What's up with the bassist shortage

[MOONDOGGY]

I agree with ya there Lonewolf! That crazy-ass Candian has his instrument darn well mastered (along with a few other instruments)! It boggles my mind how he can stay in a pocket and stay back with the drummer, yet still manage to make the his bass lines stand out among everything else. Throw on top of that his pipes, and he's material for worship.

That reminds me......has anyone found the 2 Easter eggs on the Rush in Rio DVD?

[ZappasXWife]

I don't know where that glove has been...

[Banned]

Rush is pretty cool i guess, but I prefer Pink Floyd . Roger Waters is a good bass player. Les Claypool can play bass great. also, Billy Sheenan is awesome. of course Peter Steele, but hes not flashy at all really.
Tom Araya from Slayer....keeping up with those riffs...damn.

[ThrashKillsYou]

I'm dumb, I thought Roger Waters played guitar.

[bassist_25]

Food for thought... The following is a transcript from the E! True Hollywood Story series Rock Star Daughters. This section involves an interview with Zappa's daughters Moon and Diva, and they had some interesting comments on bass players, among other people.

Moon: Each person that plays an instrument: there's a certain mentality.... It's an archetype.

Diva: Yeah, normally. What I’ve found normally doesn’t go for all of them, but the majority of keyboard players and bass players feel really neglected in the band and want more.... They kind of have attitudes and... they suck the life out of you, so you stay away. That’s why the drummers, and the singers, and guitar players are rad, ‘cause they know they’re the shit.


Thoughts, anyone?

What a bunch of shit. I've never had an inferiority complex because of the instrument I play. I often get compliments from both musicians and non-musicians alike. I'm not saying that I'm great or anything or trying to have a swollen head. I try to remain as humble as possible. I'm just stating that in my experience, I haven't found that people ignore my position in the band. And the bass players who played for Zappa weren't any slackers. His daughter should realize how much of a bad ass player Scott Thunes was. He knew that he "was the shit".

I've also never bought into the personality profiling of people by the instrument that they play, and I'm a damn psych major! Asshole musicians are asshole musicians; it doesn't matter what they play. I've met all of them in this business.

Edit: And Ron, Futureman plays the drumtar, it's Reggie that plays guitar.

[kara]

we only have one guitar player with are band and for as talented as he is there is no need for another, this is why we want a good bass player. Bob is one of the best that I have ever seen and if anyone knows Bob they know that I'm not just sayin this because he's in the band. We have tried to convert guitar player over to bass and it just does not work there is no feeling or pride in the music if they hate to play bass and are just doing so. If anyone knows of anyone who is into what they do let us know we would love to hear them. I also do think though that you can also have a great guitar and bass player in one it all depends on if they are into what they do.

[Asundor]

I know first hand how hard it is to find a bass player. Bass player's are out there, but the hard part is finding one that will learn all the material and will dedicate himself or herself to the band. When CYPHIN started in 2002 everything was going solid intil early 2004 and all hell broke loose. We had a certain someone trying to call all the shots in the band. It soon became his band no one else's. It soon became more of a headache than anything to keep this band together. Thats when I had to step in and do what I had to do. I had asked my current drummer If he wanted to keep this band going and go somewhere else and find some new blood to really bring out the true ability in the band. We very quickly found two excellent guitar players that I cant say enough great things about. But for the bass player situation that wasen't so easy for us neither. We spent month's bringing Bass players in to audition. Some of which diden't no there ass from a hole in the ground and some of them that were just unbelievable. But you always run into a problem such as, they live to far away. There not really into a (few) songs you do so they never really give it a shot. Or whatever the reasons maybe. It took us sometime to find the Bass player that we have now. I thanks GOD we lucked in to Rich. He was no dought the Bass player we were looking for. I'll recommend a few sites to check out to look for musicians. Look on www.pamusicians.com / www.pennswoods.net they have classified adds for musicians. Beyond that I wish everyone the best of luck.

[kara]

That is the same problem we ran into we had one bass player who joined our band started talkin' about at the begining of the show he was going to go out and play this awsome bass solo then flip everyone off and then we could all come out. We were all like man who the hell do you think you are this is our band, not long after that he really had to go. We did have an awsome bass player but unfortally he didn't have the time to play. Hopefully the guy I am going to call today will work out. Jason from Cyphin told me last night of a guy so were holding are breath and praying for the best. We are looking at this band as starting over, we have had so many problems that if we keep looking at the past we will never be able to move forward. There are so many talented people out there that just for whatever reason don't think that they could play in a band. What a shame! kara

[witchhunt]

Asundor, I can't find the ads on Pennswoods.

