DJ's vs Bands

quibbs0 · Post by **quibbs0** » Saturday Dec 03, 2005

Hey everyone...

I read a post recently about why bars get DJ's. All in all it comes to the conclusion that DJ's are always there and bands cancel sometimes so they aren't reliable.

Well what happens when a bar cancels on a band? We lost our Thanksgiving Eve and New Years Eve shows at the same place after we had already worked them out atleast a month prior.

Obviously this is pretty annoying because we lost atleast one major event and now are screwed out of New Years.

Any thoughts? Anybody experienced this before?

Banned · Post by **Banned** » Saturday Dec 03, 2005

DJ's = Lame my friend. Unless you pop & lock or enjoy karaoke they are useless, but they certainly do bring out young twats.

SpellboundByMetal · Post by **SpellboundByMetal** » Saturday Dec 03, 2005

you dont seem to repect much, do you woofburger? maybe you respect spandex shorts, and anything endorsed by tony little. do you grease yourself up and pose in a mirror? i bet you do. still getting protein shake enemas?

Banned · Post by **Banned** » Saturday Dec 03, 2005

SpellboundByMetal wrote:you dont seem to repect much, do you woofburger? maybe you respect spandex shorts, and anything endorsed by tony little. do you grease yourself up and pose in a mirror? i bet you do. still getting protein shake enemas?

I have a fetish about wearing spandex showing off a big bulge down there. It also turns me on to wear a Spider-Man costume and I would love to have ladies beat me up in such a costume. And I would be thrilled if I got kicked in nuts by ladies.

quibbs0 · Post by **quibbs0** » Sunday Dec 04, 2005

Obviously you misunderstood me.

I'm in a band that had our gigs cancelled.

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Sunday Dec 04, 2005

Excellent topic and one that deserves a lot of discussion!!!!

I don't know why you got cancelled, what club cancelled you, or what circumstances are surrounding your cancellation. It may have been a legitimate reason (or not), so what I'm about to say isn't directed at that club or club owner in particular but rather is a general commentary.

Bands need to hold club owners responsible. What I mean is that if a club screws a band/performer, then that club shouldn't get off scott-free. Prior to me joining my current band, there was an issue where a club refused to pay up after a gig. I won't go into the details, but a search into the RP archives will explain everything. My bandmates could have taken the club to small claims court, but they decided to do something even more damaging: They told every band, performer, and artist about how this club screwed them. They did all but totally destroy this club. The couple of hundred dollars that this club gained that night is nothing compared to the revenue it has lost since (which I would venture to guess goes into the tens or even hundreds of thousands) it can't book a band to save its life. Remember, clubs can also be blackballed the same way performers can be blackballed.

Also, bands need to have some sense of self-worth. Obviously, if you're in a new band and you walk into a club demanding $900 for your first night, you're going to get laughed out on the street. But, don't go and book shows for chicken scratch just so you can get up on stage. By doing that, you're inadvertantly slitting my throat in the process. By taking less money, you're lowering the market price of your (and everyone else's) product. Established bands have more leverage when naming their price, but it's going to be more difficult for up and coming bands to make decent money.

Again, I'm not saying that any of this applies to the particular club that cancelled you, but it's more of a general statement.

FretBored · Post by **FretBored** » Sunday Dec 04, 2005

Yeah I like Music and don't care much for money... Good Luck!

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Sunday Dec 04, 2005

FretBored wrote:Yeah I like Music and don't care much for money... Good Luck!

Then play freebies and leave clubs to the professional musicians.

