Just interested in others thoughts on whether or not people should book
shows when they don't have a full compliment of members (i.e. musicians) or a full shows worth of material (or at least a set or two).
To each his own, but I'm curious what people think out there.
P.S. Does not apply to me, I've never played a show without all present.
To book or not to book? Thoughts?
No. I've seen posts in "Musicians Wanted" many times that say, "gigs already booked," and I think that's messed up. They must think it will attract "good" players if they think the band is good enough to be booked.
Bottom line: Can't play it, don't book it until you CAN play it. It's just unprofessional otherwise.
r:>)
Bottom line: Can't play it, don't book it until you CAN play it. It's just unprofessional otherwise.
r:>)
That's what she said.
I know of bands that were booked this year for the Folkfest/Ethnic fest and Thunder in the Valley here in Johnstown. Those organizers book a year or more in advance and if you cancel on them, it's been said they won't have anything to do with you. Thus, myself, along with two other fellow musicians filled in for a couple of shows during those two events 'cuz the bands that we filled in for had either broken up previously or whatever.
They weren't bad shows, but the particular bands involved don't even play around anymore. BUT, I'm sure they will be re-booked next year with fill-in players, which doesn't give established, rehearsed bands a chance to play. I don't agree with that and those bands in question should step aside and make way for gigging bands with functional members.
Thus, if you ain't ready, don't play.
A fill-in is OK in an emergency circumstance, but again, everybody will have an opinion on what an emergency is, I'm sure.
Here's another circumstance to ponder:
You're booked at a premier type club and it will be your first time there but something unforseen happens to one of your band members. You would really like the club owner and the club's audience to hear what you're all about. Do you get a fill-in player--even if they're well rehearsed, or do you cancel the gig explaining what has happened and try to re-book?
They weren't bad shows, but the particular bands involved don't even play around anymore. BUT, I'm sure they will be re-booked next year with fill-in players, which doesn't give established, rehearsed bands a chance to play. I don't agree with that and those bands in question should step aside and make way for gigging bands with functional members.
Thus, if you ain't ready, don't play.
A fill-in is OK in an emergency circumstance, but again, everybody will have an opinion on what an emergency is, I'm sure.
Here's another circumstance to ponder:
You're booked at a premier type club and it will be your first time there but something unforseen happens to one of your band members. You would really like the club owner and the club's audience to hear what you're all about. Do you get a fill-in player--even if they're well rehearsed, or do you cancel the gig explaining what has happened and try to re-book?
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AtoMikEnRtiA
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Well there is always that great divide in this area between the original music scene and the cover scene - I think your question applies more to the cover - but I'll weigh in on this, as somebody who does booking in the "original" music scene.
Obviously the difference between the 2 - mostly for cover bands, you're the only band on the bill that nite - usually in your bar or clubs where you can and are asked for what, 3 - 4 hour sets? Being under 21 the only cover band I have ever witnessed before was Sound of Silence at the County Line Inn in May or June - cant remember.. but they started roughly around 10:00 PM? and I remember leaving the Line at around 1:00 AM or a little around there.. they played 3 sets of like 45-60 mins each - so Im assuming thats what goes on in the cover scene - that said - if a cover band intends to do a show at say County Line, or Pellegrines, or Hitching Post -- wherever, and they don't have enough material for roughly 2, 3 hours or whatever the club owner needs then no - i dont see it as intellegent to book the show, espically on a Saturday nite or Friday when people are going to frequent the bar until very very late at nite (12:00 or 1:00, in Pittsburgh, 2:00) - whereas in the original scene, a long set at most places is 55 - 70 minutes, and that's if you're lucky or if the venue likes giving bands time to compensate for travel, ect ect - a short set could be anywhere between 25-35 minutes - obviously in original music scene if you don't have enough music for 25-35 minutes, don't bother..
Number of members.. uh - there are some bands who can get away with playing without a bassist or rhythm guitarist on some occasions, or god forbid - the vocalist can't make it - im sure somebody can step up. In cover music scene, i dont think this would be an "in the air" decision, of course if you're looking for a musician or two and know you're not ready.. why book the shows? you're only going to have to cancel and look bad - but if you are shorthanded for a night and think you can limp along 1 or 2 shows.. then go ahead, make an adventure out of it, nothing else - if you're at a bar - just tell the people "hey - we're all going to learn something here tonight. you're going to learn how much we suck shorthanded, and we're going to learn the value of the guy not with us tonite" - could be fun..
in original music - totally different story sometimes. I have only seen 1 band ever do a show shorthanded and that's ThrodL out of Reading - they played last Saturday nite with their "third string bassist" by "third string" i mean their bassist, dave couldn't make it - and neither could their back-up - but they did well nonetheless.. a band played the du bois battle of the bands in august without a bassist and a drummer - they played a 15 minute acoustic set and did well.. but i dont think it would be wise to book a show knowing you may be shorthanded.. this of course is all just my opinion though..
