band to band advice...

[HIMfag666]

ok, i'm looking for ALOT of input on this one. Our guitar player/frontman is looking to pack up and move to pittsburgh. now, i'm not totally against the idea, i'd love to get the hell out of this dull little town. But as a band i'm a little skeptical. We dont have near enough material to be a headlining act, so i have my doubts on this being a smart move. In this area, i've noticed cover bands seem to be the shit, most of the bars wont book bands or are hesitant at booking bands that are soley original music which is what we want to be. but in a big city such as pittsburgh there are going to be soooooo many original bands it maybe hard to even get a foot in the door, especially as merely an opening act, and not knowing anyone there. i'm not saying we'll be falling flat on our faces, but i think that there are steps to be taken and i think brian wants to skip most of them. we are also looking at recording a demo and sending it to A-F Records. we've only been together 3 months played 3 shows and have one song recorded and honestly the quality is shit. i do believe we've come a very long way in only 3 months, but like i said, i think brian is trying to skip necessary steps in all of this and brian is not someone that you can tell is wrong, especially becoz he's got almost 9 years on anyone else in the band. he's very headstrong and stubborn and is "almost never wrong". anyone else here that has been doing this for several years please gimme some input becoz i dont want us to move to pittsburgh and everything that we're working so hard for falls apart.

[AtoMikEnRtiA]

ok, i'm looking for ALOT of input on this one. Our guitar player/frontman is looking to pack up and move to pittsburgh. now, i'm not totally against the idea, i'd love to get the hell out of this dull little town. But as a band i'm a little skeptical. We dont have near enough material to be a headlining act, so i have my doubts on this being a smart move. In this area, i've noticed cover bands seem to be the shit, most of the bars wont book bands or are hesitant at booking bands that are soley original music which is what we want to be. but in a big city such as pittsburgh there are going to be soooooo many original bands it maybe hard to even get a foot in the door, especially as merely an opening act, and not knowing anyone there. i'm not saying we'll be falling flat on our faces, but i think that there are steps to be taken and i think brian wants to skip most of them. we are also looking at recording a demo and sending it to A-F Records. we've only been together 3 months played 3 shows and have one song recorded and honestly the quality is shit. i do believe we've come a very long way in only 3 months, but like i said, i think brian is trying to skip necessary steps in all of this and brian is not someone that you can tell is wrong, especially becoz he's got almost 9 years on anyone else in the band. he's very headstrong and stubborn and is "almost never wrong". anyone else here that has been doing this for several years please gimme some input becoz i dont want us to move to pittsburgh and everything that we're working so hard for falls apart.

Pittsburgh has NO SCENE AT ALL. Ill give you that little tid-bit of advice. There are very few venues out there that are worth your time, the bands out there for the large part are all apathetic dickbags who don't give a fuck about anything but themselves and the people in the city of Pittsburgh are just letting their city be raped and do nothing about it. There are the exceptions although, Peter's Pub is a great venue - Prana Gallery is a great venue - Loko Phylum is a great band, and Shipwreck I Promised is a great band.. but if you're thinking Pittsburgh is going to get you even remotely recognized in the music industry.. you uh.. stand a better chance of finding Christ walking across the Ohio river. My advice to you - keep doing what you're doing now. There are plenty of places in Central Pa to support you, and aim for Eastern PA. If you go a little further east of Lewistown - there are a plethora of places to play - The Capitol, the Silo, the Champion Ship, Croc Rock, The Sterling Hotel, The Pirates Den in Glouster, NJ , The Rusty Nail, The Coalhole, Thoroughbreds, The Gingerbread Man, Fennarios Pub in West Chester, ect ect ect.

All in all, don't go to Pittsburgh - but thats just my opinion, I could be wrong

[Bert|Evil]

It may be going to a far extreme to say that Pittsburgh has “NO SCENE AT ALL”, but I will admit that it is the worst that I’ve seen it in my lifetime. There are still some venues that support original and underground music, but you may find it to be similar to what you’re already experiencing. My advice: keep doing what you’re doing and research the Pittsburgh scene for a while. Is your guitar player looking to move for another reason (college, for example)?

