Dreams of World-class musicianship

[MOONDOGGY]

I just got done surfing thru Robert Randolph and the Family Band's website, and I feel like a talentless little piece of poop. To be as talented as that and to have that much fun doing what they do, makes me want to either give up playing all together, or quit everything else that I do and spend the rest of my life eating, sleeping, and breathing music.

I'll be done w/ college soon. Then it wil be a career, family, and then kids. I'll go day to day doing the same thing- work, eat, spend time w/ the wiffe and kids, and sleep. Every morning I'll probably wake up thinking that maybe, just maybe, I could be in a band touring the country (or the world), making awesome music. When I sit down and jam w/ a drummer, guitarist, and keyboardist, it's like the best thing in the world. Even if it's not in front of a crowd and we're just in a garage jamming, it's like everything else at the time has no importance.


My questions are:

For those of you who play in a band full time and don't have a family, would you trade it for a beautiful wife, wonderful kids, and a good job?

For those of you who play in a full-time band and do have a wife and kids, how do you do it and maintain a happy marriage? Would you trade it for anything?

For those that have full-time jobs and are just weekend warriors in a band, would you trade it to be a full-time musician?

[Diavolo]

Those are all great questions! I've strgulled with the same issues for years.

I have a really good full time day job but try to make time for several musical projects, some more regular than others. I would love to do more but just can't find the time.

Several years ago, I attended a Terry Bozzio clinic (one of several) and he said something that stuck with me. For those of you who don't know, Bozzio is an incredible and creative drummer who has played with Zappa, Missing Persons and has released several drum solo CDs and videos and recently a CD of his orcehstral compositions, all of which are unbelievable. He indicated we, the drummers and musicians in the crowd, ought to embrace the day job and reserve evenings and weekends for really out there creative ventures. He said that many musicians end up playing stuff they don't like (i.e commercial) in order to pay the bills. With the day job scenario, all of the time spent on music is creative time. I've really embraced this idea. Maybe it's rationalization but it's doubtful that I'd be able to maintain the same standard of living I have presently if I were touring even in a reasonably well known band. Ask around, many fulltime musicians will give you some idea of their lifestyle. Some make it work and others eventually find something else to do.

Of course, the other explantion is that I'm a talentless bum and couldn't land a gig with a decent touring/recording band anyway.

[Banned]

Marraige is stupid and everyone does it just because its what youre told to do. Think outside the box people. you only live once and why would you want to have your life making sure other people are happy? having kids is stupid, the world is populated enough and some people just shouldnt have children...look around. not to mention, when you have a family and wife , you can forget going anywhere. no matter how many of the married chumps say they "do whatever they want" its bullshit. if their band got signed and needed to tour , the wife would bitch and bitch and bitch. eventually, she'd leave and take the little cretins you both created and move to a trailer somewhere without you. women are ALL the same no matter how much they try to convince you otherwise. its possible to have a life without wives,kids,and crack!
get a GF and dont marry her (even though she will beg until eternity runs its course). dont have children. like i said theres enough dumb , deformed losers as it is. live your life for yourself! you will enjoy it more instead of wondering "what could have been".

[ZappasXWife]

chaos said...

get a GF and dont marry her (even though she will beg until eternity runs its course).

Somehow I don't believe that would be true...

[red]

I play music full time. I also just got married. I do miss being able to go camping or whatever on weekends, but thats why we schedule a Sat or two off every month or so. My guitar player has two kids and a wife and he has been a professional musician for 10 years. It's all in what you want. Play music for your living, or work for the man. Both have their ups and downs. I love playing my upright and knowing I don't have to get up at 6:30 in the morning to go to work....

[MOONDOGGY]

As for Mr. Chaos..................From what I've read on your other posts, your profile, etc.....You are probably not old enough to be into girls. They do not have cooties and they're not just a thing with boobies and a hoo hoo! If you found a woman that you truely love and you wanted to keep her in your life, then you have to allow them to have some input as to what you do with Your time. That's how it works.