Obviously the difference between the 2 - mostly for cover bands, you're the only band on the bill that nite - usually in your bar or clubs where you can and are asked for what, 3 - 4 hour sets? Being under 21 the only cover band I have ever witnessed before was Sound of Silence at the County Line Inn in May or June - cant remember.. but they started roughly around 10:00 PM? and I remember leaving the Line at around 1:00 AM or a little around there.. they played 3 sets of like 45-60 mins each - so Im assuming thats what goes on in the cover scene - that said - if a cover band intends to do a show at say County Line, or Pellegrines, or Hitching Post -- wherever, and they don't have enough material for roughly 2, 3 hours or whatever the club owner needs then no - i dont see it as intellegent to book the show, espically on a Saturday nite or Friday when people are going to frequent the bar until very very late at nite (12:00 or 1:00, in Pittsburgh, 2:00) - whereas in the original scene, a long set at most places is 55 - 70 minutes, and that's if you're lucky or if the venue likes giving bands time to compensate for travel, ect ect - a short set could be anywhere between 25-35 minutes - obviously in original music scene if you don't have enough music for 25-35 minutes, don't bother..
Number of members.. uh - there are some bands who can get away with playing without a bassist or rhythm guitarist on some occasions, or god forbid - the vocalist can't make it - im sure somebody can step up. In cover music scene, i dont think this would be an "in the air" decision, of course if you're looking for a musician or two and know you're not ready.. why book the shows? you're only going to have to cancel and look bad - but if you are shorthanded for a night and think you can limp along 1 or 2 shows.. then go ahead, make an adventure out of it, nothing else - if you're at a bar - just tell the people "hey - we're all going to learn something here tonight. you're going to learn how much we suck shorthanded, and we're going to learn the value of the guy not with us tonite" - could be fun..
in original music - totally different story sometimes. I have only seen 1 band ever do a show shorthanded and that's ThrodL out of Reading - they played last Saturday nite with their "third string bassist" by "third string" i mean their bassist, dave couldn't make it - and neither could their back-up - but they did well nonetheless.. a band played the du bois battle of the bands in august without a bassist and a drummer - they played a 15 minute acoustic set and did well.. but i dont think it would be wise to book a show knowing you may be shorthanded.. this of course is all just my opinion though..
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bassist_25
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Yeah, it's beyond me why a band would book shows without having a line-up. There's times where having pressure brings out the best in oneself, and this isn't one.
Personally, I don't understand why bands go and gig without a lot of material. If you're playing covers, it shouldn't take a professional group of musicians any more than two months AT THE MOST to get out of the practice room with three sets of material. I don't understand these bands that spend three hour practices trying to nail down a three chord or four chord song.
But if there's one thing I've learned, there's a lot of bullshit in this business. Every band will tell you that they have the best players, the sweetest gigs, and of course, the token "major label interest" to get you to join.
Personally, I don't understand why bands go and gig without a lot of material. If you're playing covers, it shouldn't take a professional group of musicians any more than two months AT THE MOST to get out of the practice room with three sets of material. I don't understand these bands that spend three hour practices trying to nail down a three chord or four chord song.
But if there's one thing I've learned, there's a lot of bullshit in this business. Every band will tell you that they have the best players, the sweetest gigs, and of course, the token "major label interest" to get you to join.
"He's the electric horseman, you better back off!" - old sKool making a reference to the culturally relevant 1979 film.
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SpellboundByMetal
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i couldnt do a show that the band wasnt ready for. i have played a show without a bassplayer, and it went great.....but that was for the first show of a band called "Dead To One" from MD i was in. i would never do that now because it wouldnt represent the music as well. if somethign came up and a band member couldnt make it...oh well, i WONT cancel a show. i cannot wait to play shows around here.
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nightcrawler_steve
Hah! We still havent found a full-time replacement bassist. Thought we had one, but no. In the meantime we've been playing with 2 fill-ins and its working great. So great we've stopped looking for a replacement. I don't like the word "fill-in", because it seems to make them an outsider. So now we just say we have 2 bass players. And whats even funnier, is that our old bassist is filling in for an all original show we are doing in Philly next month.....so i think were covered with 3.
So yeah, its possible to do shows with a fill-in. We do our 3 set cover/original gigs and our 1 set all original gigs - no problem. I wouldn't book shows though if it were more than one fill-in however.
2 cents
~S
So yeah, its possible to do shows with a fill-in. We do our 3 set cover/original gigs and our 1 set all original gigs - no problem. I wouldn't book shows though if it were more than one fill-in however.
2 cents
~S
I thought the jist of the thread was, should you book shows before your band is ready to take the stage, not, should you cancel a show already booked if a member can't make it.
Bad Daze played for a year with a "Surrogate" bassist while shopping for who turned out to be Paul. The fill in was basically a temporary/permanent member.
I took the question as, "is it OK to book shows while putting the band together?". My answer to that is still no. Cart before the horse much?
I laugh every time I see these posts:
"Established band with connections to big clubs and major shows already booked looking for a lead guitarist, bass player and lead singer ..."
That, my friends, is a drummer, not an established band ... LOL.