Most geographic areas are hurting in this way. I’d be opening a can of worms in speculation, even though I know the ultimate answer.

[nakedtwister]

Dont know about the Pittsburg scene but for original stuff seems to me one of the best areas is Lancaster/ Harrisburg area. I'm new to this too but what I do know is that nowhere else will you get better support from fans and fellow musicians is right here. Rockpagers rule!!!!!!! They wont let you down. Stick it out because there are plenty of places here to play such as Aldo's, City Limits, etc. to name a few. Not to mention State College. Get in touch with the guys from Wiskerbisket if you are curious about the Lancaster/Hburg locals. They play there alot and have great originals.

[Jim Price]

I think that given that the band has only been together three months and has only one song recorded so far, Pittsburgh is a pretty big jump. I also know it is a pretty tough nut to crack as far as landing gigs, there is a lot of competition and you need to be established there before doors start opening for you.

Probably the healthier option is to develop your music and fan base locally, and then start spreading out. While opportunities for original music are limited around here, they aren't non-existant. As far as Altoona, Aldo's and Peter C's will give original acts a chance, and if you're looking at all ages shows, Lion's Den in Juniata is always doing multi-band shows where groups can hone their chops, network with one another and develop a fan base. State College also has some opportunities; Crowbar frequently has new bands opening for established regional names and national bands, and you can also explore the fraternity and all-ages show circuits there to build a fan base. (In fact, try several college town scenes - Indiana/IUP, Johnstown/UPJ, etc.)

Pittsburgh has its possibilities if your singer/guitarist is insistent on relocating there, but I think for a new band relocating there, it will take time to establish a foothold and build a new following there if you're starting there cold and don't already have contacts and leads there. Whatever you ultimately decide, good luck.

[Hawk]

Pretty much any city you go to, big or small, covers get you in the door, then you add originals. Although places like L. A. have "pay to play" where you can play whatever you want.

If your looking for success (like a recording contract) no one will find you here, you have to go find them.

[AtoMikEnRtiA]

It may be going to a far extreme to say that Pittsburgh has “NO SCENE AT ALL”, but I will admit that it is the worst that I’ve seen it in my lifetime. There are still some venues that support original and underground music, but you may find it to be similar to what you’re already experiencing. My advice: keep doing what you’re doing and research the Pittsburgh scene for a while. Is your guitar player looking to move for another reason (college, for example)?

Most geographic areas are hurting in this way. I’d be opening a can of worms in speculation, even though I know the ultimate answer.

I think that you could easily say that when you play a show with 5 of Pittsburgh's most known and established bands in a venue in the middle of the city - and only 5 people attend. You can say it's in a persistant vegetative state - not to mention, the Pittsburgh venues themselves say the scene is "Dying quickly" - I give you this excerpt, from Kelly at the Prana Gallery on the strip district of Pittsburgh.

Every one is always bitching that there's nothing to do in this city and this city is lame. But when there's something to actually do, you don't want to do it. Make up your mind.... sit in your house and be lame or go out and do something. If you want a 'scene' then you have to actually go out and be a part of it. Prana must be supported 6 days a week, not only as your venue, but as a regular place of business. We are open 6 days a week and need you down here to keep us alive! We offer retail, coffee bar, art gallery, pool & arcade games, & tattoos...you can't get all that in one building any where else in pittsburgh. Come support us weekly and support the dying scene on the weekends GO TO SHOWS, ANY SHOWS! Who cares if it costs $5 bucks, its better than letting the city become completely over run with sports bars & clubs!