Now taking that into consideration, what would you fellow musicians do if you had a wonderful woman in your life, were one semester away from having a bachelor's degree under your belt, and dream of making awesome music (being that I've never had a taste of making music full-time)?

[Griff]

wow,all questions are good.I look at it like this, you are almost with a degree, that may land you a good job , as Red said both have there ups and downs, I can share my experiance with you and I been a family man playing 3 times a week in other bands and trying to work a job, (could be why I am divoriced) na that wasnt the reason, but if your thinking of a family I can tell you this much i would not trade I have fun with my kids and they play as well, my son is one hell of a sax player, and piano player for a teenager, my daughter is doing well on guitar, I am getting married again here very soon and my step daughter is learning the drums and is doing well, so I can still play on the weekends, and still have fun with music playing around with my family. all I can say is follow your heart. I am 35 years old, constructing a new house and settled in where I am at with my life, I dont think I would give it up to go on the road come back broke and know that I lost it all on a chance, but thats only me

[jim bagrosky]

Moondoggy,

Follow your heart man, but also be realistic and use common sense. Some people here would tell you playing full time isnt all that it's cracked up to be. Been there, done that.

An earlier post suggested that playing full time often lends to one selling out to play what everyone else wants to hear to maintain a consistent schedule and a good fan base. I found that to be true. I couldn't get up there every night and " dry hump" it anymore.

However; if you are willing to play anything to make money than that won't be a problem. To each their own.

[ToonaRockGuy]

I've been playing "out" or semi-pro for 20 years now. I've been married for almost 6. My wife would like me to be home more, but she also likes the money that I bring home from gigging.

And Chaos, you and I have hung out, and I think you are a pretty cool dude. But friend to friend, quit being such a dick online, bro. Remember, sarcasm and dark humor don't come across very well over a PC, and you're really gonna piss some people off with the way you state your opinions.

I know that you'll say that you don't care, but man, lighten the fuck up, bro. I wouldn't trade my 2 daughters for the world, and quite frankly, if you think that me having two kids is stupid, well then, you can belly up to the bar and order yourself a tall frosty mug of shut the fuck up.

[bassist_25]

Music is a means to an end for me.

I'm a full-time college student training for a career in psychology. Before I even started to work on my BA, I knew that graduate school would have to be in my future. So now everything I do in life is done with the intention of going on to graduate school. Of course, one of the primary things a graduate admissions board looks at is one's GPA. My goal is to graduate with a 3.9 (it was a 4.0 until I got a fucking A- last semester ). There's usually an inverse relationship between the hours one works and one's GPA. When I can make as much or more money on a Saturday night than it would take me 30+ hours stocking shelves at Wal-Mart or flipping burgers and still be able to concentrate on school during the rest of the week, it's a no-brainer to see what to do in this situation.

The more pretentious people can whine about "selling out" all they want, but the fact of the matter is that I have bills to pay. I can play in my basement, keep my "integrity", work a shitty day-job, and watch my GPA dwindle to nothing, or I can do the rational thing. I consider myself a rational person.

[paulwunder]

The more pretentious people can whine about "selling out" all they want, but the fact of the matter is that I have bills to pay. I can play in my basement, keep my "integrity", work a shitty day-job, and watch my GPA dwindle to nothing, or I can do the rational thing. I consider myself a rational person.

Exactly. Speaking as someone whom has made a living as a songwriter and a musician, I need, and expect to get paid. I LOVE music. Every kind of music. And I've enjoyed playing a variety of musical styles. As a result, I'm a better musician. I don't subscribe to the "selling out" theory. As in most things in life, your attitude dictates your performance.

[jim bagrosky]

Thats why I added "to each their own." I have nothing but respect for anyone who can play for a living and sometimes I miss those days. Maybe it's more of an issue I have with the scene in general. If I could play my own music every night for a living then Hell yeah! I'm down with it, but if I have to play Good Charlotte songs all night cause that's "what the crowd wants to hear" than fuck that, I'd rather stay home.