redawg · Post by **redawg** » Sunday Dec 04, 2005

One of the main reasons clubs hire a DJ over a band is money. The average club DJ should be charging $150. a night. Any DJ that charges less is doing what bassist_25 said, lowering the DJ's market price. I want to make it known to all of Rockpage that even though I'm a DJ, I am a musician first. I know how easy it would be for me to take gigs from bands. It's hard for a club to resist paying out $150. for entertainment as opposed to paying out $300.+ (clubs should make sure bands make at least that). I only play at one club every week, Tuesday through Saturday (The Castle Pub). When The Castle did have bands I wasn't out doing DJ gigs on the weekends, I was running sound and lights for less money than I would have made doing a DJ gig (I didn't care for one second, I loved running sound and lights). I DJ'd some Fridays at Shooters in Johnstown for a couple of months, I did Tuesdays at The Pony Lounge for a few years and I did less than a handfull of DJ shows at other clubs in the last 5 years. I do not go out and try to take gigs from bands. I also want to say that gazoo's idea of spinning local band's cds at their DJ shows is AWSOME, BRILLIANT, WHY DIDN'T I THINK OF THAT. I have decided to do the same at my DJ gigs. Damn is that a great idea gazoo

Punkinhead · Post by **Punkinhead** » Sunday Dec 04, 2005

Contracts, contracts, contracts.

FretBored · Post by **FretBored** » Sunday Dec 04, 2005

bassist_25 wrote:
FretBored wrote:Yeah I like Music and don't care much for money... Good Luck!
Then play freebies and leave clubs to the professional musicians.

OK Thanks for the Pro. Advice.

RobTheDrummer · Post by **RobTheDrummer** » Sunday Dec 04, 2005

I would rather see a shitty band than a DJ any day.

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Monday Dec 05, 2005

FretBored wrote:
bassist_25 wrote:
FretBored wrote:Yeah I like Music and don't care much for money... Good Luck!
Then play freebies and leave clubs to the professional musicians.
OK Thanks for the Pro. Advice.

Your attitude is why bands allow themselves to get fucked up the ass. If you want to get anal raped, then that's your business. Don't make me drop the soap in the process, though.

kissmydagoass · Post by **kissmydagoass** » Monday Dec 05, 2005

I'm kind of middle road on this due to paticular experiences I had working up in State College. The girls I worked with always, always, always wanted to go to Players. Myself, our male massage therapist, and one other girl hated Players absolutely hated the place. One year after the Christmas party one of my bosses asked if I wanted to go to Players with them and my exact words were "I wouldn't be caught dead in that place." So our monthly Saturday night out was always a joy because we would spend most of it haggling over where the hell we were going to go. Finally we found the solution to our problem. We started going to the Saloon. They had a dj from the time there two hour drink special started till the time it ended and then a live band the rest of the evening. You have to come to terms with the fact that there is a viable market for dj's that's just the way things are. Alot of girls like to shake their thangs to 50 cent. (Even me after a few $2 long island ice teas.) You also have to face that fact that a lot guys like watching the above. I think the Saloon was really smart for giving their crowd both. If it was strictly a dj I wouldn't want to go. If it was strictly a band my friends wouldn't want to go. Going to some place that had both actually allowed everyone to have a good time. Just my opinion from experience.

rain wolf · Post by **rain wolf** » Monday Dec 05, 2005

I agree that bars should also be held responsible for agreements that they make. I don't know HOW many times i have been ripped off at the door by bars. or better yet, (one of my pet peeves) i've showed up at a bar,(or two) and they said, oh, you have to have your own doorman, about five minutes before we are supposed to start the gig. i also played a fair once where the lady that was supposed to pay us gave a check to someone to give to us for 200 less than it was supposed to be, and left, and never answered a phone call or anything. we found out we were not the only band that she did that to. i agree with the statement that as bands, we have to work together and spread the word, not naming names on boards like this, but when meeting eachother around the area. in my experience, it's almost impossible to get contracts signed through the mail. hopefully in another 5 or so years, everything will be done through the internet, and you can keep email records... you tell the bar, here's my website, we would like to play blah blah blah. then the bar checks your mp3's, sees where you have played, your style, or whatever the hell they 'check', and emails you back. then you wouldn't have to mail demos. but WAIT, that's about when the government will start charging to send emails.... that's a whole different issue tho... luckily, in my experience, the good gigs have outnumbered the bad by far, and the trustworthy bar owners have outnumbered the cheapskates. word does get out, and what goes around comes around. just be the better man/woman, and keep doing good business yourself, so that bands don't get a bad rep in return... rock n roll...