The fact is, she's right - the Prana Gallery is the only place in Pittsburgh you can do everything at once - and yet nobody shows up - for any shows. Eyes of Anguish is doing a show there again next Saturday nite w/ From Dissension and A Well Thought Tragedy, who recently just signed to an Indie label - and thankfully we all have people out there or nobody would show up for this place. Prana is a beautiful place - its just nobody cares - same can be said for Peter's Pub. I talk to the girl who books there a good deal, she booke E.o.A for a show on October 8, but had to cancel the show because no Pittsburgh bands will play in Pittsburgh anymore. Saying it's dead may be an extreme - and I'll let you know my final synopsis on the place after next Saturday.. but it doesn't look good for Pittsburgh - frankly, I think it's saying a hell of a lot for people who care - when a show in Du Bois at Surf N Skate - featuring a band who's from Reading, 4 hours away - can draw in 80 to a 100 kids who have never heard of them before, but one of Pittsburgh's "up and coming" venues can't pull in 8 paying customers, when 5 of it's most popular bands are in town. It's not the venue's fault - it's the people's fault - and maybe the bands for not advertising.

I know the heavy hitters are going to weigh in on this some more, the pundits on this page are everywhere and thats why I love you all so much haha - this is a great topic and I see the debate waging all day on this. Allow me to say this though - I will support any scene, any scene anywhere - as long as it's attempting to stay above water. I support the Harrisburg-Metro scene because it's probably the strongest in the state - I support the Northeast PA scene because some truely awesome bands call that section home. I support the Philadelphia scene because it has a world of potential - I support Central PA, because despite it being dominated by cover acts - people actually support it, and I support the Northwest PA scene, mostly in the Du Bois area - because from experience up there.. the kids, are insane, and they really do care and want something better to come out of this - the ultimate example is Surf N Skate - 3 months ago, the place would prolly have been lucky to pull in 20-30 people. But thanks to hard work and recognition - that place - is not only pulling in bands from Philadelphia, New York, Reading, Pittsburgh, Cleveland and Harrisburg - it's pulling in 80 - 100 kids per show, not bad for a skating rink.

All in all, if a scene is to survive - the bands and the people are what is going to keep it there. A venue can put a flyer on their front window and pass flyers around - but if the band doesnt attempt to tell people "hey douchebag - show this weekend. come get off your lazy ass and listen to some music" and if the supposed, so-called "street teams", and "fans" don't do their fair share of show advertising - a scene is doomed for failure. This is just my opinion tho..

god damn i feel like bill o'reilly after doing "talking points" and i hate that son of a bitch!

[Griff]

I dont think the P-burg scene is all that great for a new band from central Pa to try to get into. Reason why I know some bar/ club owners in J-town and indiana and they have alot of bands from P-burg trying to get into the clubs around here. some say the pay isnt much better, I think it would be wise to slowly expand as your band gets tighter just my opinion but give it some thought. Jimmy, a guy that plays with us is from the burg and he says its not that great out there at the moment.

[JeffLeeper]

Pittsburgh...Philly...Doesn't matter where you go , whatever you do , don't rush it.

I'm sure you are a very good band , and there's obviously enough talent in our area to produce some great sounds , but be patient.

Develop your on-stage personality , learn some of the ins-and-outs of the business end...fans and owners...it's important.

Above all , and I know it's tough...be patient....It'll come.

[Punkinhead]

ok, i'm looking for ALOT of input on this one. Our guitar player/frontman is looking to pack up and move to pittsburgh. now, i'm not totally against the idea, i'd love to get the hell out of this dull little town. But as a band i'm a little skeptical. We dont have near enough material to be a headlining act, so i have my doubts on this being a smart move. In this area, i've noticed cover bands seem to be the shit, most of the bars wont book bands or are hesitant at booking bands that are soley original music which is what we want to be. but in a big city such as pittsburgh there are going to be soooooo many original bands it maybe hard to even get a foot in the door, especially as merely an opening act, and not knowing anyone there. i'm not saying we'll be falling flat on our faces, but i think that there are steps to be taken and i think brian wants to skip most of them. we are also looking at recording a demo and sending it to A-F Records. we've only been together 3 months played 3 shows and have one song recorded and honestly the quality is shit. i do believe we've come a very long way in only 3 months, but like i said, i think brian is trying to skip necessary steps in all of this and brian is not someone that you can tell is wrong, especially becoz he's got almost 9 years on anyone else in the band. he's very headstrong and stubborn and is "almost never wrong". anyone else here that has been doing this for several years please gimme some input becoz i dont want us to move to pittsburgh and everything that we're working so hard for falls apart.