I'm not only up there playing shit, I look at it as self expression as well, and the music has to mean something to me so I can personalize it and portray it the best I can, hopefully to an audience who can appreciate the art form behind it, just not that fact that its another band who can play your favorite radio song.

Oh fuck it, I digress, anyway dont take the last post the wrong way, do what you all feel is right! Good Luck to everyone.

[Craven Sound]

Well Mr. chaos, you are finished.

I think Ron "fixed the glitch".

[bassist_25]

Thats why I added "to each their own." I have nothing but respect for anyone who can play for a living and sometimes I miss those days. Maybe it's more of an issue I have with the scene in general. If I could play my own music every night for a living then Hell yeah! I'm down with it, but if I have to play Good Charlotte songs all night cause that's "what the crowd wants to hear" than fuck that, I'd rather stay home.

I'm not only up there playing shit, I look at it as self expression as well, and the music has to mean something to me so I can personalize it and portray it the best I can, hopefully to an audience who can appreciate the art form behind it, just not that fact that its another band who can play your favorite radio song.

Oh fuck it, I digress, anyway dont take the last post the wrong way, do what you all feel is right! Good Luck to everyone.

Oh no, that last part wasn't directed at you Jim. I mainly talking about a lot of the "scenester" types that have fucked up philosophies about how you shouldn't get paid for your art, you can't play covers (which ironically enough, isn't such a mortal sin in any other style of music outside of Rock), ect. Some people don't like the business aspect of the music business. I always liked that part almost as much, if not as much, as the music part.

I always believe that people should do what makes them happy as far as music goes. The only thing I tell people, and I've said this many times before on Rockpage, is that supply doesn't automatically create its own demand. What I'm saying is that if someone wants to go out and play original Punk music or cover a bunch of Slayer or play Brovokian love songs, don't whine if you aren't seeing the same crowds as bands playing more mainstream music.

Exactly. Speaking as someone whom has made a living as a songwriter and a musician, I need, and expect to get paid. I LOVE music. Every kind of music. And I've enjoyed playing a variety of musical styles. As a result, I'm a better musician. I don't subscribe to the "selling out" theory. As in most things in life, your attitude dictates your performance

Sage words!

Don't laugh, but I'm going to quote Kid Rock. He once said that it should be a given that we're all in the industry because we love music. A lot of people really love computers. Should they write a program for free or perform IT services for free just because they love computers? Granted, Ron donates a lot of time to run this site, but he can't donate his time everytime he writes code. I love to play benefits, but I can't play them every weekend. Music shouldn't be given a sacred pass from capitalism just because it's "art". Many bands out there (I'm not referring to any local bands in particular, just bands nation-wide in general) need to realize that and quit cutting their own throats (because they're cutting my throat, and everyone else's throat in the process) with club owners just to get on-stage because they love performing. If you're making a club owner money, you should be paid for your services. That's capitalism, whether the pretentious scenester types want to accept it or not.

I really appreciate a lot of the fans that frequent this site, such as Zappa's Wife and Yankee Rose, because they're really into what we all do and respect what we all do. I never asked for respect just because I'm a musician, nor do I think that I simply deserve respect by default just because I'm a musician. I'm just thankful and humble that I have enough talent, however miniscule it is, to be able to put myself through school. But there are a lot of people out there who simply see us all on stage or hear us on an album, and they don't know just how hard our jobs are. We're in a rough business, plain and simple. I've never bitched about the life I've chosen or bitched about the dues I have to pay, and I'm not going to start now. I just wish that many of the people who are on the outside looking in would take a moment and reflect on how much bullshit anyone of us goes through just to entertain for a few hours before they go and form a negative opinion.

Wow, I didn't mean to go off on such a tangent.

[JeffLeeper]

" having kids is stupid, the world is populated enough "

Ah , if only your parents had thought of that....