[witchhunt]

Moondoggy, here ya go.

RUSH IN RIO
HIDDEN FEATURES


Instructions on how to find "Anthem"

On Disk 2



On the main menu, press 2



Once you get picture for the drum solo, press menu



You're back at the main menu... Press 1



Once you get picture for YYZ, press menu



You're back at the main menu... Press 1



Once you get picture for YYZ press menu



You're back at the main menu... Press 2



Once you get picture for the drum solo press menu



You're back at the main menu and it now shows "Special Bonus: Anthem 1975."



Instructions on how to find "The By-Tor Movie"
On Disk 2

Listen for the reference by Alex during the documentary and press enter.

[grimmbass]

Hey All!

I love this thread....these are things I think about a LOT as a bassist. I'll try to keep my thoughts brief.

1. Bass player mentality: Although there are a few extroverts out there (Flea, Billy Sheehan) I think that bassists tend to be a bit more introverted and contempltive. In many bands, we are the "keystone" or "architect" that holds the other pieces together. Part rhythm, part melody, all glue. Generally, personality types who are not comfortable being "behind the scenes" won't be happy on bass. This rule is beginning to change a bit, I believe, as bass is playing a more prominent role in much of the new music.

2. Flunked-out/inadequate guitar players as bassists: I think it is probably easier for a guitarist to migrate to bass than vice versa, but guitar players don't always make the best bassists, for the reasons that have already been mentioned.

3. The "role" of bass: Bass, like any other instrument, has only the limitations imposed by its practioners. Ryan from Mudvayne is a great example of how bass can play a major role in a genre of music where it's normally ignored (low-tuned metal). This is not to say that bassists shouldn't make regular use of their key tool, which is discretion. I don't like the sound of slap bass in a George Thorougood song, for example.

4. Bass vs. rhythm guitar: There are some bands that truly make the most of two guitars AND bass (listen to Operation Mindcrime). Generally speaking though, a rhythm guitar will push the bass to being a rumble in the background. Neither approach is wrong, but playing bass in a one-guitar band (like the Grimm...) is much more fun. I LOVE filling space!

5. The bassist "shortage": Is probably due to worldwide demand and dwindling supply (I kid...). Seriously, though...this shortage has kept me steadily employed for many years! The reason for the shortage: bass is a less-understood and (sadly) less glamorous instrument. But that IS changing....10 years ago, the Musician's Friend catalog featured NO bass guitars, now it's got 10+ pages of gear. People are catching on.

Wow, my response wasn't exactly short. I agree with Bassist 25...Zappa's daughters are idiots!

Salute, fellow bottom-feeders!

Kent

p.s. Any bassists out there still prefer 4-strings over 5ers, 6ers or beyond? I know I do....

[kara]

I really agree with you man, Like I said before we only have one guitar player and that is all we want. We thought about adding a second one for a while and decided against it. We all agree in our band that is sounds much better if there is only one, ya know so you can actually here what the bassist is playing and then even have some bass leads, ( I think they sound cool).

[nighthawk]

im a rhythm guitar player thu and thru. i love the bass also. when i hear a good song i am listening to the rhythm and bass. i dont really pay much attention to what the lead is doing. if i had a choise on what instument to play it would be a bass. i just like the groove that comes along with the low end. i play guitar with my really good friend who is trying his damndest to learn the bass and play with me on some level so of course i could never switch over which is why i am playing the rhythm.

i think that a lot of people like to be up front and noticed. bass players in general are not put in the spot lite because they usually are not good enough to be allowed there. now by god if you do have a good one by all means let them take some action. people will notice if he or she is good. i have seen many bass players put down by the rest of the band just because they are playing the bass. if that bass player is capable of playing some really good lead parts then why not let them. guitar players do it on most every song. why not some music that the guitar plays the rhythm and the bass plays the lead. that would be interesting.

[bassist_25]

Kent,

I started playing five strings about six years ago. I honestly don't even consider four strings anymore when making a new bass purchase. That's personal preference of course. I don't think that four strings will ever become obselete or unfashionable (though five strings seem like they are becoming the standard for session players).

