Is there any shame?

RobTheDrummer · Post by **RobTheDrummer** » Monday Oct 31, 2005

Ok, quick question:

Is there any shame in using cheat sheets such as lyrics that are hard to remember and such?

BDR · Post by **BDR** » Monday Oct 31, 2005

I use them when learning a song (commiting it to memory to the point where it won't fall out of my head) but I've never had more than 2-3 at a show and I'm very inconspicuous about it.

Right now, I have none, which makes me pretty happy, considering I feel like I'm on a leash when I have to use one.

The guys tell me I have the hardest job of all of us when it comes to learning material. What's anybody else think?

r:>)

Mackovyak · Post by **Mackovyak** » Monday Oct 31, 2005

It seems like no matter how much I try, certain parts of some songs, I just can't remember, I don't get it.

Did I drink too much in high school/college?
Do I drink too much now?
Who knows..... but I usually have a small cheat sheet of just certain things taped to the back of a speaker.

For Example:

The Intro progression to Interstate Love Song......I just always forget it.

The Bridge to "in the meantime" by Spacehog.....same thing.

ToonaRockGuy · Post by **ToonaRockGuy** » Monday Oct 31, 2005

I've seen both ends of the spectrum, where a singer uses nothing (BadDazeRob when I played with them, Victor Synn of HF1), and I've also seen singers use cheat sheets for almost every song. I don't think a singer should use cheat sheets, but it's all about the memory. If a singer's memory is bad, then you gotta do what you gotta do. But that said, if you have to use a cheat sheet, it should be inconspicouous and out of sight so you don't tip the crowd. It still really bugs me to go see a band and the singer has the music stand onstage with lyric sheets.

And BDRob, no, I don't think that the singer has the hardest job learning material. I think that the guitar and bass do, because to really have a song down, you have to know your guitar parts, bass parts, drum parts, and the lyrics so you can use whatever cues are in the song. For example, I try to learn every part for every song that I play, so I know what's coming and I can cue certain fills or transitions off of whatever part I need to. It also helps you point out if a mistake is made in a part that you can hear, but the other players can't.

Not a slam, just my .02...

BDR · Post by **BDR** » Monday Oct 31, 2005

Curious ... I don't play an "instrument," so I really can't relate to what's involved for the other guys when learning stuff.

r:>)

ToonaRockGuy · Post by **ToonaRockGuy** » Monday Oct 31, 2005

BadDazeRob wrote:Curious ... I don't play an "instrument," so I really can't relate to what's involved for the other guys when learning stuff.

r:>)

1. Yes, you do Rob. Your voice is your instrument.

2. Yes, you can. You know when a note is missed or a tempo is too fast or too slow. You know the songs, so you've learned the parts. You also know all the harmonies.

BDR · Post by **BDR** » Monday Oct 31, 2005

ToonaRockGuy wrote:Your voice is your instrument.

That's why I put it in quotes ... topic for a whole 'nother thread ... LOL.

r:>)

RobTheDrummer · Post by **RobTheDrummer** » Monday Oct 31, 2005

BadDazeRob wrote:
ToonaRockGuy wrote:Your voice is your instrument.
That's why I put it in quotes ... topic for a whole 'nother thread ... LOL.

r:>)

Yea! Don't ruin my thread bitches!

BDR · Post by **BDR** » Monday Oct 31, 2005

Suck it, Thongboy!

r:>)

YankeeRose · Post by **YankeeRose** » Monday Oct 31, 2005

I think it all depends on the sheer VOLUME of tunes you might have to select from on any given night.
Plus, there's always a chance the mind can just go blank, like happened once when someone was doing "Hotel California".

I've seen groups that use them for certain tunes they don't play all the time and it doesn't bother me one bit...their fans would rather that than "we don't know that one"...and it's possible their steady gigs reflect that...but that was a whole other thread, wasn't it?

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Monday Oct 31, 2005

I use them while learning a song, but try to not rely on them ASAP.

It looks like I will always need a cheatsheet for the Beatle's "Come Together".

SpellboundByMetal · Post by **SpellboundByMetal** » Monday Oct 31, 2005

well, usually, you want to have your shit together when you play live. if you cant remember or play the material live, you probably shouldnt be playing it at all.

songsmith · Post by **songsmith** » Monday Oct 31, 2005

I have the cheatsheets. I seldom use them, and even then mostly for the chords and keys, but I panic if they aren't there. It's a security-blanket thing. In the strummershow, I use them HARD. I just do too many songs, and smoked too much dope when I was younger. I'm sorry. Plus, it allows me to pull out songs I haven't done in years, or play something I just learned today.
I agree it's cheesy... I used to pride myself on my ability to quickly learn songs... I have a lot of irons in the fire, and fewer brain cells to spread around.------->JMS

SpellboundByMetal · Post by **SpellboundByMetal** » Monday Oct 31, 2005

i wasnt saying anything about you songsmith or anyone else on here. i was just saying that i wouldnt be able to perform something live i cant play or dont remember. i wouldnt want anyone in my band to either. you have gotta make sure you are 110% for shows. of course, you all know this.

Banned · Post by **Banned** » Monday Oct 31, 2005

I am in total AWE of Felix of the Canes. I have been watching him for years and I think he must know about 350 songs. Not only how to play them, but he KNOWS all of the lyrics to all of the verses.

He must have a photographic memory.

esa · Post by **esa** » Monday Oct 31, 2005

BadDazeRob wrote:Suck it, Thongboy!

...Thong Boy????? Did I miss something???? Woooooooooooooooooooohhhhhoooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BDR · Post by **BDR** » Monday Oct 31, 2005

Yes, and trust me, be thankful you are ... LOL ...

r:>)

Don Hughes · Post by **Don Hughes** » Monday Oct 31, 2005

Here's my opinion; If the music sounds great, who cares if there's music stands on there or not. Dream Theater keyboardist Jordan Rudess even has a Music Pad Pro on his keyboard so he can remember parts.

Long as the band is good and tight, that should be all that matters.

songsmith · Post by **songsmith** » Monday Oct 31, 2005

No offense taken, Spellbound. It's easier to remember everything when you've done 50 or 60 songs in your career... I've done 600 or 800 bare minimum, just in the rock, metal, country, gospel and blues genres, I'd bet. Back in the day, we learned a LOT of stuff until we found something that worked with local audiences... I've played a huge number of songs just once, and if it didn't fly, it was gone. I've also written 500+ songs, and I can only remember the top 100 or so off the top of my head... with the lyric sheet, it comes right back. Right now I do about 150 songs in my solo act, and I give up... I have to use the cheaties.----->JMS

Banned · Post by **Banned** » Tuesday Nov 01, 2005

As long as it doesn't hinder the performance, I would say it's OK.

I've been know to write down the first word of some verses here and there just to make sure I didn't screw up a song. I hide them near the setlist and make them as unseen as possible. That's only happened on a couple of occasions and never for more than 1 show.

Everybody remembers things and "memorizes" things a different way.

Now when a singer has to bend down and actually read the lyrics for songs that they've been singing for quite a while is absolutely ridiculous. and I've worked with some of those guys. That's bad.

SpellboundByMetal · Post by **SpellboundByMetal** » Tuesday Nov 01, 2005

OZZY and a teleprompter! everybody and their mother knows sabbath lyrics by heart...why doesnt he????

RAM Z · Post by **RAM Z** » Tuesday Nov 01, 2005

Must be all of the ants he has snorted!