Do not pack up and go to Pittsburgh until you start landing gigs there. If you are metal, you need to be all original in that scene as well. If you pack up and move without having gigs first, you'll find yourself working at BK and begging for free shows. Trust me, the scene there is not real conducive to new bands. You should travel down for at least 6 months playing shows and get established there before moving.

[orangekick]

Pittsburgh blows for a music scene. I moved here thinking that the scene would be better and it was horrid. Keep in mind that I was from the underground/DIY scene in Altoona. I got used to seeing 200 kids show up to shows and I come here and there are maybe 50 people at shows if you're lucky. The best shows that I've played since I moved here have been all out of town. Hell, I see more people at Altoona shows when I play those than I do Pittsburgh shows. The only good thing that I find from playing here is that out of town bands still see Pittsburgh as a big city that they need to hit and it's really easy to trade shows.

There are some great bands here, but a lot of the musicians do have their heads up their asses and none of them understand the business side of music. It has been getting bettter recently. People have been starting to work together for a change, but the people still aren't coming to shows.

The Prana Gallery, Peter's Pub, the Smiling Moose and a couple of other venues have been busting their asses to get something done.

[bassist_25]

Pittsburgh...Philly...Doesn't matter where you go , whatever you do , don't rush it.

I'm sure you are a very good band , and there's obviously enough talent in our area to produce some great sounds , but be patient.

Develop your on-stage personality , learn some of the ins-and-outs of the business end...fans and owners...it's important.

Above all , and I know it's tough...be patient....It'll come.

I have to echo Jeff's statements. Building a following, getting tight on stage, and producing quality material takes time. After only playing three shows, you're like a Kindergartener in a classroom full of graduate students. I'm not saying you suck because of a lack of experience, but you're not going to be on the same level as bands with hundreds or thousands of shows under their belts. If people are truly going to dig what you're doing, I'm sure that Big John would want to book you on a monthly basis. Get tight on stage right now, and as my compadre Songsmith would say, Pay Your Dues.

Editted because I misread the part about moving.

[AtoMikEnRtiA]

Pittsburgh blows for a music scene. I moved here thinking that the scene would be better and it was horrid. Keep in mind that I was from the underground/DIY scene in Altoona. I got used to seeing 200 kids show up to shows and I come here and there are maybe 50 people at shows if you're lucky. The best shows that I've played since I moved here have been all out of town. Hell, I see more people at Altoona shows when I play those than I do Pittsburgh shows. The only good thing that I find from playing here is that out of town bands still see Pittsburgh as a big city that they need to hit and it's really easy to trade shows.

There are some great bands here, but a lot of the musicians do have their heads up their asses and none of them understand the business side of music. It has been getting bettter recently. People have been starting to work together for a change, but the people still aren't coming to shows.

The Prana Gallery, Peter's Pub, the Smiling Moose and a couple of other venues have been busting their asses to get something done.

We'll consider this the cliff-notes version of my previous posts lol \m/

[bassist_25]

but a lot of the musicians do have their heads up their asses and none of them understand the business side of music.

I think that's also true for many musicians around here.

[AtoMikEnRtiA]

but a lot of the musicians do have their heads up their asses and none of them understand the business side of music.

I think that's also true for many musicians around here.

but thats nowhere near as proportionate as in Pittsburgh - im kidding you not. A certain band who will remain nameless, went psychotic on a band because a band from virginia playing in pittsburgh played their set, watched a set, loaded up - got a phone call with really bad news - and went home. This band composed of assholes who hadn't played yet - went off on the virginia band saying they didnt support the other bands and that they only cared about themselves..

keep in mind, this band from virginia brought a few people with them, at that time the Pittsburgh band had none, reason being - this pittsburgh band told all their friends not to come until 10 minutes before their set time, because the other bands werent worth the time..