When I bought my first fiver, I was playing Blues, Classic Rock, Country, Oldies, Jazz, ect., so the B didn't get used much unless I felt like playing a deep run. Then I started playing Rock music, and the B has become indespensable. We play a lot of stuff that's down in D and C#. I can play all of that stuff without switching instruments or retuning. Also, I don't have to worry about the strings becoming "floppy" if I were to down tune. The best part that I like about it though is I can still keep all of my strings tuned in 4ths. Like most bass players, I'm use to playing an instrument that's tuned all in 4ths, and down tuning to a D for example, would create a 5th. I do a lot of scalar runs, and that serious screw me up. *LOL*

[grimmbass]

I bought my first fiver in 1989....a good ol' Westone. I alternated between tuning BEADG and EADGC (I was into doubling guitar parts in those days). I can see the point about tuning in 4ths, but honestly, once you get used to playing in a "drop d" format, it quickly becomes second nature. Much of "Resurruption" was based on playing off the low "d". Hell, Ryan Martine from Mudvayne uses the fifth technique when he drop tunes his fiver to low a.

I own a five right now that I use when needed (i.e. fill in gigs), but I still prefer the feel of a four string, tuned low if necessary. It's just easier to feed off an open d rather than having to fret it on the low b. When I think of my big heros on bass, the majority of them still regularly use four strings (Geddy, Jeff Clapper, Flea, Billy Sheehan, Tony Levin, Doug Wimbish).

No hate toward the five and six string guys...and I agree with you that fivers are rapidly becoming the standard. Still, I really don't think that most bassists who play them are really using much of the extended range. I've seen a lot of dudes playing 5s in metal bands who still drop the e to match the guitarist. And truthfully, when everybody's tuned that low, it's really hard to find definition on a low b in the mix.

But who knows....next year I may be singing the praises of the Dean 10-string!

Kent

[Griff]

Hell yes ... it took us over a year to find Paul ... I think too many people are under the misconception that an OK guitarist would be a kick-ass bass player. Bassists play bass because they're bass players, not because they weren't good enough to play guitar.

We roll with one guitar, too, and I hear ya, Jim, if we had a crappy bassist, those leads would sound awfully empty.

Bass is not a secondary piece of the puzzle; it's just as vital as every other aspect of the band ... almost important as the frontman ... lol

r:>)

I agree 100% with you Rob, a good bassist knows the chord as well as the guitarist that person has to know the notes of that chord so he/she can build the scale of notes from that and make a foundation one is as important as the other

[Griff]

Food for thought... The following is a transcript from the E! True Hollywood Story series Rock Star Daughters. This section involves an interview with Zappa's daughters Moon and Diva, and they had some interesting comments on bass players, among other people.

Moon: Each person that plays an instrument: there's a certain mentality.... It's an archetype.

Diva: Yeah, normally. What I’ve found normally doesn’t go for all of them, but the majority of keyboard players and bass players feel really neglected in the band and want more.... They kind of have attitudes and... they suck the life out of you, so you stay away. That’s why the drummers, and the singers, and guitar players are rad, ‘cause they know they’re the shit.


Thoughts, anyone?

What a bunch of shit. I've never had an inferiority complex because of the instrument I play. I often get compliments from both musicians and non-musicians alike. I'm not saying that I'm great or anything or trying to have a swollen head. I try to remain as humble as possible. I'm just stating that in my experience, I haven't found that people ignore my position in the band. And the bass players who played for Zappa weren't any slackers. His daughter should realize how much of a bad ass player Scott Thunes was. He knew that he "was the shit".

I've also never bought into the personality profiling of people by the instrument that they play, and I'm a damn psych major! Asshole musicians are asshole musicians; it doesn't matter what they play. I've met all of them in this business.

Edit: And Ron, Futureman plays the drumtar, it's Reggie that plays guitar.

I agre Paul, no complex on the insterment I play as well. as I said before there are people that play the bass and there are bassists. the ones that dont get the compliments are those that just hang out play the same 8th note drive from the bass note of the chord. the bassists, well they know the chord and what notes are in that chord and can move through the scales from that chord knowing wich notes to hit because its a minor chord or a 7th or natural and its bassists like that that stand out as well as any guitar player or any other musician in the band and when all members of the band can play on that skill it makes for a very good band

[bassist_25]

I bought my first fiver in 1989....a good ol' Westone. I alternated between tuning BEADG and EADGC (I was into doubling guitar parts in those days). I can see the point about tuning in 4ths, but honestly, once you get used to playing in a "drop d" format, it quickly becomes second nature. Much of "Resurruption" was based on playing off the low "d". Hell, Ryan Martine from Mudvayne uses the fifth technique when he drop tunes his fiver to low a.

I own a five right now that I use when needed (i.e. fill in gigs), but I still prefer the feel of a four string, tuned low if necessary. It's just easier to feed off an open d rather than having to fret it on the low b. When I think of my big heros on bass, the majority of them still regularly use four strings (Geddy, Jeff Clapper, Flea, Billy Sheehan, Tony Levin, Doug Wimbish).