[Jacklyn Miauff]

Well..I guess I don't know where to start, but I will say this! Chaos, you are totally wrong with your whole paragraph of BS. My husband is with Hair Force One, and as we all know.............Hair Force is doing extremely
well for themselves these day. They have played with a few Professional
bands this year. They have played with Eric Brittingham and Jeff Labar of Cinderella and they have also opened up for Bret Michaels of Poison and the list is still pending for more Professional acts! Most of the guys in the
band are married and YES............. everyone that is married has kids. The wives all support their husbands and we all go along to most all of the gigs, but I must admit you have to be a very special person to be a band wife. You can't be insecure in yourself because you know there are going to be those sleezebags trying to get hooked up with your husband. Notice I said trying!! LOLOLOL The guys from Hair Force One all have Real Jobs, but they also find time to Make It Happen with the rock and roll end of it. Sure.....................they are good enough that they could become professionals!!! and do this full time. (VICTOR SYNN don't get a swelled head when you read this) They have a good thing going and they all know it, but they value their families also. Without their wives and girlfriend's support....they wouldn't be where they are today and trust me..........they know it! and they respect us. I don't know how many times the phone has rang before a gig for me to run my husband something he has forgotten. Not a problem!!!!! It is all about teamwork. There has been times that I have been out with my co-workers having a good time partying with them and the phone has rang with my husband in need of something for that nites gig and without a bitch I am there for him even though I wasn't planning to attend the show until later. There has also been times when one of the other band guys has called me for something they needed and I was there for them. I guess that's why we are called the HAIR BEARS (care bears). We take care of our men.

So Chaos, when you start barking about band wives being such bitches and thinking we always make our man's life miserable................ AT LEAST I KNOW YOU COULDN'T POSSIBLY BE TALKING ABOUT ME NOR THE HAIR BEARS OF HAIR FORCE ONE!


MOONDOGGY! Sorry for the long post pertaining to the little boy who thinks he knows all...............

MY advice to you!!!!!!!!!! Go with the flow and follow your heart. Everyone has different interests and wants out of life. You will know what is right for you when the time comes. There is nothing wrong with being a family man! and having a rock and roll life. You just need to make the right choices and remember that family is most important and rock and roll should be second in your life if that is the route you choose to go.
BUT KEEP IN MIND.......................YOU CAN HAVE BOTH!!!! there are just some adjustments that you need to make sometimes.

[SavageHeart]

Wow, all very interesting!!!!

Ah , if only your parents had thought of that....

Very well said Mr. Leeper!!!!
I have known people who have done both...part-time and full-time, and been very happy. I agree, to each his own. And as someone of the female persuasion, I obviously think there are women out there who can be very supportive. To think otherwise is obsurd. I have known many men who are NOT supportive of their wives careers....this is not necessarily a phenomenon that only musicians face!!! It is just a matter of finding a partner who understands your love for music and who loves music too!!! (We are out there!!!)

[Starr]

Couldn't have said it better myself, Jackie.
Zappa'sX...Amen!

[Mistress_DB]

Very beautifully put Jackie!

It takes a very special lady to be a musician's wife/girlfriend. The lifestyle isn't as glamorous as many would like to think.

yes there can be that balance... but it takes alot of trust and there's no room for jealousy at all. Some things just go with the territory.

[Jacklyn Miauff]

THANK YOU VERY MUCH MY FELLOW HAIR BEARS! LOVE YA!~

WE ALL KNOW THAT JACKIE DOESN'T SAY TOO MUCH................BUT WHEN I DO...........I DEFINITELY KNOW HOW TO VOICE MY OPINION IN A VERY TASTEFUL WAY AND I ALSO KNOW WHAT THE HELL I AM TALKING ABOUT.


SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO WONDER WHERE PEOPLE GET THEIR OPINIONS AND IDEAS.
TALK ABOUT THINKING OUTSIDE OF THE BOX? THIS DUDE DIDN'T COME OUT OF THE BOX YET!


SAVAGE-------------VERY WELL PUT AND THANK YOU!!!!!!