now thats asshole to the max

[HIMfag666]

holy hell, first of all i'd like to thank all of you for your advice and input, atomik is right, rockpagers fuckin rule, i love all you guys. second of all, i'm scared shitless about the pittsburgh thing now. Brian called me this morning and told me that he gave his landlord the 30 days notice today and now after reading all this i'm just like...fuck! i'm at a loss, but i cant move up there right now anyway so i was looking at traveling back and forth for practice and shows, looks like its gonna stay that way until we see how things go becoz i dont want to move there and end up working at BK and trying to book free shows. i really thought it would be hard to break into the scene up there anyway but to know that their scene is on the verge of death is honestly kinda heartbreaking. Looks like i have 30 days to convince them to go somewhere else. Thanks for the ton of advice, i love your rockpagers for without you i would be lost!

[FatVin]

Dude, Da burgh is kind of a dry hole.

If ya wanna just get outta town, there ways to do it. Look up clubs on the internet that cater to the kind of music you play and call them, book some shows, get a van and take it on the road for a week or so.

having said that, it's tough duty and it'll make ya or break ya as a band and as friends and as individual musicans.

if you're a good band it'll make you better, it'll make you a better songwriter, and a better musician, if you suck it'll break you.

Why Pittsburgh, in the first place, if you're really seriuos, you go to NY or LA, that's where the industry is know what I mean?

Take it on the road, Play Ohio and West VA and Upstate NY and VA then if it goes well, then stretch out.

I think if you are even halfway seriuos about your music, ya gotta try it at least once.

Nothing good is EVER gonna happen for you around here

and that's the truth.

[AtoMikEnRtiA]

Dude, Da burgh is kind of a dry hole.

If ya wanna just get outta town, there ways to do it. Look up clubs on the internet that cater to the kind of music you play and call them, book some shows, get a van and take it on the road for a week or so.

having said that, it's tough duty and it'll make ya or break ya as a band and as friends and as individual musicans.

if you're a good band it'll make you better, it'll make you a better songwriter, and a better musician, if you suck it'll break you.

Why Pittsburgh, in the first place, if you're really seriuos, you go to NY or LA, that's where the industry is know what I mean?

Take it on the road, Play Ohio and West VA and Upstate NY and VA then if it goes well, then stretch out.

I think if you are even halfway seriuos about your music, ya gotta try it at least once.

Nothing good is EVER gonna happen for you around here

and that's the truth.

I think you're giving them a little bit of advice for further down the road then they should be looking at. They have played 3 shows - it is by no stretch of the imaginination time to take it on the road.

HIM666FAG, my best advice to give you is this - keep practicing, do some smaller shows here, open up for more established bands - whether they be cover or original - don't be afraid to settle for the small bar in the middle of the woods, until you hone your skills as an individual and as a band - there are good venues in central pa that will take you and allow you to get your feet wet. If you want to make a couple hour pilgrimmage to Du Bois - Surf N Skate is probably the best option for you in central PA - its a venue that allows the smaller time bands to have a place to play to get a feel for what you're doing - another option is to just host home shows, get a venue - invite 4 of 5 other bands to come play with you - advertise in your home town, get a fan base - give it a few months before you hit the road. you'll be better off in the end..

[HIMfag666]

fatvin, i dont really know why brian is so dead set on pittsburgh. he's such a scatterbrained person. we spent a week in cleveland for job training and went to a show there (saw the lead singer for Lamb Of God's side project Halo of Locusts and he spit on me at the show!!!!) and after that we were supposed to move to cleveland. I do agree with ur statement that nothing good is goin to happen here and thats why i'd kinda like to move, but i feel we should be more established like everyone is telling me.

(on a side note, fatvin i'm assuming you're with fat vinny and the wise guys, our drummer takes lessons from your drummer. you should hook us up w/ some shows...lol)

[orangekick]

Looking back, the move from Altoona to Pittsburgh was good and bad. The music scene here is so disjointed and nobody knows the other bands on teh other side of town where the scene in Altoona was small enough that everybody knew pretty much every other band. Here, you can have 2 bands that sound exactly alike and they'll never see each other if one of them plays in the southern side of town and the other one never strays from the northern side.