Banned · Post by **Banned** » Monday Dec 05, 2005

I've been playing for many years and got dicked out of dates and dicked out of money.

I took the passive way out and just didn't bother with that particular club. Of course I told peers about the situation and whether that really did anything, I don't know.

Clubs should be responsible, but more often than not, they aren't which is unfortunate for us musicians.

Contracts could work, BUT, unless you are an agency band with an agency contract, I don't think that will hold too much water. I've been fucked out of those too. That's just my opinion and experience with contracts.

I still say that if bands remain professional and organized that might help clubs get the message. I've helped several clubs make things easier for bands like mounting hooks for running snake and power cables, installing a power disconnect and the like. Once it was explained to those clubowners what the benefits were by doing these things, I've had an open invitation to go back with any project I happen to get together.

Anyway, other than trashing the club, what really can be done about this situation?

I was always in favor of a (forgive me here) "union" or should I say at least a loose organization where bands could "band" together to stop the endless ass fucks we all get and have gotten.

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Monday Dec 05, 2005

rain wolf wrote:I agree that bars should also be held responsible for agreements that they make. I don't know HOW many times i have been ripped off at the door by bars. or better yet, (one of my pet peeves) i've showed up at a bar,(or two) and they said, oh, you have to have your own doorman, about five minutes before we are supposed to start the gig. i also played a fair once where the lady that was supposed to pay us gave a check to someone to give to us for 200 less than it was supposed to be, and left, and never answered a phone call or anything. we found out we were not the only band that she did that to. i agree with the statement that as bands, we have to work together and spread the word, not naming names on boards like this, but when meeting eachother around the area. in my experience, it's almost impossible to get contracts signed through the mail. hopefully in another 5 or so years, everything will be done through the internet, and you can keep email records... you tell the bar, here's my website, we would like to play blah blah blah. then the bar checks your mp3's, sees where you have played, your style, or whatever the hell they 'check', and emails you back. then you wouldn't have to mail demos. but WAIT, that's about when the government will start charging to send emails.... that's a whole different issue tho... luckily, in my experience, the good gigs have outnumbered the bad by far, and the trustworthy bar owners have outnumbered the cheapskates. word does get out, and what goes around comes around. just be the better man/woman, and keep doing good business yourself, so that bands don't get a bad rep in return... rock n roll...

Well said!!!!

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Monday Dec 05, 2005

bugglez24 wrote: I was always in favor of a (forgive me here) "union" or should I say at least a loose organization where bands could "band" together to stop the endless ass fucks we all get and have gotten.

My father was part of the union, but I never felt a need to join it. Obviously, if I were on the road or playing in Nashville, being in the union would be a must. Around here though, I don't know if being in the union would make much sense. Sometimes you can wind up losing money by being in the union if the club owner decides that he/she only has to pay you scale.

FretBored · Post by **FretBored** » Monday Dec 05, 2005

Fender has some good information on booking shows, dealing with Club owners and how to cover your ass...

Here is the link if interested.

http://www.fenderplayersclub.com/front_ ... ok_gig.htm

AtoMikEnRtiA · Post by **AtoMikEnRtiA** » Monday Dec 05, 2005

rain wolf wrote:I agree that bars should also be held responsible for agreements that they make. I don't know HOW many times i have been ripped off at the door by bars. or better yet, (one of my pet peeves) i've showed up at a bar,(or two) and they said, oh, you have to have your own doorman, about five minutes before we are supposed to start the gig. i also played a fair once where the lady that was supposed to pay us gave a check to someone to give to us for 200 less than it was supposed to be, and left, and never answered a phone call or anything. we found out we were not the only band that she did that to. i agree with the statement that as bands, we have to work together and spread the word, not naming names on boards like this, but when meeting eachother around the area. in my experience, it's almost impossible to get contracts signed through the mail. hopefully in another 5 or so years, everything will be done through the internet, and you can keep email records... you tell the bar, here's my website, we would like to play blah blah blah. then the bar checks your mp3's, sees where you have played, your style, or whatever the hell they 'check', and emails you back. then you wouldn't have to mail demos. but WAIT, that's about when the government will start charging to send emails.... that's a whole different issue tho... luckily, in my experience, the good gigs have outnumbered the bad by far, and the trustworthy bar owners have outnumbered the cheapskates. word does get out, and what goes around comes around. just be the better man/woman, and keep doing good business yourself, so that bands don't get a bad rep in return... rock n roll...

