Organizing a law changing event. Pass the word please

kickinband · Post by **kickinband** » Monday Dec 05, 2005

I own the Country Inn in South Fork, Pa. I am now being harrassed by the PLCE about noise violations. It is getting to the point now that I am getting citations for loud noise with just the jukebox on a very low volume. I must have a neighbor that knows the laws of the PLCB and is using it to try to close me down. The state law that says its a violation to hear anything outside the walls of a licensed establishment is totally not capable of happening. No matter how much you try to insulate a building, getting it to be completely sound proof is impossible. I explained this to the state liqour enforcement officers the other night and they told me sorry, thats the law. I am now organizing a meeting with Federal and local government officials along with all the local media stations in the area and all tavern owners, musicians, and listeners of music that want to voice there opionions about this old law that needs to be re written. We just need a fair law thats the same across the Commonwealth of Pa. To many times I've been in Philly, Pittsburgh, Dubois, and other establishments where I can here the sound of music for many city blocks. We need to fight together and not stop till we change this law. I'm sure we can come up with a law that is more concrete than a state policemans ear. If we had a decibel figure that we should not exceed, I could live with that. If I exceed it, they should have to prove it to me on the spot. That way its fair for everyone in the business, across the state. If you want on board with me to take this fight to Harrisburg, email me at steve@countryinnbar.com
Thank you

RamRod 1 · Post by **RamRod 1** » Monday Dec 05, 2005

WOW Steve, sounds really serious! I thought that it did go by a db meter. I play your club with "White Shadow". I'll be tuning in!

Banned · Post by **Banned** » Monday Dec 05, 2005

By Kickinback's post, then every bar with a TV and a Steelers game on would also be heard outside.

I think the PLCB has something against live music. Elvis would have never got his start in Pa.

Viva la Pelt · Post by **Viva la Pelt** » Monday Dec 05, 2005

I cant believe its coming to this, i mean they already shut down a very good club in Johnstown (shooters)for the same reasons and who knows how far it will go! Whats next a tax and a permit to play in a club!!!! This shit is out of control !!

YankeeRose · Post by **YankeeRose** » Monday Dec 05, 2005

If you happen to have Signs, Flyers or Petitions you need Posted, I'll gladly help and whatever else is needed in the way of phone calls to
PA State Congress Members or Senators...and a trip to Harrisburg, if it's on a day I can, most definitely! I already sent an e-mail, but figured I'd Post so others will do it too...this is long over-due...how about the age to play in a Bar/Club issue, too? It would be great to overhaul the PLCB's whole BS system!

plumcrazy · Post by **plumcrazy** » Tuesday Dec 06, 2005

It's about time that someone did something to try to fix this problem, Kudos to you kickin!!!!

AtoMikEnRtiA · Post by **AtoMikEnRtiA** » Tuesday Dec 06, 2005

Viva la Pelt wrote:I cant believe its coming to this, i mean they already shut down a very good club in Johnstown (shooters)for the same reasons and who knows how far it will go! Whats next a tax and a permit to play in a club!!!! This shit is out of control !!

you watch. that'll happen..

AtoMikEnRtiA · Post by **AtoMikEnRtiA** » Tuesday Dec 06, 2005

YankeeRose wrote:If you happen to have Signs, Flyers or Petitions you need Posted, I'll gladly help and whatever else is needed in the way of phone calls to
PA State Congress Members or Senators...and a trip to Harrisburg, if it's on a day I can, most definitely! I already sent an e-mail, but figured I'd Post so others will do it too...this is long over-due...how about the age to play in a Bar/Club issue, too? It would be great to overhaul the PLCB's whole BS system!

As somebody who lives about 30 minutes from Harrisburg. I'm down for just organizing a group of rockpagers, and musicians - because trust me, i could get roughly 300 musicians throughout the harrisburg area .. and we should just make a petition, photocopy it so it's the same, and place it in every bar in the area - once we get an official number for a legal, peaceful petition - present it to the state - if that don't work. we find a way to without breaking the law.. fight the system. The PLCB has constantly fucked live music in the ass for years - and it's even worse for U-21 bands, who cant even get in a fucking bar to play - means we have to go out of state.. it's time something is done here

byndrsn · Post by **byndrsn** » Tuesday Dec 06, 2005

Wow, how many times has this issue been brought up on here!!