There are plenty of advantages to living in Pittsburgh though. I stay here because the jobs pay better here and it's easier to get to shows in Ohio and such. I left behind some good friends though and they have succombed to cover band hell. I'll never forgive myself for that.

[orangekick]

One more annoying thing about Pittsburgh is the fact that people seem way more likely to call the cops on you for having band practice in a house or apartment. Most bands around here rent a separate practice space. It's just one more expense.

[FatVin]

They have played 3 shows - it is by no stretch of the imaginination time to take it on the road.

You're never truly "Ready", You're never "Ready" for your first show, or your first road trip. Do you know how many shows the Beatles played with Pete Best before going to Hamburg for the first time? Zero, and they turned out alright, You how many rehearsals they had with Ringo before he replaced Pete? Zero Yes they were the Beatles but in 62, when all this happened, they were just middle-class kids from Liverpool, they did it Why can't you.

That's part of the problem with the Altoona Scene, people don't come out to "Hear Music" they come out to see their friends play and drink beer, so bands play covers cause they are easy to learn and easy for the audience to digest.

and when musicians do decide to play originals, they must be hardcore rock cause only the hardcore rock fans will put up with originals.

ALMOST NOBODY TAKES RISKS

On Any given weekend, you can hear Classic rock covers and Hard core and that's pretty much it. I know, People don't come out for anything else, Did ya ever stop to think that their ain't anything else so people don't come out?

People who do go (usually kicking and screaming ) to See Blind Johnny Death, ot the NightCrawlers or Fat Vinny & The Wiseguys and most of the time they are surprised how good the music is? WHY?

Beacause everybody says, don't take a risk, play it safe, play what they wanna hear.

I say BULLSHIT, surprise them, even shock them, take them someplace they've never been, Yes, it's harder, Yes you will suffer lumps, but you'll be a better musician for it, and a better person.

TAKE SOME RISKS, get out there and suck for a while, you'll get better.

You know what I want from an audience, just give me you attention for a few minutes and be willing to go where I take you, just listen, you'll hear some things that are familiar and some thing that aren't and some things that will make you laugh, think and maybe even cry in alternate moments, that's what music is supposed to do, make you feel something.

We all bitch about people treating us like living jukeboxes but we usually knuckle under and play what they want instead of actually trying to connect with them, if live music is dying in this area, it's as much OUR FAULT as it is Karaoke and DJ's and Cheapskate Bar managers.

If anything is EVER gonna get better, we have to make it better, all of us. and take a few risks.

so endeth the sermon

[ChaosRisingRice]

Yeah don't be harsh with your decisions. I agree with pumpkin head. Play some shows down there first and make a name for yourself. You will be making a big mistake if you just up and jump over there right away. Just chill out and take your time. Besides being together for three months isn't alot of time. To make big decisions like that. Calm down and take it slow. I know it sucks. But i have been patient and we haven't gotten anyone to stay in our band because everybody is busy all the time. It is going on more than a year and a half. Have some faith. things will start to happen for ya

[AtoMikEnRtiA]

They have played 3 shows - it is by no stretch of the imaginination time to take it on the road.

You're never truly "Ready", You're never "Ready" for your first show, or your first road trip. Do you know how many shows the Beatles played with Pete Best before going to Hamburg for the first time? Zero, and they turned out alright, You how many rehearsals they had with Ringo before he replaced Pete? Zero Yes they were the Beatles but in 62, when all this happened, they were just middle-class kids from Liverpool, they did it Why can't you.

That's part of the problem with the Altoona Scene, people don't come out to "Hear Music" they come out to see their friends play and drink beer, so bands play covers cause they are easy to learn and easy for the audience to digest.

and when musicians do decide to play originals, they must be hardcore rock cause only the hardcore rock fans will put up with originals.

ALMOST NOBODY TAKES RISKS

On Any given weekend, you can hear Classic rock covers and Hard core and that's pretty much it. I know, People don't come out for anything else, Did ya ever stop to think that their ain't anything else so people don't come out?

