearing.........
Just off the top o' my head, LOL!
...Oh, the freedom of the day that yielded to no rule or time...
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SpellboundByMetal
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no surrender
Great post. "A bustle in the hedgerow" doesn't sound to scary to me either.SpellboundByMetal wrote:one thing that makes metal actually METAL, is the attitude. Sabbath's music had the attitude. it was dark, distorted, and pissed people off. sounds like metal to me!
Zepplin is Rock. Metal dudes dont frolic on stage.
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no surrender
who says it supposed to be?undercoverjoe wrote:Great post. "A bustle in the hedgerow" doesn't sound to scary to me either.SpellboundByMetal wrote:one thing that makes metal actually METAL, is the attitude. Sabbath's music had the attitude. it was dark, distorted, and pissed people off. sounds like metal to me!
Zepplin is Rock. Metal dudes dont frolic on stage.
earth to undercover, do you copy?
ps ozzy is a cartoon.
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J Michaels
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True - Ozzy IS a cartoon. I liked it so muchmore when America was scared to death of him. Now he's America's fucking sweetheart, and it makes me just shake my head in disgust and sorrow for what was once such an icon of all that was metal.
But Sabbath is the first metal band in large part to what Ozzy WAS, not what he IS.
But Sabbath is the first metal band in large part to what Ozzy WAS, not what he IS.
You better call me a doctor - feelin' no pain!
NSwipe, no one said the lyrics of Zeppelin have to be scary. It was called sarcasm, which one needs a scad of intelligence to understand.
I was agreeing with SpellboundbyMetal that Zep is not one of the first Metal bands because no metal band frolics on stage.
Singing "there is a bustle in the hedgerow" does not sound very metal to me.
I was agreeing with SpellboundbyMetal that Zep is not one of the first Metal bands because no metal band frolics on stage.
Singing "there is a bustle in the hedgerow" does not sound very metal to me.
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no surrender
i got your sarcasm. thanks. did you get mine.. i sent it special deliv'undercoverjoe wrote:NSwipe, no one said the lyrics of Zeppelin have to be scary. It was called sarcasm, which one needs a scad of intelligence to understand.
I was agreeing with SpellboundbyMetal that Zep is not one of the first Metal bands because no metal band frolics on stage.
Singing "there is a bustle in the hedgerow" does not sound very metal to me.
zep doesn't "frolic' dude. and, yes, they don't 'scare' women and children like B.S. (interesting initials haha)
zep was talented enough to do it all. COMMUNICATION BREAKDOWN (THREE versions) .. METAL enough for you!!!
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tornandfrayed
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Here we go
I would have to agree that Black Sabbath are the original godfathers of Heavy Metal.
Just like the Rolling Stones spawned Rock'N'Roll and the Beatles spawned Pop Rock, BS did indeed take it a step further and due to their dilligence we now have a true Heavy Metal lineage.
Zeppelin, one of my favorites, just does not seem to fit the heavy metal category. Sure thunderous guitars and a wailing vocal but they are always Rock to me.
I also agree that metal has a lot to do with the attitude and presentation of the band.
Zeppelin had that "Hippy" thing going and think that negates any claim to metal that their music might mandate.
Just like the Rolling Stones spawned Rock'N'Roll and the Beatles spawned Pop Rock, BS did indeed take it a step further and due to their dilligence we now have a true Heavy Metal lineage.
Zeppelin, one of my favorites, just does not seem to fit the heavy metal category. Sure thunderous guitars and a wailing vocal but they are always Rock to me.
I also agree that metal has a lot to do with the attitude and presentation of the band.
Zeppelin had that "Hippy" thing going and think that negates any claim to metal that their music might mandate.
Torn & Frayed
One World, One Voice, One God!
Music is LIFE!
One World, One Voice, One God!
Music is LIFE!
When I listen to Zep the heaviness of the bass and drums are powerful. Maybe some of the heaviest druming and bass at that time. It ages well 30 some years later.
Page's distorted guitar tone still is the benchmark for heavy rock today.
This will probably get me some flack, but....I think Plant sounds like a girly man.
Page's distorted guitar tone still is the benchmark for heavy rock today.
This will probably get me some flack, but....I think Plant sounds like a girly man.
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SpellboundByMetal
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bassist_25
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Another thing is that I generally don't think of Metal as having 12 bar patterns, whereas a lot of Rock does stick to the tired and true 12 bar and 16 bar chord progressions. Actually, give Rain Song a listen. It's actually a very well disguised 12 bar.
"He's the electric horseman, you better back off!" - old sKool making a reference to the culturally relevant 1979 film.
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bassist_25
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And it also should be considered that when someone said that music was "heavy", they didn't mean it in the popular sense of dark sounding music with lots of distortion. "Heavy" meant that the artist was saying something beyond what was happening in the mainstream; they were saying something really deep. Miles was heavy, as was Bird and Monk. Actually, Monk's music was really heavy. Nobody heard anyone play the piano like that. Using that definition, Hendrix's music was VERY heavy. A lot of the old Jazz/Blues lexicon is still in use today; it has just evolved a little bit.
"He's the electric horseman, you better back off!" - old sKool making a reference to the culturally relevant 1979 film.
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YankeeRose
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SpellboundByMetal wrote:i dont like Zep and i dont like Plant/Page. Yeah, he sounds girly. i just cant get anything out of their songs.
J'ever notice quite a few of Zep's tunes have "Lord Of The Rings" references in the Lyrics? I never read the books, but when the flicks were out, I caught that much from Publicity.
Plant may sound like a girly man in some tunes, but in others, he sounds like anything else! Just ONE example: "When The Levee Breaks". "Girly man"? Not to this red-blooded American woman's ears! It's called "Vocal Range". 
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no surrender
Plant has a higher vocal, so what? Guess you think Axl's vocal is girl too?SpellboundByMetal wrote:i dont like Zep and i dont like Plant/Page. Yeah, he sounds girly. i just cant get anything out of their songs.
and i can guess you don't like Jagger & the stones cause he acts "girly"? same with Tyler of aerosmith, girly too right? what do you think of Rob Haller of judeus priest?? huh? care to answer? my guess is if it doesn't GROWL in incoherence you don't like it.
ZEP RULZZZZZZ !!
aalways wil !
Don't forget that we're having this discussion 35 years removed from the birth of heavy metal, and our opinions are going to be clouded by what metal evolved into. Hendrix or Zeppelin may not sound very metal by today's standards, but in their day they were shockingly heavy. I think if you time-warped back to the 70s and asked a rock fan or critic if Zeppelin was "heavy metal", they'd give you an unqualified "yes".
Heck, I've heard modern metal fans state that Sabbath, Judas Priest, and the Scorpions aren't really metal - they're classic rock.
For my money, Sabbath is the first metal band. Aside from being "heavy", they were the first band to focus on "dark" subject matter. Before Sabbath, rock music didn't really deal with anything darker than "my woman done left me".
(As far as Plant goes, I generally like his vocals better on his solo work. He could sometimes be spastic and unfocused in Zeppelin, but he eventually reined himself in and got more in touch with the song.)
Heck, I've heard modern metal fans state that Sabbath, Judas Priest, and the Scorpions aren't really metal - they're classic rock.
For my money, Sabbath is the first metal band. Aside from being "heavy", they were the first band to focus on "dark" subject matter. Before Sabbath, rock music didn't really deal with anything darker than "my woman done left me".
(As far as Plant goes, I generally like his vocals better on his solo work. He could sometimes be spastic and unfocused in Zeppelin, but he eventually reined himself in and got more in touch with the song.)