I'm hoping that this time someone actually makes some headway. PLCB needs to be held accountable, and it will be one hell of a fight but it is one that could be won if done properly.

Petitions? They don't work. They are usually ignored completely. There needs to be an organized effort and voices need to be heard (calm, cool, well thought out arguments and discussions - not angry mob voices).

I don't know what branch of government controls the PLCB. Do the laws go through the house and senate? If so, what committee reviews proposed legislation and who is the chair of that committee? Are there sub-committees involved? You would need to get a member of either the house or senate (preferably one of each) to sponsor a bill, then there needs to be a push to get co-sponsors. Then it goes to committee.

Also, although I understand the "age to play" argument, don't confuse the two issues. They are completely separate. If you want to change the noise laws, then go after that - if you want to change age restrictions, then go after that. If you try to do both with one swipe - you will not get anywhere, I can assure you that you will fail.

Also, don't try once and give up, it is easier to get a new law established (even a stupid one) than it is to get the same law repealed or changed!!! Most repeals or changes don't go anywhere on their first introduction - be prepared to fight this for a while!!

It sounds like "Kickinband" has the right ideas!!

Jones · Post by **Jones** » Tuesday Dec 06, 2005

Viva la Pelt wrote:I cant believe its coming to this, i mean they already shut down a very good club in Johnstown (shooters)for the same reasons and who knows how far it will go! Whats next a tax and a permit to play in a club!!!! This shit is out of control !!

Sadly this has just happened in the Borough of Clearfield. They've slapped an entertainment tax on club owners. Don't quote me on these numbers, but its something like 10 percent of the door or if no cover, a percentage of the bars sales for the night. When will it stop!

Post by **Jim Price** » Tuesday Dec 06, 2005

I'm trying to go through the PLCB website to find out information about who the PLCB answers to. It's pretty difficult, as they recently updated their website and a lot of the links no longer work. Under "PLCB Facts and Figures" on their general information PDF document, "Overall policy is determined by three Board members appointed by the Governor to serve staggered four-year terms."

Those current board members are: Jonathan H. Newman, Chairman; Patrick J. Stapleton III; and Thomas F. Goldsmith. The current secretary of the board is John D. W. Reiley.

"The Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board is comprised of three members appointed by the Governor and ratified by a two-thirds vote in the state Senate. No more than two Board members may be from the same political party as the Governor. Members are appointed to staggered four-year terms ending on the third Tuesday in May. Actions and orders of the Board require the approval of at least two members. The law also provides for a Secretary to be appointed by the Board, with the approval of the Governor. The Board Secretary performs general duties at the direction of the Board to coordinate Board activities. In all of its actions, the Board is subject to the provisions of the Administrative Code of 1929 as well as the Pennsylvania Liquor Code."

Going by the above, it appears the PLCB answers to the Senate and the Governor.

To view the PLCB website, here is the link:

http://www.lcb.state.pa.us

To view the Pennsylvania Liquor Code, here is the link:

http://www.pacode.com

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Tuesday Dec 06, 2005

You want petitions? We got petitions. You want legal arguments? We got precedent case law. You want a new noise rule? We got a new noise rule written up with justification. Here's the football:

http://www.rockpage.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=3777

Post by **Ron** » Tuesday Dec 06, 2005

Moved to the law forum.
Along with all of the other posts concerning the LCB gestapo.

moxham123 · Post by **moxham123** » Monday Dec 12, 2005

Here is a link to the PA state legislature on how to make or change laws.

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/VC/vi ... /intro.htm

moxham123 · Post by **moxham123** » Monday Dec 12, 2005

Here is a link to the PLCB "How to file a Complaint" section. Notice the first item regarding noise complaints. How is it that noise inside the building falls under the jurisdiction of the PLCB and outside the business is the local police?

http://www.psp.state.pa.us/blce/cwp/vie ... 111086#VIO

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Organizing a law changing event. Pass the word please

Organizing a law changing event. Pass the word please

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