People who do go (usually kicking and screaming ) to See Blind Johnny Death, ot the NightCrawlers or Fat Vinny & The Wiseguys and most of the time they are surprised how good the music is? WHY?

Beacause everybody says, don't take a risk, play it safe, play what they wanna hear.

I say BULLSHIT, surprise them, even shock them, take them someplace they've never been, Yes, it's harder, Yes you will suffer lumps, but you'll be a better musician for it, and a better person.

TAKE SOME RISKS, get out there and suck for a while, you'll get better.

You know what I want from an audience, just give me you attention for a few minutes and be willing to go where I take you, just listen, you'll hear some things that are familiar and some thing that aren't and some things that will make you laugh, think and maybe even cry in alternate moments, that's what music is supposed to do, make you feel something.

We all bitch about people treating us like living jukeboxes but we usually knuckle under and play what they want instead of actually trying to connect with them, if live music is dying in this area, it's as much OUR FAULT as it is Karaoke and DJ's and Cheapskate Bar managers.

If anything is EVER gonna get better, we have to make it better, all of us. and take a few risks.

so endeth the sermon

No you see Vin - I disagree here respectfully - yeah it may be good to take a few risks here and there, but after 3 shows? come on - yeah you may be good, you may be prime to suprise some people - but what if you aren't? what if you're only setting yourself up for failure - in this area you may not get a second chance to try again - so what.. go unprepared, let it all ride, make an ass of yourself and then what? you're doomed to doing nothing with your career - in any career move, (and yes this is a career) you need to play it safe.. remember, better safe then sorry.

and to say that the only original music in this area is hardcore rock is proposterious - have you been out at an original show lately, preferably in the huntingdon, mifflin, juniata county areas - if not then you would have no god damn clue how big the current "EMO" scene is - Areas like Selinsgrove, Shamokin, Lewistown, Falls Creek, Du Bois - all have huge EMO scenes - between bands like The Heartbreak Scene, Wings Ripped Out, Ahimsa Sunrise, Dont Hold Your Breath, The Best, The Calm Before, Orange Letter, Something Within Itself, the EMO/Punk/Ska movement in this area is probably twice twice that of the hardcore/heavy metal/metalcore movement in this area - the "hardcore" scene you talk about - yeah there are some really good bands - second offense, face rape (when they get back together) the pax cecilia, sever, neocracy, necroplis, vinegar hill, eyes of anguish, death rattle, and a few others - i know im missing some but what im saying is - if you have no idea what you're talking about, dont bring it up.

yeah - you are right tho, people in your area of the woods go to see cover acts because they're easy to party to and fun to go to - and thats awesome, i respect that. but don't tell an original music act in this area to go and take a huge risk, espically in pittsburgh which you yourself described as a "dry hole" - pittsburgh will be brutal on you if you don't succeed in your first try out there - you get a hold of the wrong acts - devestation alone would make your life hell if you fuck up a set before them, the fact my friend is - yeah risks are sometimes necessary.. but it's not like if This Dying Season doesn't get out there and let it all ride, the entire music scene in Pennsylvania is going to collapse.. so let them take some time, pay their fuckin dues, hone their skills, and when they're ready - then go.. it's one thing to say you're never ready for a cover band - because if you're not ready to play cover songs..then thats a little bit more practice and learning i imagine - but if you're not ready and you're in an original act - you're going to get nervous, forget your spots, and make yourself look like a blithering idiot, and in this society we live in today, your first impression never goes away.. sadly,

[ZappasXWife]

he's such a scatterbrained person. we spent a week in cleveland for job training and went to a show there and after that we were supposed to move to cleveland.

And you didn't, right? I've known many people like this and my advice is if you can't make him actually change his mind, just ride it out, because the good news is he will never get his shit together enough TO DO IT ANYWAY!
TaDa, I solved your problem! No kidding, I bet it will never happen. I would concentrate on the other suggestions our fine friends have made.