No hate toward the five and six string guys...and I agree with you that fivers are rapidly becoming the standard. Still, I really don't think that most bassists who play them are really using much of the extended range. I've seen a lot of dudes playing 5s in metal bands who still drop the e to match the guitarist. And truthfully, when everybody's tuned that low, it's really hard to find definition on a low b in the mix.

But who knows....next year I may be singing the praises of the Dean 10-string!

Kent

As always Kent, some excellent points and opinions.

But I do have to disagree with you on the issue of the B's definition. I find that with some good EQing in the low-mid frequencies, you can get a B to growl nicely in a mix. (It also helps if the guitarist isn't a douche and scoops out all of the mids )

Another reason I like the B is because I can play fretted low Es rather than go with an open E if I desire. Sometimes I find that it's better to avoid open strings, because whenever you play an open string, you then have to mute it. I mute with my right hand, so it's usually not a problem. But sometimes there's the occasion where I play with a pick, so I'm then left with the problem of trying to find a way to mute the open strings.

I'm also obsessed with the economy of motion. The less positions shifts you have to do, the cleaner your playing is going to be and the less fatigue will result in your fretting hand (and less shifts of course means that you can concentrate more on vocals, stage presence, sight reading, ect.). Having the B allows me to play across the strings instead of up and down, which means less position shifts.

[lonewolf]

Yeah Paul, that B0 at 31hz can be a problem. It takes some crisp, super-low frequency subs to pull off the fundamental frequency, although like you said, you can get the harmonics to come thru.

Many subs recommend 31hz (or even higher) as the speaker protection high-pass (rolloff) frequency, making things even tougher.

[ChaosRisingRice]

You know the one thing that i did notice with people searching for bassists are drummers is. If the band has a drummer they need a bassists. And if they have a bassists they need a drummer. So many people out there but yet so hard to find them.

[bassist_25]

Yeah Paul, that B0 at 31hz can be a problem. It takes some crisp, super-low frequency subs to pull off the fundamental frequency, although like you said, you can get the harmonics to come thru.

Many subs recommend 31hz (or even higher) as the speaker protection high-pass (rolloff) frequency, making things even tougher.

Luckily, many cabinet manufactuers are now making stand-alone boxes that can handle the low B. The last ten years have seen some very exciting evolution in bass guitar technology.

The B is watt-hungry though. It sucks when I can get a clean sound out of any other spot on the neck, but them watch my clip indicators light up once I hit anything below an Eb.

[HurricaneBob]

Eb used too take alot of shit on Green Acres too come to think of it.....

[MOONDOGGY]

If you guys want low end check out Adler Basses. (http://www.adlerguitars.com/basses.html)

They are making Sub-contra basses, and it's some pretty nifty stuff. They're 4 strings are tuned low C# F# B E (most 8 string basses tuned in fourths are tuned low F# B E A D G C F, so that is lower than most extended range basses!). I had asked the owner what type of amps/cabs he reccomends to handle the lower frequencies, because I have been able to make my Eden rig 'fart out' with a low F# at times. Here's his reply:

"It all depends how you set your EQ. Mostly what you hear from lower
strings are the overtones anyway. You may consider a Basson Sound 5x10 Sub-contra cabinet or their 4x10 model. They reproduce the low end of the Sub-contra bass accurately (Jauqo (A chicago-based bassist) used one when he recorded his CD and Garry uses one live for the 11 and 12 string basses).

Jauqo's Sub-contra basses have the stock Aguilar obp-3 preamps. The 2 band sweepable EQ (half the preamp from the 12 string) really aids in getting the notes to jump out, especially when using a cabinet that is not designed to go that low.

So far nobody has been able to make Sub-contra pickups that are as
good as the Villex; I do not have private label sub-contra pickups because I have not been able to make them better than what William is able to do for me already. That being said, I think they are the first step toward getting the C#, and F# for that matter, through your Eden rig.


Mike"


Adler Basses are on to what may very well be the next big thing in bass, and he's been doing it for years.

[bassist_25]

Garry? You mean Garry Goodman?

I've spoken with Jauqo a few times, real cool cat.

A lot of guys tune their Conklin 7 strings F#, B, E, A, D, G, C and some tune them B, E, A, D, G, C, F. I think I'd go with the latter if I had one. I really wouldn't have any need for anything lower than a B unless I were comping keyboard parts, and even then I wouldn't want to search out a cab to reproduce those frequencies.

[Ron]

For memory's sake, I'd have to tune mine A, B, C, D, E, F, G