If the question is, "our bass player quit." or, "our guitarist broke his arm, should we continue to book shows?" I guess that depends on your contingency plan. If you have people lined up and ready to step in who know your material already, or who can learn it satisfactorily — cover or original — then by all means keep booking until you hire a new permanent bass player/your guitarist's arm heals up. If you have no one who can fill in for shows already on the books in a situation like this, FIRST, tell the club ASAP, then do your damnedest to replace your band with another quality act. The club will remember that and respect you for it.
r:>)
Bad Daze played for a year with a "Surrogate" bassist while shopping for who turned out to be Paul. The fill in was basically a temporary/permanent member.
I took the question as, "is it OK to book shows while putting the band together?". My answer to that is still no. Cart before the horse much?
I laugh every time I see these posts:
"Established band with connections to big clubs and major shows already booked looking for a lead guitarist, bass player and lead singer ..."
That, my friends, is a drummer, not an established band ... LOL.
If the question is, "our bass player quit." or, "our guitarist broke his arm, should we continue to book shows?" I guess that depends on your contingency plan. If you have people lined up and ready to step in who know your material already, or who can learn it satisfactorily — cover or original — then by all means keep booking until you hire a new permanent bass player/your guitarist's arm heals up. If you have no one who can fill in for shows already on the books in a situation like this, FIRST, tell the club ASAP, then do your damnedest to replace your band with another quality act. The club will remember that and respect you for it.
r:>)
Last edited by BDR on Wednesday Oct 26, 2005, edited 1 time in total.
That's what she said.
Yeah, Rob, the original idea was that should you book shows if you're not ready. I simply posed a scenario/question which I thought was relevant to the topic.
So, again, my answer/opinion would be DON'T BOOK until you are ready to play or know you will be ready to play. DON'T take a show in two weeks when you know damn well it will take you 3 weeks to be actually ready for.
So, again, my answer/opinion would be DON'T BOOK until you are ready to play or know you will be ready to play. DON'T take a show in two weeks when you know damn well it will take you 3 weeks to be actually ready for.
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Punkinhead
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Sometimes things do happen such as people quitting with gigs still booked. In that instance I would think it would be better to try to get people to play them than to have to cancel. That might account for some of those.BadDazeRob wrote:No. I've seen posts in "Musicians Wanted" many times that say, "gigs already booked," and I think that's messed up. They must think it will attract "good" players if they think the band is good enough to be booked.
Bottom line: Can't play it, don't book it until you CAN play it. It's just unprofessional otherwise.
r:>)
The others though, I agree with you. Don't book if you can't do it.
If youth knew; if age could.
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JeffLeeper
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AtoMikEnRtiA
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Punkinhead wrote:Sometimes things do happen such as people quitting with gigs still booked. In that instance I would think it would be better to try to get people to play them than to have to cancel. That might account for some of those.
r:>)BadDazeRob wrote:If the question is, "our bass player quit." or, "our guitarist broke his arm, should we continue to book shows?" I guess that depends on your contingency plan. If you have people lined up and ready to step in who know your material already, or who can learn it satisfactorily — cover or original — then by all means keep booking until you hire a new permanent bass player/your guitarist's arm heals up. If you have no one who can fill in for shows already on the books in a situation like this, FIRST, tell the club ASAP, then do your damnedest to replace your band with another quality act. The club will remember that and respect you for it.
r:>)
That's what she said.
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lonewolf
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Where's your front man? Microphone too heavy for him?AtoMikEnRtiA wrote:Damn this thread - what - you had to tell into my future? I booked a show for this friday and now we're going up to Du Bois w/ our front man not coming - and the former lead singer and current guitarist singing for a nite since we dont like cancelling shows..
damn you all! haha
...Oh, the freedom of the day that yielded to no rule or time...
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AtoMikEnRtiA
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yeah - he has a hard time lifting 2 pound objects to the doctors suggested he just went outside and played "hide and go fuck himself" - sadly he hasn't come back yet..lonewolf wrote:Where's your front man? Microphone too heavy for him?AtoMikEnRtiA wrote:Damn this thread - what - you had to tell into my future? I booked a show for this friday and now we're going up to Du Bois w/ our front man not coming - and the former lead singer and current guitarist singing for a nite since we dont like cancelling shows..
damn you all! haha
haha naah just a conflict in schedule - no big deal tho
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AtoMikEnRtiA
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paulwunder
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My original thread on this subject was (for clarification), thoughts on
whether to book shows if your band isn't ready or doesn't have a "full
compliment" of members. Fill-ins are o.k., and I really wasn't counting these. I've filled in for others myself. This really isn't intended for established bands, it was more for newly forming, etc. groups.
I'll keep my opinions to myself for now. Just want to see what others
think.
whether to book shows if your band isn't ready or doesn't have a "full
compliment" of members. Fill-ins are o.k., and I really wasn't counting these. I've filled in for others myself. This really isn't intended for established bands, it was more for newly forming, etc. groups.
I'll keep my opinions to myself for now. Just want to see what others
think.