[Mistress_DB]

Well I figured he either had a bad experience with a rocker wife or was going by alot that's printed in the media. You notice usually most wives don't get mentioned unless they did something out of line. (Sharon anyone? )

I have the utmost respect for the wife/girlfriend of any Nationally touring musician. The stuff they put up with is 10 times worse than any have to deal with on just the local level. (although I have seen alot of similarities)

[Griff]

Wow, all very interesting!!!!

Ah , if only your parents had thought of that....

Very well said Mr. Leeper!!!!
I have known people who have done both...part-time and full-time, and been very happy. I agree, to each his own. And as someone of the female persuasion, I obviously think there are women out there who can be very supportive. To think otherwise is obsurd. I have known many men who are NOT supportive of their wives careers....this is not necessarily a phenomenon that only musicians face!!! It is just a matter of finding a partner who understands your love for music and who loves music too!!! (We are out there!!!)

Very well said. I dated a girl once that didn't like the band, and I can respect that because she was up front with me from the begining, so the relationship didnt go any further. on the other hand,my fiance is very supportive and that work out well she dont go to evey gig but she has the trust in me knowing that I will come home to her and thats what it takes from both parties, is respect for each other if there is a differance of lifstyle that causes a conflict while dating then it will not be better when married. as far as kids I made a coment before about my kids and music, and it makes for a good home. about 4 weeks ago my son got to set in with the band we were playing a show and it was th time of a 13 year olds life when they can come on stage and tear it up on a song. and that was the first he got to play sax the a full blown pa and it made a differance on him he was really whaling on that thing. bottom line is a couple having respect for each other and if there are kids, and they are in to music, then be the best musician possible pass it on to them so when we are gon they have the training and ethics to keep the music going

[songsmith]

I don't know who Chaos is, but I'd be willing to bet: he's a teenager. Look at his posts... big talk, big dreams, a lack of professional tact, "we're gonna really kick ass," that kind of thing leans towards a beginner in the band scene. There's smarts you only get from experience. I assure you all, I was EXACTLY the same way in my first little band-thing. It's not necessarily ego, mind you, it's more that you dream day and night, all the rock-star dreams, everything from how you'll spend your record company advance to how you'll set up the lights at that backyard birthday party next week. You get caught up in the exuberance of it all, the energy. That combined with youthful stupidity and naivete makes for a big mouth.
I support the band girlies, wives and otherwise... lord knows they supported me for years! I used to live that bohemian rock n' roll gypsy life, and I came to depend a bit too much upon the ladies willing to house and feed me... among other needs being met. Having somebody to depend on, though, trumps that easily.
I understand that wives and girlfriends will never 100% understand what it's like to be a musician (like I can't truly experience childbirth), but they are the only ones who even have a clue as to how we feel, because only they REALLY know us beyond the smiling mask we wear onstage. They see the frustrations, the temptations, the physical wear, and the sacrifices made, because they care enough to look beyond the bright lights.
Here's to our partners! Chaos, my friend, someday I hope you will have the things you dream about... and a partner to share them with.----->JMS

[Possessed]

God bless the rock'n roll wives. My wife has been supportive of all my musical endeavors. I decided to take time off from the scene for me, not because my wife made me. I wanted to spend a little more time getting my life together. I will be back on the scene in time. My wife knows it and is totally supportive.
As far as Mr Chaos saying that all the wife will do is bitch bitch bitch if a musician got a national gig... He is wrong wrong wrong.
I personally have a very good friend that has been in bands with me in the past and his wife was totally supportive when he did get that chance.
He did it for 4 years and I'm not gonna say it is easy but it works.
Chaos just needs a good dose of reality and he will change his tune.

[Jacklyn Miauff]

Thank you to all the Married musicians who posted their positive comments on here about their spouses. Kudos to you!! Some of us wives have been on the spotlight also at one time. I think that's why I understand the excitement of it all and can be so tolerable to most everything.

Hell..............who knows.....someday I might even get back into it before I get too old! LOLOL How does JACKLYN MIAUFF AND THE LIMOSCENE
sound for a band name!