Myspace.com <---- the only method that I have EVER had to use to book E.o.A shows. I think every band should use myspace whether it be cover band, or original - and every place that hosts live music should as well. That way you cant cry "miscommunication" - it's right there in the document..

paulwunder · Post by **paulwunder** » Monday Dec 05, 2005

bassist_25 wrote:
FretBored wrote:
bassist_25 wrote: Then play freebies and leave clubs to the professional musicians.
OK Thanks for the Pro. Advice.
Your attitude is why bands allow themselves to get fucked up the ass. If you want to get anal raped, then that's your business. Don't make me drop the soap in the process, though.

Exactly! I love music, but it’s an inescapable fact that the second you step out into the world of commerce, you are in business. If you love music and not money, stay home and record and, or play with your friends in the basement. There’s nothing wrong with that.

I completely discount the “starving artist” mentality. Just because you love something doesn’t mean you can’t (or shouldn’t ) get paid for it.

In my opinion, NOT BEING PAID for your creativity devalues art, not the other way around.

FretBored · Post by **FretBored** » Monday Dec 05, 2005

paulwunder wrote:
bassist_25 wrote:
FretBored wrote: OK Thanks for the Pro. Advice.
Your attitude is why bands allow themselves to get fucked up the ass. If you want to get anal raped, then that's your business. Don't make me drop the soap in the process, though.
Exactly! I love music, but it’s an inescapable fact that the second you step out into the world of commerce, you are in business. If you love music and not money, stay home and record and, or play with your friends in the basement. There’s nothing wrong with that.

I completely discount the “starving artist” mentality. Just because you love something doesn’t mean you can’t (or shouldn’t ) get paid for it.

In my opinion, NOT BEING PAID for your creativity devalues art, not the other way around.

I don't understand why someone has a bug up his A$$. I simply stated I don't care for money... Maybe it was the Good Luck part... I don't know.. Or maybe this is a flare up from another post I know nothing about. But resorting to profanity sure does show your mental attitude and degre of education. Forgive me if you feel insulted. This is my last post on this topic. Moving on to something more positive.

bassist_25 · Post by **bassist_25** » Monday Dec 05, 2005

The comment was made after my post. I detected a sarcastic tone in it, so that's how I responded. If that was not the case, I apologize. Sometimes, it's difficult to detect certain inflections in people's speech over the net, so you have to take things at face value.

BTW, I agree 100% with everything that Paulwunder said.

But I do stand by my original point: If you're going to devalue yourself, please do it at open mic nights, not out in the business world. Don't make shit deals just to get on stage because it's screwing everyone else. Why do you think clubs in LA can getaway with the bullshit that they do? Because every band is willing to slit its own throat because they have a small chance of "Making It" if they play "The Game".

no surrender · Post by **no surrender** » Monday Dec 05, 2005

how much do your mr avg DJ charge for a gig in these parts?

no surrender · Post by **no surrender** » Monday Dec 05, 2005

How DJ's may improve there lot in life:

1) have a kick azz sound system ie LOUD

2) feel your crowd out and play THREE TUNES from SAME GROUP with every request. for example you get request for GNR, Sweet Child O' Mine, play Welcome to Jungle and Novemeber rain. one right after another!(they will freaking adore you!)

3) keep em rolling. no long pauses b/w tunes! uncool! altogether now - "hate that!"

4) get a gimmik! like a large unfolding screen behind you that shows rock videos. love that!

5) dance while your up there! get the groove down and bustv a move to your own tunes!! how cool is that!! haha!!

be awsum to see the DJ bustin a cool move all over stage to his own tunes! guarnteed you will be a sensation. everyone takin bout you! can you say "in demand!" LOL

work on this for now.i got more ideas i 'll share later..

ROCKPAGE

DJ's vs Bands

DJ's vs Bands

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